(Topic ID: 318895)

Review – Precision Pinball Products CNC Flipper System

By DiabloRush

4 months ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 1,513 posts
  • 192 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 59 minutes ago by Skatewake
  • Topic is favorited by 119 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic Gallery

    View topic image gallery

    pasted_image (resized).png
    016B0994-BCD5-41C0-A5CB-FBF208BCE6B0.gif
    94D8E5C3-14CA-4ECB-AA8A-BAA50ECB8655 (resized).jpeg
    A8EB3EE8-FB0D-4085-B8A7-889DEBAC65E5 (resized).jpeg
    C010272A-B639-48EB-8E27-AE5B47F11774 (resized).jpeg
    057272F1-A1AE-4557-8DE1-4BF40E77A431 (resized).jpeg
    B8FD7D27-0BB3-4021-9FB6-7AFB35465731 (resized).jpeg
    20221128_201558 (resized).jpg
    DSCF1703[1] (resized).jpg
    C3A81408-DD6F-41BB-8A14-3BB3FF563E59 (resized).jpeg
    Zilla Gold HALO (resized).jpg
    PXL_20221104_020902872 (resized).jpg
    image (resized).jpg
    IMG_20221125_162031 (resized).jpg
    IMG_20221125_162422 (resized).jpg
    IMG_20221125_162119 (resized).jpg

    Topic index (key posts)

    2 key posts have been marked in this topic (Show topic index)

    There are 1,513 posts in this topic. You are on page 29 of 31.
    15
    #1401 11 days ago

    3d-printed static toys go for $200+ Toppers now sell for $2k. Premium sculpts (JP T-Rex, etc.) are $500+ Backwall sculpts routinely run $600+.

    $70/flipper for a premium upgrade that demonstrably improves play is a bargain among mods. Best bang/buck in the hobby.

    Thanks John, so very much. I know how much work and effort went into these. I'm still stunned you make any money at all, honestly. The CNC time alone must cost at least what you're charging for the Halos.

    #1402 11 days ago

    LORDDREK Your suggestion does have merit, and there could be customers for that type of flipper configuration, but it's just not where my focus is at this time. However, if the game manufacturers wanted them I'd most likely consider doing it for them.

    #1403 11 days ago
    Quoted from LORDDREK:

    I get it.
    “In a world of compromise some don’t.”
    I was a fanboi once too…

    You don't get it at all. You don't get to choose no compromise, that's someone's slogan.

    You can have soft riding in a boat, or you can have stable at rest.

    You can have passenger load in a plane but you can't have range and speed.

    You can have top end flippers that look cool and have a high performance aspect, but you can't have them cheap as well.

    You can have flippers made of alloy with a press fit shaft, but they won't be mechanically strong and there will be no way to fix them when they break, which they will unless made from one piece and then are no longer cheap.

    #1404 11 days ago
    Quoted from LORDDREK:

    A standard or halo bat on a press fit shaft would still be a premium product. The adjustable shaft is a convenience not some revolutionary game changing design.
    The last option nose dived due to poor production. Money was refunded and they disappeared into the sunset.
    Quality and affordability can share the same boat. There is enough seating for all…

    If you have ever changed out many flippers, you will really appreciate the flipper angle adjustability from the topside with the Precision Flipper products.

    In my opinion, even if you don't tweak the flipper angles ever again, just that initial setup is so much easier not having to tighten the shaft, insure the flipper didn't move, rinse and repeat until they are in correct position and tight enough not to move.

    #1405 11 days ago

    It could also be a bunch of extra work, requiring the same amount of material and time to produce, for a lower return.

    I think the economy option already exists in the form of not buying the cnc bushings, or buying only the bushings.

    Having a bit of experience making stuff to sell, furniture in my case, doing high volume, low margin is a lot harder than you think for a small operation.

    #1406 11 days ago
    Quoted from awesome1:

    If you have ever changed out many flippers you will really appreciate the flipper angle adjustability from the topside

    Even if you haven’t changed many! I’ve done exactly one flipper rebuild.

    BB17F588-D510-428E-BD9C-AB6808FBE5EC.gif
    #1407 11 days ago
    Quoted from pabrimmer:

    It could also be a bunch of extra work, requiring the same amount of material and time to produce, for a lower return.
    I think the economy option already exists in the form of not buying the cnc bushings, or buying only the bushings.
    Having a bit of experience making stuff to sell, furniture in my case, doing high volume, low margin is a lot harder than you think for a small operation.

    The economy option already exists in the form of old plastic flippers. Good lord, people routinely pay $20 for some neat looking stickers to go on top of flippers. These things are a steal and a pair of halos cost about the same as the flaming speakers I put on my Zilla. Both look cool, but only one demonstrably improves gameplay. Personally I see enough improvement between the halos from the solids that if it were me, I'd phase the solids out long term.

    #1408 11 days ago
    Quoted from Ollulanus:

    The economy option already exists in the form of old plastic flippers. Good lord, people routinely pay $20 for some neat looking stickers to go on top of flippers. These things are a steal and a pair of halos cost about the same as the flaming speakers I put on my Zilla. Both look cool, but only one demonstrably improves gameplay. Personally I see enough improvement between the halos from the solids that if it were me, I'd phase the solids out long term.

    Please don't be quick to jump on this suggestion John. I think the solids are the bee's knees for some of the older Bally?Williams games.

    Halo's will look garish on Sunset Riders or Sorcerer.

    #1409 11 days ago

    I’m sure it’s already possibly in the works but if I were to have a wishlist of options I would like to see more color options such as purple and orange and finish options of machined, satin, polished and engine turned.

    #1410 10 days ago
    Quoted from punkin:

    Please don't be quick to jump on this suggestion John. I think the solids are the bee's knees for some of the older Bally?Williams games.
    Halo's will look garish on Sunset Riders or Sorcerer.

    Fair enough, different strokes. Ball control feels much better on halos to me though; I'm presuming the reduced mass leads to less bounce. I liked the power and accuracy upgrade on the solids, but I got way more bounce when I put them on Rush than I did with the stock plastic bats. Halos feel pretty identical on that regard to plastic as fast as I can tell. But I agree, halos would look a bit bizarre on my seawitch. I'm generally pretty happy with plastic bats on older, less complex games anyway though.

    Again, different strokes and if there are people that prefer the solids, cool, they already exist and might as well continue to. But I definitely think there's better things for John to focus his efforts on than designing a cheaper option solely to appeal to the handful of folks who care enough to mod their $$$ toy, but not enough to spend an extra $20 and do it right

    #1411 10 days ago

    Totally agree with all you've said.

    My modern machines when i get down to the numbers i want to keep, will all have Halo's on them.

    There's cases for the solids, there's cases for leaving the plastic bats on, and there's cases for the halo's. I took solids out of Tron and put Halo's in, wouldn't go back. But i'd love to reuse the solids in one of my older style machines, maybe Haggis Mermaid when it comes, old style but modern. Same with Sunset Riders, i have a set of gold here to go into it.

    Hankin Orbit 1? Maybe not/maybe.

    11
    #1412 10 days ago

    I just got back in after spending most of the day at, anyone wanna guess where? The machine shop of course, I mean where else would I be on a Sunday, that's when I get the most work done

    The good thing about my being there most of the day was to finalize the NC program for the new link arm clamps after play testing the past couple days, they are going into production tomorrow!

    I also just got caught up on reading some of the continued posts on the topic of the single flipper bat and shaft assembly. I actually put some thought into that today while I was sipping on my coffee while proofing the NC code for the clamps. You guys pretty much covered it in some of the posts. I concluded that configuration would actually complicate a few things that my current design avoids, and it wouldn't yield any real significant cost savings benefits at the end of the day. I do want to thank LORDDREK for just putting his thoughts out there, that's what I like about you guys and this forum topic. I hope all of you know how important you are in contributing your ideas, believe me when I say I take them all seriously.

    This product has come a long way in a short period of time, and I can thank all of you for that

    #1413 10 days ago

    Have you a price for the clamps in mind? I see they are listed on the store front but not available to order.

    #1414 10 days ago

    arrbee I should have pricing for all options by the end of this week.

    #1415 10 days ago

    Anyone try the halos on a Batman66? Was thinking about trying and was curious to see how they look and play on that game.

    #1416 10 days ago

    docquest Here are a few photos of my Batman66 with different color Halo's installed. I like the black, that is what I have installed in my game, kinda works with the Bat art work nicely

    They play and feel great on this game.

    Batman gold (resized).jpgBatman silver (resized).jpgBatman black (resized).jpgBatman blue (resized).jpgBatman red (resized).jpg

    #1417 9 days ago
    IMG_1170 (resized).jpeg
    #1418 9 days ago
    Quoted from 1956PINHEAD:

    docquest Here are a few photos of my Batman66 with different color Halo's installed. I like the black, that is what I have installed in my game, kinda works with the Bat art work nicely
    They play and feel great on this game.
    [quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

    Hey John, how would you describe the improvement on a Batman 66? This is a game I’ve never had too much trouble with in terms of shot makeability or repeatability, so just curious specifically where you feel the improvement is on this title.

    Not suggesting it’s unnecessary, just curious.

    I’m guessing the next set I order from you would more likely be Deadpool, but that’s just based on my expectation that Deadpool would have a little more “ROI” than Batman.

    Appreciate it!

    #1419 9 days ago

    JStoltz There were a couple improvements in what I felt. The first being improved shot repeatability and accuracy of course, including adjusting the flipper angle of the right flipper to backhand the right ramp and other shots to the right side of the playfield with ease from the right flipper.

    While this game deosen't really suffer from flipper fade, I found reducing the coil power extended the time of play before you could start to feel the minor effects of fade on this game. Lastly since all my games have my flipper system installed it just made the game feel and play like all my other games.

    Thanks for asking

    #1420 9 days ago

    We had our first break at the arcade this is after about 2500 plays on Godzilla Pro. So the metal bushings do break over time… Hopefully not a regular occurrence. Good time to order a few more and test these out more on our location machines.

    183E34AE-C767-41BB-BF51-90F633B4E657 (resized).jpegD43FC970-8E60-4B44-B499-2BFFB2B19564 (resized).jpeg
    #1421 9 days ago

    Yeah if there is no significant manufacturing savings to be passed along to consumer then why do it. Thanks for the consideration. As has been heavily reviewed here there is always always a balance that is clear. Too clear in this thread actually.

    Now on to the broken bushing. Interesting. I surmise the lack of flex throughout the age old linkage system puts all that shock into what has obviously been shown to be the weak link.

    I wonder how a plastic bushing is going to fare? I’ll bet better than metal due to the sloppier fit and absorbing qualities. I’d start running a bunch of plastic bushings and see what the life expectancy is. I can already attest most of the upgraded flip is there…

    #1422 9 days ago

    pins4life33 Wow, I'm very surprised to see this. I will gladly send you a replacement set of bushings, I'll get them packaged up and sent out to you today. I've got other location games with over 12,500 plays on many of them to date with no issues, so this is a bit surprising to me.

    John

    #1423 9 days ago

    Plastic bushings break too lordderek… even without the tighter tolerance. So no shock that the alum bushings take a beating.

    We broke a return spring this week… but they break too so can’t really say if advanced wear of not

    #1424 9 days ago

    I assumed these metal bushing wouldn’t ever break (or at least last way longer), hence it being worth the extra cost.

    #1425 9 days ago

    Refer 2nd law of thermodynamics

    #1426 9 days ago

    No worries, I am going to put in an order for a few more machines Williams, Jersey Jack, Dutch Pinball and some more on Stern just to test. Product is great this may be a one off occurrence.

    Thanks!

    Quoted from 1956PINHEAD:

    pins4life33 Wow, I'm very surprised to see this. I will gladly send you a replacement set of bushings, I'll get them packaged up and sent out to you today. I've got other location games with over 12,500 plays on many of them to date with no issues, so this is a bit surprising to me.
    John

    #1427 9 days ago

    Ah yes we get plastic ones that break all the time which is why we have been testing these metal ones. Again only first occurrence no need to panic, stay calm everyone before we bring out the pitchforks

    Quoted from flynnibus:

    Plastic bushings break too lordderek… even without the tighter tolerance. So no shock that the alum bushings take a beating.
    We broke a return spring this week… but they break too so can’t really say if advanced wear of not

    #1428 9 days ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    Plastic bushings break too lordderek… even without the tighter tolerance. So no shock that the alum bushings take a beating.
    We broke a return spring this week… but they break too so can’t really say if advanced wear of not

    I know they do. Did you see my earlier post regarding the flipper play a shattered bushing gave? Perhaps a fluke. Clearly some way more educated opinions here than mine.

    Forgive my attitude. I have a brother with a mechanical engineering degree from BU and he’s pretty arrogant and stupid. I tend to forget not every schooled choad is like him…

    #1429 9 days ago
    Quoted from 1956PINHEAD:

    pins4life33 Wow, I'm very surprised to see this. I will gladly send you a replacement set of bushings, I'll get them packaged up and sent out to you today. I've got other location games with over 12,500 plays on many of them to date with no issues, so this is a bit surprising to me.
    John

    Metal fatigue happens, so not a huge surprise you had one break so far. But it's only one. Environmental factors may also contribute to less/more likely to happen. Time will tell, but I love the engineering aspect of this thread as these are refined.

    #1430 8 days ago
    Quoted from PinMonk:

    Metal fatigue happens, so not a huge surprise you had one break so far. But it's only one. Environmental factors may also contribute to less/more likely to happen. Time will tell, but I love the engineering aspect of this thread as these are refined.

    By environmental factors, if youre implying recycled metal is junk, I agree. I can weld on a 60 year old piece of equipment and make a weld as good as any pro. On new steel, it's a crap shoot with all the impurities. I see it in old plastic as well.

    #1431 8 days ago
    Quoted from Hayfarmer:

    By environmental factors, if youre implying recycled metal is junk, I agree. I can weld on a 60 year old piece of equipment and make a weld as good as any pro. On new steel, it's a crap shoot with all the impurities. I see it in old plastic as well.

    I was talking about temperature, humidity, vibration, but the quality of the source metal is certainly a factor. I just assumed that with 56PHD's experience, he already was working with quality metal. That said, even premium metal can suffer from metal fatigue it's just not as common.

    #1432 8 days ago

    It’s a bit hard to tell from the pics (as the fracture surface is out of focus a bit), but that looks like brittle failure in Aluminum. If so, it was a rapid crack growth, probably happened all at once. This is opposed to ductile failure which is associated with fatigue damage.

    This is important, as ductile failure can be due to excessive strain (and hence, a need for more material* in the base design). Brittle fracture like this is almost always due to impurities of some sort in the metal providing a weak point which then fracture under load. If this is brittle fracture, that points to a material defect and not a design defect. I’d need to see the surface under slight magnification to confirm this. FYI.

    *more material is another example of “the first rule of engineering”. What’s that? “more is better”.

    #1433 8 days ago

    I've requested pins4life33 send me a couple more photos for my review. I should be able to determine if the break is due to a stress riser at the bushing to flange interface. I'll be happy to share my conclusion (if I can make one) after reviewing. Material is 6061-T6, 9900 ksi value, its tough stuff, 12-25% elongation before yielding.

    #1434 7 days ago
    IMG_1172 (resized).jpeg
    #1435 7 days ago
    Quoted from 1956PINHEAD:

    I've requested pins4life33 send me a couple more photos for my review. I should be able to determine if the break is due to a stress riser at the bushing to flange interface. I'll be happy to share my conclusion (if I can make one) after reviewing. Material is 6061-T6, 9900 ksi value, its tough stuff, 12-25% elongation before yielding.

    Never meant to imply you're using inferior material, just using my experience from 40+ years of welding. Even the best sourced products will have a failure occasionally.

    #1436 7 days ago

    Another case for solids, how good would the ruby red's look in Woz?

    #1437 7 days ago

    I'm super-happy with the solid greens in my Emerald Edition Woz.

    IMG_0061 (resized).JPG
    #1438 7 days ago

    Hayfarmer No worries. With your background I can totally relate to what you stated, even with my limited experience with welding (15 years) it's easy to conclude which materials are 'the real thing' and what's full of junk, spitter spatter and so on. I source my raw materials from only one supplier and they all come with certs, even then certs don't mean the material is free of a minor inclusion or localized defect.

    On another note, I wish everyone a Happy Thanksgiving tomorrow with your family and friends. Take time to play a little pinball if you can

    #1439 7 days ago
    Quoted from 1956PINHEAD:

    Hayfarmer No worries. With your background I can totally relate to what you stated, even with my limited experience with welding (15 years) it's easy to conclude which materials are 'the real thing' and what's full of junk, spitter spatter and so on. I source my raw materials from only one supplier and they all come with certs, even then certs don't mean the material is free of a minor inclusion or localized defect.
    On another note, I wish everyone a Happy Thanksgiving tomorrow with your family and friends. Take time to play a little pinball if you can

    Same to you and your family John! You deserve a break from the shop to consume some feathered foul. At least for a couple hrs.......

    #1440 7 days ago

    Finally got around to installing the third flipper on my Mando pro. Bought just the bottom two first and loved the way they looked and felt so finished out the set.

    PXL_20221124_025459131.MP (resized).jpgPXL_20221124_025514600.MP (resized).jpg
    #1441 7 days ago
    Quoted from Basstone18:

    Finally got around to installing the third flipper on my Mando pro. Bought just the bottom two first and loved the way they looked and felt so finished out the set.

    You’ve got Beskar flippers! Amazing!

    #1442 7 days ago

    For those who have been following this forum thread and haven't yet purchased my flipper system, I wanted to make you aware of my Black Friday sale running now through the end of the month. If you've been thinking about giving my flipper system a try then act now and save a few $$. Use Discount Code: 'BLACK-FRIDAY2022' to receive a 10% discount on all my products. Link below.

    https://pinside.com/pinball/my-biz/shop/inventory

    #1443 7 days ago

    I'm still holding out for the hollow point banana flippers

    #1444 7 days ago

    Not banana zipper impulse flippers?

    #1445 7 days ago

    What's the recommended configuration for GNR LE? Black Halo's? What all do you need to order for the mini flipper? Do you order a 3 flipper set and then add on the parts for the mini individually? Thanks!

    #1446 7 days ago

    MikeS Most who have ordered go for black flippers, it's a mix between standard solid topped and HALO's. You would order a three flipper kit, then add on individually one flipper shaft bushing (optional for the upr mini), one Mini flipper, and then one 5-1/2" extended flipper shaft for the Upr mini.

    I think DiabloRush posted some photo's of his GNR (along with a few others) earlier in this thread if you go back a few pages you can see what they look like.
    Thanks,
    John

    GNR Flippers (resized).jpg

    #1447 7 days ago

    I'm going with 3 black halos on my GNR, red rubbers... not doing the upper.

    #1448 7 days ago

    1956PINHEAD are you still working on adjustments the flippers (there was talk about tapering something) or do you expect things are pretty well set for a while?

    Also, there's been discussion about the differences in performance/behavior between the halos and the solids. What's the gist of the differences between the two? I only care about play so would be ordering based on that and not appearance (though all of your products look very nice).

    Thanks + Happy Thanksgiving.

    #1449 7 days ago

    @ blueberryjohnson I plan to update the lower lip at the tip of the flipper bats just below the rubber as a few have had some minor ball marking when using softer of thinner flipper rubbers. Other than that, no more changes planned. Even then the overall basic shape has been unchanged since release of the HALOGRAPHIC-PRO's. This minor change will be phased in over the next production run late Jan time frame.

    The Solid topped flipper bats are still the flipper bat of choice among buyers. Most have stated that the HALO's have a better feel, I like them myself as well. They still carry a punch, but dead bounce and live catches seem to be a little more softer with a little less ball reaction. This of course all depends on the type of flipper rubber used, I have stuck with the standard factory rubber on all but one of my games.

    Maybe others who have played both types of flipper bats can respond back as well to give you some additional feedback.

    Thanks for the Kudos, really appreciated and Happy Thanksgiving to you too!

    #1450 7 days ago

    Pretty much as you said John. The Halo's have more feel and seems easier to be a pinball stuntman for a hack like me. Catching on flipper tips, tip passing etc, seems to come naturally.
    I've used titans and perfect plays and they both work well.

    The halo's also have a more pleasant sound if that's important to you. Quieter and less 'tinny'.

    There are 1,513 posts in this topic. You are on page 29 of 31.

    Reply

    Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

    Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

    Donate to Pinside

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!