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(Topic ID: 105260)

Replacing Line Cords, Plugs & Wall Sockets- Vid's Guide


By vid1900

6 years ago

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  • 245 posts
  • 78 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 25 days ago by Grefla
  • Topic is favorited by 303 Pinsiders

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    There are 245 posts in this topic. You are on page 5 of 5.
    #201 2 years ago
    Quoted from slgerber:

    Wow, 4 meter power cord, seems long but ok.

    In the States, code is nowadays 2 meters between outlets, but I've been in plenty of older basements and bars where they are much farther apart than that.

    I like to be able to pull a game out from the row for service, and still have it plugged in.

    That's why high end fridges have long cords & water lines, you can pull them out from the alcove to clean behind them - without going through any acrobatics re-plugging them

    #202 2 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    You can add one, but they did not come standard on Williams games until latter.

    So Vid, I am going with whatever you say. Should I add one or is it not necessary? I am going with a 5 amp fuse but will the thermistor lesson shock on startup? If it will provide some benefit, any at all, it's worth the $2.50 while I have it open to install it.

    Quoted from vid1900:

    The heavier gauge of the cord, the better made it is (better plug, better jacket).

    I got a medical grade cord. It's well made and since I have no idea where this machine will end up, I didn't want anyone to even consider an extension cord.

    Thanks in advance.

    ///Rich

    #203 2 years ago
    Quoted from RichWolfson:

    I got a medical grade cord.

    Those are nice!

    Quoted from RichWolfson:

    Should I add one or is it not necessary?

    I don't add them, so it's hard to tell someone else they should.

    #204 2 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Those are nice!

    I don't add them, so it's hard to tell someone else they should.

    Perfect. And I appreciate the candidness.

    I can button up the machine tonight now that I don't have to try to source the thermistor.

    And for the record, I learned a LOT from this thread. Things you don't think about as I do what I can to keep the Pin•Bot humming.

    ///Rich

    Added over 2 years ago:

    After a week it's still working fine which was not unexpected. I replaced the 8 amp fuse with a 3 amp fuse and it's been great for a week. I have a Save-A-Watt attached and it never went above 2.25 amps. But I have a 4 amp fuse ready to go just in case.. ///Rich

    7 months later
    #205 1 year ago

    I am renovating an Aces & Kings (Williams 1970) and have discovered that the main current cable isn't grounded.

    Therefore I am going to change the cable to a grounded one. Does it matter how the live and neutral wires are soldered to 1 and 2 in the image below? Usually, it doesn't matter but since this is an old machine I thought I would ask...

    Ground (resized).jpg
    #206 1 year ago
    Quoted from nibre:

    I am renovating an Aces & Kings (Williams 1970) and have discovered that the main current cable isn't grounded.
    Therefore I am going to change the cable to a grounded one. Does it matter how the live and neutral wires are soldered to 1 and 2 in the image below? Usually, it doesn't matter but since this is an old machine I thought I would ask...[quoted image]

    See this post:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/replacing-line-cords-plugs-wall-sockets-vids-guide#post-1945124

    AND review the entire thread for additional background and safety tips...

    #207 1 year ago
    Quoted from nibre:

    I am renovating an Aces & Kings (Williams 1970) and have discovered that the main current cable isn't grounded.
    Therefore I am going to change the cable to a grounded one. Does it matter how the live and neutral wires are soldered to 1 and 2 in the image below? Usually, it doesn't matter but since this is an old machine I thought I would ask...[quoted image]

    I just picked up an early 1960’s EM that has one half of a line cord running to the transformer and the other part running to a ground much like yours. There is no fuse nearby like many other EM’s. I assume I could just ground to the transformer case rather than one of those little guys?

    #208 1 year ago
    Quoted from Murphdom:

    I assume I could just ground to the transformer case rather than one of those little guys?

    Don't assume. Read the post and do as it says. Here is the link again: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/replacing-line-cords-plugs-wall-sockets-vids-guide#post-1945124

    3 months later
    #209 1 year ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Finally, run a Ground Braid to the metal Legs, Coin Door, Lock Down Bar and Rails of the machine. This will protect the user by making those parts a better path to ground than the player himself is.

    Where do you get the ground braid to do this? Also I plan to get the 3 prong plug at HF but what kind of power cord do you recommend for re-wiring a 1950's EM?

    #210 1 year ago
    Quoted from PinballFever:

    Where do you get the ground braid to do this? Also I plan to get the 3 prong plug at HF but what kind of power cord do you recommend for re-wiring a 1950's EM?

    I found the answer. Thanks.
    A: You can buy a 15 foot, 16 gauge, white or black extension cord from any hardware store (don't buy orange, or you will look like an amateur ), and cut off the female end.

    #211 1 year ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Finally, run a Ground Braid to the metal Legs, Coin Door, Lock Down Bar and Rails of the machine. This will protect the user by making those parts a better path to ground than the player himself is.

    Is the Ground Braid needed for Woodrail pinballs with wood rails, wood legs, wood lock down bar and wood coin door?

    #212 1 year ago
    Quoted from PinballFever:

    Is the Ground Braid needed for Woodrail pinballs with wood rails, wood legs, wood lock down bar and wood coin door?

    Wood is generally a poor conductor so wooden items are generally not grounded. If you have metal things that could easily come in contact with something that carries current consider connecting ground braid to that thing.

    #213 1 year ago
    Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

    Wood is generally a poor conductor so wooden items are generally not grounded. If you have metal things that could easily come in contact with something that carries current consider connecting ground braid to that thing.

    That's what I was thinking too. The transformer is in the backbox instead of the cabinet. I'll just hook the ground to it from the new electric cord.

    1 month later
    #214 1 year ago

    I picked a William's 1974 EM - and the 2 prong line cord was pretty crappy. So I went looking through this thread for tips.

    I found a couple of things in my machine which confuse and/or concern me.

    a) There appears to be a green ground wire near where the 2-wire line cord comes in but it's obviously not connected to the 2-wire cord. It's just capped off. (see photo)
    b) There was a green ground connected to the transformer - but someone clipped it clean off. (see photo)
    c) There was a green ground wire that came up in the bundle to the start button, but that was clipped off of something too (see photo).
    d) There is a green ground wire attached the plate the power switch is mounted on (no photo).

    So I have a couple of questions -
    1) Why would have someone clipped those connections?
    2) What was the ground wire in the bundle near the start button attached to? The leg (front left)?
    3) Where else should I look for clipped ground wires?

    Thanks for any help or tips -

    John

    IMG_2412_mod (resized).jpgIMG_2410_mod (resized).jpgIMG_2411_mod (resized).jpg
    4 months later
    #215 8 months ago

    Some newer william games do not have a MOV in the power box. Can these machines be converted to 230v by simply changing the wires on the connector plug, without worrying about having it blow out a MOV?

    3 months later
    #216 5 months ago

    Replacing the line cord on Panthera (sys 80)

    Do I have these wires right?

    18C98EB6-47FC-47FE-8BD6-C277A2F444F4 (resized).jpeg
    #218 5 months ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    Replacing the line cord on Panthera (sys 80)
    Do I have these wires right?[quoted image]

    It appears so. The side of the cord with the ribbing should be the neutral.

    #219 5 months ago

    Okay thanks. That right side is the one with the ribbing.

    #220 5 months ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    Okay thanks. That right side is the one with the ribbing.

    I always meter it out. Left prong that is larger should be neutral.

    Also, Panthera was my first ever pin in 2003. Got me in and hooked on pin collecting. My next pin was a NIB TSPP.

    #221 5 months ago

    hey guys my '58 williams p&b power line runs thru back slot in cabinet to a soder pad in the back but the transfomer is in the front of the machine ,do i splice a ground wire to reach the trans. foot ?

    #222 5 months ago
    Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:

    I always meter it out. Left prong that is larger should be neutral.
    Also, Panthera was my first ever pin in 2003. Got me in and hooked on pin collecting. My next pin was a NIB TSPP.

    Didn’t know that RC! I have a NOs backglass coming from Mayfair soon, then this will be a super nice example.

    #223 5 months ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    Replacing the line cord on Panthera (sys 80)
    Do I have these wires right?[quoted image]

    You did not show the other side of the filter, but you have correctly identified the incoming wires.

    #224 5 months ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    You did not show the other side of the filter, but you have correctly identified the incoming wires.

    Welcome back vid! Glad to see you've returned.

    1 week later
    #225 4 months ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    You did not show the other side of the filter, but you have correctly identified the incoming wires.

    Welcome back. 2020 looking up.

    #226 4 months ago

    Hello all. I just picked up a 1991 Williams Hurricane from a friend who let me know beforehand that the game occasionally shocks him and his kids while playing, usually from the side rails. I do not want to experience this having 2 small children that will be playing the game frequently.

    I have read this entire post a couple of times (thank you all for this amazing wealth of information) and now feel confident that I can handle at least part of what lies ahead, but I have questions on a few items. I am confident that the outlet I am using is properly installed as I just had a licensed electrician do the electrical as part of a new wall I just had constructed.

    What I've done so far:
    0. I've plugged in the machine and see that it turns on properly and plays.
    1. I've followed the ground braiding around the entire machine and everything seems to be connected without breaks.
    2. I opened the line filter assembly and see that the game may have been re-imported since there is EUR color-coded wiring (Blue, Brown, Green/Yellow). I will move forward with replacing the cord with 16/3 awg. Below is the splice I will be replacing with a full new cord from the wall plug all the way to the line filter assembly.
    Power Cable Splice.jpg

    Questions:
    1. Since my MOV and Thermistor both have black colored disks, how do I know if they've already "sacrificed" themselves. Further, how can I tell what voltage they are manufactured for? I don't see any markings that denote voltage like 130V. Should I just assume that since the wire was EU coded that whomever did that switch also switched these to the 275V and I should replace anyway with a lower voltage rating?

    2. Downstream from the power supply but before the plastic connector to the transformer there is a splice job. Can I just properly cap this and then re-tape or is there something else I need to do here?
    Power Splices.jpg

    3. At the plastic connector between the power supply and the transformer, several wires are cut on both sides of the plastic connector. Is this okay? When turned on, the game seems to fully function. What do these cords normally do? If it's okay, please let me know, if not, please let me know what I need to do next to fix.
    A view of the cut wires before the connector and another view of the power supply splices
    Cut wires on Power Filter Side of connector.jpg
    A view of the plastic connector on the side of the transformer
    Cut wires on Transformer Side of connector.jpg

    4. Finally, at the transformer itself, there are 2 different sets of wires spliced together. A Black/White-Brown splice and a Brown/White-Black splice...is this okay? If so, I intend on replacing the electrical tape with a proper cap and then tape it again. If not, what do I do next here?
    Spliced wires on the transformer itself
    Transormer Splices.jpg

    Thank you all very much.

    Added 133 days ago:

    anyone around this thread anymore? vid1900 or anyone else who can help.
    Update on my MOV, it’s a TNR 15g431KM and my Thermistor is a KCC CL-30. Should they be replaced for a US based machine?
    Thank you!

    4 weeks later
    #227 3 months ago

    Vid, is this line filter wired correctly
    Line side: top side
    (ribbed) is left neutral
    Right hot

    Load side:
    This seems to disagree with you
    I wired it as it was previous
    Brown to white
    Blue to black
    Reading your guide it seems opposite.
    This was wired up previously but in a non working game.

    image (resized).jpg
    #228 3 months ago
    Quoted from Mazinga111:

    Since my MOV and Thermistor both have black colored disks, how do I know if they've already "sacrificed" themselves. Further, how can I tell what voltage they are manufactured for? I don't see any markings that denote voltage like 130V. Should I just assume that since the wire was EU coded that whomever did that switch also switched these to the 275V and I should replace anyway with a lower voltage rating?

    Since it's a reimport, I'd assume that everything is incorrect

    The parts from GPE are so cheap, no reason not to properly protect the game

    #229 3 months ago
    Quoted from Mazinga111:

    Downstream from the power supply but before the plastic connector to the transformer there is a splice job. Can I just properly cap this and then re-tape or is there something else I need to do here?

    I'd gently suggest that you crimp new ends on new wire

    Any splices are always going to put the game into doubt

    Someone here can post pics of how those connectors should be wired, and you can refer to the back pages of the manual

    #230 3 months ago

    Thank you vid1900, much appreciated.
    I will replace the two spliced wires and replace the MOV and Thermostor as well.
    I’m keeping my fingers crossed that someone can post how those wires should be connected properly on the transformer.
    Happy New Year!

    #231 3 months ago
    Quoted from Madmax541:

    I wired it as it was previous
    Brown to white, Blue to black
    Reading your guide it seems opposite.
    This was wired up previously but in a non working game.

    Brown should be hot, so fix that.

    Otherwise you will get your cock zapped if you try to squeeze between 2 games, reaching for the backbox.

    1 week later
    #232 3 months ago

    Hi Vid, I’ve been working on a SnS that hade the issue with shock when touching another game. So after a long time troubleshooting I found that on the traffo/powersupply J2 on pin 7 hade 230v (Europe) and that should be ac-return. Pin 6 should be ac-in. Can you confirm if this is the cause to the problem? Have I solved it?
    The colors in connector was wright and on picture I have changed the ac-in to pin 6. Maybe someone tampered with the cables from the on/off switch?

    952C444D-65C1-4BD2-AE00-A3DAA96ADAE1 (resized).jpeg
    #233 3 months ago

    Hoping someone can assist me with this one.

    Was working on a Solar Fire, and I noticed a hum coming from the base of the game when the game was off. It's a very low hum.

    Checked the wall outlet, fine. Checked the ground of the plug to the lockdown bar, fine. Checked the transformer, all voltages appear to be good. Everything else in the game works fine.

    Pulled the line use out, and the hum still continues. So don't believe it's the transformer, but the line. The service outlet is measuring 125. MOV looks fine, could it be a faulty noise filter?

    Any idea what this could be? Here are a few pics. Thanks.

    IMG-2069 (resized).jpgIMG-2070 (resized).jpg
    #234 3 months ago

    If you unplug it, does the game still hum?"

    "

    #235 3 months ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    If you unplug it, does the game still hum?"
    "

    No, only when plugged in and turned off.

    #236 3 months ago
    Quoted from Methos:No, only when plugged in and turned off.

    Check with your meter if the Hot and Neutral are reversed.

    The switch should cut the HOT wire off

    1 month later
    #237 59 days ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    The factory put that plastic plug in for export games.
    Pull the plastic plug out.
    Push the new service outlet receptacle all the way into the hole until it snaps in.
    Hot (Black) conductor gets soldered to the small slot.
    Neutral (White) goes to the larger slot.
    Ground (Green) wire goes to the ground pin hole.
    Use 14 gauge or heavier stranded wire. (some Marco plugs come with the wire already installed, in that case you don't have to worry about it).
    [quoted image]

    I know this is a mega old thread but I need to ask, as I am actually fixing this in my game:

    Why is 14 AWG wire called for the service outlet when the cable that goes from the wall to the in line filter is typically a 18 AWG cable?

    what is the benefit of using thicket wire just at the service outlet?

    I am asking this because I am replacing the power cord in my game and the cable I got from Marcos is a 18/3 15 feet long.

    #238 58 days ago
    Quoted from Ottawaflip:

    Why is 14 AWG wire called for the service outlet when the cable that goes from the wall to the in line filter is typically a 18 AWG cable?

    what is the benefit of using thicket wire just at the service outlet?

    I am asking this because I am replacing the power cord in my game and the cable I got from Marcos is a 18/3 15 feet long.

    The wiring gauge is for the total amperage of the circuit.

    No one assumes that a single 3A pinball load will be the only thing plugged into a 15A circuit. There might be 6 duplexes along the walls or even in other rooms all daisy chained into a single 14 gauge romex running back to the 15A breaker.

    In your kitchen, you have 12 gauge (thicker) wire, because that is a 20A circuit. The electrician knew that you would have a bunch of high-current appliances all running at the same time.

    Your Stove is on a 50A breaker with super thick 6 gauge wire, but because it is the only thing on the circuit, it's breaker is much closer to the actual load.

    18ga cable is on the thinner side for sure.

    You could get a 16, 14 or 12 gauge extension cord at Menards for cheap, and have all the sexy colors to match your game....

    3700581-1 (resized).jpgSENS516835_back (resized).jpg
    #239 58 days ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    The wiring gauge is for the total amperage of the circuit.
    No one assumes that a single 3A pinball load will be the only thing plugged into a 15A circuit. There might be 6 duplexes along the walls or even in other rooms all daisy chained into a single 14 gauge romex running back to the 15A breaker.
    In your kitchen, you have 12 gauge (thicker) wire, because that is a 20A circuit. The electrician knew that you would have a bunch of high-current appliances all running at the same time.
    Your Stove is on a 50A breaker with super thick 6 gauge wire, but because it is the only thing on the circuit, it's breaker is much closer to the actual load.

    Sorry I am still confused. I understand the analogy you used but I was referring to the service plug inside the cabinet.
    I believe you are calling for 14G inside the cabinet (just for the plug on the box inside the cab) -- and here is where I am confused -- The cable that power this service outlet, in my case, would be an 18G power cord I got from Marcos....

    Would it not be acceptable to use the same cable (18g) in the service outlet as it is for the rest of the cord going onto the wall?

    or on the flip side, should not I use a 14G for the power cord, since it is being suggested to use a 14G for the service outlet?

    I do not understand why it is suggested to use a lower gauge for the power cords but a thicker at the service plug...

    I do understand the wall outlet might have multiple things connected and might need a thicker gauge, which is the reverse logic being applied to the power box inside the cab (thicker cable for just the service plug and lesser for the power cord)...

    So in other words, and because I will only be using the service plug for a soldering iron, would it be safe to say that 18G wire would suffice in my application, and also match the rest of the wiring?
    or on the flip side, if I am using 14G for the service outlet, might as well also use a 14G for the power cord?

    #240 58 days ago

    Again, you likely won't ever have 15A of current being drawn from the game's outlet

    But it certainly won't hurt to use heavier duty wire

    Some "stabber" wire connections on the back of the outlets only accept 14ga solid wire, where as the screw terminal ones can accept 12 to 20ga

    #241 58 days ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Again, you likely won't ever have 15A of current being drawn from the game's outlet
    But it certainly won't hurt to use heavier duty wire
    Some "stabber" wire connections on the back of the outlets only accept 14ga solid wire, where as the screw terminal ones can accept 12 to 20ga

    gotcha! sorry I repeated myself, I think I wrote my last message as you were changing yours on the top and missed the second half and when I saw it you had already answered my last question.

    Thanks for all the info you have put into the forum over the years. I have read a lot of your threads! all very useful info.

    I am in the process on rewiring J115 (I think it is the secondary power from the transformer)... I have some questions about that so I am sure I will find a thread about it! and I am sure it might be yours. lol..

    Thanks again

    1 month later
    #242 26 days ago

    Just checking that I have the correct thermistor and varistor in my TZ. My game label shows it is a 120V domestic North American machine.

    I show "PH NTC 2.5 Ohms" which I believe is the thermistor and for the varistor I show "TNR 15G211KM".

    Pic is below.

    Are these correct for a domestic North American machine?

    IMG_3991 (resized).jpg
    #243 25 days ago

    ^ looks correct.

    #244 25 days ago

    Thank you Vid.

    One more question if I may. I opened up my Road Show to check it as well. The inside label shows 120V but it came with a coin door labelled for francs so who knows.

    When I opened it up it has a CL-30 thermistor but there is no varistor/mov anywhere that I can see. Is that normal for a WPC-S machine like Road Show?

    Here are pics:

    IMG_3994 (resized).jpgIMG_3995 (resized).jpg
    #245 25 days ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    CLASSIC BALLY SOLID STATE GAMES
    ==================================
    Note that on Classic Bally games, the Hot and Neutral wires are exactly opposite of the Williams configuration.
    [quoted image]

    Quoted from vid1900:

    CLASSIC BALLY SOLID STATE GAMES
    ==================================
    Note that on Classic Bally games, the Hot and Neutral wires are exactly opposite of the Williams configuration.
    [quoted image]

    Hi Vid. It seems this is not always the case. Thank goodness for the clarity of your posts I was able to work it out.

    In these 2 photos the line cord with the red live wire is in my centaur 2 and the brown live cord is I’m my Medusa. They are mirrors of each other.

    Regardless of the orientation of the filter, downstream the hot wire is connected to the black cabinet wire and the neutral to the white in both machines as can be seen in the pictures.

    094CD8EB-2779-4CFD-A95E-6449A2846048 (resized).jpeg6B6899E1-AC8A-4832-A175-F2BEFC7CC004 (resized).jpeg
    There are 245 posts in this topic. You are on page 5 of 5.

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