(Topic ID: 217142)

Reset won't zero out properly... (this is an interesting one!)

By drsfmd

5 years ago


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  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Ralph67
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Tahiti Schematic (resized).jpg
#1 5 years ago

This is a carryover from a thread I started almost 2 years ago.

I have a Chicago Coin Golden Gloves that came to me as a non-working machine after nearly 60 years in one home. I got it up and running pretty quickly, and after some tinkering, it plays great. HOWEVER, I still haven't figured out how to get the score to zero out. When you start a new game (see video for two resets) it counts down, then counts back up again.

I have put slips of paper between all of the scoring switches, thinking something was stuck, but it didn't make a difference.

Also attached is a schematic for "Tahiti" which is a virtually identical machine of the same vintage. Near as I can tell, the schematic is identical for my machine.

Any thoughts anyone has on how I might rectify this would be appreciated!

Tahiti Schematic (resized).jpgTahiti Schematic (resized).jpg

#2 5 years ago

How many times does it increment the score incorrectly? Probably being pulsed by a score motor switch.

#3 5 years ago
Quoted from dr_nybble:

How many times does it increment the score incorrectly? Probably being pulsed by a score motor switch.

Every now and then it gets it right, but I think it's just coincidence.

I was afraid someone would suggest it was the score motor. When I bought the machine, there was a waxed paper capacitor attached to the score motor-- not sure what function it served. It was crumbling, so I replaced it with a modern cap of the same value.

#4 5 years ago

Here are the other Golden Gloves owners. Maybe you can charm one of them into making a high quality scan of the schematic from e.g. Staples ($2) or Kinkos ($6)
https://pinside.com/pinball/archive/chicago-coin-golden-gloves/owners

#5 5 years ago

I actually tried that a couple of years ago (and tried all of the folks at pinballowners too). Nobody has a schematic for it. I'm confident that the schematics are the same-- just look at the photos of the playfields. Even the wire colors are correct.

#6 5 years ago

OK does the 100M Reset (T) coil activate when you activate the slide switch?

Pinball (resized).pngPinball (resized).png

#7 5 years ago
Quoted from HowardR:

OK does the 100M Reset (T) coil activate when you activate the slide switch?

There’s nothing labeled that way. Could that be the coil on the reset stepper?

#8 5 years ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

There’s nothing labeled that way. Could that be the coil on the reset stepper?

You're welcome. You insisted on this schematic. And I have no idea what you mean by "reset stepper" so yes that would be possible.

I understand "100M Unit Reset" to be a solenoid that resets the 100,000 score unit. Possibly this one.

Pinball (resized).pngPinball (resized).png

#9 5 years ago

Thank you, of course. Yes, that’s the stepper I was referring to.

The coil you’re pointing to pulls in, the clock spring turns the gear back to the zero point, and then the coil on the side (black) activates several times and adds points back on.

Regarding the labels, nothing in the back box is tagged. The relay banks under the playfield are, and are identical to the Tahiti schematic.

#10 5 years ago

I believe how the reset should work is that the 100K unit does a full reset. This puts it in the reset position. A switch should indicate that. While in this position the 10K unit is pulsed until it advances the 100K unit to the zero position. That completes the score reset sequence. Seems though that your 100K unit is being pulsed by something else too when the score motor runs. You’ll have to go through the schematic and block various switches with fish paper for instance to see what it is.

#11 5 years ago

Here's a video of the stepper during a reset:

Quoted from dr_nybble:

I believe how the reset should work is that the 100K unit does a full reset. This puts it in the reset position. A switch should indicate that.

Correct. You probably can't see that level of detail in the video, but there's an arm that sticks out on the bottom of the gear. That activates a switch when it comes to the zero position. It's also marked as the zero position on the back side of the stepper. When it does this reset, it always adds 20,000 points to the score. It adds scores the 100,000's as well. Usually it's 500,000-- but it's occasionally less, and on rare occasion more.

Quoted from dr_nybble:

While in this position the 10K unit is pulsed until it advances the 100K unit to the zero position. That completes the score reset sequence. Seems though that your 100K unit is being pulsed by something else too when the score motor runs. You’ll have to go through the schematic and block various switches with fish paper for instance to see what it is.

I've blocked all of the switches on the playfield that would generate score... not sure where else to look.

#12 5 years ago

Since it increments five times you should look at the score motor. Which switch stacks are pulsed five times when the score motor does a rotation? I can't tell from the schematic diagram which cam that is. The top one? You could also close the various score motor switches by hand (push with a chopstick for instance) to see which one increments the 100K unit. It might not be a playfield switch but a relay switch that is closed when it shouldn't be.

#13 5 years ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

When I bought the machine, there was a waxed paper capacitor attached to the score motor-- not sure what function it served. It was crumbling, so I replaced it with a modern cap of the same value.

It's something I learned on a jukebox but can also probably be applied here too, the capacitor is likely to get the motor spinning at full speed quickly when voltage gets sent to it rather than gradually speeding up even if fast to begin with.

Considering how score motors work and need to function quickly and at the same speed throughout the entire cycle to give good results, I can't say I'm surprised.

#14 5 years ago
Quoted from dr_nybble:

Since it increments five times you should look at the score motor. Which switch stacks are pulsed five times when the score motor does a rotation? I can't tell from the schematic diagram which cam that is. The top one? You could also close the various score motor switches by hand (push with a chopstick for instance) to see which one increments the 100K unit. It might not be a playfield switch but a relay switch that is closed when it shouldn't be.

Now there's a thought... In looking at the schematic, look at the 100M Step Up Unit (far right, just above the "multiple switch" notation on the right border). There are paths there that go through M1, M6, and M4. I could block those off one at a time and see if any of them make a difference... looks like my agenda for tonight it coming together

Quoted from Otaku:

It's something I learned on a jukebox but can also probably be applied here too, the capacitor is likely to get the motor spinning at full speed quickly when voltage gets sent to it rather than gradually speeding up even if fast to begin with.
Considering how score motors work and need to function quickly and at the same speed throughout the entire cycle to give good results, I can't say I'm surprised.

Ah! I hadn't thought about it being used in that way. I think then, that we can probably rule that out, no? Aside from not resetting to zero, the scoring is correct. I haven't had any other score motor related issues.

#15 5 years ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

Ah! I hadn't thought about it being used in that way. I think then, that we can probably rule that out, no? Aside from not resetting to zero, the scoring is correct. I haven't had any other score motor related issues.

I'm sure. There is no physical connection between the wiring of the score motor itself (the score MOTOR, the motor itself - not rest of it) and this besides the fact that it spins.

#16 5 years ago

When I block M3, the score motor continues to run. Blocking any of the other switches seems to have no effect.

#17 5 years ago

Bump.

#18 5 years ago

Another bump. Surely someone out there can help...

#19 5 years ago

You'll need to exhaustively check everything that can energize the 100M Step Up Unit as per your schematic.

- via R4 (then through M1 or M6 on the score motor)
- via R3 (then through M4 on the score motor)
- via R9 and R5

Systematically block these.

You are also to get an increment when the 10M Step Up increments and it is in the 90 position. Try to block that too, maybe that is triggering when it shouldn't.

#20 5 years ago

A few more things you can look at .
Check wiper on 1-4 bonus ball unit and the wiper on the 10 million set up

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