(Topic ID: 16152)

Replacing Insert Decals

By Stack15

11 years ago


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  • 28 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 11 years ago by btrip
  • Topic is favorited by 9 Pinsiders

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#1 11 years ago

First... sorry if I am over-posting. I am having a great time with my pinball machines; yet, I still have so many questions.

My "new" T2 has some very worn insert decals (as seen in the picture) and I have been reading up on how to replace them. First I am looking at purchasing the decals on eBay:

ebay.com link: TERMINATOR 2 Pinball Machine Insert Decals LICENSED

And then I'd like to add mylar from Marco:

http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/03-7960-50013-1

Now for the questions: (1) How hard is this to do? and (2) How exactly do I do it?

I'm thinking an adhesive remover should help get the old decals off. Goo Be Gone? Or something else? I already have Goo Be Gone. I also have one really good exacto knife that should help.

It seems that I will need two pairs of tweezers or something to help install the new decals. I don't want my finger prints all over them.

Now the sheer size of the mylar worries me. Does it stick instantly like decals? If so, it is probably way beyond my skill level to install.

Also, there is a rivet in the playfield where the left side ramp returns the ball to the lane. Is there something I should put over that to keep it from getting worse? It seems like I should do something... just not sure what.

Thanks much!

auto_fire.JPGauto_fire.JPG

#2 11 years ago

The originals that are on the machine are not decals. They were sceened directly on to the inserts when the playfield art was screened. The best way to remove is to scrape them with a razor wthout scratching the insert. The screen art went beyond the insert edge, so don't scrape that.

If you want them to fit directly on each insert, you'll need to custom trimm each one.

The new decals ARE mylared, and they should be reverse print, so the lettering is on the sticky side and won't wear away.

#3 11 years ago

As the previous poster said, those aren't decals, they're screened. Furthermore, the art appears to all still be there. The clear has chipped around the insert, probably because the insert is slightly raised. Why are you talking about replacing them!? That would be 50x the amount of work.

If the inserts are raising, we need to get them back down. Easiest way is a hair dryer underneath the insert, on high, for about 3 minutes or until hot to the touch. Don't worry, a hair dryer won't get hot enough to melt the insert... a heat gun will though in a matter of seconds, so don't use a heat gun! Then take a wooden block bigger than the insert, place it on top of the insert, and use a rubber mallet to tap it back down. Repeat this until the insert is flush with the playfield. Once flush, take some water thin super glue and, from underneath the playfield, place a drop or two here and there where the insert meets the wood. Capillary action will take effect and suck the glue in and bond the insert to the wood. Now that sucker won't be going anywhere anytime soon.

Then I'd touchup the black border with black water acrylic paint. Going to take a few coats or light will shine through. Then I'd seal it in and rebuild the missing clear little by little with either varathane ,or water thin super glue, from a pipette.

Total time to do this job? Probably 2 hours. If done properly, nobody would ever know something was amiss.

#4 11 years ago

Thanks for the advice on how to lower the inserts. I had been thinking they were slightly raised. I can easily hit all shots in the game. So they aren't all that in the way. I have tried pushing down on them to no avail.

However, I don't see how lining them back up is going to fix the chipped look. I am not sure if the pictures show it very well but the wear is all over the labels and not just on the outsides. I do see the idea with the thin super glue. I am pretty sure that is beyond my skill level.

I will definitely work on lowering the inserts but I think I am going to need the new decals.

So no Goo Be Gone??

#6 11 years ago
Quoted from Stack15:

Thanks for the advice on how to lower the inserts. I had been thinking they were slightly raised. I can easily hit all shots in the game. So they aren't all that in the way. I have tried pushing down on them to no avail.
However, I don't see how lining them back up is going to fix the chipped look. I am not sure if the pictures show it very well but the wear is all over the labels and not just on the outsides. I do see the idea with the thin super glue. I am pretty sure that is beyond my skill level.
I will definitely work on lowering the inserts but I think I am going to need the new decals.
So no Goo Be Gone??

Goo gone isn't even going to dent that stuff. The art is under a few layers of clearcoat.

Lining them back up won't fix the chipped look, but it will get the insert flush with the playfield so you can fill the chip with something clear and strong.

Just laying new decals over it is not going to work unless you first chip off all that clear with a flat blade screwdriver, sand off the existing art, lay the decals down perfect, and then sealing them/building the area back up with clear. This is a lot more work than what I am proposing.

The reason you can't just lay them over that is you essentially have a missing layer of the playfield where the clear is gone! Lay a sheet of paper over those inserts and roll a ball over it... the ball is going to weigh the paper down in the areas where the clear is missing. Same thing is going to happen with a mylar decal. You need to apply the decal to a perfectly flat area or it won't look good, and I guarantee it will NOT look better than it does now.

I really don't see in any of your pictures where there's a problem with any of the art other than the black border. Am I missing something?

This was all beyond my skill level as well, until I got some advice from some knowledgeable people, dove in, learned from my mistakes, and got better at it.

#7 11 years ago

The 4x, 6x multipliers and the 250,000 are the most worn. The autofire decal has some wear at the bottom left. People did warn me about raised inserts but I wasn't really sure if they were raised or not until now. The green area on the CPU isn't so hot either.

250k.JPG250k.JPG 4x.JPG4x.JPG cpu.JPGcpu.JPG

#8 11 years ago

I didn't know what you met by that. So I put it in google... it's the fruniture clear coat stuff! I have that! Brilliant idea!

Now I have to figure out who sells pipettes... Lowes I hope.

It appears the only thing these ideas won't cure is the shoulder of the terminator in the 250,000 area.

#9 11 years ago

Ah, so you do have some art missing on that 250,000 insert.

If you're going to buy the insert decals all I can really advise you to do is make sure those areas are level before applying the decals, otherwise it just won't look that good. If you don't feel comfortable doing it, I'd try finding someone in GA that can. Some waterthin superglue (or varathane), a pipette, and a paper towel is all that is needed to slowly build the chipped areas up. With either product, be sure to build it up little by little, do not just place a huge glob on there as with super glue it will frost, and with varathane it will take a long time to dry and might be soft for awhile. Make sure it is completely dry, then just sand it smooth and polish with some novus 2. After that, lay the decal down, maybe slap a piece of mylar over it, and be done with it.

Or realize T2 is a great game, even if a little art is missing, and just go play the hell out of it and have fun.

Edit: Oh, and pinrestore.com sells some wonderful pipettes for dirt cheap.

If you have absolutely any questions just let me know. I'd be more than happy to answer them.

#10 11 years ago
Quoted from Stack15:

btrip said:varathane
I didn't know what you met by that. So I put it in google... it's the fruniture clear coat stuff! I have that! Brilliant idea!
Now I have to figure out who sells pipettes... Lowes I hope.
It appears the only thing these ideas won't cure is the shoulder of the terminator in the 250,000 area.

Be sure it is water based varathane and not oil based. Oil based tends to yellow as it ages. We wouldn't want that.

#11 11 years ago
Quoted from btrip:

Or realize T2 is a great game, even if a little art is missing, and just go play the hell out of it and have fun.

You are completely right about that. I know the game is 21 years old... so it's not going to be perfect. It plays just fine though.

Thank you for your advice. I am going to skip the new decals and the mylar. I will attempt the hair dryer knock back of the inserts though. I have all that stuff on hand. The big red blocks are kind of raised.

I'd be upset if I paid $1,500 for the game. But at $1,150... I still think I did just fine.

#12 11 years ago
Quoted from btrip:

varathane it will take a long time to dry and might be soft for awhile.

You're completely right there. I have done some furniture restoration in the past and that stuff can take days to dry. I don't think I could go that long without playing.

#13 11 years ago
Quoted from Stack15:

btrip said:Or realize T2 is a great game, even if a little art is missing, and just go play the hell out of it and have fun.
You are completely right about that. I know the game is 21 years old... so it's not going to be perfect. It plays just fine though.
Thank you for your advice. I am going to skip the new decals and the mylar. I will attempt the hair dryer knock back of the inserts though. I have all that stuff on hand. The big red blocks are kind of raised.
I'd be upset if I paid $1,500 for the game. But at $1,150... I still think I did just fine.

Minor teeny tiny insert raising won't be too much of a problem, but if it is affecting the path of the ball, then that's a different story. It's in a home use environment now. Those chips were accumulated over years and years of neglect and probably THOUSANDS of plays. If you keep the playfield waxed and the balls clean you shouldn't see much more chipping to be honest.

If you're not going to restore the inserts, I say leave it be. Better is the enemy of good.

#14 11 years ago

Well that was easy! One rubber mallet, one wooden coaster and about five minutes (okay I skipped the hair dryer thing). All the inserts are nice and level now. In a perfect world, I'd replace the 4x, 6x, autofire and 250k labels.

I usually wax the playfields on my machines every two months while I watch some TV.

I really apperciate your assistance. You saved me about $100 and hours of time. I'd really hate to spend that money and especially the time if I'm not making the machine better.

I have my other three machines where they need to be... well Spiderman needs a code update.

I'd rather be spending my time/money on toppers. I really like that one pascal was posting pictures of on my other thread but it's too big for the pinball machine and would cost too much to ship.

Does anyone have one of these at a good price?

ebay.com link: itm

#15 11 years ago

Even though you got them back down to level, they won't stay there. If you skipped the hair dryer, the glue is still "rubbery," and the insert will eventually raise back to where it was. The hair dryer will soften the glue, you use the mallet and wood block to put in its proper place, and then the water thin super glue will hold it in place. The original glue will now cool in its new position rather than trying to pull the insert back into the raised position.

Not sure if that makes sense.

#16 11 years ago

Yes it makes fine sense. It is just late and I wanted to try out the easy way.

#17 11 years ago

I plan on lowering the inserts and doing the black paint thing. I will eventually try the clear coat thing but it is going to be awhile.

#18 11 years ago
Quoted from btrip:

Total time to do this job? Probably 2 hours. If done properly, nobody would ever know something was amiss.

I agree, why make a bigger job of this than necessary. I've done the replacement decals then clear coat...and it was no picnic.

Robert

#19 11 years ago

Which one of these should work the best to fill in the jagged clear coat areas?

http://www.minwax.com/wood-products/interior-clear-protective-finishes/

#20 11 years ago

Jagged? What exactly are you trying to fill?
That stuff is okay for prepping a cabinet for decals... not sure I'd use it to clearcoat.

#21 11 years ago
Quoted from Drano:

Jagged? What exactly are you trying to fill?

Okay, that's probably the wrong word. Some of the clear coat has worn off the artwork. I was going to purchase new details but apparently that is a HUGE job. Apparently, they can be filled back in with some patient work and the right supplies. I figure I'll try first on the CPU area as I won't see that much if I mess it up.

Please see the above pictures.

#22 11 years ago

Yeah, I saw those pics.
If you really want it nice, it's going to be a lot of work. You can gently apply some clear or even some thin CA glue over inserts or any clearcoat damage. The trick is that when you apply a liquid into a cavity like this it will either dry concave (too low) or you have to apply a little extra so it's sort of rounded. Make sure the playfield is perfectly level so it does not run.
If you can get it to dry a bit raised, then you have to wet-sand it smooth with a flat block so it is perfectly level with the rest of the clear. If you're going that far, you might as well lightly sand the rest of the playfield and just apply a proper clearcoat over it all. If I was going to do this, I would go ahead and take care of the inserts with graphic damage. In that case you would need the insert decals that are printed ink-up and that don't have any Mylar as you will need to clearcoat over them.
It's a lot of work and I find that any type of "spot" repair never turns out perfectly. It all depends what you're after... a perfect playfield or some basic protection against further damage.

#23 11 years ago
Quoted from Drano:

some basic protection against further damage

I just don't want to make it worse. I really had no idea this would be such a big project. It's gone from "taking off stickers and replacing them with new ones" to "two hours of glue and paint" to "well I don't know where now."

The game plays fine which is the most important thing. I maybe should have paid less but that's in the past now. It really is fun and I'm glad I'm on here talking about cosmetics and not blah, blah doesn't work...

#24 11 years ago

It's a player pin. I would leave it alone personally and just enjoy it.
Maybe keep your eyes open for a playfield to swap out if you really love it. I played T2 to death as a kid and, even though it doesn't get a lot of love, I think it's a great pin. Good looking too!
If it's worth it to you and you dont feel confident in doing the work yourself, you can always entertain having it professionally restored. Some guys will even trade you one that is already restored in exchange for your old one... assuming anyone has one? It's not a high demand PF.

#25 11 years ago

Yeah... PF swap is beyond my skill level or patience level. The game is really, really fun. So fun it makes me wonder why I spent the money on Spiderman or TSPP. There is a noticable quality difference between my T2 and my TAF. However, TAF playfield is completely covered in mylar. I think that protects it.

I didn't realize how picky I was until now. The really cool thing though is how easy it was to move the inserts back down. I'm going to do that again with the heat and glue but when I have a slow weekend.

On a side note, I'm really considering putting money towards Predator.

#26 11 years ago

Insert decals are a mixed bag.

Some of them have accurate dimensions. Some of them have close color matches. Some of them have both, some of them have neither.

It's a real crap shoot IMO. If you are going to put them on T2, you might ask around to see if any other T2 owners have used them, and how close the match is.

Nothing would be worse than spending $50 on insert decals, scraping what is left of the artwork off your insert, and finding out the end result looks as bad if not worse than it did before.

#27 11 years ago

Yes, this thread has removed my desire to replace the decals. I would still like to try my hand at building the coating back up though. Think I will try with the CPU label.

#28 11 years ago
Quoted from Drano:

Jagged? What exactly are you trying to fill?
That stuff is okay for prepping a cabinet for decals... not sure I'd use it to clearcoat.

Polyurethane is an excellent, durable clear. Sure, it's not auto clear, but it is a lot easier to work with. Here's two playfields I've done with waterbased Varathane (just a brand of polyurethane) from a shake can.

As others have said, it is a players machine. But if you REALLY want to go through with this someday, here's some info that might help.

Stack, this is what you want:

http://www.amazon.com/Rust-Oleum-Varathane-200061H-Water-Based-Polyurethane/dp/B000FPCKBW

Most important thing is to first get the playfield perfectly level in all directions. Lift the playfield up and out a little bit and use some cardboard or a 2x4, whatever you can to make sure it is perfectly flat and level. Second most important thing is cleaning any oils, wax, and dust from the area. Wipe it down really well with naphtha. Make sure that insert is CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN. Then just use a pipette, suck a little bit up, and put a little down on the damaged part of insert. Use the pipette to move it around so it covers it. Don't put too much down at a time. If you do put too much on, just empty the pipette, squeeze the bulb when it is empty, and suck some back up. Also do this if you get some bubbles; just suck them up. Once it is dry, see if you're close to getting it levelled with the playfield. If you got a little more to go, wipe area with naphtha, and put down another layer.

Once you're level with the playfield, gently block sand with 400 grit to smooth it, level it, and feather it in. Be careful not to damage the surrounding area. When I say gently I mean gently! Then move to 600 grit, 1500 grit, 2000 grit, and buff it with novus 2 with an orbital buffer, or if you don't have one, hand buff really fast and hard by hand with novus 2 until you get a nice smooth glossy finish.

DSCN0806.JPGDSCN0806.JPG IMAG0110.jpgIMAG0110.jpg

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