(Topic ID: 318895)

Review – Precision Pinball Products CNC Flipper System

By DiabloRush

1 year ago


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    #51 1 year ago

    Installed on the JJP Hobbit. Note that you use a different bushing for JJP/Williams flipper mechs. PPP has both available; be sure to spec JJP. Works beautiful here. No flipper bounce at all. None. Stock springs work great.

    BTW, Hobbit is a seriously underrated game. Fantastic layout, code, and assets. As close to an RPG as we have in pinball. Really, really fun game.

    IMG_2062 (resized).JPGIMG_2062 (resized).JPGIMG_2065 (resized).JPGIMG_2065 (resized).JPGIMG_2068 (resized).JPGIMG_2068 (resized).JPG

    #52 1 year ago
    Quoted from DiabloRush:

    Installed on the JJP Hobbit. Note that you use a different bushing for JJP/Williams flipper mechs. PPP has both available; be sure to spec JJP. Works beautiful here. No flipper bounce at all. None. Stock springs work great.
    BTW, Hobbit is a seriously underrated game. Fantastic layout, code, and assets. As close to an RPG as we have in pinball. Really, really fun game.
    [quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

    I'm curious, do you find that the JJP flippers feel vastly different and/or similar to a Stern game, or do they still feel a little softer and not as snappy?

    #53 1 year ago

    JJP flippers are quite different from Stern. They're much closer - basically the same - as the flippers on the 90s WPC95 games. Yes, they're softer and have a more subtle feel. I actually prefer the WPC95 flipper feel; I always found the Stern setups a bit too snappy. I've gotten used to Stern now, of course.

    Back in the lates 80s/90s, the Williams flippers were far-and-away the best. The Data East, Gottlieb, and yes, Stern were all pretty crude in comparision. I just got used to those and still like them. A feature in the JJP titles, IMHO.

    #54 1 year ago

    Iron Maiden. As with the other games, a substantial improvement. I can hit the left ramp through the bumpers much more easily on this system than I could on the stock flippers. The orb is way easier as well from either flipper. No flipper rebound, stock springs. John is making a batch of shorty flippers, and I've got one (in red) on order for this table.
    IMG_2071 (resized).JPGIMG_2071 (resized).JPGIMG_2073 (resized).JPGIMG_2073 (resized).JPG

    -10
    #55 1 year ago

    Sorry. Gonna call bullsh1t on these reviews and on this product.
    I got mine in today; and I don't have to even install it to realize this product is not "precision".
    Sure; they are precision CNCed. But that's where the precision ends.

    These are nothing more than Aluminum Flipper bats that have been on the market before.
    There nothing special about this kit. No extra parts - nothing which makes them more accurate.
    https://www.pinballnews.com/site/2018/03/07/adpin-flippers-2/

    You get a top bat, A stainless steel "shaft", a #10-32 stainless steel screw to secure the bat to the shaft, and a reverse clamp to remove the bat from the shaft in the future.

    You don't replace anything but the bats and shafts; so no way can this be a more precise pinball experience. The "triangular" shaft top is knurled so it "bites" against the aluminum flipper bat. The shaft was done (I'm guessing) with stainless steel so it would actually bite into the aluminum. This is why you have to have a reverse clamping system to remove the bat in the future. I imagine eventually; this knurling will deform the aluminum so don't expect to get many install/reinstall cycles.

    They are pretty and look cool; but seriously - nothing here screams precision or anything more than a standard bat. IMHO: certainly NOT worth 65/set of two.

    Edit: I did NOT order the aluminum bushing as I'm a firm believer if it ain't broke; don't fix it. Nothing wrong with the plastic bushings... and I doubt metal bushings really provide a justified benefit to the player when combined with the risk of a gummy situation when the lubed metal on metal action attracts dust from the rest of the machine.

    My advise- they look cool. If you like the look of the product; then by all means enjoy it.
    But don't buy this "system" for the marketing wank that is clearly part of their store.

    #56 1 year ago

    You didn't order the bushings? It's the combination of shaft and bushing which gives the no-slop performance. I would only say that my review is perfectly clear that it requires all components in order to enjoy the full benefit of the precision of this system.

    You can't evaluate the lack of slop in this system without the bushings. I gently suggest you purchase the proper, complete parts and reassess. The system is most certainly low slop and high tolerance (eg, precise). Take a look at the link I posted earlier. Joel demonstrates this lack of slop between a stock and PPP system.

    #57 1 year ago
    Quoted from DiabloRush:

    You didn't order the bushings?

    I just ordered a set, the "Precision Three Flipper Kit"
    I assume as ordered as a "kit" it will come with the bushings?
    I ask because the "parts included" list does not appear anywhere (that I could find)

    Excited to try these on JP

    EDIT:
    Found the bushings and they appear as a "separately ordered" item and now show out of stock
    Hopefully, the bushings are included in the "kit" as the total improved functionality demands their use
    If not, I'll order them when back in stock

    #58 1 year ago

    The bushings are not included in the kit. Those do have to be ordered separately.

    #59 1 year ago

    Perhaps the following is a bit more quantitative. Runout/slop measurements on PPP vs. the stock Stern parts. By my measurement, the runout on the Stern parts is ~14 mils at the shaft end. The PPP system measures ~2.5 mils at the same position.

    FYI.

    #60 1 year ago

    I prefer my flippers as I do my women: sloppy.

    #61 1 year ago

    As I stated, bushings can't and won't provide"precision"... At least not in the way you describe.

    Also, what's with the down votes?
    A legit, honest review gets a down vote?

    10
    #62 1 year ago
    Quoted from Zitt:

    As I stated, bushings can't and won't provide"precision"... At least not in the way you describe.

    They will - there are four major areas causing inconsistent movement
    - the flex in the flipper bat itself
    - the tolerances between the flipper shaft and the bushing
    - the tolerances in the flipper linkage transfering the linear plunger movement to the rotation of the flipper shaft
    - the deformation of the flipper rubber during contact

    This kind of design tries to address point #1 with the metal bat itself and shaft attachment, and #2 with the flipper shaft to bushing tolerance. You can't deal with #2 with the stock nylon bushings - and that's what he's referring to.

    The linkage tolerance (#3) is more about consistent power.. it will not cause the angles in the flipper movement to change. And #4 - we just accept as part of the physical experience.

    The bushings are very critical to the idea of consistency because without them.. the flipper actually tilts.

    #63 1 year ago
    Quoted from Zitt:

    As I stated, bushings can't and won't provide"precision"... At least not in the way you describe.

    Respectfully - I mean that - respectfully, this is just wrong. Precision - tight tolerances giving less mechanical slop - is the result of the fitment between differing parts. In this case, 2 parts: the flipper shaft and bushing it rides in. The dimension and geometry of both of those parts with respect to each other will determine the slop. Full stop. The bushing is critical to this. My videos measuring the slop of each system (above) demonstrate this both visually and in quantitative measure.

    #64 1 year ago

    I would wonder with all the talk lately, of flippers getting weaker with long play. Flipper coils getting hot, and making the flippers weaker with extended play, would only get worse by increasing flipper weight by 40% and also if you tighten the return spring, you are just adding more resistance making the coil work that much harder. Wonder if the heat and weaker flipper issue with extended play would only get worse with these... Just some thoughts...

    #65 1 year ago

    OK so the mechanism, especially flipper shaft/bushing is machined to very tight tolerance. That sounds good with all the things e.g. grease making so thin layer it does not flow out.

    New Stern games are known to have problems with flipper coils heating up and getting weak - don't know if this is because plunger expanding and friction increasing or coil resistance increasing when hot. But what happens with this new mech when temperature rises? Aluminum bushing and steel shaft probably have different thermal expansion rates. Either the shaft expands more than the bushing, and begins sticking (bad) or the bushing expands more than the shaft, making it loose (tolerable I guess).

    -5
    #66 1 year ago
    Quoted from homebrood:

    I would wonder with all the talk lately, of flippers getting weaker with long play.

    i think a lot of those extended play heat issues would go away if people waxed their games

    #67 1 year ago

    The "precision" to me is in the shot making...

    A good solid flipper is simply more accurate. This was proven to me every time I rebuilt flippers on Monster Bash and watched the Phantom Flip make shot after shot, where the old sloppy flippers barely made one or two in a row if lucky.

    #68 1 year ago

    The thermal expansion coefficient of aluminum is roughly 50% greater than stainless steel. Hence, in this system, as it heats, it will get slightly looser.

    I've done some extended play testing on my Godzilla with this setup. While I didn't measure coil temperatures, I did feel them. After 90 minutes of constant play, the coils were slightly warm. Considerably less hot than what I remember before the upgrade.

    Also note, I only needed a stiffer return spring in Godzilla. The reason is discussed, above (orientation of the flipper mech is worst-case in GZ for rebound). All my other games did not require a stiffer spring; they're all stock. In all these games (except GZ with the stiffer spring), I had to slightly lower the coil power to achieve the same flipper response. That suggests these are more efficient at energy transfer, and as such, less likely to overheat.

    The heating performance could be further tested. I'll see if I can round up some thermocouples and instrument one of my games for comparison to stock setups.

    #69 1 year ago

    Do these flipper bats only work on modern machines, or could they be installed on machines from the early 90's and the 80's like Whirlwind, Bride of Pinbot, etc?

    #70 1 year ago

    Intrigued enough to try them out - order placed

    #71 1 year ago
    Quoted from DiabloRush:

    The thermal expansion coefficient of aluminum is roughly 50% greater than stainless steel. Hence, in this system, as it heats, it will get slightly looser.
    I've done some extended play testing on my Godzilla with this setup. While I didn't measure coil temperatures, I did feel them. After 90 minutes of constant play, the coils were slightly warm. Considerably less hot than what I remember before the upgrade.
    Also note, I only needed a stiffer return spring in Godzilla. The reason is discussed, above (orientation of the flipper mech is worst-case in GZ for rebound). All my other games did not require a stiffer spring; they're all stock. In all these games (except GZ with the stiffer spring), I had to slightly lower the coil power to achieve the same flipper response. That suggests these are more efficient at energy transfer, and as such, less likely to overheat.
    The heating performance could be further tested. I'll see if I can round up some thermocouples and instrument one of my games for comparison to stock setups.

    Are you saying The flipper bats are acting as a heat sink to the coil? You still have a flipper link that is plastic separating the plunger that gets hot to the mechanical linkage of The flipper bat.... I would say the the heat transfer still ends there at the plunger, or maybe you weren't flipping as much because the system is "much more accurate"???? Or do you have metal links between the flipper plunger and The flipper pawl? Or are you saying using metal bushings Bridges the heat to The flipper shaft from the from The flipper Mech where a plastic bushing couldn't do so?

    #72 1 year ago

    No. This has little to do with the thermal conduction through the system. A more efficient mechanical system will require less electrical energy for the same amount of movement. It has to do with the efficiency of the coils ability to turn magnetic energy into mechanical movement. Any mechanical losses will add to this.

    Ultimately, it's an energy balance here. The system will equilibrate at the temperature that balances energy input and output. Some amount of energy (heat) is lost into the coils. This heats them up. They lose this energy (via heat transfer) via radiation, convection, and conduction. The temperature equilibrates to balance between these (like any system at equilibrium). Typically, thermal systems can take a while to reach this equilibrium (months, in the case of the JWST; an hour or two for a flipper coil; it all depends on the thermal mass versus input/output rates).

    There's some second-order effects here, so its a bit more complex (for example, resistance generally increases with temperature, compounding the coil heating). None-the-less, more efficient mechanicals will drive the temperature down. By how much would require a bit more detailed calculation and evaluation. I haven't done that.

    #73 1 year ago
    Quoted from DiabloRush:

    No. This has little to do with the thermal conduction through the system. A more efficient mechanical system will require less electrical energy for the same amount of movement. It has to do with the efficiency of the coils ability to turn magnetic energy into mechanical movement. Any mechanical losses will add to this.
    Ultimately, it's an energy balance here. The system will equilibrate at the temperature that balances energy input and output. Some amount of energy (heat) is lost into the coils. This heats them up. They lose this energy (via heat transfer) via radiation, convection, and conduction. The temperature equilibrates to balance between these (like any system at equilibrium). Typically, thermal systems can take a while to reach this equilibrium (months, in the case of the JWST; an hour or two for a flipper coil; it all depends on the thermal mass versus input/output rates).
    There's some second-order effects here, so its a bit more complex (for example, resistance generally increases with temperature, compounding the coil heating). None-the-less, more efficient mechanicals will drive the temperature down. By how much would require a bit more detailed calculation and evaluation. I haven't done that.

    So you turned up power by 10 points on the flipper due to Increased flipper weight, and have less heat... Unless you are adding some heat sink tricks thru conduction which is what I was getting at.... the metal flipper bushing conducting heat the the flipper shaft, the friction within the coil remains un-changed, it's same plunger. Where is friction lost here? How can the flippers coil be cooler? Isn't there less friction between the nylon bushing and metal shaft vs. metal shaft the metal bushing?

    #74 1 year ago
    Quoted from Zitt:

    I got mine in today; and I don't have to even install it to realize this product is not "precision".
    Sure; they are precision CNCed. But that's where the precision ends.

    This makes no sense. This is like saying the product is painted red but its not red. Precision CNCed *is* by definition precision.

    Quoted from Zitt:

    These are nothing more than Aluminum Flipper bats that have been on the market before.

    There have been aluminum bats on the market before, but none exactly the same. I would argue this is a better design than any of the three previous designs that I am aware of.

    Quoted from Zitt:

    No extra parts - nothing which makes them more accurate.

    I just don't get this? Why would there be extra parts to make it more accurate? The accuracy comes from the stiffness of the bat compared to crappy plastic bats that almost always break and become even worse.

    Quoted from Zitt:

    You don't replace anything but the bats and shafts; so no way can this be a more precise pinball experience.

    See above and attached picture...

    Quoted from Zitt:

    IMHO: certainly NOT worth 65/set of two.

    That is personal opinion, so I won't debate that point.

    Quoted from Zitt:

    Edit: I did NOT order the aluminum bushing as I'm a firm believer if it ain't broke; don't fix it. Nothing wrong with the plastic bushings... and I doubt metal bushings really provide a justified benefit to the player when combined with the risk of a gummy situation when the lubed metal on metal action attracts dust from the rest of the machine.

    Personally I think the bushings will be beneficial too, but not as much benefit as replacing the plastic flipper bat with aluminum.

    Mine just arrived in the mail and are going into Rush some time this weekend!!
    Flipper Bat (resized).jpgFlipper Bat (resized).jpg

    #75 1 year ago
    Quoted from wisefwumyogwave:

    So you turned up power by 10 points on the flipper due to Increased flipper weight, and have less heat... Unless you are adding some heat sink tricks thru conduction which is what I was getting at.... the metal flipper bushing conducting heat the the flipper shaft, the friction within the coil remains un-changed, it's same plunger. Where is friction lost here? How can the flippers coil be cooler? Isn't there less friction between the nylon bushing and metal shaft vs. metal shaft the metal bushing?

    >

    Considerable energy is lost due to resonance in systems with low tolerance. In essence, things bang around instead of smoothly rotating (or deform, in the case of the plastic bat, above). All this wastes energy. This is best illustrated in the games (all but GZ) where I didn’t need stiffer flipper return springs. On all these tables, I had to lower the coil 10-15 points to achieve the same performance. That’s a better apples-to-apples comparison. That reduction in coil impulse time (in ms, I think?) is the reduced energy needed. This is ~5% more efficient, going by coil settings, but that’s just an educated guess.

    #76 1 year ago
    Quoted from John_I:

    Precision CNCed *is* by definition precision.
    [quoted image]

    “Precision” is a relative term….

    #77 1 year ago

    I'd like to.put a set on my Mad Max but I find the 2 jacking holes on top pretty ugly.

    Can the silver be mirror polished or is it silver anodised like the colours?

    Also with our exchange rate it's a tough buy.

    Think I'll wait for some more unbiased reviews.

    Thanks for your review zitt.

    #78 1 year ago
    Quoted from KJS:

    I'd like to.put a set on my Mad Max but I find the 2 jacking holes on top pretty ugly.
    Can the silver be mirror polished or is it silver anodised like the colours?
    Also with our exchange rate it's a tough buy.
    Think I'll wait for some more unbiased reviews.
    Thanks for your review zitt.

    I'm sorry, not to highjack this thread but there is a Mad Max Pinball machine?!?!

    #79 1 year ago

    Triple blues ordered for Tron, it's funny to watch people who spend $10k on a pinball whine about $100. Toppers selling for $2k and the thing my eyes are glued to the whole game is only $50? Give it to me. Don't like the machine screws? Put some toppers on those bats.

    Quoted from KneeKickLou:

    I'm sorry, not to highjack this thread but there is a Mad Max Pinball machine?!?!

    There sure is!

    #80 1 year ago

    The fabrication is real pretty!

    https://blogs.lt.vt.edu/wesleyrogers/2018/04/03/the-japanese-art-of-dorodango-and-polishing-poop/

    I dont see the need of splined shafts. How often does one adjust the flipper angle?

    Seems silly to me.

    But for the price, I can get a 25 year supply of bats:

    https://www.pinballlife.com/flipper-bat-and-shaft-assemblies-no-logo.html

    As far as harder hitting? I think there would be more broken plastics and bent standup targets.

    Not all games have incremental power adjustments for the flippers via the menu.

    All in all, this looks like a solution to a problem that doesnt really exist.

    But, people spend a lot more on silly mods and things...

    #81 1 year ago
    Quoted from KneeKickLou:

    I'm sorry, not to highjack this thread but there is a Mad Max Pinball machine?!?!

    homebrew

    11
    #82 1 year ago
    Quoted from KneeKickLou:

    I'm sorry, not to highjack this thread but there is a Mad Max Pinball machine?!?!

    Yes it's my retheme. Currently using black bats with clear rubber. Metal would look great.
    20201227_080406 (resized).jpg20201227_080406 (resized).jpg

    #83 1 year ago
    Quoted from DiabloRush:

    No. This has little to do with the thermal conduction through the system. A more efficient mechanical system will require less electrical energy for the same amount of movement. It has to do with the efficiency of the coils ability to turn magnetic energy into mechanical movement. Any mechanical losses will add to this.

    I don't understand this thermal tangent at all. 1) The coils are not thermally coupled to anything you are dealing with in this system. You are insulated through the linkages.. made of nylon no less. So the entire topic is not about the materials of your flipper solution but simply about the movement of the plunger in the coil and its transfer of kinetic energy.

    2) Slop in the flipper movement is a loss of transferred kinetic energy to the intended load, not a new load. The slop is periods where the plunger is getting less resistance as it's pushing against less when it's pushing against nothing or off axis. There isn't any 'compensation' for this loss where the coil is being driven harder to make-up for it.. the lost kinetic transfer is just lost to the inconsistent movement. The coil was driven the same.. the magnetic field was the same.. it's just how consistently that linear movement is applied to the intended load.

    I think the only real concern is if you are having to crank the coils to get the stronger magnetic pull to move a heavier mass at the same speed it did previously. Then of course you are making the coil work harder.. and risking increasing heat loads.

    And so far.. the adjustments being talked about are within the kind of normal operating ranges people use anyway, so no biggie.

    It would be more of an issue on games where adjusting the coil driving power isn't an option.

    #84 1 year ago
    Quoted from KJS:

    Yes it's my retheme. Currently using black bats with clear rubber. Metal would look great.
    [quoted image]

    Beautful HS2 retheme. Very nice.

    #85 1 year ago
    Quoted from pinballinreno:

    The fabrication is real pretty!
    https://blogs.lt.vt.edu/wesleyrogers/2018/04/03/the-japanese-art-of-dorodango-and-polishing-poop/
    I dont see the need of splined shafts. How often does one adjust the flipper angle?

    It's two pieces to start with - you can't avoid that as they are different materials and wouldn't as be practical to machine as one piece anyways. So you have to have some sort of attachment.

    I believe they are trying to work around the challenge of how tough it is to get the proper bite on the shaft and instead giving you the option to combine needs and adjust from the topside.

    Quoted from pinballinreno:

    As far as harder hitting? I think there would be more broken plastics and bent standup targets.

    well that's why you'd turn it down too The end-game is not more power, but more consistent action in the flipper.

    Quoted from pinballinreno:

    All in all, this looks like a solution to a problem that doesnt really exist.

    The problem does exist.. for the very reason we rebuild our flippers in the first place. It's more of a question of "is the investment more than the gain" and from a play standpoint if "purity" is actually less desirable.

    Is too perfect not good? I think so.. and we've seen that with flipper rubbers and other rebound material in the past.

    10
    #86 1 year ago

    IMHO, the "too consistent" argument is 100% valid. That's a decision everyone needs to have for themselves. This system is noticeably more consistent than stock. I was accurate when I said I started looping shots on the PPP flippers that I couldn't consistently do before. Others (Joel) have reported the same thing. In his case, backhand shots opened up that weren't consistently available on the OEM setup.

    As my review states, I'm not a great player. Is this system too consistent? From my standpoint, that's a feature I'm happy with. But, I don't play tournament pinball; I pretty much enjoy tinkering, restoring and playing games in my own home. I also have a soft spot for well-engineered stuff. One reason I've enjoyed Radio Control as a hobby, too, along with watchmaking, shifter kart racing, and a few others. Some of the stuff in those Shifter Karts are a marvel to behold. So well made. I also love a well-engineered model kit. The pic, below, is the lovely Pocher 1/4 scale Ducati. Incredible kit, so fun to build. YMMV.
    IMG_1161 (resized).JPGIMG_1161 (resized).JPGIMG_1164 (resized).JPGIMG_1164 (resized).JPG

    IMG_0819 (resized).JPGIMG_0819 (resized).JPG

    IMG_1040 (resized).JPGIMG_1040 (resized).JPG

    IMG_0063 (resized).JPGIMG_0063 (resized).JPG
    #87 1 year ago

    Pinball people love innovation, so long as it doesn't involve change....
    They hate change.

    If there's no solid logic left to argue against change, they'll trot out the 'tradition' crap.

    Case in point, try arguing that there is no need for a coin door in a HUO machine. Clearly obvious point but they'll scream.

    #88 1 year ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    I don't understand this thermal tangent at all. 1) The coils are not thermally coupled to anything you are dealing with in this system. You are insulated through the linkages.. made of nylon no less. So the entire topic is not about the materials of your flipper solution but simply about the movement of the plunger in the coil and its transfer of kinetic energy.
    2) Slop in the flipper movement is a loss of transferred kinetic energy to the intended load, not a new load. The slop is periods where the plunger is getting less resistance as it's pushing against less when it's pushing against nothing or off axis. There isn't any 'compensation' for this loss where the coil is being driven harder to make-up for it.. the lost kinetic transfer is just lost to the inconsistent movement. The coil was driven the same.. the magnetic field was the same.. it's just how consistently that linear movement is applied to the intended load.
    I think the only real concern is if you are having to crank the coils to get the stronger magnetic pull to move a heavier mass at the same speed it did previously. Then of course you are making the coil work harder.. and risking increasing heat loads.
    And so far.. the adjustments being talked about are within the kind of normal operating ranges people use anyway, so no biggie.
    It would be more of an issue on games where adjusting the coil driving power isn't an option.

    That's what I was getting at too, but you were way more elegant in speech.

    #89 1 year ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    I don't understand this thermal tangent at all. 1) The coils are not thermally coupled to anything you are dealing with in this system. You are insulated through the linkages.. made of nylon no less. So the entire topic is not about the materials of your flipper solution but simply about the movement of the plunger in the coil and its transfer of kinetic energy.
    2) Slop in the flipper movement is a loss of transferred kinetic energy to the intended load, not a new load. The slop is periods where the plunger is getting less resistance as it's pushing against less when it's pushing against nothing or off axis. There isn't any 'compensation' for this loss where the coil is being driven harder to make-up for it.. the lost kinetic transfer is just lost to the inconsistent movement. The coil was driven the same.. the magnetic field was the same.. it's just how consistently that linear movement is applied to the intended load.
    I think the only real concern is if you are having to crank the coils to get the stronger magnetic pull to move a heavier mass at the same speed it did previously. Then of course you are making the coil work harder.. and risking increasing heat loads.
    And so far.. the adjustments being talked about are within the kind of normal operating ranges people use anyway, so no biggie.
    It would be more of an issue on games where adjusting the coil driving power isn't an option.

    81E6AD24-4A4A-4780-8D3A-BECED0F72056 (resized).jpeg81E6AD24-4A4A-4780-8D3A-BECED0F72056 (resized).jpeg
    #90 1 year ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    2) Slop in the flipper movement is a loss of transferred kinetic energy to the intended load, not a new load. The slop is periods where the plunger is getting less resistance as it's pushing against less when it's pushing against nothing or off axis. There isn't any 'compensation' for this loss where the coil is being driven harder to make-up for it.. the lost kinetic transfer is just lost to the inconsistent movement. The coil was driven the same.. the magnetic field was the same.. it's just how consistently that linear movement is applied to the intended load.

    TL;DR version:
    Load matters on a coil. More load, higher power and temperatures. 'cause, physics.
    How do I know? Inductive reasoning.

    ----

    detailed and boring version:

    What you need to add to this discussion is back EMF generated in the windings due to the mechanical load. If there's greater mechanical resistance to plunger movement, it will generate additional current in the coil via back EMF. So it's not quite accurate to say "the coil was driven the same". Actually, the coil sees higher currents (drive + back EMF) when there's greater resistance in the plunger. The load is said to "induce" a current in the coil (and this effect is also the principle for the common component known as the inductor).

    Stated another way, there's no free lunch. Electric motors and coils obey the laws of conservation of energy just like everything else. The power to drive a motor (or a coil) is not just a function of motor speed. It depends on the resistance of the load.*

    More load = more work (force x distance) = more power input from the windings. Given that power (the product of voltage x current) into the coils must increase, so too will the heat generation as defined by coil resistance. It just so happens the way nature balances the energy in coils and motors under varying loads is via back EMF. It must be this way, as shown in Maxwell's laws for EM.

    -----

    *to cite the dreaded automotive example, this is why an electric car going a constant speed on a flat stretch of road uses less power than the same car at the same speed going uphill. The difference here (at the same motor speed) is the load. Higher load = more power = more current = higher motor (and battery) temperatures.

    #91 1 year ago

    Maybe I missed it with all this "Law of Thermodynamics" talk, but is there a video out there yet showing these bad boys performing?

    #92 1 year ago
    Quoted from hiker2099:

    Maybe I missed it with all this "Law of Thermodynamics" talk, but is there a video out there yet showing these bad boys performing?

    Yep, I was watching this video last night:

    #93 1 year ago
    Quoted from hiker2099:

    Maybe I missed it with all this "Law of Thermodynamics" talk, but is there a video out there yet showing these bad boys performing?

    Joel on TPN streamed with them last night on TMNT

    #94 1 year ago

    Awesome! Thanks.

    #95 1 year ago

    I hadn't seen the first half of that stream. Joel basically says the same thing I have in my review. He emphasizes the consistency. Nice to see an independent review of these; Joel is at least as enthusiastic about the PPP system as I am.

    "I love it. It's brought new life into this game."
    "I feel they're more precise. They give me more options now."
    "This system brings more enjoyability to the game play. I felt it immediately. I hit a shot consistently I hadn't been able to previously".

    - Joel

    #96 1 year ago

    Can we get cliff notes as to why these are better? I feel like flipper bats fall in the “if it ain’t broke” category…

    #97 1 year ago

    Is there an installation video that shows what’s involved to install these?

    Thanks

    #98 1 year ago
    Quoted from nicoy3k:

    Can we get cliff notes as to why these are better? I feel like flipper bats fall in the “if it ain’t broke” category…

    Because you can't be bothered reading the posts? But you can be fucked asking people to paraphrase the posts for you.

    The usual stuff from the usual people.

    #99 1 year ago
    Quoted from nicoy3k:

    Can we get cliff notes as to why these are better? I feel like flipper bats fall in the “if it ain’t broke” category…

    Metal doesn't flex like plastic.

    This CNC stuff is way better than other CNC stuff

    Screws on top are ugly/screws on top look nice

    Flipping response improved.

    Grease? Fuck it. Just grease it.

    If you can afford a pinball machine stop being cheap you can afford these.

    Engineers know a lot about seemingly nothing.

    There are 2,907 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 59.

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