(Topic ID: 87383)

Restoring Black Knight, cpr playfield swap..etc.. issues.

By debauche

10 years ago


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  • 28 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 years ago by LEE
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 10 years ago

So I swapped playfields in this BK basket case 3 years ago.. today I decided to finally get it back together. I am having a few issues.
1) first, in the bottom of the cab there is a harness that comes off the transformer toward the front.. Even if unplugged, the game seems to work.. This supposed to go anywhere? There is a wire cluster that has a dark blue 6 pin molex, a 2 pin molex, and a white 12 pin molex, and a 9 pin long connector with 3 wires in it (grey/green, brown, gry). Again, game 'seems' to work without any of those hooked up. I have a rottendog power supply, and it has a 2-plug connector on it.. however plugging them together makes no dif to my other issues.. not sure if these just sit and remain unconnected?

2) All the playfield lights work and are new. But none of the GI lighting works. In test mode with all lamps on, the still do not work.

3) 2 lights in the backglass flicker.. the ones with wires directly to them. However, none of the others do. In test mode, all the bottom lights in the tubes are one, except the leftmost one. I can put a dmm on the wires set to AC, and see a voltage in the wiring that pulses.. but lights don't come on.

4) I went through the testing and set all switches to be open. On the solenoid test, #8 and 9 do not work. If I meter the wires, there is a voltage to the coil, but it does not pules to fire like the other coils do if I set them to fire continuously. More than likely a transistor?

5) When test mode is on, I leaned against the left flipper button and the flippers went off.. however the right side does not.. should flippers fire in test mode?

6) The game doesn't always boot when turned on.. turning it off, then on again usually works. What would cause this to be so intermittent a problem? With the rottendog power, the issue should not be voltage or power..

#2 10 years ago

I would start at the power supply. You have a new p/s, so I would make sure all the connectors are solid and that you are getting proper voltages to the other parts of the game.

All the connectors you found have a mate somewhere in the game. Look closer, they are there somewhere.

If you are using original boards, you will need to replace the 40 pin interconnect board between the mpu and driver board.

I would also replace our at least check that your sockets are solid. Either the interconnect or sockets could be causing your intermittent boot up issues.

#3 10 years ago

Thanks Schertz, I'll check.

Another issue I forgot to add is I can add a credit, but cannot start a game.

On the connector issue, when I look at pictures online of an original machine, the old power supply doesn't have the 2 pin molex connected, or the longer connector either... or a spot even for them like the rottendog does. Due to how it is tied, they can only reach to certain areas. The dark blue molex attached to the other 3 I can't find a place for can connect into the one off the front side of the lower transformer, but then the other 3 connectors cannot reach anything. There is a second blue molex that is identical, but I have plugged that one into the upper transformer. I'll try to find more under playfield pics, but wasn't successful yesterday finding much.

#4 10 years ago

I looked at it again.. it's almost like there are 2 choices to power the back box. One, run the power molex with the 120v wiring adapter on it up to the upper transformer, which in turn has connections to run into the power supply. The left over connectors look like they could run directly into the power supply pcb for the 12 pin molex, and a blue molex that could feed the upper transformer.. so the power supply seems like it would run off the lower transformer.. like you can chose which one to run off of? that make sense? If it ran off the lower, then the harness has a 2 pin molex that could go into the rottendog as well as the long connector.
http://www.rottendog.us/WPS079.htm
on that pic, I have everything connected except for the 2 pin connector on the lower edge, as well as the 2 black connectors to the right of that. However, the other harness looks like it could plug into the 6 pin connection, and the 2 pin to the right of it. The wider connector that could go to the long black row of pins only has 3 wires to it.

#5 10 years ago

didnt black knight have an early version where transformer was in back box and later version where transformer was in cabinet ? maybe 3 years ago you swapped the transformer too and forgot to take the old one out ?

#6 10 years ago

There should only be one transformer in the game, unless one was added.

#7 10 years ago

I got this off of someone else.. The one in bottom is mounted on a board, looks original.. top one is inside a mesh cage, also looks original.. unless someone put 2 together at some point in the past.

#8 10 years ago

sounds like an early top and a late bottom were put together

#9 10 years ago

I looked into it more, and basically it looks like the plug from the wall comes in, goes to a fuse and service plug, then the 2 wires go up to the top to power the transformer.. doesn't look like bottom used so will probably pull out.

Had a lot of success today. Changed out 3 x tip122 and got all the coils working and right magnasave. Found a short in the GI wiring and got all that lit up. So I am very close.. looks like I might not need a rottendog mpu/driver after all... didn't know I had the tip122's lying around.

So only a couple issues left.

- Whenever I turn it on, only the GI lighting is on.. I need to turn it off/on again for the game to run.. consistently.

- I metered Q55 and Q75 as bad, but assume they would test the same sequence as all else on the board (didn't know they were different transistors). To save me pulling it all out again and ordering just these 2 transistors from digikey for potentially nothing, if one or both of these were bad, what would that manifest as in the lighting? It all seems to work fine, but I'm not exactly familiar with what 'correct' is.

- The right 2 flippers do not work. I can short the middle pin and they fire (all flipper assemblies/coils brand new). I attached the banded end of the diode on the left side, to the right side, and no go. I also re-inserted the 2 orange wires on the left side, 2nd connector down on driver board.. nothing.. Any ideas? relay? How would I test relay?

#10 10 years ago

You should try and replace TIP122's with TIP102's as they are a bit more robust.

If you have to power cycle the game for it to boot, you may need the batteries replaced(or installed) on the CPU.

Do you have voltage at the flipper buttons?

#11 10 years ago

I have 3 rechargables.. maybe I will just try aa's. I have 38/39v dc at all 3 posts on both flippers.

also, what is the diode on the playfield lights? I have a couple that need to be replaced..

thanks!

#12 10 years ago

1N4004 or higher than 4004 ie; 4005, 4006, 4007, etc.

#13 10 years ago

thanks, and I have 38v as well on 2 posts on the flipper buttons, nothing on the middle post. Putting in AA's didn't help on the boot.

#14 10 years ago

p.s., is there way to set freeplay mode on the pin? Either that or set 25c per play vs 50c? I can't seem to find any info on that...

#15 10 years ago

Setting adjustment 18 to 0 will give you free play.

I once had a pinball machine that the flippers didn't work because the flipper switches needed to be filed clean.

#16 10 years ago

Is it a feature that if you don't get points on a ball, the ball doesn't count? It only seems to count balls if a ball scores something. But got it to freeplay, thanks.

The flippers button switch is pretty eaten down, but I metered it and there is continuity when the button is pressed.

#17 10 years ago
Quoted from debauche:

Is it a feature that if you don't get points on a ball, the ball doesn't count? It only seems to count balls if a ball scores something.

Right, if a ball drains without scoring a single point, it is relaunched to the shooter lane.

#18 10 years ago

Mine was doing same thing on the left flippers. If I recall ther was constant power on the orange wire and when u hit the flipper it basically went to ground completing the circuit . Mine turned out to be a fried connector on the driver board. If u swap boards the kohout boards were top shelf!

#19 10 years ago

My connectors all look good.. I reflowed the driver and mpu board connectors as well.

#20 10 years ago

mine looked good too but the ground for the left side flipper in the plug heated up and melted back maybe 1/16 and that was enough. i bought the connector kit from kohout when i bought his power and sound board combo.

#21 10 years ago

Well ordered a new relay and the transistors.. see if that makes a dif.

#22 10 years ago

I'll meter the connectors when I take the boards out for the relay swap.

#23 10 years ago

New relay, and replaced the tip42/2n6122 that seemed bad, but no change.. right flippers still dead. I'm wondering on the initial boot. It is consistent that on turning it on, only the GE lighting is on, nothing else. I actually found out I can operate the left flippers as well when it is in this state. I always have to flick it off/on fast and then it boots fine.

#24 10 years ago

p.s. I also noticed that I set it to freeplay, but it didn't keep the setting. I have new batteries in it. Is ic10 the backup ram?

#25 10 years ago

Update, there was continuity to driver pcb through the edge connector J12 for the right side, but not the left. The contact in the connector was not making much contact with the pin, so bent it out. So I got the lower right flipper working now, but the upper right one would not. I metered the resistance on the coils and it measured something like 75 ohms compared to around 3 on the others (think that was the number). All of these coils are new, and in fact the Marco full flipper kits with plates..etc. So this coil is obviously mis-labelled. Have to get a new one.

One thing I am also wondering about on the Marco site, is the coil for SFL-19-400, 30-750 which are the Williams flipper coils, has a disclaimer stating they are for normally open switches.. the kits I have, and the original flippers had normally closed switches. Marco hasn't emailed me back on this question in a few days (horrible communication), so wondering if that is a typo for that coil?

1 month later
#26 9 years ago

Update: So the coil in this flipper bracket/rebuild kit was mislabeled. Ordered a proper coil and the flippers work. The multiball aside from issue below was not functioning correctly as per ball switches, so burned version 4 roms (had v3) and it seems to function correctly. I have not played with that much but it seems like the last word the knight says before kicking a ball is cut off a bit.. will see when I get the assembly working properly. I have all working now except for a couple issues.

- Bootup still the same. The first time I turn machine on it is locked with all playfield lights on, then turn off/on and it works fine. This is consistent.

- The multiball upkick does not seem correct. I have the spring on the rod, then going to the end of the bracket with a hole.. does not seem to be any other way to have it. But in doing this, the upkick is basically extended in its travel at rest, and sticks up into the multiball lock slot on playfield a bit. So, if a ball goes into there, it stops at the slightly protruding upkicker and never triggers the first switch to send another ball into play. Shouldn't this be down below the playfield? I cannot see how else to set the spring, or how to get it slightly lower. It seems the spring is basically a shock absorber when the ball is hit.. but cannot see anywhere else to attach.

- When multiball kicks (I don't have plastics on), it does so hard enough to launch the ball over the top edge down to by the left ramp bottom playfield. For sure this would probably nail the plastic when it kicks the ball out. Is there a protector in that area I might be missing?

- Anyone else with the cpr playfield have the lower playfield, middle ball lock have the ball get stuck in the hole and unable to eject properly 60-70% of the time?

#27 9 years ago

Does ne have a closeup pic of the upper and lower side of the multiball assembly?

2 weeks later
#28 9 years ago

Would these work?
I am in the process of swapping this PF out. I will be upgrading the switches to micro-switch assemblies and can get some pics of them. However, it may be months before I get there.
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