(Topic ID: 231618)

Replacement Capacitors for 6803 MPU/SDB

By jlbintn

5 years ago


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There are 71 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 4 years ago
Quoted from jlbintn:

Replaced SW1. Still does nothing when pressing it. Not sure if it's supposed to do anything

It should work. Verify continuity from the switch to ground and to CPU pin 4. If everything makes it where it is supposed to go, here is a possible clue:

"My Stern Sea Witch with a M-200 MPU has a problem where it will not boot on occassion. Also the bookkeeping and high score reset button has no effect. There is no MPU board corrosion, and the reset section of the MPU has been totally replaced."
This person solved their problem by replacing the U9 6800 CPU chip. Apparently the NMI (non-maskable interupt) circuit inside the CPU chip was damaged, maybe by static from a poorly grounded coin door. This CPU problem did not show itself immediately, and let the MPU board function for the most part. The non-functioning reset switch was the give-away here, since this switch connects to the NMI circuit on the CPU chip."

It could be a stretch here, as far as a bad CPU goes, I know. If it were me, I'd be concerned of what else might be problematic if the CPU IC itself has a defect. You can also directly ground the NMI reset pin 4 on the CPU to simulate the switch circuit.

#52 4 years ago

Thank you very much for sticking with this. I can not express how much I appreciate that. This issue is driving me crazy.

Not just SW1, but you know the rest of that story.

As an aside, and somewhat unrelated, I have an occasional issue with my Fireball II not wanting to boot up on first attempt. A quick toggle of the ON/OFF switch always brings it up the second time.

That's a known issue, but it's not a priority at the moment. First things first

#53 4 years ago

Ok, have to ask, pardon me if it seems a stupid question, but what does direct to ground mean? I used a DMM with the leads on Pin 4 and TP2, but it did not simulate the reset. Continuity is good, also read +5vdc at pin 4.

I also purchased a second 6803 about a month ago, so I had two to work with. No difference with either installed on the MPU. Also, an NVRAM would not have any effect here, would it?

I can't see why it would.

edit to add

Is there anybody around here that works on 6803's? I want to continue on my own, but I may be nearing it's above my pay grade territory.

#54 4 years ago

Direct to ground means using a suitable jumper wire to temporarily short the NMI reset pin to of the CUP to ground. You have to be careful to make sure you don't short to adjacent pins. I use an alligator clip lead with one end attached to ground and the other alligator clipped to a trimmed lead from a typical 1/4 watt resistor. Touch that to the NMI pin for about a second.

#55 4 years ago

Ok thanks, that is what I suspected, but I wanted to make sure before proceeding, for the very reason you provided.

#56 4 years ago

I've called this one. Sent the 6803 MPU to Eldorado Games. That SW1 issue needs to be diagnosed on a scope. I've been at this for almost a year, and I have reached the end of my ability for the time being.

One last question for this topic for now.

On the power supply board, the 230 in sometimes reads as high as 244vdc. It's unregulated, so that shouldn't be an issue, correct?

#57 4 years ago
Quoted from jlbintn:

I've called this one. Sent the 6803 MPU to Eldorado Games. That SW1 issue needs to be diagnosed on a scope. I've been at this for almost a year, and I have reached the end of my ability for the time being.
One last question for this topic for now.
On the power supply board, the 230 in sometimes reads as high as 244vdc. It's unregulated, so that shouldn't be an issue, correct?

The unregulated input high voltage in can be as high as 244vdc, that's not a problem. The regulated high voltage out is more important and should be between 170-190VDC (TP2)

#58 4 years ago

Not sure if you fixed the display issue, FWIW I have had this issue of the strobing displays and it was the 160uf 350v cap on the power pcb. Replaced it with >> ebay.com link: HIGH TEMP 105 DEG 160UF 400 VOLT AXIAL REPLACEMENT 350 VOLT AXIAL CAP

#59 4 years ago

All other voltages are good. I did not think that it was an issue. I've got the displays turned down to 170vdc. I am very interested in what a full diagnostic on that board turns up.

And Brtlkat, yes my strobing is gone. Fixed that last year with new caps, and a rebuild of the high voltage section of the power board

#60 4 years ago

Display oower is pretty much a go/no go test. If you've got 170vdc at the displays then you still need all the data to make them work properly

2 months later
#61 4 years ago

Update:

Sent my 6803 MPU board to Eldorado Games. Talked to John yesterday, and was told that there is nothing wrong with the board. He also told me that SW1 on that board doesn't do anything. The board checked out good on the test bench, so it appears that my XPin displays just do not work with this particular version of the 6803 MPU.

So now, I'm "stuck" trying to find some newer displays that this MPU will be able to talk to. He said something about different versions of the 6803, so if that's true - and atm I have no reason to disbelieve that after my 14 month trek with this game and those newer displays, I'm hoping that there are some versions out there like Pinscore or Pinball Solutions that may resolve the issue. I've looked for replacement high voltage 14 digit displays, but those seem to almost as rare as a dinosaur.

I wonder if there is a way to get them to work. I wonder if anybody would even be willing to put the effort forth.

Any opinions? Any suggestions? Does anybody have a D&D pin that is using XPin's? If so, what Revision of the displays are they? I have a pair of Revision A's.

1 week later
#62 4 years ago

Update and a shout out for Brett at XPin. For the better part of the last 15 months, we tried to work out the issue with these displays, to no avail. I highly recommend XPin for display needs, as Brett is a good guy and stands by his word and his product. He went the extra mile for, and with me, to attempt to resolve this issue.

3 years later
#63 10 months ago

So this was never resolved? Damn…. Having the display issue with a brand new weebly mpu and new xpin displays. The machine had neither so i have no reference points.

#64 10 months ago

I am back looking into this again with my latest revision of the XP-BLY6803. An orange set in my Motordome, and definitely not sure as to the problem that OP is seeing...yet. OP is using a Weebly MPU where my Motordome is an original. I have never been one to point fingers and I am not going to now. Having been doing pinball boards for 13 yrs now and I am constantly surprised.

Lately it seems as more of us are having to do the re-engineering, we are often coming up to some incompatibility issues with each others aftermarket boards. I am wondering if this might be the case. I have reached out to Weebly asking for some insight as to the schematic and components. It may be something as simple as LS vs HC vs HCT vs LCV logic families, wrong size pull-up/down resistors, or signal series resistors. Once I get the information, I can dive into this more. This kind of forensic engineering is what keeps me going here and supporting this hobby. Who knows what has happened in the last 40 yrs to these games and what has been done to keep them running.

#65 10 months ago
Quoted from XPinPinball:

I am back looking into this again with my latest revision of the XP-BLY6803. An orange set in my Motordome, and definitely not sure as to the problem that OP is seeing...yet. OP is using a Weebly MPU where my Motordome is an original. I have never been one to point fingers and I am not going to now. Having been doing pinball boards for 13 yrs now and I am constantly surprised.
Lately it seems as more of us are having to do the re-engineering, we are often coming up to some incompatibility issues with each others aftermarket boards. I am wondering if this might be the case. I have reached out to Weebly asking for some insight as to the schematic and components. It may be something as simple as LS vs HC vs HCT vs LCV logic families, wrong size pull-up/down resistors, or signal series resistors. Once I get the information, I can dive into this more. This kind of forensic engineering is what keeps me going here and supporting this hobby. Who knows what has happened in the last 40 yrs to these games and what has been done to keep them running.

I have original boards in my Motordome, orange Xpins, and Andrew’s boards on hand to perform an “upgrade”. I’ll advise if my orange displays encounter any issues once I get Andrew’s boards installed. This never crossed my mind as a possibility, but we’ll see (should be this weekend).

#66 10 months ago
Quoted from XPinPinball:

I am back looking into this again with my latest revision of the XP-BLY6803. An orange set in my Motordome, and definitely not sure as to the problem that OP is seeing...yet. OP is using a Weebly MPU where my Motordome is an original. I have never been one to point fingers and I am not going to now. Having been doing pinball boards for 13 yrs now and I am constantly surprised.
Lately it seems as more of us are having to do the re-engineering, we are often coming up to some incompatibility issues with each others aftermarket boards. I am wondering if this might be the case. I have reached out to Weebly asking for some insight as to the schematic and components. It may be something as simple as LS vs HC vs HCT vs LCV logic families, wrong size pull-up/down resistors, or signal series resistors. Once I get the information, I can dive into this more. This kind of forensic engineering is what keeps me going here and supporting this hobby. Who knows what has happened in the last 40 yrs to these games and what has been done to keep them running.

I've had a problem with original displays and the display definitely need to use high speed chips on board.
Read my ordeal in this topic: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bally-6803-club-all-welcome/page/15#post-7454178

Peter

#67 10 months ago

There is zero difference in any display circuitry the stock 6803 board and the new replacement. Should be no compatibility issues with replacement displays.

#68 10 months ago
Quoted from barakandl:

There is zero difference in any display circuitry the stock 6803 board and the new replacement. Should be no compatibility issues with replacement displays.

Agreeing with this after speaking to you and doing a little bit more work with OP. Some more back and forth and it is heavily leaning towards the IDC connectors that are having issues. Doing pin 1-1 continuity testing between the displays are indicating that this is not the case on the pins that should be 1-1. Inspection shows we might have issues that occurred with push/pull on the connections. More to come!

#69 10 months ago

Solid state pinball repair guide:
Step 1 - Rebuild all the connectors.
Step 2 - Go back and rebuild all the connectors you skipped in step one.

#70 10 months ago
Quoted from yancy:

Solid state pinball repair guide:
Step 1 - Rebuild all the connectors.
Step 2 - Go back and rebuild all the connectors you skipped in step one.

Amen. It is a shitty job to do, but really needed on a lot of games.

I get a lot of "I replaced all the circuit boards in my bally game, but it still doesnt work!". Connectors connectors connectors....

or

"the display is counting only even digits, I think the ROM is corrupted!" connectors connectors connectors.. they are a bid headache.

2 weeks later
#71 9 months ago

Apologies for the delay. Installed @Barakandl’s PCBs while utilizing @XPinPinball’s orange LED displays in my 6803 Motordome. Zero issues. Displays working flawlessly. Camera didn’t capture full text, but a seamless system

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