(Topic ID: 292483)

Replacement For Those Williams Horseshoe Sliders

By oldschoolbob

7 months ago


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Topic Stats

  • 39 posts
  • 22 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 27 days ago by Impzilla
  • Topic is favorited by 24 Pinsiders

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    12
    #1 7 months ago

    Those horseshoe sliders are a major pain to adjust. And they have to be cleaned and re-adjust often. Some time back I came up with reed switches to replace them. They worked fine but my prototypes were ugly and the glass reed switches were delicate. I worked with someone to get these produced but he lost interest. So, after hours and days of research and testing I came up with the right combination of magnets, sensors, and placement that works great every time. No adjusting. With the help of another PinSider I had printed circuit boards made for single targets. They worked fine so we decided to make multi boards for 3 – 4 – 5 bank targets with the series connections made onboard.

    Let me know what you think. Could this be viable product for the market?

    IMG_7014 (resized).JPGIMG_7019 (resized).JPG
    #2 7 months ago
    Quoted from oldschoolbob:

    Could this be viable product for the market?

    You honestly have to ask? Yes!

    #3 7 months ago
    Quoted from dothedoo:

    You honestly have to ask? Yes!

    I would be interested.

    #4 7 months ago

    There have been a few attempts over the years, but I don't think they've gone beyond the prototyping stage into an actual salable product. I don't think you will have a problem finding buyers for a replacement drop target system. There's a lot of people who are beyond frustrated with the horseshoe style drop target system.

    #6 7 months ago

    Great to see a final product that's also a no maintenance solution!
    When will you be ready to take orders?

    #7 7 months ago

    I'm interested in them for 2-3 different games, maybe more depending on the pricing of course.

    John

    #8 7 months ago

    Selling these as assembled or blank pcb?
    Are you including the magnets as well?
    The cheaper way is the best for me.
    -Mike

    #9 7 months ago

    They come assembled and with magnets.

    Next question then, how do I go about selling them to the public? I don’t have a store or an on-line website. I really don’t know much about sales. I sold a few on Facebook and I started a Facebook page showing these sensors but I don’t think that gets out to the masses:

    https://www.facebook.com/NMP-sensors-105983238292684

    I started a PinSide BIZ here but I don’t know much about it. Would that be a good place to start?

    Ebay is an option but I think I’d have to raise the price for their fees. And Ebay fees are getting ridicules.

    #10 7 months ago
    Quoted from oldschoolbob:

    I started a PinSide BIZ here but I don’t know much about it. Would that be a good place to start?

    Ebay is an option but I think I’d have to raise the price for their fees. And Ebay fees are getting ridicules.

    I just sell on ebay and Pinside. I'm sure you could sell plenty of them just selling with those two. Pinside uses Stripe and there are fees with that as well. If they are dependable I'm sure you will sell plenty of them.

    #11 7 months ago

    Bob
    I just noticed that Vid is reviewing Siegecrafy horseshoe contact replacement boards. You may want to PM him and let him know about yours.

    As for me, I would be happy just to purchase from you based on a Pinside ad and user reviews. So far, knock on wood, Blsckout has been pretty reliable for me, but I’m sure the day is coming when there will be hard failures.

    #12 7 months ago

    Bob;

    Clean looking setup, I know you've been working on these for quite a while.

    -Hans

    #13 7 months ago
    Quoted from Karetaker:

    Pinside uses Stripe and there are fees with that as well.

    Isn't Stripe similar to PayPal? Do I have to switch to Stripe? That could be a deal breaker.

    Thanks Bill, I'll give Vid a heads up.

    Thanks Hans, It's something I wanted to get out to pinballers. I knew if I stuck with it, it would work. I've done three games over the years with reed switches and they all still work great. But if I made something for the market I knew it would have to be clean and simple. It wasn't easy.

    #14 7 months ago

    I don't have a facebook, but I'd love to give those a review.

    #15 7 months ago

    Just got mines, will install in Blackout this weekend and report. Clean work from what I can see already.

    #16 7 months ago
    Quoted from oldschoolbob:

    Isn't Stripe similar to PayPal? Do I have to switch to Stripe? That could be a deal breaker.

    Stripe is just a credit card payment processor. So it is a little different than Paypal. With Stripe your funds aren't available immediately.

    #17 7 months ago

    I just put an ad on PinSide Shops

    https://pinside.com/pinball/market/shops/1320-nmp-sensors/05032-williams-drop-target-sensors

    You can also contact me at [email protected]

    Hope this works.

    Thanks

    Bob

    #18 7 months ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    I don't have a facebook, but I'd love to give those a review.

    Vid, contact me - maybe we can do something.

    Quoted from manples:

    Just got mines, will install in Blackout this weekend and report. Clean work from what I can see already.

    Would like to hear what you think.

    Thanks

    Bob

    #19 7 months ago
    Quoted from Karetaker:

    Stripe is just a credit card payment processor. So it is a little different than Paypal. With Stripe your funds aren't available immediately.

    Stripe are also about 2 million times LESS likely to block your account for stupid reasons. PayPal sucks big time!!

    13
    #20 7 months ago

    Alright, here is a photo report with a bonus video at the end

    First I removed the targets of my Blackout and used one drop of epoxy to glue down the magnets. They are a perfect fit.

    IMG_20210430_195454 (resized).jpg

    IMG_20210430_200913 (resized).jpg

    IMG_20210501_065947__01 (resized).jpg

    Then I followed the instructions on Bob's Facebook page, using his drawings and double-checked with my manual for color code (rows and columns), to start with soldering the jumpers :

    IMG_20210430_201042 (resized).jpg

    IMG_20210430_203638 (resized).jpg

    Then I did cut the wires on the horseshoe sliders, one by one, and soldered them to the boards :

    IMG_20210501_075920__01 (resized).jpg

    Verified the soldering in the back and cut the excess wiring :

    IMG_20210501_075854__01 (resized).jpg

    same treatment for the top bank :

    IMG_20210501_082817 (resized).jpg

    and I reinstalled the banks :

    IMG_20210501_083924__01__01 (resized).jpg

    IMG_20210501_083933__01 (resized).jpg

    Here is the result :

    I've played a dozen games and the targets are perfect, they instantly go down with no resistance at all and very quickly (obviously the absence of friction). I took me about 2 hours overall but I'm slow so it can be done faster.

    Anyway, I'm sold and these NMP sensors will be my standard for my next Williams games. Great job Bob.

    #21 7 months ago

    Nice work on the installation - very clean. And nice review.

    Thank you.

    Bob

    #22 7 months ago
    Quoted from pins4u:

    Stripe are also about 2 million times LESS likely to block your account for stupid reasons. PayPal sucks big time!!

    I can't speak too much about Stripe because I have only had an account with them for a few months. I personally have only ever had a couple of issues with Papal over the many years. But, I have heard some horror stories from people about them.

    #23 7 months ago
    Quoted from Karetaker:

    I can't speak too much about Stripe because I have only had an account with them for a few months. I personally have only ever had a couple of issues with Papal over the many years. But, I have heard some horror stories from people about them.

    Very wise to take heed of other peoples problems with PayPal - they are mostly true (first hand experience) and have sent some small businesses to the wall.

    #24 7 months ago

    I just picked up a Gorgar, i predict a couple of sets of theses are in my future.

    #25 7 months ago

    I tried putting an ad in PinSide shops. The ad says “in maintenance”. I tried to change this to “open” but it says I can’t open until I set up an account with Stripe. I already have a PayPal account and really don’t want to open another. But I tried to set up a Stripe account anyway. It asked for all kinds of personal information. When it asked for my Social Security number I stopped. I don’t freely give out my SS number.

    I guess that means I won’t have an ad here. But if anyone has any questions or wish to place an order you can contact me at [email protected]. (just don’t ask for personal information).

    #26 7 months ago

    I did a video of the install on the NMP-1s. Great product!

    #27 7 months ago
    Quoted from oldschoolbob:

    When it asked for my Social Security number I stopped. I don’t freely give out my SS number

    I would have stopped too. There is a limit and you need to protect yourself.
    -Mike

    #28 7 months ago

    Looks like a great product. I mainly got rid of my Alien Poker because of those horse shoe contacts. I even replaced them all with new, but seemed like I was always adjusting to make them register. I will be ordering some for my Trizone.

    #29 6 months ago

    Troxel,
    Nice video and great explanation of the wiring.
    Thank you.

    #30 6 months ago

    I gave up on opening a PinSide Biz.

    I put an ad in the classifieds section.

    https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/114469

    Like I said before I'm not into sales. I just want to get these into the hands of people that need them.

    Any suggestions would be appreciated.

    Thanks

    Bob

    #31 6 months ago

    Several people have asked about instructions for these sensors. Installation is really quite easy. The boards are marked for switch matrix rows and columns. Following is the complete instructions for NMP1’s and the multi boards (NMP3 – NMP4 – NMP5). Let me know if you have any questions.

    NMP-1 INSTRUCTIONS
    You may find it easier to remove the drop target assembly but it is possible to do this in the game.
    STEP 1: Remove the old contact boards from the assembly but do not remove the wires yet.
    STEP 2: Remove the horseshoe sliders from the targets.
    STEP 3: Install the new magnets – they fit perfectly in the target recess. I recommend superglue or epoxy.

    IMG_6583 (resized).JPG

    STEP 4: Install the sensor boards in the same location as the old boards.
    If your game has series connection (all targets down) you must install one red board.
    STEP 5: Transfer the wires from the old boards to the same location on the new boards. Do not transfer the old diodes. They are not necessary on the new boards (diodes are pre-installed). Simply transfer the wires leaving the old diodes behind.

    IMG_6973 (resized).JPG

    STEP 6: Check to be sure the wires are in the proper place and they are soldered correctly.
    WIRE CONNECTIONS:

    wire connection (resized).jpg

    NMP-3-4-5 INSTRUCTIONS
    STEP 1: Follow the instructions above for attaching the magnets.
    STEP 2: Install the new sensor board in the same location as the old boards.
    STEP 3: Using the switch matrix and the wiring diagram for your game, attach the wires to the proper connections on the new board. Do not transfer the old diodes. They are not necessary on the new boards (diodes are pre-installed). Simply transfer the wires leaving the old diodes behind.

    IMG_7015 (resized).JPG

    NOTE: The column connections are in pairs (large and small). They are the same. The small connections can be used to jumper column connections from target to another when needed.
    Example of wiring:

    Gorgar G-A-R (resized).jpg

    #32 6 months ago

    Will these fit the drop targets in Black Knight?

    #33 6 months ago

    The targets are physically the same so I don't see why not. The wiring will be different as BK tracks the downed targets directly, not by a series switch.

    You'd be removing the flat bladed spring on it. I guess the front spring is enough on all the games to reset these properly. I need to play around with a set of these at some point.

    #34 6 months ago
    Quoted from slochar:

    You'd be removing the flat bladed spring on it. I guess the front spring is enough on all the games to reset these properly. I need to play around with a set of these at some point.

    I dunno about that. I've already converted my BK targets to microswitches but thought I'd check that out. Took a spring blade off one target and it made it reset VERY unreliably, it falls back down about 50% of the time. It stays up okay pushing it up manually but not during powered resets. The main 'pull down' spring is still pulling it down but without the blade pushing it forwards it is extremely trigger-happy. Your video doesn't show that happening on Blackout so must be some other difference about BK's targets. (?) The bottoms were made deeper for actuating the leaf switches and the reset bar was changed but other than that I don't know.

    The blade spring pushes against the upper bracket vs. the horseshoe contacts which push against the circuit board. But with either one removed I don't see why they would behave differently.

    2 weeks later
    #35 6 months ago

    If anyone is interested in reviewing the instructions, wiring diagrams and switch matrixes for the NMP sensors please visit my friend’s website at https://troxelrepair.com

    He now carries the full line of NMP sensors. Plus other needed parts for pinball games.

    #36 6 months ago

    oldschoolbob thanks for letting me carry these in my store! Great product and couldn’t be happier with these installed in my Flash and Tri Zone.

    3 months later
    #37 75 days ago

    FYI…Running a sale on my site. You can take 15% off on NMPs if ordered this week.

    https://troxelrepair.com/save-15-on-all-orders/

    3 weeks later
    #38 48 days ago

    Just ordered for Blackout and Flash. can`t wait

    3 weeks later
    #39 27 days ago
    Quoted from troxel:

    FYI…Running a sale on my site. You can take 15% off on NMPs if ordered this week.

    Got the five and three in one boards installed in Flash last night and they work great.
    Gorgar will be next.
    Thanks..

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