Hi,

I'm looking at purchasing a TAFG that I found on Craigslist, and from some further investigation I've discovered the guy is also registered here... I'm in the UK and he's in the States so obviously there is only so much I can do remotely, which is obviously giving me cause for concern above and beyond that which would exist buying a pin domestically.

Without naming names he has sent me a lot of photos and a video of it in action - everything checks out, the playfield is a TAFG judging by the less prominant star on the red carpet, it looks in overall great condition, etc. Haven't yet checked to see whether it has the other signs yet, but will. The asking price is over $10k, which intuitively feels like top end money.

What is causing me concern however is that the certificate appears to me to be a reproduction. The signatures are an exact match for the one sold by Pinball Fanatic. The seller hadn't advised me up front that it was a reproduction, which if I'm honest is something I would do if I were selling it because it is ultimately historically important for as much of it to be original, etc. I've asked about the manual - which I believe is harder to reproduce - but as it hasn't yet been pictured I'm assuming it doesn't exist.

I guess what I'm asking is how much this ought to affect the value and accordingly the price I should pay.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts

Thanks.

It's not so much wanting to frame it, moreover that if the price reflects an original certificate, but is actually a reproduction, then perhaps that's something to take issue with. I don't have a problem with a reproduction certificate in theory, beyond the fact of having to point it out to anyone who might later buy the pin from me. I guess I'm looking at it from the point of view of disclosure, and with a limited edition I would presume anything that is non-original could have an impact.

I could be making too big a deal out of it though... I acknowledge that

Even a TAFG?

Thanks all.

Having looked at the photographs more a few things stand out:

- The centre metal ramp looks silver rather than gold
- Both the top right flipper and Thing flipper have black rubbers instead of red
- The Thing cover and bookcase have what looks like decals on top of them (I guess that could just be a taste thing, but still not original)

Don't know how big a deal any of those things are, the biggest thing feels like the ramp - I can't explain why that would be silver.

The seller has claimed that the certificate isn't a reproduction but a "reissued Williams/Bally certificate", but the signatures are an exact match for the one Pinball Fanatic sells (e.g. Pat's signature intersecting L.E.D's, etc). As suspected there is no manual either.

I never realised trying to find a TAFG was going to be this fraught.

The ball return ramp.. excuse my poor Photoshopping..

silver-ramp (resized).jpg

(Note: That's NOT a photo from the one the guy is selling, I just found that on Google)

This was the original ad, earlier in the year: https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/45520

To be fair, the playfield looks like a TAFG to me, although I'm new to this game.. I read the Flippers comparison thing and the stars on the red carpet going from the top right flipper to the trainwreck are indeed less prominent on this one.

The sale has fallen through on this now anyway, there's too many things I'm uncomfortable with in relation to the asking price.

Thanks for all the help.

I tend to think it's genuine too. That said, I can't explain the silver wire ramp, and to be honest i was turned off at the point I was told the certificate wasn't a reproduction but was "an original reissued by Bally/Williams", whatever that means. Trust gone at that point really, especially as I'm so remote.

Thanks again all.

One thing I think this has proven is that buying a TAFG isn't simple. I guess some of the issues are to be expected in buying a game that's 25 years old anyway, i.e. it's likely to have been refurbished in its life, and back in its youth it was probably more of a utilitarian thing than a cherished possession.

Also doesn't really help that Bally themselves released a halfway house of a TAFG cabinet with regular internals, etc, or that there are so many parts that you can source yourself to convert a TAF to a TAFG. I guess that also begs the question that at which point does a TAF become a TAFG in all but name. A question for the philosophers perhaps

For what it's worth I don't think the seller of that game was misrepresenting it, I do think it's a TAFG based on what I've seen of it. Given the asking price and what I am looking for (I'm basically a purist, I'd want an unmolested machine bar refurbishments/LEDs) it just ended up that it wasn't the one for me.