Holey crap, I completely combined two different ways I do it into one. I need (well I think we all) need a brain refresh....

Way 1 - Smooth travels the whole way. I.E. no grass, gravel or dirt. I put the game on my pinball skates and wheel it to my car. Lift up the rear, put my saw horse under the back, take back legs off, then slide in the front (super easy as I leave the skates on the front). Then remove the front legs and slide it the rest of the way in. Take out in reverse. This is my preferred method.

Way 2 - When I don't have a smooth path. The more traditional way with folding it up and and moving with the appliance dolly. If you have the escalara with the lift attachment you can keep the legs on for moving. Really, that attachment makes it easy to install and remove the legs as well as to get it into the back of a truck or SUV with minimal effort.

Sorry for the confusion..

I talked with a operator friend of mine a few months ago about this. He said depending on the machine and how it earns. Typically games make $150 - $250 per month so if I wanted a game it would be what it has earned in the past and providing it's not already out on route. That seemed expensive to me as I don't want to spend/have $50/week to play pinball.

Couldn't imagine spending a grand a month for a couple pins

We all here should know what these pins cost to buy used or nib, amount of maintenance they need, and the challenges of moving them especially when stairs are involved. In short, they are expensive and a pain to deal with. Renting sounds tempting on newer games. You typically lose more than $500 buying nib and selling in a few months anyways.

That's silver spinner on pinside.

I only "rent" what's in my collection. This isnt a business for me.

I get the traditional costs for moving, set up, maintenance. I also understand that these machines are making NOTHING at the moment. What hasn't been mentioned is that in the past if you owned/rented a game MANY people would get the chance to flip it; not just family.

IMHO, I would think $150/mo would be a fair amount (rented to a Pinsider that probably won't mess your game up).

Of course, I would assume 2 month minimum, and travel within say 50 miles.

Either way, this is a good opportunity to break into the home vending market if your traditional locations are closed indefinitely.

A local guy here has targeted the business market. He has 6 games at companies for $250/month with a 6 month pre-pay. He said he just has to go around every 2 weeks to keep up on the maintenance. Sounded pretty good to me...

Renting a game for 150$ a month and you're saying MANY people beside family can flip it.
If the game gets for example 500 plays, this means 350 games are not being paid if you normally have it set at 1$ game/play.
So the game will wear out faster for earning less money....
And 500 plays when being locked up for Corona is only around 16 games a day which is not a lot of play though.

I'm an operator but at this rate I would rather have my game earning nothing instead of peanuts since it's not worth the trouble to move, wear out, potential damage to the game etc.

Not to be negative but as a business it's difficult to turn a profit when renting pinball games.
We've stopped renting less than 3 games at a time on the side of our operator business since it was not worth the time.

Shit!! I’m in the wrong business

Yes. But the math is different for everyone and it depends how much you need the money. There is a cost/benefit analysis for every bit of paid work, for every person. Their current financial situation and employment status matters, but you can't just universally state that anything is better than nothing. There are plenty of people who lost their jobs recently, but will all of them shovel horse poop for minimum wage? Of course not.

The other math involved is that if someone is thinking about renting out, say, a Metallica for $150 a month (plus free moving, installation, repair, and upkeep)...they could also sell the machine for $4k and that would earn more money than 26 months of renting out that machine.

This is up to four hours of driving, 3-4 hours of physically taxing setup and take down, and up to 3 hours of extra work each time something goes wrong with the game (which hopefully it won't!). If $300 sounds like a good price for that amount of work - you should absolutely offer this service to people! You'll have plenty of takers.

(I think you'll earn between $20-$50 an hour for your time on a 2 month minimum rental, before expenses, and each rental represents a $4,000 pinball machine).

For people who have games sitting idle on location right now, there is another factor: timing. Bars are closed here for at least 30 days. If half of my machines have been rented out and the bars re-open, then what? Rent a box truck and drive all over the state coordinating game pickups and collecting $150 from each person?

The maximum price at which most people would pay to rent a game for their home and minimum price at which most people would be willing to do what it takes to operate a game in a residential house are just too far apart to make this a common service. I wish it were different! But unfortunately, it is what it is.

To the people who think that $250-$500 a month is way too high, I ask you this: how much would you charge to breakdown, move (across town), and setup a game in a new location (with steps) where you won't have any moving assistance from the customer...and then pick it up one month later? Let's pretend it's not even your game and you won't have to do any maintenance or communicating during that month.

I was implying that NOT as many people would be playing it, but admittedly, I phrased my original post poorly. My thoughts were as you mentioned. Previously there would have been 500 games a month, now, likely 250. Or whatever numbers apply.

Not to mention if you pull the game out of the location. That is an empty spot. While they are sitting there with nothing to do and thinking. What if they think that spot is better used for something else, and they don't want the game back ?

Or if you have a contract with the location, you may not be able to remove it.

LTG : )

I'm not in the vendor business, and I'm not attempting to tell anyone how to do their job. I'm merely stating what I think would be fair as a homebound, no visitors rental plan.

Again, given the current state of affairs, if someone were possibly going to be in a tight situation, I'd think they'd suck it up. If they're not, then I absolutely get it, not worth your time.

I did try to stipulate close range (50 miles) and a "trusted" renter. Not trying to be argumentative.

All good.

Another good point. Pros and Cons to all sides.

Quarterworld in Portland, Oregon is doing rentals per month. $50 additional charge for stairs. https://www.facebook.com/334226516773664/posts/1257907931072180/?d=n
DE73BFF8-C1D7-42FD-85D0-EBFC2C89D942.jpeg

Compared to a lot I've seen that's very reasonable. Wish it was just a wee bit closer.

These rental games will get played a shit ton! I mean, people with nothing to do ALL DAY, everyday, for a full month or two. Better be ready to shop the game when it returns, so factor in that as well. Not to mention repairs.
I’ve been asked by several people already, and haven’t even bothered to reply, just not worth it to the owner of the games.
Oh, and we haven’t even gotten to the fact the transport and repair are opening the possibility to spread the virus and is exactly the type of thing we are of supposed to NOT be doing.

I know, it's interesting to think about this stuff and debate it a little.

I really do wish I could do this more easily and affordably.

(...deletes text to DNO asking if he'd be willing to rent me a game...)

Ha! I’m not offended, and have given it thought. But I would sell a game first to get through this, hope it doesn’t come to that.

I honestly don't think this would happen. I think the first week or 2 might be like wooo hooo something new! But after that you'd still be collecting for minimal plays. Especially in a home environment. I have 6 games downstairs and they BARELY get played. Just sayin....

Yeah, if I rented a game I’d probably the shit out of it the first day or two and then like the rest of my games, may not play them for weeks. I think I’d rather trade a game with someone for a certain amount of time and then get mine back.

Come to think of it, it would be like having the worst part but to the tenth degree since you would be moving them a lot more. Because like several have mentioned, most get bored of said game in like a week. Most of my games I can leave for 6 months to 2 years or more before rotating.

Always wondered what if jimbo smith decided to move to timbuktu and give your game to George gomez. Not real sure what you would do to mitigate those risks.

Then I guess I'd have to have a Stern talk with George Gomez!

No, it's not. No money is much better than working for peanuts to rent out your pins to strangers, haul them all over the place, wear and tear, possible service calls, etc.

GEX prices seemed outrageous. Abig local op here has way awesome pricing imo and masssssive list of games. Here is their post:

Here is an updated list as of this morning. As more game get ready we will add them to the list.
To lock in a game for rental we will need your phone number and address.
If you or someone in your household is feeling under the weather or ill, we will not be renting to you at this time.
All Rentals are on a month to month with a 1 month minimum.
Upon the reopening of Bars and Restaurants, all games that were rented out of a location will need to be returned and your month minimum will be prorated and refunded.
We will not be placing games in Basements that involve stairs, or on the second story of a house.
All games listed are on a first come first serve basis.
All games will be set on Free Play
If you rent you Home/Apartment we will require you Renters insurance number
There is a $40 Delivery and Setup to locations outside of the Portland metro area
There is a $50 additional charge for anything that involves us physically having to a game to get it into placement, per game, per flight of stairs
This is our current list and as games are rented or other games become available we will update.
-Cheers
PinBall
Zombie League All-Stars- $300
Stand Up Arcade
Pac Man Battle Royale- $300
Nickelodeons Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles- $300
Off Road 3 player- $250
NES Super System- $250
Tetris- $250
XMEN 4 Player- $250
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles - $250
Terminator Salvation- $250
Silent Scope- $200
WAR: Final Assault- $200
Ninja Baseball Batman- $200
Road Blasters- $200
Defender- $200
Cruzin’ USA- $200
Battle Toads- $200
Carnevil- $200
Dig-Dug- $200
Dragons Lair II- $200
House of the Dead 2- $200
Race Drivin’- $200
Rampage World Tour- $200
SunSet Riders- $200
Joust- $200
MegaMan Power Battle- $175
Golden Axe- $175
Marvel vs. Capcom- $175
Wrestlefest- $175
PGA World Tour- $150
Altered Beast- $150
Arkanoid- $150
Final Fight- $150
Ghost & Goblins- $150
Extreme Hunting- $100
Capcom Bowling- $100
Sit-Down Arcades- We will not rent sit down drivers to locations with stairs
Maximum Tunes- $250
Road Burners- $200
San Fransisco Rush Extreme- $175
San Francisco Rush 2049- $175
Dirt Dash- $175
Hydro Thunder- $175
Buck Rogers- $175

90145940_10158254408321926_4051858824057847808_n (resized).jpg

Exactly, you guys have and have had games at home, and multiples.
I’m talking renting to someone that is having 1 game in their house, for the first time ever. Big difference. They will play the F out of it

Ive been asked about rentals and dont think its a good idea during a pandemic. If a coil stop or wire comes off and you are not able to service in a timely manner clients will expect a discount or not pay at all. Some people may have desperate times and could sell the game to pay bills. Good luck in calling the police for this during these times were in as they have bigger fish to fry. If you drop off a game and get Covid/fever a few days later are you suppose to call your clients and let them know? Vice versa? What about arranging pick up if a family member is sick for 14+ days. Do they get charged for that time if youre unable to pick up?Vice versa? The amount of plays could be through the roof. I did a call on a dormant f14 set to 5 balls a game and it had 2K plays in 3 weeks.

The next risk is injury to the movers. Moving games from one bar to another no stairs is fairly easy. Going in private homes , stairs, turns etc can be risky. Not the best time to visit the ER.

I applaud the people for doing this as its a nice gesture to promote the hobby and help people. For me personally, Its not worth the risk.

And you could get infected. Or get exposed and pass it on. To location or your home.

If someone gets infected and it's traced back to you or your game.

LTG

It sounds like a good idea until you start looking at all of the risk involved:

1) Damage to the machine during transport.
2) Damage to the client or their location during transport/set up.
3) Damage to the machine while it is at the location.
4) Machine breakdowns that cost you time/money.
5) Complete loss (theft, fire, water, etc.) of the machine.

The way I see it, there is just as much if not more risk than operating a machine at a commercial location, not to mention more potential headaches.

Sure it could be profitable with a bit of luck and a good system, but it a few bad deals could put you at a loss very quickly. Holding a credit card on file and trying to work out insurance details isn't enough to prevent those major losses, IMO. Never mind the infectious issues right now.

But hey, I suppose if the pinball market tanks like I keep reading about here and I can't stand looking at my games anymore, maybe I'll give it another thought.

I had been looking for a place to rent out pinball machines in Orange County, and found [email protected] in San Diego. Prices were in line with Quarterworld, for newer Stern titles. Worked out great so far! I'm at home with nothing to do, and play some games at night after shorties go to bed.

I’m with you on this. Transportation, wear and tear, liability, infection risk. I mean I applaud Quarterworld and they clearly have done their own calculations to indicate to them it’s a financially sound idea. But honestly at those prices, with those other intangibles, I couldn’t make it possibly work.

Beside the virus,, Would these 1-5 not all be the same as if you are setting it up in a bar/location to vend with no guarantee of any income in the machine?

Good question.

Read up on past posts here on Pinside and Rec Games Pinball. About people loaning games to friends or storing games at friends houses.

What happens to those games is way scarier than what happens on location. One of my favorites was a guy moving his friends Twilight Zone into another room and he didn't know the head folded down. So he cut all the wires from the cabinet into the head.

Even if you don't leave keys to the game. Home owners will get into them somehow.

If you do rent games. I'd sure as heck check the posting history of the person, to get an idea of what you are getting into.

LTG : )

This is when a contract is put in place to protect the item/machine.

I would be interested in renting a game for sure, but I honestly don't know how it's worth it to operator unless they know and trust the people involved. It seems like one of those things that if you charge enough to make it worth the operator's while that it's too expensive for the renter. It's cool that it's working some places though.

I believe the types of risk are similar but to a greater extent when renting to a home user. A commercial location has more to lose if they try to screw you. Plus you are more likely to have more machines at a commercial location and for a longer period of time.

I could easily picture a situation where you rent to a home user and one week later you get a call saying "Hey, the ball keeps getting stuck on this pinball machine, my wife was right I never should have done this, please come pick it up. Sorry, I'll give you $100 but not the originally agreed upon amount." Then after you remove the machine, you get a call later saying "Hey, my wife says your dolly left marks on the hardwood floors. We're going to need you to pay for that."

Perhaps I'm biased after years of selling and personally delivering games to homes (I typically no longer offer the latter), but I personally just don't see enough reasonable profit for the potential headaches.

I was about to rent a pin from a local supplier, but in their rental contract, it states ->

"The client agrees to pay any other potential fees for parts and labor arising from any damage to the
machine during this contract up to the maximum cost of a brand new machine of the same or comparable
title + any shipping costs, including but not limited to anything that may arise from regular play."

I asked him about it, because he was going to leave the pin locked at the house, and was willing to drive to get stuck balls. Fine. And I totally understand me being responsible for any damage to a pin caused by myself. Such as ...broken glass, bent legs, cabinet scratches, whatever.

But he confirmed that yes....if something internal breaks, like...a motherboard, or monitor, ...anything...I would be responsible for paying for fixing the pin.

Does that sound reasonable to anybody else? Why would I be responsible for something that I would have no direct access to?

Like...if I rent a car, I'm absolutely responsible for damages caused by my negligence...like a car accident. But if the A/C compressor goes out, or the radiator goes out...or whatever...the rental car company is responsible for that. It should be the same with renting a pin.

So unfortunately...I haven't rented the pin that I wanted from him.

It doesn't matter how it sounds. That is his terms.

You know up front. No surprises.

LTG : )

Saw a picture of a rented game set up in a house today, right next to a large sunny window!

i know someone that has a route in bars and restaurants and theyre all closed i was like dude u shud rent ur machines to people by the month.. he has stuff from 150 to 400 a month. for 250 u can gets fishtails 24 rhe shadow a bunch i got fish tales for pops cant really fish sonnext best thing im thrilled cuz everytime i play on location its beat to shit and dark af. the one i fot is almost pristine night and day difference.. such a better experience playing on a proper machine.. then i got hobbit from a diff company. it was 4 for a month 50 pick up delivery im so stoked on hobbit i wana get one for a while now. helps local businesses too. but 500 2 month min is a lil dos mucho.. i mean if its goin to a home thats good and safe itl b fine. most people prob dont got an extra 1000.. for games. mine was way cheaper so i could justify...anyways just sayin. i wouldnt have done it if i had to drop 1000 they better have some dope ass games avail.. like all jersey jacks lol‍♂️

i got fishtales from him. the homie!!

This is the biggest cause of damage. A game on location would likely be there for at least 6 months, but I've had some for 3+ years. That's much better than moving a game every month or two (for home rentals).

This isn't as nearly much of an issue at venues, which are designed for high traffic: hundreds or thousands of patrons. But at homes...people don't want so much as a tiny scratch on their hardwood floors. I had someone insist on taping foam on the lip of the floor leading to the first step so that it wouldn't be damaged by the dolly rolling over it.

Walls too are a big one. In homes, they are pristine and white. Any little ding is immediately obvious.

The numbers would say this is more likely on location. But aside from beer spills, I've never had anything happen to my on location games in 5+ years (except the head of one game was damaged by venue employees when they moved a game and clipped a doorframe on the way through). Haven't had enough games in homes to compare.

There is a massive difference between doing repair work on 10 games in once place vs. 10 games in 10 different places. Also, with games on location, you have known hours when you can show up and do repairs without needing to coordinate. In homes, you'll probably only get small windows of time on specific days (and usually nights and weekends) to do repairs. (Although that statement no longer holds during Covid.)

I think theft could be more likely at homes, but I haven't done enough at homes to judge. Is a complete loss from fire more likely at an arcade or a home? Dunno. I have had leaking pipes from above drip onto games on location, but it was caught immediately.

For me, with venues, the moving is generally easier and known ahead of time. The doorways and inner spaces are wider and designed to accommodate large items.

I haven't moved that many games into and out of homes, but I'd say 75% of the time, there is something difficult about the space that I wasn't discovered until the last second. Different moves lately:

- Door at bottom of stairs needed to be taken off hinges and child gate needed to be unscrewed from wall at top of the stairs. Was told there were no stairs to go up, but there were actually 3 up the front walkway to the house.
- Redone hardwood stairs, freshly painted walls...with a double landing in the middle
- Different house: Redone hardwood stairs, freshly painted walls...with a double landing in the middle where the landing turned out to be too small if the game was on a dolly (which I didn't discover until my non stair-climbing dolly was halfway down the stairs, and unable to be tipped upright)
- Outdoor steps made of cinderblocks that were not regulation depth (they were so steep that the dolly wasn't really able to work as intended)
- Doorway -> turn down stairs with no room to tip dolly, followed by stairs -> turn onto walkway with no room to tip dolly -> more stairs
- Stairs -> landing -> turn to more stairs -> space at landing of bottom of stairs is so narrow that the game becomes wedged between the wall and bottom step
- Door off hinges, hallway turn, hallway turn, too narrow for dolly, elevator so small that the machine rides by itself, narrow doorway -> narrow turn -> stairs -> awkward turn down step
- A walkout basement! Backyard has lumpy, uneven ground, with pavers that are about 2 inches narrower than the outer width of the dolly wheelbase. Stone steps narrow, different heights, and slightly curving
- Gravel driveway like quicksand with a machine on a dolly, entry through large wooden gate where the ground transitions from gravel -> flat round stone -> brick just as you pass between the narrow fence opening, two uneven stone steps with a one inch lip that is difficult to roll over, extra high single step onto a landing with a door that needs to be removed (and is too small to rotate the machine while on a dolly), stairs with three inches of extra width, another door off hinges through a doorway that is one inch wider than the machine and has a wall corner that prevents a game from being tipped back on a dolly. This is my house...I actually had to remove the head of High Speed to get it through because it's a bit wider. Also, games with toppers like FT and TAF must be positioned along one wall so that the topper can be fit between the joists. Head must be put upright before putting the back legs on, and then game is lifted up into place while legs are secured.

I'd never really thought of it before, but every location and office where I've had machines (except one) are much easier moves than any home move I've never done. Wide entrances, no narrow hallways and doorways, and most of them have elevators!

So the consesus is yes? No?

I would assume finding people you TRUST to move a game for $50 an hour adds even another layer of difficulty. Even if you can find bodies, what happens if they drop it, something comes loose in transport that causes something to not work or break, etc. As much as I hate moving games in and out of my basement (and I even have an escalara) I really only trust myself to do it, because if something bad happens I'm the only person involved in the equation. I'd rather mess up myself then have a second person involved and have to worry about who is now responsible for what, or even worse, if a person is hurt in addition to game damage. The whole rental thing seems like a huge hassle with pretty minimal upside unless you are making insane money off the games.

If you are interested in renting pinball games in Colorado, shoot me a message and we can talk about what I can do to help you feed your pinball needs!

Have a great day and stay healthy!

Can’t blame you. No way I would rent given those terms. Not the user’s fault at all if an electronic fault happens. Like LTG said though at least his terms were clear, makes it an easy decision to pass. Maybe you can find someone else to rent from with terms that are more reasonable for the renter.

Yeah...I was just disappointed since I was all ready to pay and rent one. Yeah maybe I'll try a few other barcades around here and see what they are doing.