Quoted from driskel:Thank you. That was my exact question.
By the way: I hate it, when a seller does not provide datasheets. I cannot see any datasheet for the Marco-Parts.
Attached is a datasheet for a similar part and you can see the schematic of such a part - only for your interest. ...
Look, how cheap these parts are here in germany, and this is even a good 10A part:
Had a new one happen this weekend. Party of 50 or so people. Had a 4 player game on Dipsy Doodle raging. After some nudging the backbox back panel unlocked, the panel fell out of the game, and severed the power cord of the jungle Queen sitting next to it. Haha.
My question is, any reason why I shouldn’t just splice the severed cord back together rather than replace?
Quoted from chuckwurt:Had a new one happen this weekend. Party of 50 or so people. Had a 4 player game on Dipsy Doodle raging. After some nudging the backbox back panel unlocked, the panel fell out of the game, and severed the power cord of the jungle Queen sitting next to it. Haha.
My question is, any reason why I shouldn’t just splice the severed cord back together rather than replace?
1.) because thats botch
2.) safety reasons
3.) replacement cord is not expensive
4.) replacing the cord takes less time than soldering, isolating etc.
5.) looks ugly
Just my few cents ....
Quoted from chuckwurt:My question is, any reason why I shouldn’t just splice the severed cord back together rather than replace?
Do it right and replace the entire cord.
Splice will not pass any inspector, it's not code.
If your wife ever sells it after you are gone, the whole game will be called into question because of the splice.
Quoted from vid1900:Do it right and replace the entire cord.
Splice will not pass any inspector, it's not code.
If your wife ever sells it after you are gone, the whole game will be called into question because of the splice.
Dammit you guys! You’re supposed to say splice away. Haha. Okay new cord it is.
Quoted from chuckwurt:Dammit you guys! You’re supposed to say splice away. Haha. Okay new cord it is
Up the INsurance and splice away. Also delete your posts. 
I just replaced the old cord on my Williams Swinger and whenever I have the machine plugged in and flip the switch underneath it will automatically turn on and keep going through the reset functions. Any idea what is causing this? To my knowledge I installed the new cord correctly (Ribbed/yellow replaced with new white, smooth/brown replaced with black, the old wire was not connected to the ground but I have tried both ways)
Any help you can provide would be much appreciated!
Quoted from Wifflenut:I just replaced the old cord on my Williams Swinger and whenever I have the machine plugged in and flip the switch underneath it will automatically turn on and keep going through the reset functions. Any idea what is causing this? To my knowledge I installed the new cord correctly (Ribbed/yellow replaced with new white, smooth/brown replaced with black, the old wire was not connected to the ground but I have tried both ways)
Any help you can provide would be much appreciated!
Probably not the cord itself, but something you bumped while installing it.
Assuming it worked properly before.
Quoted from vid1900:Probably not the cord itself, but something you bumped while installing it.
Assuming it worked properly before.
Yeah... We just moved in to our new house and I forgot to do a full diagnostics before replacing the cord. During the move some of the coin door got messed up and it was thinking it kept getting a new quarter. Sorry to waste your time with my ignorance! Thanks for the help Vid!
Quoted from vid1900:Yes, the 130V would be well worth the $1.
The lower the clamping voltage, the better the protection.
At my job, when we have MOVs that fail yearly in a certain location, we install a few MOVs in parallel in the same holes of the circuit board.
This allows them to "share the load".
Our engineers say that 2 MOV in parallel will survive 5x longer than a single in the same situation. 3 MOVs will last 20x longer....
hey vid this is my Johnny mnemonic and yesterday my machine completely stopped working during a storm and it caused my flipptronics 2 board to burn diodes and blew my main fuses in power box.from what I can tell this is wired as mov but this is a thermistor not a mov.how do I i fix this?
20180906_191610 (resized).jpgbc it played just fine until it didnt at that moment and do you think I can get a rottendog replacement board flipptronic and everything would be fine and just put a mov on in the power box
A Thermistor is one type of protection, and a MOV another.
Both have a job to do, when they fail replace with the proper component.
Remember that re-import games often will have 240v components that need to swapped to 130v parts.
I feel i I should put a mov in the position this thermistor is and move the thermistor to where it's attaching the line fuse as you specified in your picture.please help bc i I have no idea what I'm doing and this game is sold pending me fixing this as quick as i can.thank you so much in advance friends
^ keep the game like the factory made it.
You can't just swap the MOV and Thermistor - bad things will happen.
The cord plugs into a metal silver filter module at the back of the cab, sometimes with a rubber boot over the terminals.
If there is a MOV, it is often under the boot, across the two terminals.
I don't see one but I believe it was a freak accident and if i I just replace the flipptronics board it should be ok right
Quoted from radfordian3505:I don't see one but I believe it was a freak accident and if i I just replace the flipptronics board it should be ok right
Well.....
You have to see why the game does not boot.
See if you have power, then see if the MPU has power, then go from there.
Open a "storm killed my JM thread", and we'll figure it out.
I need to replace the line filter in my Haunted House. Should I also add a MOV and thermistor while I'm at it? It didn't have one originally. Has anyone done this on a System 80 game and have a picture?
Quoted from solarvalue:I need to replace the line filter in my Haunted House. Should I also add a MOV and thermistor while I'm at it? It didn't have one originally. Has anyone done this on a System 80 game and have a picture?
As it is not much work, it is a good idea.
Look at my grafic here:
In the grafic, it is a system 1, but it is same for system 80. Look for the correct varistor value for your country. NTC can become very hot, so it must be installed in a position, where nothing can burn!!! CAUTION, you work on the high voltage side!!!!!
Quoted from german-pinball:Look at my grafic here:
Awesome, thanks so much.
One question, how do you secure the NTC in the cabinet?
Quoted from solarvalue:Awesome, thanks so much.
One question, how do you secure the NTC in the cabinet?
I do not know the english word, in german it is "Lüsterklemme". It is a connector you see in the following picture. Important is, that it is of ceramic or porcelain. If you see the part, you at once know, what I mean.
In my sys 1 machines I screw this part to the cabinet and then connect the NTC. The lead of the NTC I put through BOTH srews - but pictures say more than words, so please see the picture.
Always be aware, that the old Gottiebs are imho dangerous inside the cabinet concerning safety. There is no good isolation of nearly all HOT mains wires. I never would allow my my children and my guest, to touch anything inside the cabinet. From the elctric point of view from today, it is criminal dangerous, only my few cents.
Hope, the picture helps you.
Varistor is easier to install, you can simpy solder it the the input of the line filter.
I've gotten into the habit of using the DVM set to AC to check between the lock bars, etc between games. All of them to date have shown zero but I just ran across a pair of machines that show just over 50v. Immediately unplugged them. One has had the end replaced with a grounded connector as it should. The other has the original end but the ground tab was broken off. I am going to replace the whole cord at some point but for now will install a new grounded connector.
So I will get that new grounded plug on the machine and check again. If there is still a voltage difference I'll have to take apart the connector on the other game to see if who ever installed it connected the leads backwards.
Either way I plan to get to the bottom of it asap since I want them to be safe to play. Until then those two games stay unplugged.
If you haven't checked lately it only takes a moment to use your meter across neighboring games to see if there are issues to be addressed.
Quoted from Robotworkshop:New grounded plug fixed the issue.
You're getting current where it doesn't belong. A properly grounded game will dissipate that current safely but doesn't address the source of the problem.
It looks to me like according to the classic Bally games, my older Stern is wired incorrectly? Is this a correct assumption? It looks to resemble more the wiring from the Williams games.
In this pic, the ribbed plug side is soldered to the right lug, the ground to the center and the smooth plug side soldered to the left tab.
The wires leaving leaving the transformer:brown wire is wired to two white wires, while the blue wire is connected to two black wires.
Should I follow how this wiring is currently? Or change the wiring? I know the game powered on when it was sold to me, but I have not powered it on since.
Thanks for any help, this is one of the last steps I need to do (replace the 3 prong cord) because the ground is snapped off of the one on there now.
powerin (resized).jpgA friends Black Rose is blowing the 5A fuse in the line filter when power on. Even with the transformer unplugged. So we think the problem is one of the components in the line filter.
Does these components work for replacement?
https://int.rsdelivers.com/product/te-connectivity/5vk1/te-connectivity-5vk1-powerline-filter-281in/7820968
https://uk.farnell.com/littelfuse/v275la20ap/varistor-mov-275v-369v-rad/dp/1057202?ost=V275LA20A&ddkey=https%3Aen-GB%2FElement14_United_Kingdom%2Fsearch
https://uk.farnell.com/amphenol-advanced-sensors/cl-30/ntc-thermistor-2r5-disc-19-56mm/dp/2847994?st=8AMP%202.5%20R25
https://uk.farnell.com/littelfuse/03420038h/fuse-holder-6-3x32mm-20a-250v/dp/2840066
IMG_1654 2 (resized).jpgQuoted from Pinball_Nate:It looks to me like according to the classic Bally games, my older Stern is wired incorrectly? Is this a correct assumption? It looks to resemble more the wiring from the Williams games.
In this pic, the ribbed plug side is soldered to the right lug, the ground to the center and the smooth plug side soldered to the left tab.
We have to keep everything consistent:
Smooth Wire = Hot
Brown Wire = Hot
Black Wire = Hot
Your game ends up being correct in the long run, but the obviously the brown & blue jumper wires are reversed.
Hard to tell from the pic, but if you have enough length on the black & white wire lead, you could just remove the blue and brown jumpers, and put the black wires directly on the smooth side of the filter, and the white wires on the ribbed side.
Thanks Vid, I do have enough wire, so that would probably be the way to go, I want
to undo the electrical tape and see if those wires are soldered or simply twisted together.
Getting close to firing this pin up!!
Best, Nate
Hello:
I have a "reimported" Flight 2000 (this is my first machine). Here is the inside where the power cord connects to the game. Outside of the game, it looks like the European cable was cut then spliced with a length of US extension cord with a 3 prong plug. I'd like to replace the entire cord to get rid of the silly looking splice. Earlier in the thread, Vid noted what wire of the European cord corresponds to the US ones - so I think I am OK there just swapping one for one. Does the rest look wired correctly? Can you tell if the MOV is 130V or 275V and I do not see a thermistor as has been discussed earlier - should I install that as well? Lastly, should I replace the on/off toggle switch on the bottom of the playfield?
What I am trying to accomplish is to ensure that the game is safe to play - I have no idea who did the conversion back to 110V from 220V. Currently all seems to work well over the month or so we have had the game and while I am prone to let sleeping dogs lie, I would like to have a better looking power cord.
Thanks!
Jim
Power (resized).jpgQuoted from Winger03:Is it OK to coil up a little of the length into the cabinet?
Define "a little". As long as its not going to interfere with anything or lay somewhere to rub through the insulation and eventually short out it's fine.
If you're trying to store a few thousand feet for your next 457 projects no.
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:Define "a little". As long as its not going to interfere with anything or lay somewhere to rub through the insulation and eventually short out it's fine.
If you're trying to store a few thousand feet for your next 457 projects no.
HA! Just about 2 feet or so. I'll coil and make sure it is free from obstructions. Thanks!
Jim
Flipped Meteor on yesterday - and Nothing!!!
Is it possible if you switched the neutral and hot wires when soldering the plug to the filter that you would get absolutely no juice into the game at all??
I'm hoping so!
-Nate
Quoted from Pinball_Nate:Is it possible if you switched the neutral and hot wires when soldering the plug to the filter that you would get absolutely no juice into the game at all??
It would probably still turn on.
Don't guess, get your meter out and make sure you have power at the wall outlet, and the inlet of the line filter
Quoted from vid1900:It would probably still turn on.
Don't guess, get your meter out and make sure you have power at the wall outlet, and the inlet of the line filter
Ok, I'll check it out. I definitely have power at the outlet - I'll check the in lines on the line filter.
Crap.
I've had my Pin•Bot for over 20 years and just noticed that the line cord was spliced and the ground prong was broken off the plug. I purchased a 15 ft medical grade cord and started to replace it this evening. I noticed there is no thermistor and none noted on the schematic in the manual. Should find one and install it? Hopefully my local electrical supply place will have one or the one remaining electronics store in the area which is always a fun stop.
But since it has been working fine since 1986 without it I was wondering if it was worth the, as small as it will be, effort to install one. The MOV looks brand new as does the filter so those will remain.
Thanks again Vid for starting this thread and for everyone who participates. There is no better information anywhere.
///Rich
PS-One other observation. There is a discussion or 18ga or 16ga cords. I went with the 18ga one as it was the same size as the original (before the splice). But the leads of the thermistor is clearly smaller than 18ga as is the small wire from my fuse (I changed it from 8 to 5 amps) to the filter. What am I missing in that it has to pass whatever the machine will draw. Doesn't that suggest that the 18ga power cord is plenty large?
PS-One other observation. There is a discussion or 18ga or 16ga cords. I went with the 18ga one as it was the same size as the original (before the splice). But the leads of the thermistor is clearly smaller than 18ga as is the small wire from my fuse (I changed it from 8 to 5 amps) to the filter. What am I missing in that it has to pass whatever the machine will draw. Doesn't that suggest that the 18ga power cord is plenty large?
You should be fine. 18ga. is good for 10 amps (SO, SJO, and such), 18ga lamp cord is 5 amps.
Quoted from slgerber:...You should be fine. 18ga. is good for 10 amps...
Yes. But the thermistor leads are small and it is in series with the hot and switch taking the full load. Would the thermistor melt because of the current if it got to even 5 amps even though it was zero ohms being hot?
More of a technical question rather than worrying. And also if I should install one where there was none and it's not in the Pin•Bot schematics either.
///Rich
Quoted from slgerber:But the leads of the thermistor is clearly smaller than 18ga as is the small wire from my fuse (I changed it from 8 to 5 amps) to the filter. What am I missing in that it has to pass whatever the machine will draw. Doesn't that suggest that the 18ga power cord is plenty large?
Your power cord is 4 meters long.
You lose some small amount of juice every centimeter of length from resistance.
A fuse or themister is only 3cm long, so we don't lose much across that length.
and, of course....
The heavier gauge of the cord, the less resistance loss.
The heavier gauge of the cord, the better made it is (better plug, better jacket).
Drive once around the block on garbage night, cut the cords off of every fridge and washing machine you see. You will have a lifetime supply of 12 gauge cords.
Quoted from RichWolfson:I noticed there is no thermistor and none noted on the schematic in the manual. Should find one and install it? Hopefully my local electrical supply place will have one or the one remaining electronics store in the area which is always a fun stop.
You can add one, but they did not come standard on Williams games until latter.
Quoted from vid1900:Drive once around the block on garbage night, cut the cords off of every fridge and washing machine you see. You will have a lifetime supply of 12 gauge cords.
Genius.
Quoted from slgerber:Wow, 4 meter power cord, seems long but ok. You're still looking at less than 3/4 volt loss at that length worse case,18 gauge. I would use what you have,12,14,16, 18 gauge.
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Sana'a
Dayton, OH
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