Hi Lambecka
(following test written not knowing Your post-6)

in post-1 and post-3 You write "Rest-Relay and 1-2-Reset-Relay and 3-4-Reset-Relay stay energized" --- does the Score-Motor constantly run ? - or does it run a short time - then stops ?
Do the 1-2-Reset-Relay and the 3-4-Reset-Relay ever "rhythmically actuate (and let go and actuate and let go ...)" ?

Your pin is in Game-Over - Switch-blue-2 is closed --- You start a game so the Coin-Relay pulls-in - Switch-blue-1 closes. The blue-3 pulls-in, closes its switch (blue-4) - is kept pulling due to blue-5-switches closed --- when all blue-5 switches open (as the Score-Drums have been stepped to Zero) --- motor runs to the end of a turn - blue-6 also opens.

Brown-X makes the motor to run, brown-Y makes the motor to run. Greetings Rolf

0Fan-Tas-Tic-Work-03 (resized).jpg

Hi Lambecka
check the "encircled rosa/pink" Switches. Greetings Rolf

0Fan-Tas-Tic-Work-06 (resized).jpg

Hi Lambecka
again - the JPG in post-7 - the blue-1,2,3,4,5 is happening --- as the Score-Drums are not stepped foreward to their Zero-Position:; Switch(es) blue-5 never open - so through "blue-4" the Reset-Relay is made pulling forever - so through brown-Y the motor is made to run forever.

What happens when You do before starting a new game: You do manually reset all Score-Drums to Zero - then You start a game - what happens.

It has been a busy day - I go to sleep - till tomorrow, greetings Rolf

Hi Lambecka +
this here https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/how-to-efficiently-ask-for-pinball-repair-help-em is good --- if the original poster does not write it in his post-1 - the question must be asked: "Did the pin ever run in Your possession - or did You buy it with the fault ?

Your post-6 is irritating - we may have several faults. I would like to work on "Start-up procedure".
The motor in Your pin is running forever - so You toggle-off the pin. The motor therefore stops in an non-defined position. You toggle-on the pin - does the motor runs a bit - then stops in "Home-Position (on the cam nearest to the real motor the switchstack plunges down). You then press the left flipper button and the lights (Playfield and Backbox) lite up - do You see the text "Game Over" lighted in the Backglass ? The Score-Drums are all on Zero --- You press the Credit-Button - the Replay-Relay pulls-in and the motor starts running - the Coin-Relay pulls-in - the Reset-Relay pulls-in - the Game-Over-Relay moves. The motor has been started - has been running - (of course all cams turn) - the cam nearest to the real motor is called Index-Cam - it does a turn of 180 degrees --- and in this turning at about 150 / 160 / 170 degrees: The Replay-Relay and the Coin-Relay quit pulling - do they ? Greetings Rolf

Hi Lambecka
Williams pins have the switches to control playfield and other functions - the switches in the returning connection: Coil - wire - switch - wire etc. ending on Transformer-lug-common-Yellow-is return-side. AND in the power-side-connection - Transformer - wire - fuse - wire to the coils: A "Switch on Game-Over-Relay to cut the Power-Side-Connection to plenty many relays" --- "Switch on Reset-Relay to cut many relays" - "Switch on Tilt-Relay to cut a bunch of relays". A playfield-feature fault can not show up in state "pin is in Game-Over" as the Switch on Game-Over-Relay is open (in state Game-Over). We then start a new game - this makes the Game-Over-Relay to actuate - its switch closes - but still the playfield fault cannot show up because during reset the Reset-Relay is pulling - its switch (on the power-side-connection) is open when the Reset-Relay is pulling.

You "fumble the Reset-Relay to quit pulling" - FAULTY the Ball-Index-Relay pulls-in - more faults show up.

Your text in post-15 pleases me - until "Reset-Relay keeps pulling".
Look here http://www.ipdb.org/files/820/Williams_1972_Fan_Tas_Tic_Operator_Manual.pdf on page-23 (ori-22) - Reset-Relay-Switch-C (this switch is the 'cut power-side-connection' switch) - have a good look at --- truely OPEN when the Relay is pulling (have the pin toggled-off, do manually activate the Reset-Relay - Switch MUST be wide OPEN) - check for a drop of solder - a doghair crap of wire - a stud bent making fauly always contact. Sneak-in a stripe of paper in-between the contact-points to make the switch permanent open.

Same page / Relay in the manual - Switch-A on Reset-Relay --- also have a good look at --- also sneak-in a stripe of paper.

You now have a stripe of paper in Switch-C and also in Switch-A on the Reset-Relay. Toggle-on and start a game. (The pin will not let You play (stripes of paper)) --- I am interested in "when the coin-relay and the replay-relay quit pulling - DOES the Reset-Relay also quit pulling ? Greetings Rolf

Hi Lambecka
strange - in Your test (You write about in post-17): The Replay-Relay does not pull-in --- hmm, did You wanted to write "Reset-Relay does not pull-in" ? (((I will be out for about two hours for some festivities - leaving home in about 2.25 hours from now))). Greetings Rolf

Hi Lambecka
thanks - good I did ask. From Your posts I read "Lambecka can prey open the pulling Reset-Relay when the motor comes to 'endlessly running' " - THEN the Ball-Index-Relay faulty pulls-in.
For the moment I (want to) accept the primary fault - 1-2- and 3-4-Reset-Relays do not rhythmically actuate on start up. For the moment I am interested in the faulty pulling-in Ball-Index-Relay ---
ONLY have the stripe of paper sneaked-in in Switch-C on Reset-Relay (- take-out the sneaked-in one out of Switch-A on Reset-Relay) - start a game - pin comes to motor endlessly runs - NOW prey-open the Reset-Relay - question: Does (faulty) the Ball-Index-Relay pull-in ?
(((I hope for: Does not pull-in --- we then have more leisure at chasing the main / first problem))) Greetings Rolf

Hi Lambecka
not a fix but makes troubleshooting more comfortable --- see the JPG - unsolder the single wire-blue-white away from the coil - then use looooong jumper-wires - taking them through the open coin-door out into the open --- then a plug or toggle-switch or clipping together gator-clips on the jumper-wires - and un-plugging / toggling-off / taken apart the gator clips (have insulated gator-clips or wear rubber gloves - do not touch bare metal / wires).
With this setup YOU have control --- YOU say: "Now is the time that the resetting shall end / the Reset-Relay shall quit pulling.
And You may work on the problem 1-2- / 3-4-Reset-Relay not rhythmically actuating. I showed in post-9 the (encircled rosa/pink) place to look-at --- when You sneak-in stripes of paper into Motor-Imp-E and Motor-Imp-A: The 1-2- and the 3-4-Reset-Relay (sitting in the Backbox) shall never pull-in (because of the stripes of paper keeping the switches open).
Do sneak-in into motor-imp-A and -E - toggle-on, start a game - do they pull-in or do they not pull-in ? Greetings Rolf

0Fan-Tas-Tic-Work-07 (resized).jpg

Hi Albert
no need to hurry - it is a hobby - and I can see You have some good pins when You "just want to play".
We know "at least three faults in Your Fan-Tas-Tic" --- one shows up after resetting - the pulling-in of the Ball-Index-Relay is the proof --- we did put aside this fault for a while. The second fault is "Reset-Relay does not quit pulling when all Score-Drums are resetted and because the Reset-Relay stays pulling forever: The motor runs and runs". The third fault is: 1-2- and 3-4-Reset-Relays do not rhythmically actuate when the Rese-Relay is pulling and the motor is running.
To chase the second fault can be time-consuming so I said: Please concentrate on the third fault --- 99% chance that the "my encircled rosa/pink" switches cam-IMP-A and -E are maladjusted --- closed when they should be open (and as on 99.99% of adjusting switch-blades: the free-ending / not hooked-in - called stationary blade must be bent).

The second fault "Reset-Relay does not quit pulling" - is time consuming --- look here http://www.ipdb.org/files/415/Williams_1968_Cabaret_Instruction_Manual_no_schematics.pdf on page-15 (ori-13) - Your pin has 16 Score-Drums - all must be checked --- see on the bottom of the page in the manual "Switch adjustment - at "0" or Index Position all switches are open as shown". 16 times (as You have 16 Score-Drums) You must inspect these switches --- the gapping of the blades - drop of solder - doghair crap of wire - bent stud --- making faulty contact - time consuming. Greetings Rolf

Hi Albert
in post-24 I wrote "at least three faults in Your pin". Chasing the problem "Reset-Relay does not quit pulling so the motor endlessly runs" can be time-consuming and we can make an (+/- good) work-around (unsoldering wire away from Coil on Reset-Relay - sneaking-in switch / plug / gator-clips to un-clip). The "faulty steady-pulling 1-2- / 3-4-Reset-Relay (s)" is annoying - hinders starting a new game. The third problem "stuck 10 points" comes later in the progression - start - reset - play --- thats why I wanted to stick to "1-2- / 3-4- problem".

To "stuck 10 points": Did You mount new rubbers on the playfield ? (At least once I read here in pinside: Have mounted new rubbers - the new rubbers are thicker than the old ones - new rubbers did faulty permanently close a stand-up-10-point-switch on the playfield).
Question: Does the 10-Point-Relay stick ? Does the 50-Points-Relay stick ?
In the ipdb-manual on page-28 (ori-27) We are informed: "10-Point-Relay actuates through Jet Bumpers and through Stand-up-Switches (behind rubbers). Here http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=820&picno=53461&zoom=1 see holes drilled for 10-Point-Stand-up-Switches. The schematics does not tell how many Stand-up-Switches --- but they all have wire-yellow and wire-green-black on the switch-blades-solder-lugs.

IF (if, if) on the "problem 1-2- / 3-4-Reset-Relays"the inspecting of motor-switches does not show the cause of the fault: We then have to consider somewhere a short (of course - I cannot see in the schematics) - we then must talk about unsoldering wires - using a Test-Light - selectively (one by one) "new wire put-in - controlled rewiring". Greetings Rolf

Hi Albert
a stuck 10-Points-Relay usually is made to stuck because a playfield-switch is faulty closed. You have inspected the stand-up switches on the playfield. See here http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=820&picno=7249 all the the way down - single bumper between the flipper-bats is worth "10 points when bumper is not lit" --- way up the left and the right of the three top bumpers are worth "10 points when bumper is not lit" --- nearby (top bumpers) there are targets to make these bumpers lit --- then they are worth 100 points. So let the fault (10-Points-Relay) happen - YOU hit one of the "make the bumper lighted" switches --- question: Does the fault on 10-Point-Relay dissapears - but You then have the fault "100-Point-Relay is sticking" ?

I am too lazy to re-read all posts --- so the question - when the 10-Point-RELAY sticks: Does the 10-Point-Score-DRUM also stick ? Does the Score-Drum open the End-of-Stroke-Switch ?

Please use more words to explain what You wanted to tell in post-29 --- especially the "By manual resetting 1,2 the drum goes to zero" - what do You do ? how many times do You do ?

A general rule: A Coil on a relay we can let faulty, constantly pull for 1 to 2 minutes - THEN we must toggle-off the pin and let the coil on the relay cool-off --- If we do not let it cool off: The coil may overheat - ruining the coil - maybe producing a short - we then have to buy a new coil. Greetings Rolf

Hi Albert
see the JPG in post-22 - i have encircled rosa pink "(5 times closing) IMP-E and "(5 times closing) IMP-A" --- wire B-O-I runs away from the switch and wire-B-BLU runs away from the switch. I would like You to unsolder*** these wires - then hook-in an Test-Light to learn about "does the Test-Light rhythmically light up five times per turn of the motor - turn of 180 degrees ?". So we then kow if the fault is in these Score-Motor-Switches or maybe some short somewhere else.

unsolder***: Can You get at the places - can You unsolder - and, think into the future - will You be able to solder-on - back-on again, later ?

On my bought pins I had (at the time) some problems --- unsolder - well Yes, but later solder-on again THERE - at this very hard to get-at place ? hmm, I said: No - I do a trick - I am rude to the pin --- I then took an old scissors and CUT the wire (instead of solder-ing-off). I cut about 2 to 3 inches away from the solder-lug. I then used a cigarette-lighter to burn away the fabric insulation - then cramped-on male / female plug*** --- all this I could do with one hand - leaning over / into the pin.

plug***: Do-It-Yourself Stores - automotive department, car-electrics: They sell plugs we can crimp-on / clamp-on / mount using a plier - squeeze the housing of the plug - and it is mounted - can be done with one hand.

Please tell me if You want to look again at these Score-Motor-IMP-E and -IMP-A switches - or if You do the unsoldering or if You do the "beeing rude".
You and I - we live in the same time zone - this is my last post for today - I go to sleep, till tomorrow, greetings Rolf

Hi Albert +
on most Gottlieb-EM-Pins there is a nice feature "Player-ONE launches FIRST ball - accidentally the ball rolls down the playfield NOT MAKING point(s) --- the ball is given again". This feature does not work on "player-2, -3, -4 first ball" - it also does not work on balls 2,3,4,5.

Usually Bally- and Williams-Pins are more generous --- the feature works on any player - on any ball.

Gottlieb has for its feature the "whatever-letter(s)-First-Ball-Relay" --- and Bally and Williams have the "Ball-Index-Relay" --- (Bally / Williams) whenever a new ball is given: Ball-Index-Relay is made non-pulling --- making point(s) makes the Ball-Index-Relay to pull-in - stay pulling for the rest of the life of this ball. Greetings Rolf

Hi Albert
is the JPG self-explaining ? Greetings Rolf

0Fan-Tas-Tic-Work-08 (resized).jpg

Hi Albert
in Switzerland most EM-pins (imported) were / are 4-player pins. I learned here in pinside that the One-Player-pins (sometimes) have a funnyier rule-set. 4-player-pins actually are (four players) One-BALL games - and the next ball starts with all the playfield-features resetted.
We look at the JPG in post-39 - "encircled red switch on Outhole-Relay" opens when a ball is lost and enters the Outhole --- the Outhole-Relay is made to pull-in to do the stuff needed to give an new ball.
The "encircled-red Switch on Outhole-Relay" opens and cuts a lot of "Self-Hold-Circuits of many feature-relays pulling" --- one of them is "pulling On-Bumper-Relay" --- so on the next new ball the feature "lighting up the bumpers" must be made again: The ball must roll onto and close one of the Top Target Switches - Initial-Current flows to the "Coil on the On-Bumper-Relay" - it pulls - establishes its Self-Hold-Current by closing its "encircled red switch" - the relay stays pulling for the rest of the life of the ball - then ball is lost - enters the Outhole - Outhole-Relay pulls-in - opens its switch and CUTS Self-Hold-Circuitry - On-Bumper-Relay (and more relays) let go and so open their Self-Hold-Switch - relay(s) stay)s) nonpulling until a new ball makes Initial-Current to flow. Greetings Rolf