Disclaimer: I do have an engineering background, but in electronics, my knowledge of mechanics interaction is long gone (say by about... err... 30 years).

Anyway, I'd be curious to know the 15 degrees of freedom. I only managed to find 8 or so (basically XYZ for the shaft itself, flex for the bat - which is one unless I'm mistaken, slop between the bat and the shaft - how many would that account for ? Should be one, rotational, right ?, two for the plunger, one for the "gear" converting linear movement to rotational movement, and that's about it that I could figure out)

A few other questions if you don't mind:
- What about longevity ? Some have stated that metal to metal will induce wear over time, is this really a problem ?
- Do you feel the bearings will need to be replaced, and if so how often ?

Cheers, and thanks for all the information.

Thanks for the detailed answer

I'm familiar with FEA (used that in fluid simulation ages ago, as part of my studies, as well as material physics, also ages ago). My son actually uses that technique as well to model the behaviour of a tire train in a racing car (part of his engineering school studies). Kind of relieved that this technique which was teached 30 years ago is still relevant, at least I don't feel that old anymore

It would be really cool to have a high speed capture similar to the video you posted above when using these precision bats, just to see how the ball react. Kind of wonder if you would still have such a pronounced "double bounce" effect (for lack of a better word)

What about wear over time ?

It was posted by the OP somewhere in the thread

Fascinating to see the "double hit" caused by flipper flex

Oh yeah please do ! I'm really curious to know as well what's this black dust. Maybe ask your employer nicely, you know, "in the name of science" ?

Now time for another challenge as well: if you were to design from scratch a flipper mechanism, reliable, precise, cheap, what would be your preferred option ?

Guess why there was these four exact terms in my sentence : reliable, precise, cheap, challenge

Joke aside, technology evolves, and what was considered as costly 20y ago is not costly anymore. That's certainly the case in electronics anyway. I would wonder if newer technology in materials/mechanics could not be used. But it's rather a speculation on my part, mechanics not being my area of expertise.

To those who have tested them, do you feel they are needed for the third flipper which is present on many machines? I understand that in theory they should improve precision, but at the same time they are not as much used as the main flippers

Cheers

I know I'm going to ask for the impossible, but... I have lit flippers on my Tron (and they're programmable on top of that), and boy I would miss them should I swap. Not sure if it's feasible, but could a flipper tap be made of transparent resin, with embedded 2020 ws2812 leds? Need to run a wire through the shaft though, not sure if it's hollow?

Scotty speaking in the mouse : ' computer?'

On SW, that's exactly what I have ordered.

Did it improve your Death Star ramp shot, especially backhanded from the left flipper ?

Super nice...

All that remains now to have lighted flippers is:
- Custom PCB and resin to fill the opening with leds...
- Wire hole through the shaft to connect the PCB below the playfield
- Control box

Custom PCB is easy, it's just a triangle with WS2812 (that would be my recommendation, way easier to control than regular 12V RGB LEDs), could go with 2020 LEDs if space is a concern
Resin also should be straightforward, just a cover on top of the PCB would do
Control box, if using WS2812, simple arduino type uController (ESP32 comes to mind, even ESP16), one wire for control, two for power, done

Wire hole through the shaft: that's the part which is complicated in the current design from what I can see. On other lighted flippers I have seen, the complete shaft is hollow, allowing the wire to run through it from top (where the LED PCB is) to bottom (so under the playfield). Given the adjustment screw, I'm not sure this is feasible.

Hobbit as well, although it's not that instantaneous. But triggering smaug multiball several times, and after a while you can't make up the ramp anymore unless it's a perfect shot.

My Stern spike systems (Sth and SW) do not seem to suffer as much from flipper fade even with stock flippers, so not sure if it's a valid comparison

Question: are the bushings and axis identical between the original precision flipper and the Halographic Pro (the name will catch eventually) ?

I have a few originals en route to my location (ordered in August, so before Halographic Pro were released), just wondering if I will need to swap everything or just the flipper bats themselves if I order a few of the hollow version

Especially since there's no coil strenght control on LOTR

Anxiously waiting on mine (in transit from the US). Probably going to install them in my Hobbit to be able to demonstrate them during our big local festival end of October

I see a lot of machines where it's not possible to adjust flipper strength. How those who installed it manage the additionnal transmission power in these ? Thinking of Tron in particular specifically for me, since that's where I intend to put one set.

Cheers

With regards to the need to really clamp the shaft, I found out that there seems to be a thin film of oil (?) left from machining I assume (I did not add any oil myself). It's very thin, but noticeable when you slide your finger. What I did was cleaning up the shaft with alcohol after sliding it through the bushing.

Not sure if it's related, as I really tightened the clamp afterward as well

Forgive my ignorance, but what's ghetto ??

OK, did not know that expression, one learns every day.

Did you use some kind of polishing solution ?

Regards

Errr... sorry ?? Not sure I understand your comment. If you think I was implying to be offended, well, look at my profile, and realize that not everyone is a native english speaker.

Not sure I understand, are you using non regular size in your Tron?

Well not to derail this thread, but I'm extremely pissed at JJP design choices. This is a nightmare to debug, repair (not only mechanics, but wiring, electronics, etc). I've had load of issues on my hobbit, it's one after the next, and some are completely bonkers (why oh why use high density connectors with 26AWG wires for lighting ?)

"getting everything working" is the key sentence

Yes I did enjoy it while it was working

But we derailed the thread. I'll wait on the updated clamps for JJP before installing precision flippers in my Hobbit and DialedIn

What are your strength settings on GZ? I'm having a hard time adjusting the flipper bat to manage the scoop shot. Part of it is angle of the bat, other seems to be the strength, I get rejects

Since you have a GZ, can you share your strength setting and bat adjustment ? I could not yet figure out a good combination

Suggestion to DiabloRush and 1956PINHEAD , might be interesting to create a repository hosting spreadsheet listing coils replacement for older games where you can't control flipper power.

Chuckwurt link is very useful in that respect, but one has to dig up the original game coil reference, check it's value, choose a higher value resistance (which raise the question... by how much do you need to increase), so it's a little bit of a trial and error. I'm sure that users that experiment with older games would find it useful if there was a repository hosting the information on tested coils by other users.

Although it might be overkill, if everyone is only installing them in Spike and JJP games anyway

For reference, I installed the precision flippers on a very recent GZ build, and the clamps were super super tight, to the point that I could not slide the shaft in the clamp. I had to use a trick to pry open the clamp (essentially reversing the clamping screw and sliding a piece of metal so that when screwing in the screw would push on the metal and open slightly the clamp). This happened on all three flippers on GZ, so I can only assume their manufacturing slightly changed the clamps

Maybe add a picture field to the database?

I can't say if my skill improved or if the precision flippers really play a role, but boy my scores on GZ have improved tremendously now that I have tuned the angle correctly. It's a pleasure to be able to chain loops and ramps...

I see you're un France, reach out to me I bought a few sets a few sets a few months ago, and one of them was installed In a Williams/Bally by another French pinsider

I lost a little bit track with regards to the new clamp system. Are those available for JJP/WPC/Chicago Gaming ?

Especially for JJP, I've read that they use really crap material for the clamps

Thanks

Back on JJP and the need for new clamps

I have a Hobbit, and it turns out I have some spare JJP/WPC/CG bushing, as when I ordered a few months ago, I wanted to keep my options open to be able to swap them to different games. Since then I decided that I would add them to many of my games Hence the question: the original precision flipper shaft which is coupled to JJP bushing is not compatible with the newer clamp system obviously

So pondering whether I really need these new clamps, I understand that JJP clamp quality is crap, but did it go back to the Hobbit as well ?

Cheers

So any feedback on Hobbit clamp quality?

On my SW Premium, I have to use the removal tool to adjust the silver version (non anodized). On GZ, I don't need to use the tool (and they are tight, I've been playing quite a lot, they did not move at all during gameplay even after a few adjustments)

I don't think the wrapping will distribute air at all, there's no air transfer between the heatsink fin and the inside of the body. This type of heatsink is designed for a complete assembly between the part to be cooled and the heatsink, to maximize heat transfer (which happens through the metal). I'd be curious to know John finding with those

oh yeah !! thermal camera imaging, now there's an idea. Nothing like technical measurements (oscilloscope shots, thermal data) to get engineers excited

OK OK, got carried away

Interestingly enough, I find the difference in Hobbit VERY noticeable (using the keyed shaft and clamp), not to mention that I don't get any flipper fade (had to adjust power down otherwise the ball was flying on the right wireform ramp). Second game, Grand Champion score (OK, it's not very high compared to other players, but it was higher for me). I could align loops and ramps far more easily.

I feel there's less of a perceived difference on my GZ and SW, at least at my skill level. It "feels" better, but it's not as noticeable as on Hobbit.

I have not yet installed it in older Stern machines or WPC for comparison, a friend did and he finds it very useful in WPC, but need to change coil to accomodate for higher power transfer.

Cheers

Just FYI: I had a long game of Hobbit this week end (Halo installed), and I did get some flipper fade toward the end of the game. Power setting are slightly down to accomodate for the higher transmission power of the Halos, but seems it's not sufficient to prevent heating.

Oh well, I was hoping to avoid putting fansink on the coils, looks like I have to do it after all.

Fantastic news ! Avranche is the exclusive importer for Stern in France, so they have a nice network of resellers

And by the way, not related to Pinball, but their office is literally within a few miles of this extremely famous sightseeing place in France...
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