Replacing Stand-up Target Faces - Vid's Guide

(Topic ID: 129076)

Replacing Stand-up Target Faces - Vid's Guide


By vid1900

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 51 posts
  • 18 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 86 days ago by Chalkey
  • Topic is favorited by 130 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic Gallery

    There have been 19 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

    20180823_101405.jpg
    20180823_103357.jpg
    20180823_085053.jpg
    large.JPG
    standup (resized).jpg
    Steve-Young.jpg
    7-rivet-washers.jpg
    transfer-punch.jpg
    10.jpg
    9.jpg
    8.jpg
    7.jpg
    6.jpg
    5.jpg
    4.jpg
    3.jpg

    There are 51 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    15
    #1 3 years ago

    At some point in your pin-owning lifetime, you are going to need to repair a cracked Stand-up Target face, or replace a bunch of them as part of a restoration.

    If you do restorations for a living, you will certainly invest in a dedicated Rivet Press. A press saves time, and there is no truer saying than "time is money" when restoring pins.

    But if you are doing a repair on route, or just the occasional restoration, I'm going to show you how to make perfect riveted switch faces.

    1.jpg

    #2 3 years ago

    So first, you are going to need some new target faces.

    Pinball Resource has 100s of them available, most for around $1 after your 10% discount.

    Each target includes a new rivet for mounting.

    http://pbresource.com/pfswitch.htm#wmsu

    gtb-a9374t.jpg

    #3 3 years ago

    Beginners who completely disassemble a bunch of switches will loose some of the little spacers, or put them back together wrong or in someway screw things up.

    So rule #1 is: DON'T TAKE SWITCHES APART UNLESS YOU ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO.

    The easy solution is to just remove one screw, and slightly loosen the second. There is no way to lose any parts or mess up the leaf order if you leave one screw in place.

    -

    Sometimes you will find switches that have rivets holding the entire structure together, rather than screws.

    Drill these rivets out and replace them with 5-40 size screws and lock nuts. Using screws will make them easy to service in the future.

    2.jpg

    #4 3 years ago

    The old rivet needs to be drilled out.

    Than means you need a SHARP, NEW 3/16" drill bit - an old one from the bottom of your tool box is not going to cut it.

    Sharp drill bits make chips, dull ones make dust - memorize this.

    Because the rivet metal is very soft, the bit tends to lodge into the rivet and spin it in place.

    By drilling against a face-up piece of coarse sandpaper, we keep the rivet head from spinning.

    Don't press too hard, set your drill on it's fastest speed, and make some chips.

    3.jpg

    #5 3 years ago

    One second of drilling and the back of the rivet head is gone.

    Don't drill all the way through the rivet, or enlarge the hole in the Backing Washer; all you want to do is remove the back of the rivet head.

    Save the Backing Washer. If you lose one of them, you can buy 1/8" backing washers in the Pop Rivet isle at the local hardware store.

    Q: The Rivet was already loose and just spins, sandpaper or not !

    A: Take a couple of passes with a coarse file and the back of the rivet will be gone. If you don't own a file, you can re-cinch the rivet with a punch or hammer and drill it again.

    -

    Q: The back of the Rivet head is completely gone, but the Rivet shaft is still stuck in the hole.

    A: Place the Rivet over a hole in your workbench and tap the rivet shaft out with an 1/8" punch.

    4.jpg

    #6 3 years ago

    5.jpg
    #7 3 years ago

    Now it is time to cinch the new rivet.

    Here you can ideally use a rivet die, or just a regular Transfer Punch.

    You can't set a rivet on a wood workbench, you need something metal, like an anvil or the "anvil" on the back of a vise, to hammer against.

    Two taps is all it takes, the rivet is very soft metal.

    If the target won't spin, you are tight enough (if you leave the target loose, it will wear the hole in the switch leaf, ruining it).

    Q: Can't I just use a Pop Rivet Gun?

    A: No. Although Pop Rivet Guns are great for pinball plastics (Pop metal is softer than regular rivet metal, so less wear on the ball); on targets, they leave a ball of material on the back of the rivet, interfering with the backing foam.

    -

    Q: I cinched the rivet down, but there is one little piece of metal standing proud.

    A: Just flatten it gently with the hammer.

    6.jpg

    Q: What is a Transfer Punch?

    A: A Transfer Punch fits snugly in a hole, so when you tap it with a hammer, it transfers the exact center of the hole to another surface. Because the tips of the punches are hardened, they work great as an impromptu rivet die.

    A complete set of Transfer Punches is $10 at Harbor Freight.

    transfer-punch.jpg

    #8 3 years ago

    Note that the alignment pins are on both sides of the switch leaf.

    7.jpg

    #9 3 years ago

    If your switch is old enough to need a new face, it probably needs a good cleaning.

    NEVER use a file or sandpaper on low voltage switches!!!!! If you do, they are now ruined.

    Pull a crisp $100 bill through the contacts until they are clean, or use a Contact Burnisher made for cleaning relays.

    8.jpg

    #10 3 years ago

    Any switch old enough to need a new face probably needs new backing foam. If the switch is really old, the foam might be gone altogether.

    The foam makes the switch contacts last longer, and it keeps the backing bracket from bending backwards. Unbent brackets means less airballs.

    Bally taught us techs to add the foam to any direct line of fire targets - even to ancient games that never had foam originally.

    Don't buy little pieces of foam for .90 cents, get a whole roll of 1/4" weatherstripping foam for $2.

    It's easier to set your switch gap on the bench, than when it's installed in the machine.

    Set the gap so the switch contacts touch, just as the target is entering the foam.

    9.jpg

    #11 3 years ago

    If the switch if from an old Bally, and the capacitor is original - ALWAYS REPLACE IT.

    Those old Bally caps are total crap and will often give false switch closures.

    100 caps for .90 cents:

    http://www.taydaelectronics.com/capacitors/ceramic-disc-capacitors/10-x-0-047uf-50v-ceramic-disc-capacitor-pkg-of-10.html

    10.jpg

    #12 3 years ago

    Wow, that was easy! I was under the impression that I needed to invest in a press. Now I can order some faces and move forward with Firepower! Thanx Vid!

    #13 3 years ago

    Thanks for yet another great contribution Vid

    #15 3 years ago

    These are the backing washers for rivets.

    You ALWAYS need to use these if you ever pop rivet (also called Blind Rivet) plastics or thin metals.

    7-rivet-washers.jpg
    #16 3 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    These are the backing washers for rivets.
    You ALWAYS need to use these if you ever pop rivet (also called Blind Rivet) plastics or thin metals.

    7-rivet-washers.jpg

    Are those the same to use for ramp flaps?

    #17 3 years ago
    Quoted from TomGWI:

    Are those the same to use for ramp flaps?

    Yes, you don't want a pop rivet expanding and cracking the plastic on the ramp.

    2 weeks later
    #18 3 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Any switch old enough to need a new face probably needs new backing foam. If the switch is really old, the foam might be gone altogether.
    Don't buy little pieces of foam for .90 cents, get a whole roll of 1/4" weatherstripping foam for $2.
    It's easier to set your switch gap on the bench, than when it's installed in the machine.
    Set the gap so the switch contacts touch, just as the target is entering the foam.
    9.jpg

    So all of my Firepower stand up targets should have a piece of backing foam on them? I realize these machines are 35 years old and the original pieces may have disintegrated. Might as well check for damaged faces. Time to do some work!

    Thanks Vid!

    #19 3 years ago

    Put some foam in there.

    The target faces and contacts will last longer.

    4 weeks later
    #20 3 years ago

    I just picked up a bunch of target faces at a show but they didn't have any rivets. Is this something that can be purchased at a local hardware store?

    #21 3 years ago

    You won't find them at Home Depot, but a **real** hardware store sometimes will have them.

    You can get them online from PBR or McMaster

    #22 3 years ago

    Thanks Vid for another great tutorial!

    #23 3 years ago

    Awesome tutorial, Vid - thank you!

    #24 3 years ago

    Excellent guide vid! Do you know if any sells the square targets? (Used on goldeneye)

    #26 3 years ago

    I saw those. Was thinking about only the plastic piece. Like you do in your case?

    10
    #27 3 years ago

    PBR probably has the faces you want, you just better have the correct part #s before you call Steve.

    Steve-Young.jpg

    2 years later
    #28 1 year ago

    what are the typical length rivets used to attach target faces?

    2 weeks later
    #29 1 year ago

    Probably a stupid question and not quite on-topic with the thread, but this seemed like an OK place to ask. I bought this standup target assembly from Marco:
    http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/515-5930-06

    I am now trying to figure out how to put it together, most of which I can work out by looking at the target I'm replacing. But where do the tiny lock-washers (circled in red) go?

    Also, would you recommend adding padding of some kind to these targets (they didn't have padding originally)? And if so, what type of material/thickness is recommended?

    standup (resized).jpg

    #30 1 year ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    I am now trying to figure out how to put it together, most of which I can work out by looking at the target I'm replacing. But where do the tiny lock-washers (circled in red) go?

    Looking at the assembled picture on marco, there's 1 under each of the bolt heads, and I assume 1 under each other the nuts on the back:
    large.JPG

    #31 1 year ago
    Quoted from ajfclark:

    Looking at the assembled picture on marco, there's 1 under each of the bolt heads, and I assume 1 under each other the nuts on the back:

    Can’t believe I missed that. Thank you!

    4 weeks later
    #32 1 year ago

    Whoa! this is a great guide

    Vid is my freaking hero for guiding me through all my repairs

    EDIT:

    Does PBR sell the new rivets needed? I didn't see them on their site, but they have tons of parts not listed.

    #33 1 year ago

    PBR does sell them, I ordered a bunch extra when i ordered the faces (the faces come with them).

    #34 1 year ago

    Thanks Vid,
    I'm about to replace my first target face. This was exceptionally well described.

    #35 1 year ago
    Quoted from BorgDog:

    PBR does sell them, I ordered a bunch extra when i ordered the faces (the faces come with them).

    Thanks for the confirmation!

    #36 1 year ago

    PBR got me the rivet info!

    p/n
    GTB-FA551A
    1/8 X 7/32 -Nickel Plated (Steel) -Used for Target Faces & Most Ramp Flaps

    Under tools
    http://www.pbresource.com/tools.html

    1 week later
    #37 11 months ago

    I just received my PBR order. Some of the targets have imperfections, I'll call Steve for replacements.

    Here's my question. I bought solid color targets: red, purple,yellow and orange. Aside from the colors being off from the originals (I get that), the new targets have a flat matt finish while the old ones are glossy. Should the new ones be polished? If so with what? Should they be sprayed with glossy clear? Other options?

    #38 11 months ago
    Quoted from DropTarget:

    Should the new ones be polished?

    Only if you are really anal.

    Quoted from DropTarget:

    If so with what?

    Novus2 usually works.

    Buff before you install.

    #39 11 months ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Only if you are really anal.

    Novus2 usually works.
    Buff before you install.

    I'm really anal! Well, not really, but anal enough.

    Happy Thanksgiving.

    1 week later
    #40 11 months ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Now it is time to cinch the new rivet.
    Here you can ideally use a rivet die, or just a regular Transfer Punch.
    You can't set a rivet on a wood workbench, you need something metal, like an anvil or the "anvil" on the back of a vise, to hammer against.
    Two taps is all it takes, the rivet is very soft metal.
    If the target won't spin, you are tight enough (if you leave the target loose, it will wear the hole in the switch leaf, ruining it).
    Q: Can't I just use a Pop Rivet Gun?
    A: No. Although Pop Rivet Guns are great for pinball plastics (Pop metal is softer than regular rivet metal, so less wear on the ball); on targets, they leave a ball of material on the back of the rivet, interfering with the backing foam.
    -
    Q: I cinched the rivet down, but there is one little piece of metal standing proud.
    A: Just flatten it gently with the hammer.

    Q: What is a Transfer Punch?
    A: A Transfer Punch fits snugly in a hole, so when you tap it with a hammer, it transfers the exact center of the hole to another surface. Because the tips of the punches are hardened, they work great as an impromptu rivet die.
    A complete set of Transfer Punches is $10 at Harbor Freight.

    Hey vid,
    What size transfer punch would work well for a target face rivet?

    #41 11 months ago
    Quoted from northvibe:

    Hey vid,
    What size transfer punch would work well for a target face rivet?

    The set I have was laser marked, and on the black steel, is now unreadable.

    I'm guessing that it is around 1/4"

    #42 11 months ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    The set I have was laser marked, and on the black steel, is now unreadable.
    I'm guessing that it is around 1/4"

    ok. I'll go pick up the HF set. Is there a good method or way to size them to the rivet?

    #43 11 months ago
    Quoted from northvibe:

    ok. I'll go pick up the HF set. Is there a good method or way to size them to the rivet?

    The cone die faces of the punches are almost all the same size (as you will soon see), so GENTLY set the rivets and don't worry about a certain size something.

    It's so easy, you will laugh once your cherry is busted.

    #44 11 months ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    The cone die faces of the punches are almost all the same size (as you will soon see), so GENTLY set the rivets and don't worry about a certain size something.
    It's so easy, you will laugh once your cherry is busted.

    hahahha, okay good I'll add the cherry to my drink afterward As usual, I'll update afterward and tell you how awesome your guide was

    #45 11 months ago

    My HF is out of transfer punches!!! they said it "may" be here next week....omg....

    #46 11 months ago

    HF has 25% off coupon, but after fast shipping, Amazon's 28 piece w/ prime was cheaper. Should have them sunday!

    #47 11 months ago

    soooo I was drilling out the rivets, but the washers were getting cut up....then I was using a drop of 3-1 oil on the rivet first and it pretty much solved the drill bit eating any of the metal of the washer or target back. So theres my tip! I need to snag new washers

    3 months later
    #48 8 months ago

    Great info, thanks!

    4 months later
    #49 3 months ago

    Found no foam on my Data East JP. Is it just gone or did Data East not use foam?

    #50 3 months ago
    Quoted from Wiggy:

    Found no foam on my Data East JP. Is it just gone or did Data East not use foam?

    To answer my own question; Yes. Yes they did.

    Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
    $ 69.99
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 29.99
    Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 7,199.00
    Pinball Machine
    Operation Pinball
    From: $ 217.00
    From: $ 42.00
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    From: $ 155.00
    $ 164.99
    $ 79.99
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Medisinyl Mods
    $ 179.99
    From: $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    From: $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 10.00
    Apparel - Unisex
    Lee's Parts
    From: $ 19.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 69.99
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 999.00
    Flipper Parts
    Mircoplayfields
    $ 84.95
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    Super Skill Shot Shop
    £ 70.00
    $ 5,599.00
    Pinball Machine
    Operation Pinball
    $ 69.99
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 6.35
    Cabinet - Decals
    PinGraffix Pinside Shop
    $ 5,799.00
    Pinball Machine
    Flip N Out Pinball
    $ 999.00
    From: $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    There are 51 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.

    Hey there! Got a moment?

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside