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(Topic ID: 267087)

Replacing incorrect flippers that came with a Bally Black Pryamid


By McGrupp

6 months ago



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  • 18 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 months ago by KenLayton
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#1 6 months ago

Hi folks,

I'm helping a buddy get their Black Pyramid back in shape. When we cracked it open we noticed the previous owner had not only put Williams bats on the machine, but also completely swapped the flipper mech to a Williams version(see pics below). I'd like to put the correct (or more correct) flippers and assembly back in this machine, but I'm not sure what to get since most sites don't have a full assembly for this era of Bally games (I guess they used linear ones?).

Before we knew what was under the hood I purchased a flipper rebuild kit for this era of Bally machines: ebay.com link (see pic of it on the playfield). Being pretty new to this, it's a bit over my head. My questions are:

+ Should I just buy a whole new assembly? What one is closer to the stock one that came with Black Pyramid and compatible? https://www.pinballlife.com/search.html?Search=flipper%20assembly
+ Using the rebuild kit I have, what additional parts would I need to buy? (I'll need bats, but what else?)
+ I found this thread, is something like this worth trying? https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers/page/11#post-1855100

I've taken a few pics to give you a sense of what I'm working with. Thanks in advance for any help or guidance here! Feel free to ask any additional questions if there's anything I can help clarify.

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#2 6 months ago

I'd buy the whole mechs from Pinball Life. In addition to the rebuild kits you'd need to buy the baseplates and correct coils, maybe the nyliners and plunger stops (not coil stops - other end) too.

You can use these mechs, they'll work fine and many people actually prefer them.

https://www.pinballlife.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ASE-1587-10x

#3 6 months ago

I don't pinball life has linear flipper bases .... still looking

some suggest using what you probably have in there now .... I would get the bally correct flipper bats though

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers/page/11#post-1855100

#4 6 months ago

Thanks for the guidance! I'll probably do what both of you suggested!

#5 6 months ago

The original complete linear flipper assemblies are these part numbers:

ASE-1587-112 Flipper Assembly Complete, Left (specify coil number)

ASE-1587-111 Flipper Assembly Complete, Right (specify coil number)

Correct original flipper bat/shaft is:

ASE-2214-24 Flipper Bat with shaft assembly, White

Individual parts making up ASE-2214-24:

C-611-5 White Flipper Bat only (use a # 6 by 1/2" long truss head screw to attach)

A-2747-11 Flipper Shoe and Shaft

Individual parts that make up a linear flipper unit:

P-6264-134 Base Plate (used for either left or right, it has holes drilled for either side). Earlier base plate A-613-41 (specify Left or Right) can be used.

A-613-127 Coil Stop

P-108-53 Front coil bracket

S-496-217 Plunger, Linear Flipper

P-6665-637 Stop L Bracket, Right (Marco stocks this)

P-6665-636 Stop L Bracket, Left (Marco stocks this)

C-537-8 Snap-in Nyliner

C-649-53 Nylon Flipper Bushing

A-3711-5 Flipper Pawl, Right

A-3711-4 Flipper Pawl, Left

SP-100-363 Flipper Return Spring

ASE-982-1286 EOS Switch Bracket & Switch Assembly, Right

ASE-982-1285 EOS Switch Bracket & Switch Assembly, Left

Note: the coil stop, EOS bracket, front coil bracket, and nylon bushing can all be attached to the base plate with 8-32 x 3/8" long screws. Some original base plates had the coil stop holes threaded for 10-32 x 3/8" long screws, but other holes were 8-32. The EOS switch is attached to the switch bracket with 5-40 screws of the appropriate length (usually 5/8" long or 3/4" long)

#6 6 months ago

Wow! Thanks for the details!

#7 6 months ago

Pictures from the parts catalogs so you can visualise the part numbers:

First diagram of the late 70's flipper mech (which Pinball Life sell).
Second diagram of the early '80s "linear" flipper mech.

Flipper_Bally-1979b.jpg
Flipper_Bally-1981b.jpg

2 weeks later
#8 5 months ago

Alright, thanks for the tips before. I've followed dothedoo's suggestion and I ordered what I need to do this (I think). In hand I have whole Bally assemblies, one left, one right. https://www.pinballlife.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ASE-1587-10x

My goal: Swap out Williams flippers that the previous owner put in this Black Pyramid for (non-linear) Bally flippers linked above.

My hurdle: Figuring out the wiring configuration for each Bally flipper(and any tips for mounting these correctly).

My question: Do I just mirror the same wiring from the Williams flippers 1 for 1?

From what I've read, there can be differences, so I'm a bit unsure. Also, these Williams flippers are typically flipped 180 in all the references I've seen which makes this extra confusing.

I've attached some images. (1) The left williams flipper, (2) left Bally flipper, (3) right Williams flipper, (4) right Bally flipper.

Would love a little guidance before I put this sucker under the knife.

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#9 5 months ago
Quoted from McGrupp:

My question: Do I just mirror the same wiring from the Williams flippers 1 for 1?
From what I've read, there can be differences, so I'm a bit unsure. Also, these Williams flippers are typically flipped 180 in all the references I've seen which makes this extra confusing.

Attach power wire (brown) to outside lug that has banded end of diode.
Also attach one wire of EOS switch to the same lug.
Attach the other EOS switch wire to the center lug.
Finally, attach the return wire (green or orange) to the last unused lug.

#10 5 months ago

Thank you! I'll report back!

#11 5 months ago

Well, we're half working. Everything's swapped and wired, but only the left flipper works. The right flipper does nothing when the flipper button is pressed. Here's the set up (pics below).

Being a neophyte here, I'm curious how to start debugging. I have a multimeter and assume I could check the connections? Anything look off in the pics?

Thanks for helping me get this far!
IMG_20200516_232951 (resized).jpgIMG_20200516_230832 (resized).jpg

#12 5 months ago
Quoted from McGrupp:

The right flipper does nothing when the flipper button is pressed.
Anything look off in the pics?

Look where you've wired the EOS switch to on the right side coil and compare to the left side
The dark blue wire is on the wrong coil lug - move it from the coil lug with the orange wire to the coil lug with the brown wire.

#13 5 months ago
Quoted from Quench:

Look where you've wired the EOS switch to on the right side coil and compare to the left side
The dark blue wire is on the wrong coil lug - move it from the coil lug with the orange wire to the coil lug with the brown wire.

To verify before moving the wire, if you hold in the right flipper button and lift the flipper by hand, it should pull in and hold itself.

#14 5 months ago

WE.ARE.FLIPPIN!

Thanks for all the help everyone. A little more work and this machine will be ready for prime time!

1 month later
#15 4 months ago

https://www.pinballlife.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ASE-1587-10x

I have the same dilemma. Can i ask why the above is the correct replacement when BP is 1984 and the assembly linked is 1975-80? Thanks

#16 4 months ago
Quoted from KadeP:

https://www.pinballlife.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ASE-1587-10x
I have the same dilemma. Can i ask why the above is the correct replacement when BP is 1984 and the assembly linked is 1975-80? Thanks

It's the same footprint, and as you noted it's not a linear flipper. Personally, I dump the linear flipper from all the machines that I've owned that had them - this is after I rebuilt them as well, the parts are about 4x as expensive, and even in light home use the linear flipper actuator wears and gets flat spots really quickly (causing the flippers to not have the same throw, and slop).

IMO Bally created the linear flipper design because it lasts in the field for a very long time without maintenance - so the game keeps taking money. Perfect for lazy operators!!

Most of the parts are the same between the linear design and the earlier design - if you have serviceable bases, you can rebuild the flipper by replacing the pawl and the plunger/link and reuse the other parts (unless they're worn, like coil stops, EOS, etc). Sure, there's a hole drilled in the stop bracket for the linear actuator, but it doesn't affect the earlier style link at all.

The earlier design gives a zippier flip due to less moving mass of the parts.

#17 4 months ago
Quoted from KadeP:

Can i ask why the above is the correct replacement when BP is 1984 and the assembly linked is 1975-80?

The simple answer is nobody makes complete early 80's linear flipper mechanisms you can buy off the shelf.
Most people prefer the earlier design for the reasons slochar mentioned and thanks to PinballLife, that mech is available.

#18 4 months ago

The earlier mech is superior to the linear assembly IMO. There have been troubles with obtaining all of the parts needed to build a complete linear assembly anyway. Over the past several years, people have reported "sticking" linear flipper assemblies due to magnetized plungers and/or coil stops. The linears are a pain in the ass.

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