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(Topic ID: 123214)

Restoring a Nine Ball


By aKa

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 293 posts
  • 18 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Classic_Stern
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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There have been 43 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

stn-a382-1.jpg
Big_coil.jpg
Test_switch.png
Coin_door_block.png
Multimeter.jpg
Right flipper assembly.jpg
Left flipper assembly.jpg
fuse_breaker.jpg
Flipper assemblies placement.jpg
Right slingshot switches.jpg
Left slingshot switches.jpg
Flippers assemblies wiring.jpg
Side_rails_pressure.jpg
stn_assembly.jpg
277715-i.jpg
Left_flipper_in_up_position.jpg

There are 293 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 6.
#51 5 years ago

Rubber addendum : can a 3 inches rubber (the biggest Titan silicone rubber) fit what the manual calls for 3,5 inches, or is it too much of a stretch ?

#52 5 years ago

Alright, so I have a stupid question that goes back to my first post in this thread. The "1 1/4 amp" fuse that is advised on the warning under the playfield is a bit ambiguous to me, am I supposed to read 0.25 amp or 1.25 amp ?

#53 5 years ago

1.25 Amp Slo Blow. I'd recommend you go to the manual and order 5 of every value in the game.

Edit: Shipping is more than fuses, so get all you need in 1 purchase.

#54 5 years ago

The thing is, I've gone several time through the manual (the one I found online, I don't have the original) just to make sure, and I could'nt find any mention of the fuses.

Quoted from Curbfeeler:

Shipping is more than fuses, so get all you need in 1 purchase.

I know a store in Paris where I can find fuses of any values, so that's not an issue for me.
I managed to order things in 2 purchases (1 done, from the U.S., 1 to go, from France, when I'll be sure I've catalogued all that I need).

#55 5 years ago

Looking at other Stern games they are:

F1 = 10A
F2 = 3/4A slow blow
F3 = 4A
F4 = 5A or 7A slow blow depending on the game, best to go with 5A
F5 = 20A

#56 5 years ago

Your opinion people on the following :

One of the wooden leg support inside the cabinet is splitting, should I replace it or will it hold with the bolts tightly screwed in ? I'm sure you'll say yes, but take my extreme laziness into consideration.
Leg support.jpg

There's a slight mildew smell coming from the cabinet (rather from the front), which I've been treating with regular vodka spraying for a couple of days (don't laugh, I've read this advice here on pinside). Should I be worried about further mildew deterioration and take a more radical action ?
Cabinet bottom 1.jpg
Cabinet bottom 2.jpg

#57 5 years ago
Quoted from aKa:

Your opinion people on the following :
One of the wooden leg support inside the cabinet is splitting, should I replace it or will it hold with the bolts tightly screwed in ? I'm sure you'll say yes, but take my extreme laziness into consideration.
Leg support.jpg (Click image to enlarge)
There's a slight mildew smell coming from the cabinet (rather from the front), which I've been treating with regular vodka spraying for a couple of days (don't laugh, I've read this advice here on pinside). Should I be worried about further mildew deterioration and take a more radical action ?
Cabinet bottom 1.jpg (Click image to enlarge)
Cabinet bottom 2.jpg (Click image to enlarge)

I've read that people like to upgrade to this style:

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=144

From its design, it appears it would spread the load out to the outside boards and take it off the corner piece.

For a home environment, especially with carpet sliders on the levelers (like I have) I can't imagine that my cabinets get much tension in the legs and cabinet corners, so it's low on my priority list to upgrade. But I have the new brackets (5 sets of 4) in case I ever want to put my games in public, like a show for example, then I would upgrade the brackets for sure to be safe.

-mof

#58 5 years ago

Those are great. Too bad I already made my order from pinball life (currently shipping). The shipping across the Atlantic is too costly to make an other order from them. I'll see if I can find them closer to my home ...

#59 5 years ago

If anyone has a scan of the playfield, it would be appreciated. I really need the center to lower part of the playfield area between the slings up to the wizard. Someone did a poor touchup, and then covered it all with Mylar, so I know I will lose what is left when I remove that Mylar.

Thanks!

#60 5 years ago

Hi bznhvx,

I can't do a scan but I can try to make a good picture of that area on my playfield. It's in a rather good shape, and who knows, I might need it after I remove the mylar myself.

I'll do it tomorrow if I can get myself in a good spot to take the picture. It's a bit of a mess restoring a pinball when you live in a single room ...

Oh, and it shouldn't stop anyone else from providing a scan if possible.

#61 5 years ago

What I normally do when I can't scan and must use photos is I put a few coins on the playfield on the outside of the art I'm trying to photograph and also a steel ruler. Then when I'm in photoshop later I can adjust the image for any skew or warp using the coins and ruler as a guide. A scan is better, of course.

#62 5 years ago

If I cannot get a good scan from anyone, then my thinking is to scan my existing board to establish size, and "overlay" corrections based on photos on a Photoshop layer above the base. I should be able to align the new art to what is left of the old so that the alignment is good.

Thoughts?

#63 5 years ago

Yes, that will work for sure.

Also I know it's something new to learn, but most people who do restoration to get very professional results scan the playfield and trace the artwork in a program like Inkscape to make it vector art. When doing this I also find the idea above about the coins and steel rule to be helpful so you can get scale 100% accurate so you don't end up printing it the wrong size.

#64 5 years ago

Hey bznhvx, I think I've been a bit optimistic when I said I would get you a picture today. I still have a lot to do (including cleaning the pf) before I can get to a suitable position to make a clean picture.

I also agree with Curbfeeler's solution being the best, even though it's a bit of work and some new skills to acquire.

#65 5 years ago

Thanks Curbfeeler and aKa! No rush on the pictures... I have several other restorations in line ahead of this one.

Mac

1 week later
#66 5 years ago

I'm going to replace the flippers assemblies tomorrow, and do some soldering.
A couple of questions :

Are the wires that connect the flipper coils to the eos switch always on the same two lugs of the coils (when looking from the same perspective), as it seems to be the case on this picture ? (There's a lose wire but he goes on the switch lug)
Flippers assemblies wiring.jpg

My four leaf switches inside the slingshots are not wired the same way. There's also a capacitor (half-cut) on one side and not on the others. What should I do ?
Left slingshot switches.jpg
Right slingshot switches.jpg

As a matter of fact, where should there be capacitors ? There' one on a stand-up target, one on the horseshoe loop gate, but none on the spinner, one on the dead bumper, but none on the active one. And apparently one on one of the slingshots switches.

#67 5 years ago
Quoted from aKa:

Are the wires that connect the flipper coils to the eos switch always on the same two lugs of the coils (when looking from the same perspective), as it seems to be the case on this picture ? (There's a lose wire but he goes on the switch lug)

They SHOULD be, but you have a Gottlieb flipper coil on the left with a different configuration. You need to replace that with a Bally AQ-25-500 or Stern J-25-500 equivalent.

Quoted from aKa:

My four leaf switches inside the slingshots are not wired the same way. There's also a capacitor (half-cut) on one side and not on the others. What should I do ?

The MPU only needs one switch per slingshot. The second one is simply an extension of the first and is wired accordingly. Your switches are wired correctly. AFAIK, caps were not used on any slings, you can just clip it off completely.

Quoted from aKa:

As a matter of fact, where should there be capacitors ? There' one on a stand-up target, one on the horseshoe loop gate, but none on the spinner, one on the dead bumper, but none on the active one. And apparently one on one of the slingshots switches.

Caps on fast-react switches only, which are stand up targets and pop bumpers. However, Stern didn't use caps on their pops, only Bally did. Spinners seem like a fast-react switch, but in reality, the switch closes and there is tension on it for half a turn of the spinner, then it is open for half a turn -- plenty of time for the MPU to read the closure.

#68 5 years ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

They SHOULD be, but you have a Gottlieb flipper coil on the left with a different configuration. You need to replace that with a Bally AQ-25-500 or Stern J-25-500 equivalent.

Yes I have two brand new classic Stern assemblies. Should I wire them just like the current ones ?

#69 5 years ago
Quoted from aKa:

Yes I have two brand new classic Stern assemblies. Should I wire them just like the current ones ?

Looks like the one on the right is correct. If the blue wire is the same one that goes to the playfield fuse, then it's wired correctly.

Blue + 1 yellow wire from EOS switch to lug with banded end of diode
Other yellow wire from EOS switch to center lug
Return wire (green on one, orange on the other) to the lug with non-banded end of diode

#70 5 years ago

Thanks dothedoo for your useful advises.
My flippers assemblies are screwed at odd angles, when I can see aligned screw marks on the playfield to put the two assemblies straight in line.
Flipper assemblies placement.jpg

Since I'm putting new ones, should I place them straight ? Does it matter ?

#71 5 years ago

Ok you're replacing the entire flipper mechs, right? Those are Gottlieb mechs and they need to go....NOW! They can be mounted at any angle, doesn't matter.

#72 5 years ago
Quoted from aKa:

should I place them straight ? Does it matter ?

Yes. It looks nice.
Mof

#73 5 years ago

Alright, so I installed the new flipper assemblies, made the few solderings I had to do, and now the machine doesn't start. It powers up, but no sound or light anywhere on the playfield or backbox, except for the top right arrow insert.

What did I screw up ?

#74 5 years ago

Sounds like the 43V fuse on the rectifier blew. Can you post pics of your wiring?

#75 5 years ago

Here we go :

Left flipper assembly.jpg
Right flipper assembly.jpg

I also resoldered a loose wire on the big drop target bank (on one of the switches), replaced 3 capacitors and removed the capacitor on the slingshot leaf switch (see post #66).

I should add that I also removed the door to work on it and just replugged it without screwing to test the machine.

#76 5 years ago
Quoted from aKa:

Alright, so I installed the new flipper assemblies, made the few solderings I had to do, and now the machine doesn't start. It powers up, but no sound or light anywhere on the playfield or backbox, except for the top right arrow insert.
What did I screw up ?

I would say #4 on our list would answer the problem here.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-10-commandments-of-pinball-maintenance-what-you-should-never-do#post-1134265
-mof

4. "NEVER work on another part of the machine until you've verified that the Last Thing you worked on was a success!"

#77 5 years ago

Well, I tried to do all the soldering work at once, which wasn't that much anyways. The door thing is just a matter of unplugging and plugging back a molex thingy. Otherwise, I don't believe cleaning the playfield or painting the cabinet to be the source of my issue.

But I agree my machine is now in a worse working condition than it was before. I think it was almost unavoidable since all the work I've done on the machine was a new thing for me, and I'm quite uncomfortable with electronics.

#78 5 years ago

What is the status of fuse F4?

#79 5 years ago

F4 seems fine visually.

Can I test it with my multimeter ? I'm ignorant there too, and the manual is quite succinct.
What, where, how ?
Multimeter.jpg

#80 5 years ago

pull fuse out of holder. Set meter to continuity and put the leads on either side. if it buzzes, you've got continuity. if not, the fuse is bad and you replace it. Visual inspection *can* mean nothing.

#81 5 years ago

With game powered off, set meter to any of the ohms settings (lower left green section), red test lead in V/ohm/mA jack and black lead in COM. Put one lead on each end of fuse, meter should read 0 ohms.

#82 5 years ago

The meter says the fuse is OK.

#83 5 years ago

Check all the fuses then so we can rule out a power issue.

#84 5 years ago

All 6 fuses on the rectifier board check out fine. The one under the playfield still blows, but that's an issue we'll see later.

Any other fuses I'm not aware of ?

What's the next step ?

Thanks by the way for assisting me in this, it's my first pinball so I still have a lot to learn.

#85 5 years ago
Quoted from aKa:

All 6 fuses on the rectifier board check out fine. The one under the playfield still blows, but that's an issue we'll see later.
Any other fuses I'm not aware of ?
What's the next step ?
Thanks by the way for assisting me in this, it's my first pinball so I still have a lot to learn.

There can be one on the solenoid driver board "SDB" (depends on which version you have)
-mof

#86 5 years ago

Does the LED on the MPU (upper left on back wall of backbox) flash when you power up?
Test power on the board:
Meter on V- 20, black lead on metal back plate, red on TP5=5V and red on TP2=12V

#87 5 years ago
Quoted from mof:

There can be one on the solenoid driver board "SDB" (depends on which version you have)
-mof

I checked it. Not on mine.

#88 5 years ago

http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/ballyss/rep/index1.htm

Read and re-read (in all your spare time), and follow all the steps. Go top down.

This is the reference point many people will use when trying to help you.

=)
-mof

#89 5 years ago

Didn't read it mof but I already skimmed through it some time ago.

I found the issue, but I can't pinpoint the exact cause. The machine works (well, still a few quirks to fix later) when the backbox panel is open. I guess there's some kind of short-circuit going on when the panel is close, but I don't see where. Well at least I got to use my multimeter, yay !

#90 5 years ago

It's pretty tight in there. My guess is something's pushing on the MPU J4 connector. You'll need to repin all of the connectors and replace header pins if you want it to be reliable.

#91 5 years ago

Repin all the connectors ... that sounds sweet and fun !

Seriously, I think I'll pass on this one if I can, but I'll keep that in mind. Well that's what I said about the flippers and I changed them in the end.

I'm at the point where I'm eager to wrap this partial restoration up and play a game on the thing.

#92 5 years ago
Quoted from aKa:

I'm at the point where I'm eager to wrap this partial restoration up and play a game on the thing.

We've all felt that desire...
That moment of playing a good game will come. Patience is key. It may take you 5 or 20 steps to get there.
Keep turning rocks over and solve the issues one by one as they arise.
Make a list, and knock things off the list.
Open separate topics on Pinside for the problems that you need the most help with.
Re-read that guide (above) over and over in your spare time, and start to get familiar with all the systems.

-mof

#93 5 years ago

Nineball must be working all the way with classic stern parts. Any small perturbation to that can cause issues that may deter from the game. It deserves all the time you can put into it. GREAT GAME. One of the best.

#94 5 years ago

Capacitor question : I didn't notice it at first but the ones I bought in a specialised store (so the guy knew his thing and seemed to understand what I asked for) are marked .47K. I gave the guy the reference Vid gave me (.047uF) but there seems to be a missing 0 on mines, which I suppose is quite a different value. Was I given the wrong ones or am I missing something ?

#95 5 years ago
Quoted from aKa:

Capacitor question : I didn't notice it at first but the ones I bought in a specialised store (so the guy knew his thing and seemed to understand what I asked for) are marked .47K. I gave the guy the reference Vid gave me (.047uF) but there seems to be a missing 0 on mines, which I suppose is quite a different value. Was I given the wrong ones or am I missing something ?

Usually caps labled .47K means 470,000 PicoFarads. which is is equivalent to .047 uF (MicroFarad)

I think you have the right thing.

Mac

#96 5 years ago

OK thanks.

2 weeks later
#97 5 years ago

I'm back to work on my Nine Ball.

For starter, the speaker is buzzing when the machine is on. I also find the volume too high even at its minimum. Suggestions ?

#98 5 years ago

I'll continue with an old issue I'd like i'd like to fix.

There's still something that blows the under-playfield fuse. The rectifier board fuses are OK so my guess is a solenoid (or two) on the playfield are the cause. I've checked their resistance, including the ones in the left bank, and they're all fine.

The game is acting funky, especially the big left targets bank, when I start a game so it's hard to tell what coil is working and what other is making the fuse blow.

Funnily, and for whatever reason, I can't get the test mode to start, so that's also something ...

#99 5 years ago

The impossibility to start the diagnostic mode baffles me. I did it before, and the other buttons on the front are functionnal.

Anyways, there's two coils that are briefly energised during the beeping initialising sequence when I turn on the table. Is it normal or indicative of a problem with these two coils (the big target bank one and the loop drop target one) ? Can it be the cause of the under-playfield fuse blowing ?

#100 5 years ago
Quoted from aKa:

The impossibility to start the diagnostic mode baffles me. I did it before, and the other buttons on the front are functionnal.
Anyways, there's two coils that are briefly energised during the beeping initialising sequence when I turn on the table. Is it normal or indicative of a problem with these two coils (the big target bank one and the loop drop target one) ? Can it be the cause of the under-playfield fuse blowing ?

Check for a stuck closed switch in the matrix row/columns where the door test switch is... if it does not see the switch close, it's not going into test mode. I had the spinner switch closing on me when I raised the playfield. Also leave the apron off and watch the balls flow down the trough... I had a problem where after a ball or two, the next one would not always roll forward, causing a stuck condition after locking a ball in the left stack area.

As for the fuse blowing, are you sure you are using the right value, and is it SB (slow blow) ?

Just some things to check that are common issues on the old 9-Ball... -Mac

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