(Topic ID: 128587)

Repair around MB mosh pit: JB-weld or Qwikwood?


By lowepg

4 years ago



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  • 35 posts
  • 14 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by lowepg
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#1 4 years ago

So, I noticed my 2-week old MB was developing a dent in the cliffy protecting the mosh-pit kickout hole.... In fact, it's now almost cracked!

Yeah, so, as everyone probably knows but me (well, until now) that's becuase the cliffy was covering some wear around the hole.

So, some research mentioned using some epoxy to fill the damage before replacing the protector.

1. JB Qwikweld is the only brand I'm seeing at my local homedepot. This ok or do I need to order some specialty item (Qwikweld wood, slumber epoxy, etc)?

2. I'm assuming I'll be throwing this cliffy in the trash. Is this the best option when I order a replacement? I've seen mention of a "mantis" protector as well?

#2 4 years ago

I am going with jb weld when I do mine, but using the slow set stuff. It was recommended to me by a restorer I know.

#3 4 years ago
Quoted from patrickvc:

I am going with jb weld when I do mine, but using the slow set stuff. It was recommended to me by a restorer I know.

Thanks for the feedback.... Glad I'm not the only one needing to make this repair

One thing concerned me about the suggestion *i* saw was to put the epoxy putty into place and then press the cliffy into it before it set/hardened:

If the intent is that the protector actually bonds to the putty- I can see that being potentially stronger- but also really difficult to ever remove???

#4 4 years ago

lowepg - Mantis protectors generally prevent damage to the wood (they line the inside walls), while Cliffy's both cover prior damage/repair and prevent damage as well (by covering the top lip and interior wall). Plan on covering your JB Weld patch with a shiny new Cliffy.

#5 4 years ago
Quoted from gcp:

lowepg - Mantis protectors generally prevent damage to the wood (they line the inside walls), while Cliffy's both cover prior damage/repair and prevent damage as well (by covering the top lip and interior wall). Plan on covering your JB Weld patch with a shiny new Cliffy.

Thank you- yes- that makes a lot of sense now!

Possibly-related question:

Could a slowly malforming cliffy cause some mosh eject issues? I'm also notice an occasional weak kick-out- in some cases resulting in a sdtm drain....

I'm wondering if the bent cliffy is perhaps hindering the eject? Or is that a seperate issue I need to troubleshoot

#6 4 years ago

I'm not sure how a bent Cliffy could result in weak kickouts... I'd start with inspecting the solenoid assembly for any mechanical issues, and replacing the coil sleeve.

#7 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Thank you- yes- that makes a lot of sense now!
Possibly-related question:
Could a slowly malforming cliffy cause some mosh eject issues? I'm also notice an occasional weak kick-out- in some cases resulting in a sdtm drain....
I'm wondering if the bent cliffy is perhaps hindering the eject? Or is that a seperate issue I need to troubleshoot

Ive definitely had damaged cliffy effect kickout

#8 4 years ago
Quoted from gcp:

I'm not sure how a bent Cliffy could result in weak kickouts... I'd start with inspecting the solenoid assembly for any mechanical issues, and replacing the coil sleeve.

Yea the welds of the scoop may be broken also

#9 4 years ago

You could try some bondo brand fiber glass filler. That stuff is touch as nails. JB weld and the like are good as well. I've had issues with the stuff bonding to other materials. Might be me though. Whatever you use remember that a good bond is all in the prep work.

#10 4 years ago
Quoted from maestro:

You could try some bondo brand fiber glass filler. That stuff is touch as nails. JB weld and the like are good as well. I've had issues with the stuff bonding to other materials. Might be me though. Whatever you use remember that a good bond is all in the prep work.

Thanks... straight-up Bondo or the wood filler bondo?

#11 4 years ago

I've been in a similar situation. When I got my Monster Bash, it had a new-ish Cliffy that looked good, but because it was installed over a little damage without any repair, it eventually bent and split. I ordered a new one, and tried to install it right, but I also didn't want to do anything that wasn't reversible, because the playfield is otherwise in pretty good shape.

So, my approach was to use QuikWood (ordered from Pinball Life) to fill in the gap, but to install it on the Cliffy rather than on the playfield. (My pictures should explain.) The way I did this was to use saran wrap to keep the playfield totally clean and unmolested, and to add Quikwood to the corner of the Cliffy, then squish it into place in the playfield, add/remove material, re-sqish, and repeat until I thought I had just the right amount of material filling the void.

This was totally my own technique, but it was definitely a success. The new Cliffy has held up really well, and I didn't do anything unreversible.

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#12 4 years ago

In This Old Pinball #4 Clay repairs that same hole with JB Weld if you need a fancy video of it.

#13 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

So, some research mentioned using some epoxy to fill the damage before replacing the protector.
1. JB Qwikweld is the only brand I'm seeing at my local homedepot. This ok or do I need to order some specialty item (Qwikweld wood, slumber epoxy, etc)?
2. I'm assuming I'll be throwing this cliffy in the trash. Is this the best option when I order a replacement? I've seen mention of a "mantis" protector as well?

Many years ago (2002) on RGP I posted about my repair done with JB weld. It's still holding today. I used the thicker mantis protector also.

Here is the thread:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/jb$20weld$20monster$20bash/rec.games.pinball/eEob0bFBQ/EQdgn03QxJgJ

Here is another thread where somebody else used my idea too:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/jb$20weld$20monster$20bash/rec.games.pinball/EwBMBIqcBSw/u3IGwPfOwWIJ

#14 4 years ago

I've always used quikwood on my repairs. Done quite a few now and have never had any issues. Proper prep is the key (just like any other project)

FWIW, even Cliffy will tell you that his protectors are not meant to last a lifetime, and you NEED to do repairs prior to install, otherwise they will just get hammered into the wear that you have.

#15 4 years ago
Quoted from DefaultGen:

In This Old Pinball #4 Clay repairs that same hole with JB Weld if you need a fancy video of it.

I watched that video before I did my fix, but I didn't want to risk making things worse, and I didn't want to do any touchups or clearcoating. I had previously used QuikWood to repair damage to a Road Show and a Creature before installing Cliffys.

I really like QuikWood. It's very easy to work with, although it smells horrible.

#16 4 years ago

Quikwood is great. Used it on my GNR axl hole prior to cliffy'ing. Stuff works great and, as mot said, smells horrid.

Easily smoothed out with a credit card too. Very moldable with your fingers. Just good stuff.

#17 4 years ago
Quoted from dsuperbee:

FWIW, even Cliffy will tell you that his protectors are not meant to last a lifetime, and you NEED to do repairs prior to install, otherwise they will just get hammered into the wear that you have.

I see that.... just to reiterate- I bought the machine with the cliffy installed- was not aware of "what lied beneath"

#18 4 years ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

Quikwood is great. Used it on my GNR axl hole prior to cliffy'ing. Stuff works great and, as mot said, smells horrid.
Easily smoothed out with a credit card too. Very moldable with your fingers. Just good stuff.

Thanks....

dumb question:

Is JB Weld "Qwikwood" essentially he same as the Kwikwood folks are referring to from pinball life?

They both look like putty-based filler

#19 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Thanks....
dumb question:
Is JB Weld "Qwikwood" essentially he same as the Kwikwood folks are referring to from pinball life?
They both look like putty-based filler

Not sure, but I'd believe very similar. I bought/used the stuff from pinball life that Cliffy recommended.

#20 4 years ago

Instructions said to use gloves, but I didn't. I'd find it cumbersome to use gloves while trying to mold this stuff.

#21 4 years ago

I used quickwood to repair the sanctum area on my Shadow and I can say that it was very easy to work with and I had never used it before. It had a decent amount of working time as well so I had plenty time to mold it into the right shape before it hardened. It was a hundred times easier than working with Bondo. I don't know how that compares with the JB weld product.

#22 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Thanks....
dumb question:
Is JB Weld "Qwikwood" essentially he same as the Kwikwood folks are referring to from pinball life?
They both look like putty-based filler

Probably exactly the same. I have always whatever I found at my local Hardware store that dried closest to a wood color.

#23 4 years ago
Quoted from mot:

This was totally my own technique, but it was definitely a success.

Interesting technique, thanks for sharing.

#24 4 years ago

How much "prep" do i need to do if I'm simply trying to level hings out beneath the cliffy protector?

Ill be honest, this is my first into "PF repair", my previous efforts have not gone much deeper than "clean, polish, wax, add a cliffy"

#25 4 years ago

Honestly, just mush up the putty in between your fingers, press it down into the gouge, and mold it. I use a credit card to level it and make it smooth. I also think applying the cliffy onto the spot when the putty isn't yet dried will help it form fit.

I wanna say Cliffy had a "how-to" on his website, but I could be wrong. Don't overthink it too much. It's not a hard process at all.

#26 4 years ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

Don't overthink it

I'm generally not great at following this advice, but here I would recommend it.

#27 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

How much "prep" do i need to do if I'm simply trying to level hings out beneath the cliffy protector?
Ill be honest, this is my first into "PF repair", my previous efforts have not gone much deeper than "clean, polish, wax, add a cliffy"

Here is what I do:

If the wood is REALLY bad and soft, I will drip some water-thin superglue into the wear area to help give the wood some strength.

Once that is done, I will sand the area with 800 grit paper, then wipe clean with naptha, making sure to get all the sawdust, grit, wax, dirt, etc...out of the area.

Then it is time to use the filler of your choice. I prefer quikwood. I will roll some up to activate, then push into the wear area. I have a small scrap plastic dowel I will use to help 'roll' the material into place, then a fresh razor to help make everything nice and square, and bevel if the hole calls for it.

Wait 24 hours, then sand smooth with 800, 1000, 1500, then 2000. You can then either put your protector on, or paint to match.

#28 4 years ago

The only issue I see in sanding before adding the cliffy, is that you might not get as good a level surface before laying the cliffy. I think it's best to lay the cliffy into the putty before it dries. Let the CLiffy itself flatten and mold the surface. Sort of like a custom fit.

#29 4 years ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

The only issue I see in sanding before adding the cliffy, is that you might not get as good a level surface before laying the cliffy. I think it's best to lay the cliffy into the putty before it dries. Let the CLiffy itself flatten and mold the surface. Sort of like a custom fit.

I have never had any issues. The putty gives you about 10 mins of solid working time, and with some small sanding blocks getting things level isn't a problem. I went to tap plastics and scoured their scrap bin, got a bunch of different sizes of solid square plastics for about 5 bucks that have come in very handy. Found solid circle lengths too for doing the inside rounded corners.

#30 4 years ago

great suggestion hardening soft wood with crazyglue first dsuperbee, I've fixed many broken plastic things with crazyglue and light (2-3 oz) fiberglass cloth, locks up to be rock solid in a minute or so.
I know for sure it'll do the same penetrating into wood pores or ply layers, and semi crystallize on the surface for something else (JB, bondo-glass etc) to bond to it even harder.

#31 4 years ago

On my STTNG Neutral Zone, I used a Mantis Protector and a Cliffy protector. Cliffy hides the wear/damage, Mantis protects the Cliffy. Honestly though, I only finished up the machine a month ago, so not sure how well it will do long term.

#32 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Thanks... straight-up Bondo or the wood filler bondo?

I didn't know they made wood filler bondo. Might be ok. I was talking about fiberglass resin. http://bondo.com/products/fiberglass/bondo-glass-fiberglass-reinforced-filler-272.html
This stuff is touch and easy to form. Then sand once hardened to finish getting the shape you want.

I've not used quickwood but that sounds like a good option as well. Biggest reason I may use fiberglass is because I do a little body work and I have it around.

#33 4 years ago

Yikes... replacement cliffy arrived, so just pulled off the old one to survey the damage....
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*gulp*

its actually hard to tell how much wood is gone, but its certainly a good chunk! Oddly, the cliffy hid all this (JUST BARELY) so I was ignorant to the amount of damage beneath.

I bought some LB weld epoxy, but this is too big an area for the liquid.... I definitely will need to find the putty-type (HD and Lowes dont stock it anymore)

#34 4 years ago

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=1561

Tho better order soon. Looks like Terry's going on vacation.

#35 4 years ago

Got the Qwikwood (from AceHardware- yay!)
sidenote: I go to homedepot aLOT (mostly for convenience), but it was soooo nice to walk into Ace hardware for a change!

There's no WAY I could have used the straight JBweld epoxy on this repair- it was just too big. I tried to mix a little of that just to test it- and it was WAY too runny for this application (and, jesus- does it STINK!).

So the Qwikwood putty worked great-

I initially TRIED to place the cliffy in while it was still setting, but the problem was- the area i built-up with qwikwood was so big, trying to squeeze the cliffy in was "digging in" to the putty.

So, I formed it as best I could, and let it harden almost completely before installing the cliffy.

Thanks again for all the recommendations!

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