(Topic ID: 264458)

Reset Issue with Fireball II

By timab2000

4 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

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  • 28 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Quench
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 4 years ago

As some of you know I finished the restore on my Fireball II, but I am having a intermittent problem with the game doing a reset in the middle of game play. It happens so randomly that you never know when it will happen.

As you are playing, the game will act as if the ball has drained and will start to count up all the bonus points that you have accumulated, reset all downed drop targets and if you keep playing the ball it will continue as if nothing happened. Not sure if it changes the ball in play on scoreboard to the next ball or not. Sometimes though it does all of that and ends the game like you tilted, but will give you all your points that you have scored. Really weird.

I have an Alltec Mpu and have re done the pin connectors on it as well, but if I remember I think it was doing it with the old mpu as well. I can not seem to make the game do it with the glass off just randomly hitting targets with my hand or even messing with the switches in the trough to make it think the ball has drained it just kicks out another ball. The tilt switches are adjusted so you really can't tilt the game.

Any thoughts on where to look would be appreciated. Thanks!

#2 4 years ago

Sounds like a typical switch matrix issue with a shorted switch capacitor or diode that's ghosting an outhole trough switch.
Switch test mode is you friend.

Raise all the drop targets and remove all three balls from the outhole area.
Open the manual to the switch identification page (printed page 17, electronic PDF page 21).
Get the game into switch test mode.
Activate each switch in reverse order from number 40 down to number 01 (as assigned in the switch identification chart in the manual).
When activating drop targets, leave them down. Activate trough/saucer switches and leave them closed. Make sure the actual outhole switch (01) is activated last (don't put a ball there to hold the trough switches because you won't be able to sense them).

Take note of any switch closures that report the wrong number.
You must activate switches in reverse order because switch test mode will only report the lowest number switch that's closed.
Keep your hands off the side rails (ground) so you don't get any phantom activations across the matrix.

#3 4 years ago

Okay ran through the switch test and 1st time thru switch 29 flashed and so did 21

Did it a second time and only switch 21 stayed flashing

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#4 4 years ago

Got a little confuse on directions. The 2 saucers I left closed using balls to hold them closed and switch 4 remained flashing to the end.

But none of the switchs ever showed the wrong number when activeated

#5 4 years ago

Did any switch(es) report the wrong number during the process?

To re-iterate the process. Start at switch 40 (left pop bumper). Press the pop bumper skirt and 40 should appear on the displays indicating that switch. Release the switch and do the same for switch 39 (right pop bumper). When you get to switch 35, drop the drop target and leave it down (game should report 35). Move through next drop targets in order and leave them down after activating them. When you get to the saucers, leave a ball in them so they stay activated.
When you get to the outhole switches you need to do them in order and leave them closed (like a ball is closing it).
At the end you should be left with 01 showing on the displays since that's the outhole switch that the ball sits on.

The idea is that for momentary switches you just press them momentarily to see if the game senses them. For switches that can be continuously closed (drop targets, saucers and outhole/trough switches), they need to be held closed after you activate them and move to the next lower numbered switch.

The key thing is whether any (and which) switches report the wrong number.

#6 4 years ago

Okay I'll check again and report back

#7 4 years ago

Okay went back through the whole process every switch number corresponds with each switch.

No wrong numbers on any of the switches

#8 4 years ago

Check your coin switch wiring. If you have a stuck or shorted coin switch you can have matrix issues like this.

#9 4 years ago

Ok coin switches are not showing up on the test. Game is set on free play so I skipped those. Here is a pic of what they look like.

From left to right no switch in the middle location

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#10 4 years ago

Not that it matters much but those two cut red-green wires (where there's no centre coin switch) are supposed to be connected together for the coin chute switch closer to the lock to function since the red-green wire is daisy chained to each coin switch.

If all switches report correctly in switch test mode as per the processes I mentioned above then you might have a phantom switch activation issue caused by high current noise.

Do you notice if the phantom outhole switch activation is happening when the doodle bug mech is putting on its show, or maybe when you press a flipper button particularly the right flipper?

#11 4 years ago

Hey thanks for the help I will get those wires squared away.

Unfortunately it happens with no notice so it's hard to know what just happened before it happens, if that makes sence.

But on the good side...it forces me to play it more which is good since there is nothing else going on right now. I'll report back....

#12 4 years ago

Doubtful it is a 5V issue, but if your meter has a min/max setting, use it. Power up the game and clip your meter to the 5V and GND test points. Press min/max and begin to play. When the error occurs, go back and read the meter and see if the 5V dropped for some reason.

#13 4 years ago

The description of the issue is not the game resetting. It's the game incorrectly sensing the outhole switch activating; counting down the bonus, resetting the drop targets and moving to the next ball number *mid ball*.

@timab2000, I know you said it's random but roughly how often does it happen?

Next time it happens, (you notice the bonus countdown happening) immediately switch the game off. Take note (photo) of all drop targets that are down and whether any balls are locked in the saucers.

One thing I suggest trying: the MPU J2 connector has two wires running to another in loom connector in the head (white-green wire and grey-yellow wire). Please disconnect that two wire connector - it's for the post kicker button switch next to the right flipper button in the cabinet. The wiring to that kicker switch picks up a lot of electrical noise from the flipper wiring and one of those post kicker switch wires is associated with the outhole in the switch matrix which is where you appear to be getting phantom activations.

#14 4 years ago

Found some time to work on game today. Here is what I did:

Got the 2 wires at the coin door attached to each and now the coin switchs that are there work.

Separated some of the wire bundles in the backbox so they are not all shoved in one plastic holder thing and cleaned that up.

Found broken wire barely hanging on at the little demon cabinet switch and re soldered that.

Played 20 games straight thru without any reset issues. So maybe doing all that fixed the problem. If it comes back I let you know.

2 weeks later
#15 4 years ago

Ok well the issue still exists. I had the game unplugged for about a week or so and yesterday I plugged it back in and on the first two game it shut down and restarted again in the middle of the game play.

I did notice that when it happens the 1,2,3,4 bonus lights stayed lit, and it makes a on and off siren noise for lack of a better word. No other lights are on when it resets.

So I am back to scratching my head as to what to look at next. Any thoughts?

#16 4 years ago

The siren is a slam tilt indication. Look at all the tilts - the ball roll cage on the cabinet is usually suspect here.

There's one on the coin door, and possibly one on the playfield underside.

#17 4 years ago
Quoted from timab2000:

Ok well the issue still exists.

Did the slam tilt happen to occur when the doodle bug bouncing ball was active?

#18 4 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Did the slam tilt happen to occur when the doodle bug bouncing ball was active?

No. The first time was during a 3 ball multiball and the second was just during regular play.

#19 4 years ago
Quoted from slochar:

The siren is a slam tilt indication. Look at all the tilts - the ball roll cage on the cabinet is usually suspect here.
There's one on the coin door, and possibly one on the playfield underside.

I have looked those over and see nothing unusual there unless a capacitor on something is not working

#20 4 years ago

Probably time to just replace all the switch capacitors (if you haven't already).

#21 4 years ago

Ok after further investigation I am able to duplicate the problem off of the coin door tilt and the one on the side of the cabinet by the tilt boob. (See pics)

But the game is not being shaking enough for them to activated during game play, so I will replace the caps and see if that helps and report back

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#22 4 years ago

Changed the caps and that did not change anything. But I did notice this interesting issue while messing around with it.

I'm guessing it is some kind of ground issue which could be causing the reset issue as well so I'll keep looking. But any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks!

#23 4 years ago

In the video, you're just creating a low impedance path with your body which causes chaos with the switch matrix.

I'm thinking the same may be happening during game play. Something loose or something that is not grounded properly on your side rails, coin door, trim pieces etc. Make sure your ground braid is intact and touching everything including leg bolt brackets.

#24 4 years ago

The capacitor you've got wired on the tilt plumb bob is connected to the wrong location. It should NOT be connected across to the slam tilt switch, rather that end should be connected to the lug screwed to the tilt board with the two blue-orange wires.
i.e. one end of the capacitor connects to the white-black wire at the outer plumb bob brass ring (as you have it), the other end of the capacitor connects to the two blue-orange wires just above it. That's why those two wires are soldered to that lug.

#25 4 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

The capacitor you've got wired on the tilt plumb bob is connected to the wrong location. It should NOT be connected across to the slam tilt switch, rather that end should be connected to the lug screwed to the tilt board with the two blue-orange wires.
i.e. one end of the capacitor connects to the white-black wire at the outer plumb bob brass ring (as you have it), the other end of the capacitor connects to the two blue-orange wires just above it. That's why those two wires are soldered to that lug.

Yep I fixed that by looking at how a working game was wired. Still no change.

#26 4 years ago
Quoted from Skidave:

In the video, you're just creating a low impedance path with your body which causes chaos with the switch matrix.
I'm thinking the same may be happening during game play. Something loose or something that is not grounded properly on your side rails, coin door, trim pieces etc. Make sure your ground braid is intact and touching everything including leg bolt brackets.

Planning on going thru that and will report back.

#27 4 years ago

Ok...I feel somewhat like an idiot, and here's why.

I did not know until I read the manual that the switchs on the coin door and the side cabinet are not tilt switches but slam switches which shut the game down if you get too rough with it.

I only realized this after activating the switches on other Bally games that I owned and they all did the same thing.

So changing the caps and fixing the bad wiring may have fixed the problem. I was activating the switches manually thinking it would tilt the game rather than shutting it down. STUPID!!! Oh well learn something new everyday.

So...I have played several games and it is not resetting during gameplay yet. So fingers crossed.

Now the ground issue I am still working on. Thanks for the help and Ill report back if anything changes.

#28 4 years ago
Quoted from timab2000:

Now the ground issue I am still working on.

There's no need to investigate the ground issue in your video any further. Every Bally will do that. You grounding the switch return lines is injecting noise into the system that it's picking up as phantom switch activations.

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