I think I'd like repaints more if it was harder to tell. I mean if you look at it and wonder if that is a perfect original or a repaint then mission accomplished. A lot of guys get pretty close. The trouble is even a perfect original is likely to have a little patina. When they are a day-glo white with heavy splatter it's a dead giveaway that it's a repaint. Part of me realizes that splatter probably was heavier originally. I'm guessing it gets knocked down and thinned out after 50 years of cleaning but I like the subtlety of the less obvious.

A clean original is my ideal. That's generally optimistic and I can live with some battle scars. There comes a point for some games where they look so ragged a repaint is definitely an improvement and adds value. And I think most would agree. It's in that middle ground where it gets tricky and opinions really vary on the proper treatment.

Just sent boilerman a pm asking for tips on the webbing. I was under the impression you thin out black paint by 50% dip a brush and flick at the cab. I guess there is much more to it. Glad I asked.

Flicking a brush seems a bit random of a method for a commercial operation like Gottlieb - they clearly used a machine of some sort to get consistent results. Surely that method hasn't been lost to time.

I like an original paint job, but will usually accept a decent repaint over one of those shag carpet jobs.

Would this be decent enough. This is the reason I dislike repaints.

image_(resized).jpg

I'd shag that one.

Hi
a "real" collector will not pay much for a repainted machine - also not much for a touched-up pin.
Well, maybe he does - because he wants the pin for playing / having memories of "good times long gone" ...
Funny ? WE talk about touch-ups and repaints - guitarists buy Tele's and Strats - new from the factory --- roadworn - beaten-up - heavy signs of wear ...
Greetings Rolf

That is the method Clay came up with if you don't have air. I have air but I haven't tried the method yet. It wasn't how Gottlieb did it. They did it in the painting process with a gun, I'm sure.

But that is the thing about webbing. It's not consistent. Sometimes there's more than other times, sometimes it's thicker than other times. It's like the graphics, it was done by hand by humans so no two are exactly alike. The graphics were sprayed with metal stencils, and they didn't take time to be particular, which is why you had the overspray and the graphics being a bit different at times.

In most cases, I like seeing original cabinets left original. Some touch up is ok if it is reasonably well done. I remember a collector a few years ago who found a sample game "Kings & Queens" with a very nice original cabinet. Being a perfectionist though, he had the cabinet repainted. Although it was done by one of the very best restoration guys on the planet, and it looked great when it was done, to me the game's value was diminished greatly. The same for a mint "Foto Finish" that was shopped by a well-known person in the hobby. For some reason, he replaced many of the original coils. The originals were perfectly good, but they were needlessly replaced with new ones with the plastic bases. To me, that ruined the value of the game. It should have been left all original. That's just me though. Of course repainting a trashed cabinet is preferable to leaving it original. I just don't like seeing a reasonably good cabinet getting a full repaint even if it is done well.

I agree. Many collectable items are much more valuable if left original. Any restoration or even cleaning (such as coins)
will greatly reduce the value.
Pins are a little different in that regard because most games aren't truly "collectable".

At times I have repainted a cabinet because there was no other choice due to the cab condition or a previous respray calamity. But I regard a respray, no matter how professionally done, as essentially one big touch up. There just seems a loss of character to a resprayed 50/60 year old machine-IMO.

Hi pinsiders
"Shangri La" was my first love (end of 1960ies): http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=2110 , http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2110&picno=18169

Starting the hobby around 2007 - after years of waiting I could buy one in +/- 2011 - it came repainted - all brown / maroon --- UGLY. A friend of mine LIKES to do repair-jobs (fixing so we can play again) and also from time to time: Doing a repaint. We agreed on "Repaint Yes" but a piece of art on its own.
Another person I know "since about 2014" owns an original Shangri La. I do say: Mine is NOT original - but I prefer the "color green" and "color red" on MY Shangri La. Here two pictures (lousy pictures) taken with an cellular / mobile phone.

If a repaint is necessary -> make a clearly visible repaint (?). Greetings Rolf

Handy-Ericsson_007b_(resized).jpg

Handy-Ericsson_008b_(resized).jpg

Vintage cars provide a useful template for thinking about this subject:

http://www.hemmings.com/magazine/mus/2011/01/Original-vs--Restored/3694861.html

The author describes four categories of originality/restoration:

1) "Survivor", kept as original as possible, no refinishing or touchups allowed. Only minimal functional repairs.
2) Surface updates allowed to make it visually attractive, but no more.
3) "Restomod" - originality is unimportant. Replace or modify anything with anything. Original item was just a starting point.
4) Ground-up restoration: take it all apart, polish everything so it gleams, NOS replacements only. Item in better condition than when new.

I'd love to do #4, but have to mostly settle for #3.

Another article explains how an original car may be worth 35% more than a restoration:

http://mycarquest.com/2014/01/now-that-original-is-more-valuable-than-a-perfect-restoration-there-are-a-few-questions-that-come-to-mind.html

Which interestingly has the author asking this question: "Will there be an increase in fake originality and fake patina on classic cars for sale?"

I welcome any increase in value on my pins, but I don't want to be hemmed in by that consideration alone.

Agree with number 1.

After that it is compromising as sometimes there just isn't anything else available.

Although you just can't beat a lovely original survivor. But very rare to find 99% original. Always prefer original glass but sometimes not possible but luckily the repro glasses are very very good.

It's just me I guess, but somehow repainted Williams games don't bother me as much as repainted Gottliebs!

Try a rag and some xylene. Sometimes rattle can comes off easily and the underneath isn't bad.

You have to be able to get the game really cheap if you're going to do a complete restoration on games that are not keepers, unless you just want to do it because you like doing it and you accept that you might lose money as part of just having a good time and doing what you want to do.

A long time ago I decided that this was a hobby for me. Once I accepted that, I no longer limited myself to having to keep the value of a machine to what the market would return on it. How far I will go depends on how much I like the game. I always get them up and running first and if I like the way it plays I go all out making it nice. If I cannot stand the game play then I will dress it up and move it out.

I prefer to keep the original paint and air brush in touchups. If you spend some time on mixing the paint and air brush it so as to fade into the "mixed" color it can be very difficult to detect. Air brush on some semi gloss Varethane and your good to go.

If the cabinet looks like crap, has a hideous repaint on it, or it needs extensive wood repairs I think the repaint is a better way to go.

I take each game differently. I think it is fun to figure out how to make up the different paint on different machines. For the speckles on "Big Brave" I drilled out the spray hole a bit on a rattle can and the spray came out in droplets rather than atomizing.
For the 1950's turquoise multi color speckle paint I bought a drywall ceiling popcorn sprayer from Harbor Freight . I used the smallest nozzle it came with and loaded it with straight latex wall paint for each of the 3 colors. Came out sweet.

I am always interested in how other people fix up their games . I do not think there is a right or wrong. It is a matter of personal preference.
Cliff

Appearance is important. If it bothers you, then have the cabinet repainted. If it doesn't, leave it alone.

Hi
ZNET shows the Backbox in post-1 and the cabinet in post-34. His last post was post-46.
I would repair the cabinet - paint the repaired places in a "nice, good looking way" - put the pin in between two other pins and play - I would do whatever I want to do - later, maybe - doing it for me. I would not do stuff considering "better price when selling". Greetings Rolf

Has anyone used this stuff to repair backglasses?

Nice work, ZNET!!!

You mentioned that you...

...and pardon me if I missed this, but did you previously show where those repairs and touch-ups were? Would love to see a before and after and read more about your process if you're able.

Also, I really like that you...

That looks really slick and works with the gameplay and layout.

However, I was a little curious about why these couple changes were made:

I guess I didn't really understand the integration of those final couple of changes, but I'm interested to hear your thoughts.

Again, fantastic work!

-Ryan

Nice job, ZNET!

I always enjoy viewing the creativity with regards to improving appearance! You should check out a post titled, "Personal Touch to Your EM's" in this forum. That thread is probably 150 entries long, with many appearance enhancing additions mentioned there.

I added color-coordinated posts as you have with some of my keepers as well, (though I have no pics). Having all white posts to me, seems to take away from the game's appearance somewhat.

On my Dimension, I added colored bulb sleeves to the top kick-outs, but left the hole inserts all white, (which probably helped with their glow). I was originally unhappy with the upper playfield darkness, so I added to the general illumination lighting by adding a 63 bulb to the upper portion of the mid-playfield center kicker plastic, (socket secured under a playfield post, wiring up through existing leaf switch holes). The 63 bulb was horizontal and positioned towards the center, it lit up beautifully. You may not need extra lighting on 2001, as the center plastic is different and looks like it will illuminate better. Funny how the plastic sets on this and Dimension were altogether different.

I also threw in red, blue, green, yellow plastic bulb sleeves, (like the ones above the top arch), on each of the existing bulbs under the center plastic, just to add color. I adjusted the pop bumpers to be lit at all times and used blue "Ink Spot" caps for them. I know they change scoring value when all 10 drops on each side are completed, but they light with the Wow's, and with Wow's lit, who's shooting for them?

Try adding 47's under the plastics behind the drop targets and slings. IMO, They have a fuller, more consistent effect. Those look like LED's in your pics with that directional, "Blotchy" appearance.

Nice touch-up and cosmetic surgery on the 2001 cabinet, ZNET. Game looks absolutely beautiful.

Looks like you and I feel about the same regarding this aspect of the hobby. I prefer to keep these games as original as I can but am not adverse to some high quality touch-ups on cabinets and playfields. Some of my games have had this done here and there as I felt was needed. I don't do this work myself, as I just don't have the talent. I have a guy that does the touch-ups on my games and his work is amazing. I don't mind touch-ups but just don't want it to 'look' like touch-ups. If you've ever seen poorly done work, I'm sure you know what I mean. I would rather have no touch-ups at all... than poorly done touch-up.

Now, for the guys out there who think that ANY touch-ups, are "molesting" an original, this is not lost to me. I would put you in a class above me and you probably have the right idea. My problem is, I'm a perfectionist (or at least a recovering perfectionist) and 'any' wear, is too much wear for me. Mr. Picky... but that's okay, my games are like Ivory soap: 99 and 44/100% pure. And in most cases, absolutely 100% pure, as can reasonably be done.

Nice EM Joker Poker

74ccdb72df30b74ed40e430feb551dd669a7b90b_(resized).jpg

I really like this machine ZNet and what you have done with it. I like LED because it is cooler temp-wise even when it doesn't look like it did back in the day.On a Space-Themed machine it really fits.I do like coin-door lights/decals,the front of yours is dark.The more lights,the better.
The touch-ups are excellent,I am not sure I could match the quality of your work.Keep it up,and thanks...

I searched the site for this thread, but couldn't find it. Any chance of posting a direct link? Thanks for your time, Boatcat.

Here you go:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/personal-touch-to-your-em-games

You rock. Not sure why I couldn't produce that in a search. Thank you, Boatcat!!!