(Topic ID: 243867)

Resurrecting a Black Hole

By uncivil_engineer

5 years ago


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  • 26 posts
  • 10 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by basset1
  • Topic is favorited by 6 Pinsiders

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#1 5 years ago

One of the machines on my wishlist for the past few years has been Black Hole. Thanks to a budy of mine, I managed to pick one up about a month ago. It is pretty much a complete machine expect for one very important detail... All the Board in the backbox were missing. Other than that, the cabinet is in Ok condition, with the exception of some tape marks on the head, and the playfields could use some love. They are not completely torn up, but there are some bear spots on them,

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So over the past month, through various internet sources, I have managed at moderate expense to pick up a board set for the game. This has included a Pascal PI-80 combo board, a swemmer auxillary lighting board, and a swemmer A7 sound power supply board.

I plan on bringing this thing up instages: First check out the power supply with no boards attached. Then add the PI-80 board with no connections to the playfield. Then I need to check out all the coils on the playfield to make sure nothing is shorted before try powering it up.

So to make the power supply easier to work on, I pulled both playfields out of the cabinet.
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The first issue I encountered was with the plug. The ground rod was missing. So I decided to install a new plug. Then I plugged it in and started in on the power supply. It appeared to be a mess, complete with wire nuts, but when I broke out the multi-meter, I found most of it actually worked.
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And even with everything removed from the backbox, I showed signs of life!
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Now, I my next job will be cleaning up the connectors.... Every ground connection is corroded. I have never seen corrosion like this before in a pinball machine. I think the broken ground lug on the main plug may be the reason they all look so bad.
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#2 5 years ago

Repin the connectors. Scrub the green slime off the connector housing with a toothbrush and Isopropyl Alcohol.

#3 5 years ago

That green slime is from the insulation breaking down, nothing to do with a missing ground prong

#4 5 years ago

Well it is cleaning up with 90% rubbing alcohol. I am having to use pipe cleaners to clean out the pin housings after I take the old pin out.

#5 5 years ago

Well I made progress of a sort today. I managed to blow the 125ma fuse on the Pi-80 board. I had all the displays unplugged, and was attaching them one at a time... The player two display popped the fuse. I think it has a bad cap on it. Unfortunaly, I discovered I didn't have either the 125ma through hole fuse, or the 1uf 100v cap... So off to Mouser I go...

#6 5 years ago

Parts came in today and wooo hooo! She is now booting on her PI-80 boards! Next I need to start going through the playfield coils looking for shorts before I put it back in. I also need to finish repinning a few connectors.A24B609D-D345-47FA-9B55-300FFF7272EF (resized).jpegA24B609D-D345-47FA-9B55-300FFF7272EF (resized).jpeg
You might notice I only have 3 working displays. Display 4 has a broken element in it and can’t be recharged. So I’m in the market for a working 6 digit Gottlieb display.

#7 5 years ago

So today I took the sound board I got off eBay and loaded up a couple of 2716 EPROMs with the game sound code. I installed the board and it appears to work. The board originally has god of war ROMs in it.

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1 week later
#8 5 years ago

Well I finished cleaning up the lower playfield this evening. I replaced the upkick coil as the old one had melted. I also cleaned up the drop targets to make them go up and down again. The topside got everything cleaned up. It looks a lot nicer than when I started.

The before and after pictures:
BeforeBefore
AfterAfter

1 week later
#9 5 years ago

I haven’t forgotten about this thread.. I’ve been working her off and on over the last month. So far here is what I have done: rebuilt the topside drop targets, rebuilt all four topside flippers, and finally a power up test of the machine with both playfields installed.

I approach the playfield install somewhat cautiously. I checked every coil for shorts... in fact I did have to replace three coils that were burnt up, and the under playfield drive transistor that operates the lower playfield up kick had to be replaced. After a few false starts I am happy to report all the controlled coils now work!

Next on my list is the topside tear down, and cleaning up the bumper contacts so they will work again too.

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#11 5 years ago

I need to post a picture of my board setup now. My Black Hole is up and running on all new boards with the exception of the sound board (which is an original Gottlieb board out of a Gods of War).

The boards I am running are:
The driver/MPU/Power supply is now a PI-80
The sound power supply is a new swemmer board
The Aux lamp board is a new board (also swemmer I think)
The Sound board is an original Gottlieb board

When I went through the power supply, I did replace the power cord with a new three prong plug, and I have re-pinned most of the ground connections at the boards. So I am currently operating without the ground mod, and so It has been working great. Had I been running original System 80 boards, I would have done the mod.

#12 5 years ago

Pretty sure the ground mods are not needed on the pascal board as they were designed with the proper grounds.

#13 5 years ago

I’ve made some more progress on rebuilding the upper playfield. I have to admit I like the look of the natural white leds in the GI. The new plastics look pretty good too.

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#14 5 years ago

Wooo hoo... She is flipping again. I’ve got all the lights working but the shoot again light, and I’ve put a few games on her...there still are a few kinks to work out, like why multiple pop bumpers fire at once, and I need to do the EOS mod to the up kick to keep the ball from jumping the closed reentry gate. It’s getting closer to being done.

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#15 5 years ago
Quoted from uncivil_engineer:

there still are a few kinks to work out, like why multiple pop bumpers fire at once

I find that happens after I rebuild pops when the switch gaps are a little close. This is because that when everything is back to normal, the vibration from the pops is strong enough to shake the gaps closed.

#16 5 years ago

Well I tried regapping the pop bumper, but it still is going off with the others. I will next try swapping the trigger boards and see if the problem follows the board.

On another subject, here is the board set I am running:
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It’s been working pretty flawlessly so far.

#17 5 years ago

Well I finally got the pop-bumpers figured out... I finally adjusted the switches so one bumper would not set off the adjacent bumper. After that I had to figure out why some of my bumpers were sticking in the down position, and setting off the failsafe built into the PI-80 board (if a bumper stays down for more than 5 seconds, it triggers a tilt, and give an error). Turns out my plungers were magnetized. I put a strip of electrical tape on my coil stops, and now the bumpers work pretty well.

So for now, I am going to call this done. It is not the prettiest black hole I have ever seen, but it is my black hole. It plays pretty fast and hard, and I think I have over 100 games on it, and I have yet to get a multi-ball, but it is fun.

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7 months later
#18 4 years ago
Quoted from uncivil_engineer:

Well I finally got the pop-bumpers figured out... I finally adjusted the switches so one bumper would not set off the adjacent bumper. After that I had to figure out why some of my bumpers were sticking in the down position, and setting off the failsafe built into the PI-80 board (if a bumper stays down for more than 5 seconds, it triggers a tilt, and give an error). Turns out my plungers were magnetized. I put a strip of electrical tape on my coil stops, and now the bumpers work pretty well.
So for now, I am going to call this done. It is not the prettiest black hole I have ever seen, but it is my black hole. It plays pretty fast and hard, and I think I have over 100 games on it, and I have yet to get a multi-ball, but it is fun.[quoted image][quoted image]

I just did a refurbishment of a Black Hole myself, although I started with a machine that was it relatively good shape. It had just been unmaintained and abused by grandkids (and myself when I was younger) in my parents' basement for a couple of decades. I managed to repair a couple of problems with the all-original boards but replaced the original power supply (5v leg died halfway through restoration) with the Rottendog GPS081. I also performed the ground mods, as is required by federal law.

But I had the exact problems with the pop bumpers -- one pops, they all pop. And then they stick down. I took them apart, cleaned everything, reassembled. Replaced a coil here, swapped a plunger there. Wrapped plungers, mounting brackets, and coil stop brackets in cloth and smashed them against things (in attempt to demagnetize). No change. I was really feeling stumped for a while. I ended up ordering complete rebuild kits from Steve, but in the end, I realized this was probably not necessary.

Domino pops: Yes, it's good to have the gap set well, but it's important to first make sure the skirt pin sits perfectly centered in the spoon when at rest. Also make sure the spoon is clean and smooth. Loosen the spoon switch screws and twist the switch body a few degrees left or right if necessary to get it just right. This gives you more leeway to set a wider gap without losing pop sensitivity.

Sticky rings: I'm about 90% sure the problem was not magnification, (I think this is a Pinside myth), but simply weak return springs. The brand new springs I got with the rebuild kit were noticeably stiffer than the tired and weak (1981 original) ones I took out. Once I finished the rebuilds, set the spoon and switch gaps... both problems disappeared and the machine plays great.

Great reading your restoration story! I'm curious if you hit any other snags.

Paul
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#19 4 years ago

With regards to the sticky pop bumpers. I did end up rebuilding two of them with new parts. Putting tape over the stops only lasted for about 50 games, and then they began to stick again. So I bit the bullet and ordered the replacement plungers, springs and stops from Steve. They have been working great ever since.

#20 4 years ago
Quoted from AlonzoMoselyFBI:

Sticky rings: I'm about 90% sure the problem was not magnification, (I think this is a Pinside myth)

I agree but for different reasons! Here is what I found on mine.

Examine the yoke for the popper and see if it is striking the bracket. When the coil pulls in, the yoke crashes into the bracket (effectively become the coil stop) and it jams the plunger to one side in the sleeve making the popper stick. Rebuilding usually entails new stops and plungers which have not been shortened by millions of cycles and the problem is fixed as it moves the yoke away from the bracket..

Mine were actually in good shape so I ground 1/8" off the point on the yoke and the problem was resolved. Drove me nuts tracking it down for 2 weeks as I didn't believe the magnetism story as the parts exhibited no magnetic properties when tested.

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#21 4 years ago

Interesting... I definitely saw no such damage or strike marks on the yokes or the brackets. Apart from a bit of dirt and wear where the spring rests, the parts were in excellent shape. And likewise -- I could not detect any magnetic properties. (Wouldn't the violent action of simply being part of a pop bumper mechanism protect against polarization?? I'm not a scientist but that seems unlikely in such an environment )

If the yoke is striking the bracket, doesn't that mean the coil stop -- (built in to the mounting bracket) -- is probably badly worn? It seems like the plunger is throwing way too far. I'm afraid chiseling the yoke could allow the ring to start actually hitting the skirt or doing other damage.

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-17906

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#22 4 years ago
Quoted from AlonzoMoselyFBI:

If the yoke is striking the bracket, doesn't that mean the coil stop -- (built in to the mounting bracket) -- is probably badly worn? It seems like the plunger is throwing way too far. I'm afraid chiseling the yoke could allow the ring to start actually hitting the skirt or doing other damage.

Only talking 1/8", my stops and plungers looked fine.

Yes magnetism does not hold up well in situation like this, physically beating or heating steel is a good way to demagnetize an object. And one can assume plungers get beat a lot.

#23 4 years ago

Magnetization of coil stops and plungers definitely happens - you can demagnetize steel by hitting it with a hammer so maybe the theory is that the coil stop naturally does this?

EM's/AC coils have to have a bit of magnetism in the coil stop so anything that needs to pull in can stay pulled in while the AC sine wave is zero, but this is by design.

Of course, sticking stuff is not ALWAYS magnetized parts - that's just one of the reasons it could happen, as seen in this very thread. Most of the time I think the common cause is dirty parts.

2 weeks later
#24 4 years ago
Quoted from uncivil_engineer:

I need to do the EOS mod to the up kick to keep the ball from jumping the closed reentry gate. [quoted image]

Hey can you expound on this part a little? My upkicker seems to be a bit too strong. When the gate is closed, the ball flows nicely (not nicely) to the drain, but when the gate is open, the ball hits it so hard it ricochets off the gate up and into the glass, making an ear-piercing and distracting CRACK.

Here's a slo-mo: https://photos.app.goo.gl/yd954vGj145iFRWU9

Were you able to add an EOS? Did it help?

Thanks!

Paul

2 weeks later
#25 4 years ago

Put playfield down, played a few games, ball stuck. I had a mirror and flashlight ready to look thru the hole in the backbox to see which relay stuck. It was the right spinner relay. Took coil out, cleaning it. Noticed that moving the plate back and forth there was a little bit of a catch from a little piece of raised metal. Will fix with dremel. Put small piece of paper clip on plate and coil and neither seem to be magnetized. Will let you know the outcome. Gee, I think I'm getting close! Thanks for your help. Reed

#26 4 years ago

Sorry, posted in wrong place.

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