Revisiting my nagging Rocky and Bullwinkle issues...

Wordy... skip ahead to #3 if you only want new material

I'm currently dealing with three nagging problems...

1) Vertical upkicker needs to be rebuilt. No big deal, I'm expecting a VUK rebuild kit to be delivered today, and hopefully I won't run into any problems.

2) I simply cannot figure out why the Left lane kicker ("Laser Kick") locks on as soon as the machine is turned on. I've disconnected the coil to prevent it from cooking, but something here isn't right. I changed out the diode, the transistor tests ok. I've followed the wiring looking for a broken or crushed wire and come up empty handed. The playfield switch that activates the coil also tests ok. Stumped.

3) My current frustration... lighting for the pop bumpers. The pop bumpers *work* just fine. The rest of the playfield GI is working fine. None of the pop bumpers are lit. The bulbs are good. For some reason, the pop bumper lighting is treated as a flasher in the manual. I can't find a plug that's been disconnected, or anything of the sort. All other flashers are working fine. Flashers are all on two fuses, both of which are good.

fuses.jpg

#2 9 years ago

JWO

jwo825

Pinside member

I missed your original thread but have you removed the driver board and checked for cold/broken solder joints?

I recently shopped and repaired one and when I first turned it on, it would be OK and after about 20-30 seconds of play, all coils would start firing like an 80's drum solo.

Turned out to be bad soldering on the driver boars. I had to reflow about 30 joints.

Game has worked flawlessly for a few months since.

I still have the game and will look at the pop bumper lights and schematic later to see if I can help you with the lights

#3 9 years ago

DOC

drsfmd

Pinside member

Thanks.

I did pull the board to check it. I found no bad solder joints. Given what I've been told about soldering on this boards, I was hesitant to just flow the solder anyway. Here's the original thread (not terribly long) if you're interested: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/need-a-little-de-rocky-and-bullwinkle-tech-help

#4 9 years ago

DOC

drsfmd

Pinside member

Figured out the pop bumper lighting-- I'll be replacing a crispy molex connector! I never looked at the "business" end as I was plugging and unplugging, and the visible end looks fine.

Wondering if the power for my kickout lane is on this connector as well. I recall it being on J8, so I think not, but I'll consult the schematic anyway... maybe I'll get lucky.

Edit: Molex, not molecule... damn autocorrect!

#5 9 years ago

JWO

jwo825

Pinside member

The pop lighting should definitely be on a different circuit than any coils. I'm more familiar with B/W than DE, though. All I had to do was resolder a board and I never had to get much further into the troubleshooting

#6 9 years ago

JWO

jwo825

Pinside member

I stand corrected, those are on the flash lamp circuit and they receive +32V just like the coils!

#7 9 years ago

?Z?

phishrace

Pinside member

Unknown

12y 46,900 4,913

OP
Quoted from drsfmd:
2) I simply cannot figure out why the Left lane kicker ("Laser Kick") locks on as soon as the machine is turned on. I've disconnected the coil to prevent it from cooking, but something here isn't right. I changed out the diode, the transistor tests ok. I've followed the wiring looking for a broken or crushed wire and come up empty handed. The playfield switch that activates the coil also tests ok. Stumped.

As I said in the other thread, you need to properly test the transistors. Starting a new thread doesn't change this. If testing transistors isn't in your repertoire, you need to ask for help locally.

#8 9 years ago

DOC

drsfmd

Pinside member

Quoted from phishrace:
As I said in the other thread, you need to properly test the transistors. Starting a new thread doesn't change this. If testing transistors isn't in your repertoire, you need to ask for help locally.

Per my opening post:

OP
Quoted from drsfmd:
I've disconnected the coil to prevent it from cooking, but something here isn't right. I changed out the diode, the transistor tests ok.

I tested per the link here. Is there some other method you would suggest?
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=General#Testing_a_Transistor.2C_Silicon_Controlled_Rectifier_.28SCR.29_or_Field_Effect_Transistor_.28FET.29

#9 9 years ago

DOC

drsfmd

Pinside member

Anybody know the correct Molex plug type for DE machines? These are different that either the B/W or Gottlieb games I have. I found a reference to these being "Z" plugs... but I can't find anything from the usual pinball parts suppliers or from Great Plains Electronics.

#10 9 years ago

JWO

jwo825

Pinside member

http://pinballlife.com/index.php?p=catalog&parent=235&pg=1

are you talking about the IDC connectors? Like this?

You can replace them with These. Either the 41695 series or GPE value series will work.

https://greatplainselectronics.com/categories.asp?cat=37

#11 9 years ago

?Z?

phishrace

Pinside member

Unknown

12y 46,900 4,913

OP
Quoted from drsfmd:
Is there some other method you would suggest?

Yes, I posted a link on the other thread.

I'll make it easier. With the power off and your DMM on diode mode, touch one lead to the middle lug of each tip36 on the *PPB board*. Then touch the other lead to the outside lugs of the same transistor. If the meter buzzes, you have a shorted transistor. If you're not sure of your readings, test the other tip36's on the board and compare your results.

#12 9 years ago

FBX

FirebrandX

Inactive member

http://bayareaamusements.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=CN-5791-12235-10

The pop bumpers lights are NOT flashers, so you don't have to worry about that much at least. They are 555s. I did a complete LED conversion on my R&B and put rainbow faders in the pops.

Also the OP may be referring to Z connectors like this:

I bought a 6-pin one and just snapped off the extra pins I didn't need.

With regard to the kicker, you might want to make sure something else isn't crossing into the line feed (including the ground braiding). I had a strange issue one time when both flippers started acting crazy. I traced the problem to an LED that had been poorly manufactured to where a line of solder was touching the center and shorting it. People SWORE to me that it wasn't possible for a bad LED to affect the flippers like that, but as soon as I fixed the LED, the flippers worked fine after that instantly.

#13 9 years ago

FBX

FirebrandX

Inactive member

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=2887

Here's the one I bought:

They have 4 and 2 pin versions as well.

#14 9 years ago

DOC

drsfmd

Pinside member

Quoted from FirebrandX:
With regard to the kicker, you might want to make sure something else isn't crossing into the line feed (including the ground braiding). I had a strange issue one time when both flippers started acting crazy. I traced the problem to an LED that had been poorly manufactured to where a line of solder was touching the center and shorting it. People SWORE to me that it wasn't possible for a bad LED to affect the flippers like that, but as soon as I fixed the LED, the flippers worked fine after that instantly.

Pops are working, molex parts have been ordered-- hopefully those will be here in a few days. I also bought a kit to rebuild the VUK, which sometimes takes a couple of tries to get the ball up to the ramp, but in looking at that today, it seems like major surgery to install, so I may wait on that one.

I followed the kicker wires back to the loom at the rear of the backbox (ie: the length of the playfield) and I can see no damage. I didn't specifically look at the ground braid, etc. but I can do so. I'm kind of hoping that it's somehow related to the to-be-replaced molex connector... but I can't possibly be that lucky.

#15 9 years ago

FBX

FirebrandX

Inactive member

VUK rebuilds are easy. I did the Super VUK on my R&B, and the only issue that came up was the kit I got had the wrong size hole in the plunger rod. I had to get a drill bit the same size as the locking pin and enlarge the hole using that.

Also just to point out, the Aesop hole Super VUK is notorius for taking more than one try to eject the ball. So that's not really an issue with your machine. I will say that after I rebuilt mine, it does seem to work more consistently.

#16 9 years ago

DOC

drsfmd

Pinside member

Not the Aesop hole, the one that kicks up into the wireform at the top of the playfield. It's pretty clearly an easy repair if you can GET to the kickout assembly. It looks like this top one requires removal of the ramps to get to the one screw, while the others screw in from the bottom (and are still basically blind-- you'd need a rotissere to make an easy job of it).

#17 9 years ago

FBX

FirebrandX

Inactive member

I've done a full strip down of the playfield when I restored mine (without a rotisserie). The trick to the ramps is the ball diverting arm has to be removed from the linkage underneath and then slid out the top (of course being mindful of the collar that will catch on the plastics if you just try to pull it through). Once you get that arm out, the rest is a simple strip job.

#18 9 years ago

DOC

drsfmd

Pinside member

Last night I replaced the crispy molex connector at j5 on the PBB. I also happened to notice that part of the backbox GI was out (and probably has been from the start), and that's on J5. In looking at the schematic, am I to assume that they rearrange the pinout numbers for ease of drawing the schematic? It appears that there's a fuse that runs between pin 1, and pin 5 (which I think controls the part of the GI that's out).

Also, is there a test point I should be grounding to for that 6v? I assume I can probe pin 1 and see if there's power coming in, then see if I can figure out why pin 5 doesn't have power (or if it DOES have power figure out where there's a break in the wire.

Make sense?

GI.jpgPPBboard.jpgfuses.jpg

#19 9 years ago

DOC

drsfmd

Pinside member