(Topic ID: 318895)

Review – Precision Pinball Products CNC Flipper System

By DiabloRush

1 year ago


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    There are 2,941 posts in this topic. You are on page 52 of 59.
    #2552 7 months ago
    Quoted from PiNiK:

    Hi all
    I am new to owning pins, but have played many over the years. With regards to upgrading the flippers, while I see the advantages for home use, It raises a question for me. How much does this upgrade then take away from playing a standard pin without the flipper upgrade?

    All other factors being equal, there will be a slight difference but nothing extreme. That difference will primarily be in power given the tighter tolerances. At least that is my understanding based on observations posted here and what feels like to be the case in my own use of the Halo flippers. I don't feel that it takes away anything at all. Plus, there are so many other variables that impact game play from one machine to the next. I wouldn't be concerned about this mod being the one factor that is the most noticeable.

    #2553 7 months ago
    Quoted from mostater:

    All other factors being equal, there will be a slight difference but nothing extreme. That difference will primarily be in power given the tighter tolerances. At least that is my understanding based on observations posted here and what feels like to be the case in my own use of the Halo flippers. I don't feel that it takes away anything at all. Plus, there are so many other variables that impact game play from one machine to the next. I wouldn't be concerned about this mod being the one factor that is the most noticeable.

    Thank you, it seems this is a worthwhile upgrade.

    #2555 7 months ago
    Quoted from PiNiK:

    Thank you MayDave that was exactly what I was asking. If you get used to something that has been upgraded and improved it may dull the experience of machines without that upgrade there after.

    I have 7 machines with 2 of them currently having Halos. Being that the Halos are installed on newer Stern machines (Godzilla & Deadpool), I turn down the flipper power to mimic the original flipper power.

    With the settings like that, in my case, I am able to jump from machine to machine and not have a huge difference between the Precision's and Standard flippers in power or feel to adjust to. There is some minor adjustment just as you would expect between any machines.

    #2556 7 months ago
    Quoted from awesome1:

    I have 7 machines with 2 of them currently having Halos. Being that the Halos are installed on newer Stern machines (Godzilla & Deadpool), I turn down the flipper power to mimic the original flipper power.
    With the settings like that, in my case, I am able to jump from machine to machine and not have a huge difference between the Precision's and Standard flippers in power or feel to adjust to. There is some minor adjustment just as you would expect between any machines.

    This is perfect. Thank you. I have an iron maiden on order and I was looking to install these flippers. Your response was super helpful. Thanks

    #2557 7 months ago
    Quoted from fnosm:

    I am one of the folks that added Precision Flippers to TS4. The only issue to me is the current options for the short bat.
    The new version that John will is making (1-1/8" long) should be the right size for the TS4 short bat. So I recommend you wait for that.
    As to the question of does the game need it? I'd say no games 'need' it. All games were designed to be played with the plastic bats that they ship with. But you will notice a positive difference by using these flippers. How big of a difference will depend a lot on the age/condition of the game, game setup and settings, and skill level of the pinhead doing the flipping. But, most games and most players will notice the enhanced accuracy, and better look and feel of the PPP flippers.

    1956PINHEAD : Are you confirming that the short bat you have sent to Avranches Automatic are not the new one (1-1/8" long) yet ? This would mean that I only have to buy them the standard length for the moment. They also propose a "Kit mounting axis flipper", do I need it? Thanks in advance

    #2558 7 months ago

    Any update if white halos will be made? I love the look of white bats on FF

    #2559 7 months ago

    I am getting so tired of flipper fade.

    Really tired.

    I play a lot of solo games- nothing better than playing for several hours exploring code and shots. After 30 minutes or less, some shots just don’t work any more.

    E.G. : Godzilla right ramp- after 20 minutes deadly half ramp shots become the norm.
    CCr: center ramp shot
    James Bond cornerstone: left orbit
    AIQ: Capt Marvel ramp
    BKSOR: Center ramp
    UM: Center ramp.
    GNR: all shots. (Flipper fans did help a lot)

    These are all important shots for game progression. Yeah I have to change my strategy for shot making, but sometimes I am totally stuck because the flipper will not make the shot.

    Yes, it may be hard to believe, but I have changed the table pitch, I have tried new flipper rubbers, I have adjusted the flippers, have installed fans (definitely do help),etc, etc.

    So 1/2 of the above games now have precision flippers. Those that do not will get them soon.

    Nuff said.

    #2560 7 months ago
    Quoted from PiNiK:

    Hi all
    I am new to owning pins, but have played many over the years. With regards to upgrading the flippers, while I see the advantages for home use, It raises a question for me. How much does this upgrade then take away from playing a standard pin without the flipper upgrade?

    When you use the precision flippers it increases your accuracy on that machine. If you are playing actively and analyzing your shots then you will become more accurate with your timing - it is much more consistently repeatable. When you go play that game on location your shots will be more accurate than before. It will feel different but because your brain knows where the shot should be you will have a higher likelihood of success. You will still be dealing with that 2-3% slop from the plastic bushing but because you will be hitting the shot at the most opportune moment you will have more success.

    TLDR - my score on Godzilla went up on average about 20-25% after practicing with precision flippers at home.

    #2561 7 months ago
    Quoted from Duster72:

    When you use the precision flippers it increases your accuracy on that machine. If you are playing actively and analyzing your shots then you will become more accurate with your timing - it is much more consistently repeatable. When you go play that game on location your shots will be more accurate than before. It will feel different but because your brain knows where the shot should be you will have a higher likelihood of success. You will still be dealing with that 2-3% slop from the plastic bushing but because you will be hitting the shot at the most opportune moment you will have more success.
    TLDR - my score on Godzilla went up on average about 20-25% after practicing with precision flippers at home.

    Great to know that it will help with overall game play too and improve general skill level. This was very informative. I appreciate the response

    #2562 7 months ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Precision milled aluminum is nice, but metal-on-metal movement and the need for grease is a big red flag to me and potential point of failure. Metal-on-metal movement is pretty much going to be a no-go long-term since they will end up grinding together, especially with the frequency of movement with these particular parts. Plus all the fine dust that will eventually gum up the joint. There's a reason why the only place where grease is used is in a sealed gearbox.
    I would be interested to see what the mech looks like after at least 10,000 plays.

    I agree with Superman. I'd also add that IMO as an aero engineer myself, there seems to be far more variability just in the flipper button contact than what there is for a standard early-SS-era flipper assembly. And in any case, a new fiberboard link would take care of any problems in misalignment.

    That said, I am open-minded, but skeptically. What needs to be done is an analysis of this with a slow-action camera that could prove that this system has a noticeably smaller spray (i.e., width of the standard deviation) compared to a new assembly using conventional parts - and no comparing to an old assembly would not suffice, and put it on YouTube. Oh, and don't cheat on the data.

    #2563 7 months ago

    Or you could just accept the overwhelming anecdotal evidence.

    #2564 7 months ago
    Quoted from GranpaDave:

    I am getting so tired of flipper fade.
    Really tired.
    I play a lot of solo games- nothing better than playing for several hours exploring code and shots. After 30 minutes or less, some shots just don’t work any more.
    E.G. : Godzilla right ramp- after 20 minutes deadly half ramp shots become the norm.
    CCr: center ramp shot
    James Bond cornerstone: left orbit
    AIQ: Capt Marvel ramp
    BKSOR: Center ramp
    UM: Center ramp.
    GNR: all shots. (Flipper fans did help a lot)
    These are all important shots for game progression. Yeah I have to change my strategy for shot making, but sometimes I am totally stuck because the flipper will not make the shot.
    Yes, it may be hard to believe, but I have changed the table pitch, I have tried new flipper rubbers, I have adjusted the flippers, have installed fans (definitely do help),etc, etc.
    So 1/2 of the above games now have precision flippers. Those that do not will get them soon.
    Nuff said.

    This is a valid argument that I had also not considered. Thanks for pointing this out

    #2565 7 months ago

    Hi all, I'm just back off of travel and will respond to some of the questions posted the past couple days. Thanks to all who have been posting your comments and feedback to bring some insight into the benefits of this modern day flipper system.

    As a side note the system does not require any grease as noted by ForceFlow, that posting is way obsolete in terms of the system configuration today.

    #2566 7 months ago

    The improvements in accuracy with this system is no longer a matter of conjecture or opinion. It’s pretty much established fact, as attested by the hundreds of posts here from dozens of owners that have installed this system. We spent considerable time discussing this over a year ago, and I’m pretty confident in saying that the claims made regarding Precision Flip were proven correct in application.

    -5
    #2567 7 months ago
    Quoted from DiabloRush:

    The improvements in accuracy with this system is no longer a matter of conjecture or opinion. It’s pretty much established fact, as attested by the hundreds of posts here from dozens of owners that have installed this system.

    Pretty much established fact? If you believe in your products that strongly, I suggest you solicit IFPA top 500 ranked players to try your products and give unpaid opinions. I'm not seeing a lot of world class players in this thread. Lots of great players post regularly on the forum linked below.

    http://tiltforums.com/

    #2568 7 months ago
    Quoted from phishrace:

    Pretty much established fact? If you believe in your products that strongly, I suggest you solicit IFPA top 500 ranked players to try your products and give unpaid opinions. I'm not seeing a lot of world class players in this thread. Lots of great players post regularly on the forum linked below.
    http://tiltforums.com/

    Established by the overwhelming support of people purchasing. I'd wager anyone who tries, will put on additional pins, I know I have.

    #2569 7 months ago

    phishrace Thanks for your post. As the designer/manufacturer of this system I will state for the record many top players have purhcased and installed this system. I have made it a point to keep the names in confidence so as not to bring focus upon them, nor have I requested they post in this or any forum pages to promote it.

    You should give the system a try!

    #2570 7 months ago
    Quoted from phishrace:

    Pretty much established fact? If you believe in your products that strongly, I suggest you solicit IFPA top 500 ranked players to try your products and give unpaid opinions. I'm not seeing a lot of world class players in this thread. Lots of great players post regularly on the forum linked below.
    http://tiltforums.com/

    They are not even DiabloRush 's products.

    There will be plenty of top players with opinions very soon as these flippers find their way into more and more competitions.

    No one here has anything to prove, especially to you.

    Those of us who have tried them are very aware of the differences.

    #2571 7 months ago

    Erwan I beleive that is a typo in that the new mini flippers I have coming available in about two weeks are 2-1/8" long, not 1-1/8". Avranches does not carry that mini flipper at present. So yes, you would order flippers of standard length for the game you wish to install in. They may carry the mini flippers at some point in the future.

    I also think you are referring to the keyed shaft/clamp system. They have them in stock for Stern Games at present, but not for the other games. Again, I believe they will carry the keyed shaft/clamps for the other game types in the near future. I do recommend the keyed shaft/clamps for JJP, CGC, Spooky, Bally, Dutch, and PBros as they all use the sheet metal folded type clamps which have proven to be hit and miss in terms of applying suffucient clamping force. Reach out to me via PM if you need more assistance, happy to help you.

    John

    #2572 7 months ago

    swampwiz Thanks for posting and sharing your thoughts. Since your an Aero Engineer I'm sure you have a good understanding of materials and tolerances. In this application we are talking about pure mechanical components and how they interact with each other.

    The best visual example of the differences between the two systems is to grab a plastic flipper and give it a twist, you'll be amazed at just how wonky it is. Then insert the flipper shaft through a new unused bushing and note all the play and slop between the shaft and bushing. If you read through these pages you'll find some examples of photos and comments (including measurements) that show the differences.

    You can also check out this video, while it might not be to the level your suggesting, it does tell a story.

    Feel free to reach out to me if you would like some additional details about the differences, I'm happy to share.

    #2573 7 months ago
    Quoted from 1956PINHEAD:

    As the designer/manufacturer of this system I will state for the record many top players have purhcased and installed this system. I have made it a point to keep the names in confidence so as not to bring focus upon them, nor have I requested they post in this or any forum pages to promote it.

    I'm not sure why you would protect their identity. It's not cheating. You seem to be promoting this product as if it improves accuracy. 'Precision' Seems like having a top player endorse it would be good for your product.

    Quoted from 1956PINHEAD:

    You should give the system a try!

    I have. On a HEP restored AFM in league no less. I noticed no difference and certainly no improvement in accuracy. I don't compete much these days, but I've previously been ranked inside the top 150.

    I should mention that your kit was installed on the AFM post-restoration. Didn't come that way.

    #2574 7 months ago

    Well, I did play them on his AIQ at TPF this year, and I was impressed. The flippers were strong, solid and dependable. It was hard to quantify exactly what was better, but they certainly WERE better. It felt like I was hitting every shot with ease.

    And (as though it matters), I have previously been ranked inside the top 50 - though that was a LONG time ago.

    On a side note, what's the story with the flipper cooling system that you were working on? Is it going to become available at some point?

    Also, are Precision Flippers available for older Bally games (i.e. Eight Ball Deluxe)?

    #2575 7 months ago

    Hope you had a good break John. I'm also interested in what you have coming up next and would be happy to beta test or be an early adopter.

    #2576 7 months ago
    Quoted from phishrace:

    I'm not sure why you would protect their identity. It's not cheating.

    Because it's a private transaction and nobody's business except the customer and the seller?

    I'd think twice about purchasing anything anywhere where they're going to announce that I bought something from them.

    #2577 7 months ago

    phishrace Thanks for responding back. This product does improve accuracy and consistency while also helping to drastically reduce flipper fade. As to your personal take away from playing them on one just one game, I'd suggest you try them on a game with steep ramps and narrow shooting lanes, that's where you'll really notice the differences the most.

    mbeardsley Thanks for joining in on the discussion, I recall talking with you at TPF. I have a few of the flipper coil heat sink/fan combos out in the wild going through long term durability testing. The one's installed on my machines are are also part of the ongoing testing. I want to cycle them for a full year before putting them out there, so perhaps TPF next year.

    My flipper system will work on all games that use a 1/4" flipper shaft/bushing combo.

    #2578 7 months ago

    Zambonilli Yes took a couple days of much needed R&R. I appreciate your offer and will certainly keep you in mind for some product testing in the future.

    Thanks again to all who have been posting on these recent topics. As always feel free to contact me via PM if you have any specific requests.

    #2579 7 months ago

    Mattyk At present I don't have any plans to make white flippers in either style as I didn't receive much of a response from the community to make them. I may at some point decide to make a few, if I do I'll certainly let you know.

    #2580 7 months ago
    Quoted from phishrace:

    I'm not sure why you would protect their identity. It's not cheating. You seem to be promoting this product as if it improves accuracy. 'Precision' Seems like having a top player endorse it would be good for your product.

    I have. On a HEP restored AFM in league no less. I noticed no difference and certainly no improvement in accuracy. I don't compete much these days, but I've previously been ranked inside the top 150.
    I should mention that your kit was installed on the AFM post-restoration. Didn't come that way.

    Precision comes from the skill of the shooter. Maybe it’s placebo effect. I feel that my shots are more consistent and repeatable. Like they take more variables out of the equation. I’m no pro. I will have these on all my games.

    #2581 7 months ago
    Quoted from phishrace:

    Pretty much established fact? If you believe in your products that strongly, I suggest you solicit IFPA top 500 ranked players to try your products and give unpaid opinions. I'm not seeing a lot of world class players in this thread. Lots of great players post regularly on the forum linked below.
    http://tiltforums.com/

    I don’t see a lot of world class players posting on pinside at all.

    #2582 7 months ago
    Quoted from phishrace:

    I'm not sure why you would protect their identity. It's not cheating. You seem to be promoting this product as if it improves accuracy. 'Precision' Seems like having a top player endorse it would be good for your product.

    Quoted from GreenMachine19:

    Precision comes from the skill of the shooter.

    I often play a LOT of pinball. I’m not a “Pro”, but do have the top 11 high scores on AIQ Premium for Pinside for whatever that’s worth … that machine has “standard factory” flippers. I have a smattering of other scores on Pinside for the other games I own as well. I live in a more rural area and don't have local tournament opportunities.

    I have Precision Halo flippers and bushings on my Godzilla Premium and Deadpool Pro. I like them!

    To me, the biggest difference is the potential power of the flipper, so on games like any JJP or other “weak” flipper games, I think they would really make a huge improvement in gameplay and player satisfaction.

    On my Stern machines, I turn the power down to try to mimic the factory flipper power.

    Do the Precision Flippers allow me personally to play “Better”? Honestly, probably not, but in my case, it is hard to quantify. For others with a different pinball skillset? Possibly.

    Regardless of if they allow you to play better or not, I think they look COOL!

    In that regard, the Precision flippers (Halo or regular) are actually one of the more economical mods you can make to your pinball machine.

    #2583 7 months ago

    Sound cool too.

    -8
    #2584 7 months ago
    Quoted from slochar:

    Because it's a private transaction and nobody's business except the customer and the seller?

    I'm not suggesting a transaction. He should donate his kits to world class players, then ask for their opinions. Imagine how good sales would be if Escher Lefkoff or Raymond Davidson endorsed his products without getting paid for the endorsement.

    Quoted from 1956PINHEAD:

    This product does improve accuracy and consistency while also helping to drastically reduce flipper fade.

    Wow, you're claiming it improves accuracy and drastically reduces flipper fade? How on earth would new flipper hardware, without replacing coils, reduce flipper fade? Improper coil choice and software settings affect flipper fade. Not the rest of the hardware. Much was written about the flipper fade on LOTR 20 years ago. They fixed it and it hasn't been a significant issue since.

    #2585 7 months ago


    Quoted from phishrace:I'm not suggesting a transaction. He should donate his kits to world class players, then ask for their opinions. Imagine how good sales would be if Escher Lefkoff or Raymond Davidson endorsed his products without getting paid for the endorsement.

    Wow, you're claiming it improves accuracy and drastically reduces flipper fade? How on earth would new flipper hardware, without replacing coils, reduce flipper fade? Improper coil choice and software settings affect flipper fade. Not the rest of the hardware. Much was written about the flipper fade on LOTR 20 years ago. They fixed it and it hasn't been a significant issue since.

    Assuming John want's any more sales from his part time gig, how are they not getting paid for an endorsement if they are getting product for free?

    And you say that a lighter load on the mechanics won't affect the power used or the heat generated from said power use?

    Put 4 fat people in your car and see if it uses any more fuel than a solo trip....

    ForFucksSakePunkin

    #2586 7 months ago
    Quoted from phishrace:

    Wow, you're claiming it improves accuracy and drastically reduces flipper fade? How on earth would new flipper hardware, without replacing coils, reduce flipper fade? Improper coil choice and software settings affect flipper fade. Not the rest of the hardware. Much was written about the flipper fade on LOTR 20 years ago. They fixed it and it hasn't been a significant issue since.

    I have a Rush and Foo Fighters that beg to differ with you on flipper fade…

    #2587 7 months ago

    The reason John's system reduces fade is his system has considerably less wasted motion. One consequence of this is a need to reduce flipper power to achieve results similar to stock. Reducing power lowers the duty cycle on the coil, which in turn, reduces heat. Hence, less (or no) flipper fade.*

    The days of conjectures about this system based on opinion rather than actual use are well behind us. It's now been installed in thousands of games, including those from hundreds of members here. All you need to do is ask for the results from the many folks that have this system. They can attest to efficacy of these flippers, including increases in precision and reduced operating temperatures.

    ----
    *The reduction in back-EMF in the coil due to less resistance to motion is also important. This may even be a larger contributor to heat reduction than lowering the power.

    #2588 7 months ago
    Quoted from phishrace:

    How on earth would new flipper hardware, without replacing coils, reduce flipper fade?

    Efficiency

    #2590 7 months ago

    We need a reality show to film some of these commenters when they go shopping. Would love to see the six week process they use to pick out milk and eggs. I'm as frugal, cynical and analytical as they come but John has gone above and beyond to prove his system's value.

    Anecdotally, I've added the precision pinball system to AIQ premium and was able to hit the Marvel ramp consistently after a half hour of non-stop play. I probably was able to get about 15 minutes of consistent Marvel ramps before the precision pinball system. There's probably about a dozen more anecdotal posts in this thread with similar results on various games as well as theories as to why. I'd love to see a study similar to what pinmonk has done on his cooler system but that exercise feels quite academic at this point.

    #2591 7 months ago

    Well… some people follow the known principles and apply it to a situation. Others just want to see a tiktok…

    Would it blow your mind to be told that just following a temperature graph isn’t really a measurement of fade?

    But anyways… the designer of the mod has done plenty of testing (even in the methods pinside believes in) that show an appreciable reduction in coil heating vs stock flippers. Believe it… or not!

    #2592 7 months ago

    Chubby precisions installed in a Haggis Fathom. They feel smooth as butter as you would expect! I dialed the power down to the minimum and I'm able to make all the shots.

    Thank you 1956PINHEAD for letting me experiment with the prototypes. They are every bit as awesome as I expected them to be!!!

    IMG_1538 (resized).jpegIMG_1538 (resized).jpeg

    #2593 7 months ago

    So I just installed my first set of solids on my Stern JP. I like the feel with Titan Low bounce.

    I've read every post in this thread. I notice there is very little to no recent discussion about flipper return springs.

    I assume on modern Sterns there is no need to adjust the springs with either solids or Halos? Or is it still desirable on some games?

    I don't have any flutter on my JP but it's hard to judge if the 'snap back' after button release is identical to stock.

    #2594 7 months ago

    AMartin56 DiabloRush had done some in depth testing with various springs and I think his take away was that the stock springs in Stern games seemed to be OK. I think it had more to do with the orientation of the flipper mechanism.

    Maybe he'll summarize again since it's been some time back since he made a final decision on that. Plus I think he's done some other tests with Bally Machines too.

    #2595 7 months ago
    Quoted from Damonator:

    Chubby precisions installed in a Haggis Fathom. They feel smooth as butter as you would expect! I dialed the power down to the minimum and I'm able to make all the shots.
    Thank you 1956PINHEAD for letting me experiment with the prototypes. They are every bit as awesome as I expected them to be!!!
    [quoted image]

    But were you gifted them?

    #2596 7 months ago

    Capcom is possible but not easy as the bushings have to be dremeled in order to fit (along with other tweaks). But oh man - these feel so much better than stock!

    IMG_1543 (resized).jpegIMG_1543 (resized).jpeg

    IMG_1541 (resized).jpegIMG_1541 (resized).jpeg

    IMG_1525 (resized).jpegIMG_1525 (resized).jpeg

    #2597 7 months ago
    Quoted from 1956PINHEAD:

    AMartin56 DiabloRush had done some in depth testing with various springs and I think his take away was that the stock springs in Stern games seemed to be OK.

    We did a bit of spring testing when the system was released. The summary is this: bounceback isn't really an issue on most games. If you do have a small amount of this on your game and (likely a result of the flipper mech orientation) you can fix it by installing a stiffer return spring. I've done about 15 games with Precision Flip, and only saw noticeable bounce back on 1 or 2 titles (Godzilla and one other if I remember). Wasn't a big deal at all, and a stiffer spring was an easy fix. Even this fix was me being overly picky. Honestly, I probably wouldn't worry about it today.

    I'll also mention, I saw this small amount of bounceback on the v1 version of the bushings before John started using oilite bronze inserts. Haven't really noticed anything with the newer bushings. Those early v1 bushings are an ancient relic now. Anyone purchasing this system since last summer has the better verison with bronze inserts.

    #2598 7 months ago

    So I have Precision Flipper solids on three of my four games now. All Stern's...JP, STh and DP. When I get around to it I'll install them on my GZ. All games are using Titan Low Bounce rubber.

    So far so good. I really like them. The most dramatic improvement is on JP. They really make that game a lot more fun at my skill level. Next I would say Stranger Things. I don't necessarily feel the accuracy improvements as much as on JP but it just feels really zen to play with this combo. Not sure how to describe it. The jury is still out on DP. It has had the least change in feel but I really enjoy the ability to easily adjust the flippers from above the playfield.

    My first game had round 'bat stems' and the other two have the improved D shape. Both are certainly fine but the D stem is really nice. No slippage at all.

    Would definitely do it all again and I'm looking forward to finally getting GZ switched over as well.

    #2599 7 months ago
    Quoted from AMartin56:

    So I have Precision Flipper solids on three of my four games now. All Stern's...JP, STh and DP. When I get around to it I'll install them on my GZ. All games are using Titan Low Bounce rubber.
    So far so good. I really like them. The most dramatic improvement is on JP. They really make that game a lot more fun at my skill level. Next I would say Stranger Things. I don't necessarily feel the accuracy improvements as much as on JP but it just feels really zen to play with this combo. Not sure how to describe it. The jury is still out on DP. It has had the least change in feel but I really enjoy the ability to easily adjust the flippers from above the playfield.
    My first game had round 'bat stems' and the other two have the improved D shape. Both are certainly fine but the D stem is really nice. No slippage at all.
    Would definitely do it all again and I'm looking forward to finally getting GZ switched over as well.

    Graet post.

    Pro tip if you didn't know it, but the designer said that DP was designed to have the flippers with a slight 'droop'.

    This makes the important shots on the bottom 1/3rd of the playfield easier, at the expense of the ramps and scoop. You'll get used to the position though and i prefer it on games like Tron and TWD where the standups are important.

    To do the minor adjustments without precisions is a pain.

    #2600 7 months ago
    Quoted from AMartin56:

    So I have Precision Flipper solids on three of my four games now. All Stern's...JP, STh and DP. When I get around to it I'll install them on my GZ. All games are using Titan Low Bounce rubber.
    So far so good. I really like them. The most dramatic improvement is on JP. They really make that game a lot more fun at my skill level. Next I would say Stranger Things. I don't necessarily feel the accuracy improvements as much as on JP but it just feels really zen to play with this combo. Not sure how to describe it. The jury is still out on DP. It has had the least change in feel but I really enjoy the ability to easily adjust the flippers from above the playfield.
    My first game had round 'bat stems' and the other two have the improved D shape. Both are certainly fine but the D stem is really nice. No slippage at all.
    Would definitely do it all again and I'm looking forward to finally getting GZ switched over as well.

    Good to hear, as jp arrives next week. Owned it at release and it kicked my azz! At my age, I need every advantage I can get

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