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(Topic ID: 123214)

Restoring a Nine Ball


By aKa

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 293 posts
  • 18 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Classic_Stern
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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There have been 43 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

stn-a382-1.jpg
Big_coil.jpg
Test_switch.png
Coin_door_block.png
Multimeter.jpg
Right flipper assembly.jpg
Left flipper assembly.jpg
fuse_breaker.jpg
Flipper assemblies placement.jpg
Right slingshot switches.jpg
Left slingshot switches.jpg
Flippers assemblies wiring.jpg
Side_rails_pressure.jpg
stn_assembly.jpg
277715-i.jpg
Left_flipper_in_up_position.jpg

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#1 5 years ago

Hello Pinsiders,

I just acquired my first pinball, a Nine Ball (Stern, 1980).

It needs some love, and I hope you'll help me give it to her (him, it ?).

For starter, a fuse question : the fuse under the playfield burned. It says 2,5A 250V on the fuse, and under the playfield a sticker says "Warning, use only a 1 1/4 Amp Slo-Blo Fuse". I don't know if it makes any difference, but the pinball works on 220V (like anything else in France). What Fuse should I put in ?

#3 5 years ago

It seems to be indeed connected to the solenoids on the playfield, as it is located between the two flippers, but there's too many cables to tell where it's going. I noticed that one of the cables on the left flipper assembly is unsoldered. Could it be the cause of the blowing ?

I guess an image is worth a thousand words ...
Fuse.jpg

I had high hopes I wouldn't have to solder anything. That would be a first for me, even though I know how to do it.

Final word on the fuse values (amps and voltage) ...

#7 5 years ago

I wasn't feeling like soldering, but I feel even less about changing the flipper assembly. I'll probably do it at a later time, but given I'm quite a novice regarding pinball surgery, I won't break things that work for now.

Don't worry, I have plenty of other issues I'll share with you over the next days and weeks. I'll just take my sweet time, won't sweat and tackle one thing at a time.

Thanks you all for your advices, keep them coming !

#8 5 years ago

So, I checked the resistance of all the coils under the playfield (except the flippers ones, I don't know exactly how), including those inside the big drop targets bank (they were a bit of a pain to get to) and they all check out fine.

Before I put a new fuse in, I found a couple of things for you experts to give an opinion about :

- a loose wire on one of the leaf switch on the big drop targets bank. Could it make the fuse blow ? I don't think so but what do I know ?

- a couple of leaf switches with things cut or removed :

This is the switch of the passive bumper with a round thingy partialy cut
Leaf Switch 1.jpg

This is the switch of the upper mini-orbit gate with something that has been removed (possibly the same round thingy)
Leaf Switch 2.jpg

#10 5 years ago

I guess they are not essential for now, but I'll keep that in mind. Funny that they were deliberately cut ...

#13 5 years ago

Can I find these capacitors in any hardware store, or do they have weird old ss pinball values ?

I guess I have to desolder the other wire that is on the same lug and make a clean new soldering. It may seem like nothing, but have some apprehension before doing such a task. As Noah said, these are skills I will have to master now that I own a pinball. Damn hobby !

#14 5 years ago

On another subject, I put the new fuse in (a quarter amp, slow blow), started the machine, and it didn't blow, but I still can't start a new game. I still haven't fixed the two loose wires, but I understand they should not prevent the game from starting or blow the fuse. How long does a fuse takes to blow if it has to ?

The machine goes through it's usual routine, makes the right number of bips, and goes to attract mode.
No weird numbers on the displays, but a knocking sound each time before attract mode, somewhere in the rear half of the playfield.

A button has been added in front of the machine, left of the coin door (not on the coin door itself), but once again too many wires swirling all around to tell where it's going. It's clearly a later addition. I haven't seen this button on pictures of other Nine Balls. The previous owner told me it's what he used to start a game. In fact I wonder how a game is started on other Nine Balls.

#16 5 years ago

The issue I have is that the credits are already maxed (40), and since I can't start a new game, it won't go down. Can I flush those credits ? The credit button (the one ON the coin door, not the added one on the wood left of the door that I talked about) does nothing.

#19 5 years ago

Unfortunately it won't start a game, and I don't see any loose wire. I'll take some pictures (and stop editing my posts all the time).

I know it won't change anything for me, but where is the start button located on other Nine Balls ? I can't see it on any pictures.

#20 5 years ago

I can't seem to make any telling pictures, but the wiring behind the door seems fine.

The self test button doesn't seem to do anything either, which would go with the assumption that no button on the door work. Oh how I'd love to reset those credits to try to add new ones with the mechanism behind the coin chute !

#22 5 years ago

Oh, the "credit button" then. I guess the orange button on mine is a "add a credit + start a game all in one button" then. Neither of them seem to do anything. Where's the "flush all the credits down the toilets" button ?

An orgy of buttons.jpg

#24 5 years ago

Yeah, I guess two buttons (let's not count the rusty rod) is a bit short for an orgy.

I already though about the tilt and checked the 3 tilt mechanisms. They are not in tilt position.

#29 5 years ago

Well, I did forget to put the balls back in since I was in the process of stripping the playfield.
Put them back in, no change.

This machine as been really neglected by the previous owner. He was trying to sell it for quite some time, and it worked when he posted the ad. Obviously, he had not played it since then and it didn't work when I bought it (well it almost works to be honest )

There's one ribbon cable that links the sound card to the other card (the one on the back, upper left) that has a few pins loose, but I put it back on the boards and it seems to works (I think it only carries the sound). It's the one on the left on the sound card (the one on the left side of the box, if I'm not mistaken).

Some pics :

Backbox 1.jpg
Backbox 2.jpg
Backbox 3.jpg

#32 5 years ago

Curbfeeler, no need to bring you here when I can ask the local operator who cut the capacitors or the one who put the gottlieb flippers to have a look ...

The test switch while in attract mode does the same thing it does when the power cord is unplugged, which is nothing.

Some more pics for your viewing pleasure guys and girls :

Inside the beast 1.jpg
Inside the beast 2.jpg
Inside the beast 3.jpg
Inside the beast 4.jpg
Inside the beast 5.jpg

Yes I know it's dirty and rusty. Shame on the previous owner !

#34 5 years ago

The black wires don't touch themselves, the blades are close but they do not touch themselves. I disconnected the button to make sure it wasn't the cause of the mystery. No change.

I removed the tilt bob, but it wasn't touching anyway. No change.

I tried the slam switches open and close. Isn't one enough Stern ? No change. I didn't find a third one under the playfield, thank God !

The test button is still sulking in his corner.

#36 5 years ago

Well I'll be damned ! There was a connector unplugged in the head. You can see it (a bit) hanging on "Backbox 3" picture. The game now starts.

That's all folks for tonight (it's getting late here in France). Thank you all for your help and let's do it again tomorrow for another bunch of issues !

#37 5 years ago

A question about rubbers :

The manual indicates 1,75 ; 2,25 and 2,75 inches rubbers but it seems those sizes are not commonly available nowadays (didn't find it anywhere). Should I go for tighter or looser ones ?

#39 5 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

That is a cute hack to use a single 2764 eprom.

If only I knew what you're talking about ...
Well, if the hack works and poses no problem, I can continue to blissfully ignore it.

#41 5 years ago

Barakandl, what I was trying to tell you is that what you are saying is gibberish to me.

I'm pretty ignorant on the electronics side of pinball or any other devices in general. I can plug things, and have already built computers because, well, it's basically just plugging things.

Unless you post pretty pictures with arrows on it, I'll never get what you're talking about.

#43 5 years ago

I have no problem going into test mode, whether it is by pressing the test mode button or by making a connection between the two lugs. Is it what you're getting at ?

Speaking of things being grounded, I noticed the mpu is not screwed to the back of the box. In my post #29, Backbox 2 picture, you can see there are no screws in the top right and lower left of the board. Is it normal ? Can it be troublesome ? There's a big warning in that box about boards needing to be grounded for "proper game operation".

#46 5 years ago

Oh yeah I understand about the braided metal cable. It just seems to me that the mpu board is only held in place by plastic pegs. I can't see any metal screw or any metallic contact between the board and the back.

I did strip the playfield, but left everything that was connected so that I could keep testing the table.

#47 5 years ago

I'll keep posting my questions and hope the previous one (the grounded mpu thing) will get some feedback.

After browsing the forums, it seems I should go for smaller rubbers if the original size is not available. File closed.

Now, about the loop drop target. Mine is not the original one and maybe some Nine Ball owners can chime in. It does a loud clanking sound when dropping and the under playfield mechanism seems odd :

Loop target Topside.jpg

This one is a bit blurry but I'm sure you can see the bent bracket.
Loop Target Underside.jpg

The bottom of the target's support hits the bracket loudly. I'm pretty sure it shouldn't do that.

#49 5 years ago

A bit late to the party, Mac.
Yeah I know, others speculated about, and I can confirm it loud and clear. Thanks mate.

Maybe you have an opinion on the metal-screwless board ? I think I'll just had those screws and be done with it ...

A forum-related question for you guys : Should I start another thread in the restoration sub-forum for all the non-guts (of the machine) related questions ?

#51 5 years ago

Rubber addendum : can a 3 inches rubber (the biggest Titan silicone rubber) fit what the manual calls for 3,5 inches, or is it too much of a stretch ?

#52 5 years ago

Alright, so I have a stupid question that goes back to my first post in this thread. The "1 1/4 amp" fuse that is advised on the warning under the playfield is a bit ambiguous to me, am I supposed to read 0.25 amp or 1.25 amp ?

#54 5 years ago

The thing is, I've gone several time through the manual (the one I found online, I don't have the original) just to make sure, and I could'nt find any mention of the fuses.

Quoted from Curbfeeler:

Shipping is more than fuses, so get all you need in 1 purchase.

I know a store in Paris where I can find fuses of any values, so that's not an issue for me.
I managed to order things in 2 purchases (1 done, from the U.S., 1 to go, from France, when I'll be sure I've catalogued all that I need).

#56 5 years ago

Your opinion people on the following :

One of the wooden leg support inside the cabinet is splitting, should I replace it or will it hold with the bolts tightly screwed in ? I'm sure you'll say yes, but take my extreme laziness into consideration.
Leg support.jpg

There's a slight mildew smell coming from the cabinet (rather from the front), which I've been treating with regular vodka spraying for a couple of days (don't laugh, I've read this advice here on pinside). Should I be worried about further mildew deterioration and take a more radical action ?
Cabinet bottom 1.jpg
Cabinet bottom 2.jpg

#58 5 years ago

Those are great. Too bad I already made my order from pinball life (currently shipping). The shipping across the Atlantic is too costly to make an other order from them. I'll see if I can find them closer to my home ...

#60 5 years ago

Hi bznhvx,

I can't do a scan but I can try to make a good picture of that area on my playfield. It's in a rather good shape, and who knows, I might need it after I remove the mylar myself.

I'll do it tomorrow if I can get myself in a good spot to take the picture. It's a bit of a mess restoring a pinball when you live in a single room ...

Oh, and it shouldn't stop anyone else from providing a scan if possible.

#64 5 years ago

Hey bznhvx, I think I've been a bit optimistic when I said I would get you a picture today. I still have a lot to do (including cleaning the pf) before I can get to a suitable position to make a clean picture.

I also agree with Curbfeeler's solution being the best, even though it's a bit of work and some new skills to acquire.

1 week later
#66 5 years ago

I'm going to replace the flippers assemblies tomorrow, and do some soldering.
A couple of questions :

Are the wires that connect the flipper coils to the eos switch always on the same two lugs of the coils (when looking from the same perspective), as it seems to be the case on this picture ? (There's a lose wire but he goes on the switch lug)
Flippers assemblies wiring.jpg

My four leaf switches inside the slingshots are not wired the same way. There's also a capacitor (half-cut) on one side and not on the others. What should I do ?
Left slingshot switches.jpg
Right slingshot switches.jpg

As a matter of fact, where should there be capacitors ? There' one on a stand-up target, one on the horseshoe loop gate, but none on the spinner, one on the dead bumper, but none on the active one. And apparently one on one of the slingshots switches.

#68 5 years ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

They SHOULD be, but you have a Gottlieb flipper coil on the left with a different configuration. You need to replace that with a Bally AQ-25-500 or Stern J-25-500 equivalent.

Yes I have two brand new classic Stern assemblies. Should I wire them just like the current ones ?

#70 5 years ago

Thanks dothedoo for your useful advises.
My flippers assemblies are screwed at odd angles, when I can see aligned screw marks on the playfield to put the two assemblies straight in line.
Flipper assemblies placement.jpg

Since I'm putting new ones, should I place them straight ? Does it matter ?

#73 5 years ago

Alright, so I installed the new flipper assemblies, made the few solderings I had to do, and now the machine doesn't start. It powers up, but no sound or light anywhere on the playfield or backbox, except for the top right arrow insert.

What did I screw up ?

#75 5 years ago

Here we go :

Left flipper assembly.jpg
Right flipper assembly.jpg

I also resoldered a loose wire on the big drop target bank (on one of the switches), replaced 3 capacitors and removed the capacitor on the slingshot leaf switch (see post #66).

I should add that I also removed the door to work on it and just replugged it without screwing to test the machine.

#77 5 years ago

Well, I tried to do all the soldering work at once, which wasn't that much anyways. The door thing is just a matter of unplugging and plugging back a molex thingy. Otherwise, I don't believe cleaning the playfield or painting the cabinet to be the source of my issue.

But I agree my machine is now in a worse working condition than it was before. I think it was almost unavoidable since all the work I've done on the machine was a new thing for me, and I'm quite uncomfortable with electronics.

#79 5 years ago

F4 seems fine visually.

Can I test it with my multimeter ? I'm ignorant there too, and the manual is quite succinct.
What, where, how ?
Multimeter.jpg

#82 5 years ago

The meter says the fuse is OK.

#84 5 years ago

All 6 fuses on the rectifier board check out fine. The one under the playfield still blows, but that's an issue we'll see later.

Any other fuses I'm not aware of ?

What's the next step ?

Thanks by the way for assisting me in this, it's my first pinball so I still have a lot to learn.

#87 5 years ago
Quoted from mof:

There can be one on the solenoid driver board "SDB" (depends on which version you have)
-mof

I checked it. Not on mine.

#89 5 years ago

Didn't read it mof but I already skimmed through it some time ago.

I found the issue, but I can't pinpoint the exact cause. The machine works (well, still a few quirks to fix later) when the backbox panel is open. I guess there's some kind of short-circuit going on when the panel is close, but I don't see where. Well at least I got to use my multimeter, yay !

#91 5 years ago

Repin all the connectors ... that sounds sweet and fun !

Seriously, I think I'll pass on this one if I can, but I'll keep that in mind. Well that's what I said about the flippers and I changed them in the end.

I'm at the point where I'm eager to wrap this partial restoration up and play a game on the thing.

#94 5 years ago

Capacitor question : I didn't notice it at first but the ones I bought in a specialised store (so the guy knew his thing and seemed to understand what I asked for) are marked .47K. I gave the guy the reference Vid gave me (.047uF) but there seems to be a missing 0 on mines, which I suppose is quite a different value. Was I given the wrong ones or am I missing something ?

#96 5 years ago

OK thanks.

2 weeks later
#97 5 years ago

I'm back to work on my Nine Ball.

For starter, the speaker is buzzing when the machine is on. I also find the volume too high even at its minimum. Suggestions ?

#98 5 years ago

I'll continue with an old issue I'd like i'd like to fix.

There's still something that blows the under-playfield fuse. The rectifier board fuses are OK so my guess is a solenoid (or two) on the playfield are the cause. I've checked their resistance, including the ones in the left bank, and they're all fine.

The game is acting funky, especially the big left targets bank, when I start a game so it's hard to tell what coil is working and what other is making the fuse blow.

Funnily, and for whatever reason, I can't get the test mode to start, so that's also something ...

#99 5 years ago

The impossibility to start the diagnostic mode baffles me. I did it before, and the other buttons on the front are functionnal.

Anyways, there's two coils that are briefly energised during the beeping initialising sequence when I turn on the table. Is it normal or indicative of a problem with these two coils (the big target bank one and the loop drop target one) ? Can it be the cause of the under-playfield fuse blowing ?

#102 5 years ago
Quoted from Sheprd:

Check for a stuck closed switch in the matrix row/columns where the door test switch is... if it does not see the switch close, it's not going into test mode. I had the spinner switch closing on me when I raised the playfield. Also leave the apron off and watch the balls flow down the trough... I had a problem where after a ball or two, the next one would not always roll forward, causing a stuck condition after locking a ball in the left stack area.

Still can't get into test mode. There doesn't seem to be any stuck switch on the door (I assume you mean the ones that are activated when you put a coin).

As for the playfield, I keep it in it's vertical service position because it's a pain in the ass to go back and forth between this position and the playing one. I repainted the cabinet interior sides and it's a manoeuvre that can scratch the paint. So no balls in the game, I just keep the switches closed with my hand to start a game. It works for this so it should work for the test mode (not sure it needs balls anyways).

So, still stuck.

#103 5 years ago

An update : There's a molex on the big 8 drop bank. When I unplug it, I can start a game without blowing the under-playfield fuse. It only disconnects the big bank, but it seems only the loop drop target coil is working, all the others are dead.

#106 5 years ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

Short J3 pin 1 to ground, see if it goes into self test. If it does, you have a connector/wiring/switch problem. If it doesn't, U10 is probably bad.

Stupid question, but how do I do that ? Do I remove the connector and connect the first pin with a wire to the ground ?

#108 5 years ago

OK I shorted the pin and the machine went into test mode.

It seemed to me that a few solenoids did not work. Unfortunately, after three passes, the time it took me to start understanding the sequence, the only fuse I had left blew. I'll buy some more tomorrow but for now I'm not too sure what to think.

It seemed number 7 didn't fire up. It's the bumper one. It reads 10 ohms, like the other similar coil (loop target one, which definitely works). What else could be wrong with it and how do I determine the problem ?

I should add that the few times I started the game and before the fuse blew, the big target bank acted wonky, which may have prevented other coils from firing (the loop target one or the two other small drop banks) since the game can only do one thing at a time, but I never saw any other coil fire up (for example the ball kickout hole or slingshots).

If I disconnect the big bank and start a game, the loop target coil is the only one functioning. It may be because the big bank coils precede the other coils except the loop target one. It may also explain why an issue with one of the big bank coils may prevent the rest of the coils from firing up.

#109 5 years ago

Let me share with you some strange discoveries.

Dropping the loop target a couple of time seems to blow the under-playfield fuse. The fuse will also eventually blow when there's a new ball or a new game. I managed to "play" (with the playfield in vertical position) a few games, avoiding the loop target, and the table behaves quite strangely.

Starting a game drops targets 4 and 5 of the big target bank, but the ball kicker doesn't activate. Hitting the bumper drops target 3, but no bump. The slingshots don't sling, but the left one drops target 6 and the right one target 7. On some games, the target 1 coil will fire every 10 seconds. Otherwise, the bank coils work correctly when hitting the targets or hitting the dead bumper or the inlanes when lit.

The two small target banks coils are unresponsive. I noticed that the rightmost target of the right bank doesn't register, but it might have nothing to do with it. The leaf switch is correctly set and the wiring seems fine, but it doesn't register.

I've burned through some fuses but I can still do a couple of self-test on the machine. Would it be informative given the wacky behaviour of the coils ?

#111 5 years ago

Damn it dothedoo ! You could not let that J4 go, you had to make me rebuild it ! Well I'll do it, I hope you're happy.

Can I (temporarily) macgyver my way through it to see if it is indeed the cause of my problems, or do I have to yet again order new stuff and wait some more days to sort it out ?

Can it be the cause of the under-playfield fuse blowing, or is it a separate issue ?

#113 5 years ago

I'm sure you can't find this connector anymore. I intend to make an order from Pinballcenter since they have a large catalogue and I may need some coils.

Can I make up a compatible connector with what they have ?
http://www.pinballcenter.eu/catalog/electronics-parts-connectors-c-10_222.html?language=english

#115 5 years ago

It's unfortunately long and expensive to order oversea, even for the tiniest object. I passed on ordering the correct loop drop target plastic from Marco, as it was 3 dollars for the target and 30 dollars for the shipping ...

Can't I salvage the current connector ? Any other way I can explore ?

#117 5 years ago

I see "crimpcontacts" on page 3 of their connector section. Is it what you're talking about ?

#119 5 years ago

Not to be too insistent, but aren't those the 0.093" ones ?

#123 5 years ago

They're not kidding with the price of the crimping tool. I'll try to find a cheaper one, or do the work by hand (I'm sure it's tedious). Thanks dothedoo for the directions. Given the number of crimp pins you want me to buy, I presume you imply that I should rebuild all the connectors ...

#124 5 years ago

Now regarding the coils situation, is the test mode reliable to determine coil malfunction with (presumably) the J4 connector jumbling things ?

#127 5 years ago

Yeah, the big target bank coils fire several times during the test, so J4 seems to be the culprit. I'll rebuild the connectors, but is it necessary to also rebuild the headers on the boards ? They look really fine ...

During the test, the fuse blows consistently right after the loop target coil is activated (it's the last one, since there isn't the coin door coil mentioned in the manual). That coil's resistance is normal, so what should I look for ?

#128 5 years ago

The ribbon cable that goes from the mpu board to the sound board also needs to be repined. I'm sure you need other specific crimp pins and tools to to so. Can I replace it with 0.1" molex connectors and a bunch of wires, since I'll be doing the other ones and have the tools and supplies ?

#130 5 years ago

While I wait for the connectors to arrive, here's a fun mystery. My new shooter assembly seems too short. I believe it's a universal size (7-7/8 inches rod) and I think I installed it correctly, but I miss 2cm.
Shooter rod.jpg
I tossed away the rusty original one, and didn't take pictures of that specific part. Opinions ?

#132 5 years ago

Oh boy ... Well I threw the original away a few weeks ago, so there's no chance to get that one back. As far as I can tell, no retailer is carrying it.

You say 1/4 inch, but I need at least 3/4 additional inch. I could remove the small spring in front of the beehive, but the knob would bang against it.

I feel a bit bad about it. It was stupid of me to not match the two rods ...

#134 5 years ago

Lesson definitely learned.

Now, is it ok if I replace the outside spring with a dampening pad ? It would allow me to get that a-bit-less-than-an-inch back. Just thinking, you know ...

#135 5 years ago

So, I replaced the exterior spring with a small white silicone ring (Titan) and stuffed a bit the rubber tip. The ring looks nice with the beehive, the tip is just a bit wobbly but I'll find a way to secure it better. It makes a bang if I pull the plunger all the way, but half-pulled (no need for more actually) is fine.

It'll do, but I'd be happy to find the correct length rod.

#136 5 years ago

I pulled the boards out of the machine to assess how many connectors related material I would need and work on it when I'll get the materials.

I couldn't do it with the rectifier board, as you can see :
Rectifier Board 1.jpg
Rectifier Board 2.jpg

Seems rather hacky to me, but I'm certainly not an expert. Should I leave it like that and just replace the connectors on the bottom of the board ?

The three square things at the back must be heatsinks. They were pressed against a metal plate and there was some white residue. I suppose it's thermal paste and that I should add some new paste when putting the board back.

#138 5 years ago

Ugly indeed, and it means you can't remove it and you have to make the soldering job while leaning inside the cabinet, right ?

Regarding the rest of the connectors, I read that they should make a tight seal to avoid future corrosion, so I'll probably buy new housings for the connectors because some are slightly warped. In that case, do you guys just cut the wires (and strip them again) or do you painstakingly remove each pin from the old housing ?

To stay on the same subject, should I bother redoing the connector on the displays ? Two of them are not showing every number, but I didn't investigate the cause yet.

#140 5 years ago

Oh, and that thing literally fell of the rectifier board when I touched it.
That thing.jpg
I should probably worry about it and replace it. What is it by the way (some kind of capacitor i would guess) ?

#142 5 years ago

Does it need to have exactly the same specifications ? I'll order a few things from the following retailer and they only have this :
http://www.flipper-passion.com/product_info.php?cPath=50_153&products_id=3911&osCsid=080a6e760f76ea397be81f5a4ce453ca

#144 5 years ago

That's alright, I bought the correct one in the store where I bought my (many) under-playfield fuses, here in Paris.

1 week later
#145 5 years ago

I started working today on the boards headers unsoldering/soldering. It's rather unpleasant I must say.
Here's the first header I soldered. It looks rather dirty. Can I continue like that or should I do better ? (How ?)

Soldering 1.jpg

#147 5 years ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

You could remove some of the flux and crap between solder pads ...

What product should I use for the cleaning ? Isopropyl alcohol is surprisingly hard to find in France, so anything else ?

#150 5 years ago
Quoted from rcbrown316:

rubbing alcohol works but dulls the finish

I can't say I really care about the finish of electronic cards, inside the machine where I'll hardly ever look once I'm done with the work. Then maybe I shouldn't care about a bit of crap or flux excess in the first place. A good thing that I'm really slow and didn't do anything yet ...

On a totally unrelated subject, I've been wondering about the two pinholes below the flippers. There's no pins on my machine, and I don't know if there's supposed to be ones, or if those holes are just there to help align the flippers (if so, with or without the rubbers ?).

#153 5 years ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

The pins could have fallen out. I would align without the rubber, I don't think the pins were tall enough to reach the rubber or they would cut into it with use.

But should I make new permanent pins ? I don't believe the flippers need that kind of back support during regular play.

#159 5 years ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

I would align without the rubber

Quoted from vid1900:

with the rubber on

As Shakespeare would say : To (rub)be(r), or not to (rub)be(r), that is the question.
Don't worry about it, Hamlet, use a straightedge !

#161 5 years ago

My Nine Ball came with Gottlieb flippers, but I didn't get to try them before I changed the flipper assemblies. I also inadvertently bought Williams flippers and had to buy another set of classic Stern/Bally ones. So I've seen them all, but I'll just keep it as originally intended.

#165 5 years ago

The header removal from all the boards is slowly but surely driving me mad. The last row resisted all my attempts, despite removing the plastic bits and reflowing the pins with "fresh" solder. I ended up pulling a few pins cold with pliers, only to discover it took the metal pad away with them (top side). How do I fix it ? Maybe the pads under the boards are enough (I know it won't) ?

#167 5 years ago

Top side.jpg
Back side.jpg

#170 5 years ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

What are you using for soldering iron and desoldering tool? The pads in the last pic look like they didn't get hot enough.

It's a 30 watts iron with a flat head (I seem to have lost the pointy head). I'm not sure what you mean by desoldering tool. I use desoldering braid if that's what you mean. I didn't remove the excess solder yet on the pads on the second picture, but it's not an issue when the pins are removed. When they're still on, that's another story ...

Quoted from rcbrown316:

need to see the top side unless doo knows theres no traces up there but I don't see pulled foil in these pics

The top side is the first picture (I cut short the pins to remove the plastic casing), and the holes 3 and 4 from the right definitely lost their metallic pads. What you see is a lighter shade of the green whatever-material the board is made of.

#172 5 years ago

That's funny, I read everywhere people praising soldering braid as the second coming of Jesus, over the solder pump that send solder flying all over your body. Besides, some of those pins will not get their solder to melt, even when trying to put some new solder over it to bond.

#174 5 years ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

A good temperature controlled soldering iron I think would really help too.

Despite the trend I see on this site, I don't have the intention to buy another pinball in the short or medium term, and I don't have the room for it anyways. I could buy a (cheap) 40 watts iron if that is what it takes (tell me if it does), but I don't feel like investing yet some more money on a tool I would not use after that specific work.

I know I'm not making things easy for me, but I'm fed up with throwing the little money I have on this machine. All these little expenses add up and I have to slow it down. I was surprised by how much all those little connectors that I didn't plan to replace at first actually cost me.

#176 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Solder Braid or Desoldering Pump is not an either/or situation.
There will be times when either is needed.

I'll definitely get a desoldering pump. Will a 40 watts iron also help me with those hard to melt solder "volcanoes" around the pins, over my current 30 watts iron ?

What about my metallic pads issue ? Are the ones on the back of the board enough or should they be on both sides to avoid solder to overflow ? If so, is there a simple homemade fix or do I have to buy some specific replacement pads ?

#178 5 years ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

There's nothing connected to those two pads topside so I wouldn't worry about them.

Then I'm very tempted to remove the remaining pins the same way and not worry about ripping those topside pads. In fact I might do it with all the remaining 0.156" header pins I have to replace (the 0.1" ones are way easier to remove by the usual melting way).

I'll still wait for a second opinion though before doing the operation.

#181 5 years ago
Quoted from rcbrown316:

Option 4: sell me your nine-ball

Nice try but I put too much work and money on it to sell it now. It is my favourite pinball machine and it's no coincidence that I bought that specific machine. I wouldn't have bothered (myself and my wife) for any other one. I know I'll have to go all the way no matter how tedious it is.

Quoted from dothedoo:

3) Buy the necessary tools for the job

You gave me lots of useful advices since I started this restoration dothedoo, but boy do each one hurt my wallet, and some of my sanity !

#186 5 years ago
Quoted from Classic_Stern:

The pins are used to support the ball when it hits the classic stern flipper mech and bat. It makes it so it does not "push" back on the metal stop piece and jam the flipper. Now I raise them up when I do a rebuild so it does not matter but that was what the pin was for.

Oh, so I should make new one and put them on permanently ? I installed brand new flipper assemblies, but they are classic stern reproduction (from Pinball Life), so they should require the same kind of support.

#189 5 years ago

So, I didn't follow any of your recommendations guys. I didn't get a desoldering pump, and the braid did the job just fine. I also just bought a 40 watts iron, and those 10 additional watts were all that I was missing, and things went (rather) smoothly.

I finished those damned connectors, and at point I wondered if this was not a joke you make to newbies like me : "Yeah man, you have to redo ALL the connectors ! "

Anyways, it fixed the odd behaviour, but the machine still seems to have many issues, and not exactly what I reported in this (edited) post earlier. I'll report again after more thorough investigations.

#191 5 years ago

Something blows the underplayfield fuse. When doing the test mode, the 14th solenoid doesn't fire, and the fuse blows after solenoid 17 fires.

The manual says the 14th is the drop target n°6, but it's solenoid fires correctly in 13th position.

It seems the loop drop target (firing in 17th position when in test mode, while the manual says 18th) will also blow the fuse when activating in game.

Both solenoid have correct resistance when tested.

While in game, and when the ball goes in the lock area and all targets are dropped in sequence, the target 6 will sometimes drop with its solenoid firing repeatedly, freezing the game but not blowing the fuse. The fuse will then blow when restarting the game. I don't know what to make of it.

Edit : See later post for an update.

#192 5 years ago
Quoted from rcbrown316:

for those you will need to replace all the wires in each harness with 16G braided copper wire with black vinyl sleeve

Well, if I must ...

Naughty imp ...

#193 5 years ago

While I wait for your suggestions, I have another puzzling issue with the flippers. When they're up (from a starting position aligned with the rails and the pins pressing against the rubbers), their rubbers are pressing hard against the edge of the rails, denting the rubbers and pushing back the flippers when the smaller coils take over at the end-of-stroke, making the flippers jerk between their two coils, which I assume is not good.

After checking various videos of this pinball, I can safely say my flippers can't rest at what would be their normal up resting position. What's wrong ?

#194 5 years ago

An update on the fuse blowing issue :

During test mode, the knocker, which should be activated in 3rd position, is only fired after all the others and not in sequence with the others. That should explain the shift between the manual and what I witness.

The 14th solenoid which is not fired is actually the flipper-enable relay. It works when I hold the two flippers buttons during the sequence. So everything is fine up until the 17th coil is activated (the loop drop target), then the fuse blows. Target 6 coil works during testing, but there's the weird behaviour in-game I described earlier.

Loop target coil has the correct resistance and the corresponding driver transistor on the solenoid board reads OK. Should I cut one end of the coil diode to test it ? Something else ?

#196 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I would just replace the diode.
They can be flaky.
It's the same effort to clip one leg and measure it, as it would be to just replace such a commonly failed component.

With the weekend coming, I probably won't be able to buy a new one before Monday. Is there anything else I should check or is the diode the most probable culprit for the fuse blowing ?

I'm also curious to hear your opinion on my flippers problem.

#198 5 years ago

Left flipper in up position.jpg

Maybe it's a matter of fine tuning, but right now it doesn't work at all.

#202 5 years ago

My whole flipper assemblies are brand new, classic stern reproductions from Pinball Life.

#204 5 years ago

Besides, my issue is that I'm starting to get resistance from the rails as the flippers are just reaching horizontal position.

#207 5 years ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

You can also try to move the flipper assy. so the bushing that sticks up through the playfield hole is as close to the outhole as you can get it, farthest away from the inlane rail.
I've only installed one Pinball Life flipper assy. and it was in my Quicksilver, which doesn't have as much of the flipper behind the inlane rail. Maybe PBL's holes are aligned a little differently in the base plate. You may need to turn the mech a few degrees and drill new mounting holes to accomplish this.

Yeah, I'll try that. Since I was making a neat graphical explanation while you were posting, I'll post it anyways to make sure anyone interested can understand.

Side rails pressure.jpg

#211 5 years ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

Pull the flipper bats and take a photo of the playfield holes so we can see where the bushings line up.

Too late, I'm already screwing the assemblies to a better offset position. The brushings were pretty well centered, if already a bit on the lower sides of the holes.

Quoted from vid1900:

Or, **gasp**, put Williams flipper bats in instead.

Burn that heretic !

#212 5 years ago

Alright, the flippers issue is officially solved. I just screwed the assemblies in a way that makes the brushings touch the lower part of their respective holes. It definitely made me notice how the distance between the rails and the holes on each sides are a bit different, making the flippers area not exactly symmetrical. Oh well, that'll do, it's really not that much.

Back to coils and fuses now. Is there a simple way to disconnect a coil to see if it's the source of my troubles, or does it necessarily involve cutting then resoldering ?

#215 5 years ago
Quoted from Classic_Stern:

Yea, Nineball has a problem with the metal wire in the wrong spot. The hole where it was drilled. Even on my NOS field this was a problem. You can fill and fix but it is tough because of the right location is right next to the size of the hole. Bend it forward but I would not limit range. All Nineball's I have seen which is probably 15 have this same problem.

I managed to fine tune the brushing placements and I'm very happy with the result.

#216 5 years ago

Regarding the underplayfield fuse blowing, the plot thickens.

I was wrong about the knocker. It is firing in 3rd position during the self test. It also does later, apart from the main sequence. The thing happening is that when I launch the self test (through the backbox J3 shorting because the coin door test button doesn't work), the first coil (left slingshot) doesn't fire during the first run, but it does in subsequent runs. Go figure ...

I disconnected the loop target coil, and the fuse would blow repeatedly after the bumper coil fires, during the first or second run of the sequence. I disconnected the bumper coil, and the fuse would blow at some other point. I'm running out of fuses again, I guess I should have bought them by the hundreds. They are 1,25 amp slow blow, so no issue with the fuse value itself.

Suggestions ?

#218 5 years ago

Might I inquire what it does (how, where, why) ?

#221 5 years ago

Thanks vid, I'll look into it.

I'm still confused about what makes my fuse blow. Were the loop target coil, the bumper coil and now some other coil all faulty (resistance OK, so diode related maybe) ? Will I have to disconnect every single coil and reconnect them one by one, doing a self-test between each reconnection, or am I dealing with a more general issue with some other part of the machine ?

#223 5 years ago

I'm sure I'll eventually find the source of the problem, but so far my investigations just made things more confusing to me.

I've followed good advices given to me here, read the classic Bally/Stern repair guide and narrowed down the types off issues I might be dealing with, but in the end I'm a bit at loss about the logic of what's going on and what my next course of action should be.

#225 5 years ago
Quoted from lb45:

Hi Aka, i'm not a professional but i restored 4 classics sterns , included a Nineball.
Ready to help .
Please , could you summarize again (sorry) the situation.
Does the fuse blow when the J2 connector is connected, or j5 is connected, on the driver board.
Do you have a DMM ?
Let's me inform ; i'm not so far...
Lionel

Thanks for your proposition to help. You're not far from me indeed.

To quickly summarize, the underplayfield fuse blows repeatedly in self-test after the 18th coil (loop drop target) is fired. When that coil is disconnected, the fuse blows repeatedly after the 7th coil (bumper) is fired. When that coil is also disconnected, something else blows the fuse. That's were I stopped because of a lack of fresh fuses.

As suggested by vid1900, I ordered a 1A fuse breaker (the fuse under the playfield is 1,25A) which will allow me to perform more tests without worrying about being conservative. I'll post my results when I'm done. I'll see on the occasion about the J2 and J5 connectors.

If anyone has any action to suggest, please do so.

#226 5 years ago

So, I got this fuse breaker to temporarily replace the underplayfield fuse :

http://www.audiophonics.fr/schurter-disjoncteur-rearmable-p-5641.html

It's 1 amp, while the machine calls for a 1,25 amp fuse. I connect the breaker tabs to the playfield tabs with alligator clamps.

But if I activate the loop target coil through the solenoid board, while it will blow a regular fuse, it won't "blow" the fuse breaker. Not very useful to see what's wrong with my machine. Is 1 amp still to high for the fuse breaker. That's the lowest value I could find. Is there a way to prime it ? The top button doesn't click into a primed position, it just has a spring.

#228 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Breakers are usually Slo-Blo.
Where you using fast-blo fuses?

No, Slo-Blo fuses. That would have been a great way to solve all my issues.

#230 5 years ago

If I put my meter on 20mA, it's wildly fluctuating. What should I read ?

#232 5 years ago

Alright, with the meter on 10a, when doing the self-test mode, a couple of coils (bumper and loop target) draw sometimes a bit more than 1,25, around 1,5.

#233 5 years ago

When I bought this pinball, there was a 2,5A fuse under the playfield. Even though it clearly says to use a 1,25A fuse, should I just put a 2,5A one back and just be done with this ? Or why not keep using that 1A fuse breaker, it seems to go fine with it.

#235 5 years ago

It's a bit late here to play a game (I live in an apartment) so I'll give it a try tomorrow.

Quoted from vid1900:

There is 43v at the coils, right?

That question is a bit cryptic for me, could you please elaborate ?

#237 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Sorry about that.
Meter on DC volts, what voltage are you reading with a lead on both coil lugs?

Right, I'll check it tomorrow before testing a few games.

#240 5 years ago
Quoted from MikeO:

This one should work. You will ultimately want to define/confirm the length you need with the proper barrel spring installed at the handle.
ebay.com link
If you don't find something let me know as I have a few used spares in the length you need. You are looking for one from a 50's or 60's Gottlieb game that had the beehive shooter housing. It is the added depth of the beehive housing that requires the longer shooter rod.

Your ebay link seems to be expired. Anyways, I DIYed my way through it by extending the rod with a wooden tip inside the rubber tip and some black tape. It's not as bad as it sounds, it works perfectly and it's (almost) unnoticeable.

I thank you for your offer, but I would not ask you to go through the trouble of sending some item oversea. Besides, I'm happy I found a way to use that shiny new rod I bought. It would be a shame to just toss it away.

#241 5 years ago

Voltage test : when I set my meter on V 20, one lead on both coil lugs (any coil), the other on the ground braid, I read 0,22.

What's the diagnosis doctor ?

#243 5 years ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

Set your meter on a higher setting, 50V or higher and test again.

Higher on my meter is 200V. I'm not at home right now but I think it read 0 on that setting.

I played a few games, with the fuse breaker, and it went ok (apart from a few things to tweak).
No burning smell.

#245 5 years ago

I get 46V.

#247 5 years ago

5 pages, almost 250 posts, a good chunk of it about endless headaches on coils, diodes, schematics, and in the end I just had to change a fuse (granted, with a bigger one) ? It's as funny as it is sad ...

To be sure I understand it well, those couple of coils that draw 1,5A shouldn't do that, but it doesn't endanger the boards, so it's alright to just slap a 2 or 2,5A fuse under the playfield and forget about the reason why those coils do what they do ?

#249 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

The problem with a 40 year old piece of commercial equipment, is that you don't know what the 100 other techs that have worked on the game have done to it.
"techs" may have swapped coils, diodes, parts, "stolen" power from other sources in the game, bypassed safety features in the game.....
I've seen where the transformer was incorrectly swapped from another game.
I've seen where someone gathered every broken circuit board they had and put them into a single "project" game for sale.
I've seen where someone sprayed WD40 into every coil, gumming up every moving part on a game.
So, since "we can't see it from here", us internet techs have to be pretty careful in doling out the online advice....better safe than sorry.

Of course I'm not blaming you or any other person that tried to help me on this thread, and you made the correct calls regarding my machine. I'm grateful for all of you and certainly hope you'll keep giving me advices on the few little kinks that are left to fix.

My previous comment was a reflection on the fact that I've seen on this forum so many joking about people selling non-working pinballs and saying it "just needs a new fuse", that I didn't think I would actually end up just having to change a fuse to fix what appeared like a mountain of issues.

In retrospect, it blows my mind that I bought this machine with a 2,5A fuse on it, and promptly changed it to a 1,25A after I started to work on it and got more knowledgeable. By trying to do things right, I created a headache for myself.

Hopefully, we're getting near the end of this thread as I'm sure some of you are starting to get bored or annoyed with my pinball repair adventure ...

1 week later
#250 5 years ago

I'm getting there. I'm still tweaking things to make the pinball play smoothly, but I'm already having a lot of fun.

Since yesterday, I lost the GI, both on the playfield and in the backbox. The rest works, including the inserts lights. Everything seems plugged in, no burning on the new connectors. Fuses ok.
Ideas ?

#252 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

What is the voltage on TP4 of the rectifier board? (remember to put your meter on AC for this measurment)

Hmmm, I'm not sure where I should put my leads ...

#254 5 years ago

Yeah, I read 0 on TP4 (various values on the others).

#256 5 years ago

So, with still one lead to the ground, I read a voltage only on one side (lower) of the 20A fuse clip.

#258 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Fuse is bad, or fuse clips are bad.

Is there a way to determine which is the culprit ?
Can a fuse clip go bad all of a sudden ?
On the other hand, there's still resistance on the fuse.

#259 5 years ago

Alright, I take it back, the fuse opened in half when I tried to remove it, so I guess that one's bad ...

#261 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

There should be no resistance on the fuse.
Your meter should read it like if you touched the leads to each other.

Fluctuating values ? It must have been what I read at a glance and mistook it for a solid resistance value. Anyways, the fuse is properly broken now that I snapped it in half.

Oh man, I cross my fingers now that all my future issues will be fixed with a fuse replacement.

#263 5 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

You should just rebuild your entire rectifier board including the fuse holders.

Getting on it right away !

By the way, I'll put on my will that if I should die of insanity because of this machine, I'll be buried with it. So you guys can forget about your evil schemes to put your hands on my precious Nine Ball. You'll never get it !

#265 5 years ago

I actually already read your guide some time ago vid, and made a few updates on my rectifier board (new header pins and connectors, new varistor, fresh thermal paste). But what I mainly got from the long list of things you advocate to do, is that if that board really gives me trouble, I'll buy a new one.

1 month later
#268 5 years ago

Edit : Scrap all that !

#269 5 years ago

I deleted my previous (long) message because in the end, it is a stupid mechanical problem.

The big left target bank fails at pulling up all the targets when most of them are down. But when the playfield is in service position (vertical, slightly upside down), all is fine. Gravity, right ?

I did a thorough cleaning of the mechanism a couple of month ago because it was bathing in soot (from all the coils in there I guess). I believe adding any kind of lubricant inside a pinball machine is not recommended. Besides, all of the moving parts in there are fairly loose.

Any thoughts on that ?

#270 5 years ago

I'll bump the thread with an additional issue (but please have a look at the previous post) :

The pinball throws a ball in the shooter lane while one is already in play. But it does it only once per new ball. If I drain the ball in play and use the given one, the machine won't give me an other one. Then on the next ball, it does it again.

#273 5 years ago
Quoted from Superchicken:

Check your trough switches and the 3 ball lock switches in the Ball Lock Lane. The trough switches can be flaky and the lock switches are hard to adjust properly.

I spent some time a month ago adjusting the switches to rule out this cause, and they are properly adjusted, as far as I can tell. I didn't dismantle the little block containing the two switches under the central drain hole, but they click fine when balls sit on it, and I assume the inside is well protected from dust.

The other regular switches contacts were dirty and I couldn't clean them with just rubbing paper between the close contacts, so I used my nails to scrap them. Could I have damaged and rendered them unreliable ?

Quoted from Superchicken:

Take all the balls out and push all the drop targets up and go into switch test mode. There should be no closed switches. If no switches are closed, take the apron off and test each switch in trough using a ball. If any switch doesn't register, the program can lose track of balls in play.

I don't get how this test mode works. The manual says that if a switch is closed, it's number will flash on the player score display and remain so until the thing is fixed. Well, when my machine fails at pushing up the left drop targets after pulling them down during the test (see other issue on post #269), letting quite a few switches closed, nothing unusual is notified on the player score display ...

#275 5 years ago
Quoted from Superchicken:

You need to do the tests with the switch test mode running. The display will show only the last switch closed, so you need to test one at a time. Clicks don't count. Also, bang on the playfield and see if any switches register with the movement.

I'll play dumb but I'm not sure I'm following you. The manual doesn't detail how to go specifically into switch test mode. It is implied that after pressing the self-test button, the machine goes into the different modes one after the other. I can attest that there's a mode going on (allegedly the switch test one) after the solenoids test and before it does the solenoids test again. If so, it just goes too fast, as I exit the solenoid test and enter the switch test with all the left bank targets down and their switches closed (because of the other unresolved issue), then back to solenoids test mode 10 seconds later. Or am I missing something ?

It should also be noted again that my self-test button doesn't work and I have to short the J3 pin 1 in order to initiate the self-test.

#277 5 years ago
Quoted from Superchicken:

The test switch is closed 5 times to enter switch test mode. The test button wire is a straight shot to the MPU. If your J3 Pin 1 connector is good then the fault most likely is in the connector block for the coin door:
Coin door block.PNG

Can I short 5 times in a row the J3 pin 1 to enter the switch test mode, or do I necessarily have to redo the connector ?

By the way, I AM dumb because it does say in the manual how to enter the switch test mode, as you showed me.

#279 5 years ago

I have fixed the "extra" ball issue.

The switch test allowed me to see that the shooter lane switch did not register when I plunged the ball as soon as it is fed into the lane, as I enjoy rapidly shooting the ball just as it arrives in the shooter lane. The machine then give another ball a few seconds later, thinking something prevented the ball to reach the shooter lane.

It was tricky to see the issue since the switch registers if the ball sits just half a second in the lane. I tightened the gap of the switch to be more reactive, but just letting the ball sit in the lane for an instant before plunging will do the trick no matter what.

Thanks Superchicken for your valuable input. Now, if anybody has any idea about the gamebraking problem I detailed in post #269, I'll be glad to hear it, because I assuredly don't know what to do ...

#281 5 years ago
Quoted from Superchicken:

This is a common issue with Stern drop targets. The reproduction targets aren't exactly right. To fix it the plunger needs to pull the target up just a little bit higher. To achieve this the plunger on the big coil needs to be shorten slightly. Grind off about an 1/8 inch (3 mm) off of the end. This allows the coil to pull the target higher to set them.

My targets are originals, as far as I can tell.

Besides, when the bank fails at reseting (when there's 5, 6 or more targets down), the targets don't lift for even a mm. There's just a tremor throughout the targets.

I may have an idea of the cause, but I didn't think much of it because I got the machine like that, and after getting it running, it worked well for a couple of weeks. I probably should have mentioned it earlier, and I realise now it might be a facepalm moment for some, but here we go :

Big coil.jpg

As you can see, there's no sleeve inside the coil, and there's an indent on the coil shaft from the arm of the rod that goes into the shaft. Could it weaken the coil ?

#284 5 years ago
Quoted from Superchicken:

The sleeve is there. The older ones are aluminum. If they are original targets they need to be replaced. The tabs are most likely worn down. Make sure nothing is binding by setting the targets by hand. The coil may be cooked. Take it off and if you can't get the sleeve out, replace the coil and use a new plastic sleeve. The coil may be lock on from fried transistor on the solenoid driver board.

If the coil was cooked or had a bad transistor, it would not work at all. But it works fine and vigorously up until about a couple of targets are left standing up. I'm talking about any combination of targets. There's no worn tab and any target can be pulled up, by the coil or by hand, and sits fine on it's tab.

For example, the bank could start to tremor but not reset when only targets 1 and 4 are still up, or only 2 and 7 still up, or just target 8 still up, but have no issue with any of those targets if three, four, or more targets, in any configuration, are still up.

My thought was that the magnetic field created in the coil is weaker by the damaged sleeve and has a harder time "grabbing" the tip of the rod in that area of the sleeve when the load becomes too important.

#286 5 years ago

I switched the damaged sleeve with the one that was on one of the smaller targets bank, and it fixed the problem ! Except that now the smaller targets bank is the one having the issue, but now I know what the deal is and I'm kind of relieved. I just have to buy a new sleeve to replace the damaged one.

Stay tuned for the next (inevitable) problem on the same bat-time, same bat-channel !

#287 5 years ago

My parents bought for my birthday 3 month ago a reproduction backglass for my Nine Ball. While the reproduction is rather good, it doesn't have the same colors (darker blue, whites that appear more grey and plain) and in general doesn't fit as well as the original on the machine.

My original backglass lost some paint, especially in the yellows, hence the reason why I wanted a reproduction, but I'm thinking of putting it back, with less lights on the back, in particular where the paint is gone. I'd also like to put lights that produce less heat, to avoid furthering the paint loss (the backglass is not flaking, apart from what is already gone, but I believe heat would not do good).

I know I can put 47 type bulbs instead of the 44, but can I also put leds ? From what I understand, they flicker unless some modification is done to the lamp driver on some card, but is it also the case for the lamps in the backbox ? I'd rather keep it simple.

#290 5 years ago

Thanks for the link Superchicken, but I'd rather buy them them in France to avoid insane shipping costs.
This retailer sells a few types (and the coil sleeves I need):
http://www.ecflipp.fr/fr/23-leds?
But he has only the filtered 44 type in stock in white. I believe they'll be fine ...

I may end up making an order from Bay Area Amusement because they're the only one to have the loop bullseye drop target that is missing from my machine, and those damn small rivets I can't seem to find anywhere.. They also sell various leds :
http://bayareaamusements.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=LBL
In case the leds from the french retailer are not the most suited ones, which ones from BAA would better suit the the back of the backglass ?

Yeah, I read this thread yesterday, which prompted me to consider leds for my backglass. I think I won't bother with an adapter for a few bulbs. If leds don't work, I'll put regular incandescent 47 types bulbs in.

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