With automobiles, it's ALL about originality. With pinballs a HEP machine with a new play field, art, even cab can increase the value of the game by 3x.

Sorry man, your post is meaningless.

Ya MM is really great news,can not wait for it to get home and stay there forever...i love the Goblins and saving the Princess

There has to be enough buyers for the original to sustain the pricing. There will always be a handful of people wanting mint originals, but for the most part most people who want an MM will take an MMR.

That ebay auction has zero bids at that price. I can put anything on Ebay and list it at 80k, its a matter of if people will buy it. I understand that the original is worth substantially more than the remake, but in this case, maybe not 80k.

We all have a choice now. You can buy a brand new one to play for $7995 or a HUO version of the Remake for less as the years go by. If you MUST have an original, you can buy one too...for more, if you feel like it I guess.

WIN WIN!

i had a 1971 Challenger it was nothing compared to my 2010 Challenger with all the cool features,Hot seats
Big heavy radio with Boston Accoustic speakers and Radio with 30 gig of storage,the body curves of the 2010 is insane!!

And i hope to love my new MM just as well!

Lol, and yet most are 15-40k
There is an MM for sale on Ebay for 24k. Does not mean it will sell. The CQ version will have a market but for most..

15,999

(CC-459507) 1969 Dodge Charger

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1969 Dodge Charger

$39,999

(CC-459503) 1969 Dodge Charger

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All correct RT SE, Hemi orange car, # Matching, BUILD SHEET. CALIFORNIA CAR!!!!!!!!!! This RT has only one repaint and is a super super soli... (Read more)

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1969 Dodge Charger

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(CC-453593) 1969 Dodge Charger

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I'm one of the handful as I will always pick original over remake (personal preference). Luckily I bought my MM 10 years ago for half of the MMRs. I do hope the MMR are nice and play exactly the same. For me, this means lots of spare pf parts (castle gate, drawbridge hinges, lock door and hinges, troll carriages, etc.).

Sounds like your pro-choice

.

Op, you're original argument does not make sense to me. If Dodge announced tomorrow that they were going to release a 1970 Charger remake that will look just like the original 1970 version but with all new parts and some slight technological advances. Then we have an apples to apples comparison. And I believe if they did such a thing the value of the 1970 model would be affected negatively.

Now, if PPS had announced they were instead making a Medieval Madness Pinball 2000 game rather than an almost exact copy. Then your original post would apply.

I'll give you this. That always has been my Challenger of choice.

Well yah. Out of all the people who buy cars in 2013, do you believe most of them are also considering a car from the 70's? Obviously not.

Out of all the people buying pinball machines in 2013, do you belive most of them are also considering a pin from the late 90's? They are for good reason.

You're not causing a stir, you are making no sense.

I'm in for Pinball Fun only!!! Value,Market...D'ont really care!

This will be a market correction, plain and simple. The nostalgic value of MM isn't wide spread enough to justify the price gap with MMR.

Buy an MMr and each boy can have one. They will be worth roughly the same, regardless.

The original will be worth more...how can a knockoff, that doesn't even have the original manufactures logo, uses LED's, and a chinese made surface mount PCB be more desireable?

When MM14 is released and you go to sell your game, I'm sure you'll be asking yourself the same question. With this, I hope you are one of the suckers who are into their game for $13K because you obviously couldn't afford it.

$7000 price tag is still a shit load to pay for a pin.... Can I get a pro without the trolls for $4500? I might be in at 7k for a BBB but still can't justify over 5k especially since I will not be putting on location to make some back...

Will prices adjust down the line? Maybe 10% drop on all titles?

And yes once 4000 new MM come outit will lower MM value... Basic economics guys....

All pins need replacement parts eventually, so how many original MMs are really full stock? Not only that but most had burnt pin connectors. I have a TOTAN that I've tricked out in very possible way cosmetically, but sometimes the boards, connectors, and other things are problematic. I would much rather have a remade TOTAN than the one I have. I don't collect baseball cards, I play pinball.

I'm thinking the new one may end up being better than the original.

Shhhhhh....shhhhhhh

Lol, seriously?? Buy a 20 year old version or a new version. Game play the same. You have no chance of selling me the old one unless its stupid cheaper.

I would take a MMR (nib) over a true HUO MM (16 year old pin ) any day of the week. Now if you throw in a HEP CQ pin this is a different story and im sure it would go for a bit more then a NIB MMR. But for me...MMR all day long! I would not pay the extra $$ for a HEP CQ MM.

Nope....I got my MM for MUCH cheaper than the REPRO's. So I'm ahead of the game no matter what...I'm laughing at you guys thinking you are getting a better machine.

...keep laughing...

I case you guys didn't see this posted on the one of the other MMr threads

Here is a post from a fellow member who had test played the machine and his words describing it:

(member: Pinballphil)

"OK, First I'm a little reluctant to even post since I'm selling these quickly without even advertising. I have been in the Home Arcade business full-time since 1978 and have never seen such a buzz about a new release before. I've been dealing with Chicago Gaming for 20 years. I was involved since the beginning of this project as well as their successful Arcade Legends game. My main business is home service calls and I am very busy in the Chicagoland area. I only say that because I am not a regular pinsider and don't really have time to get involved. I can offer periodical updates. I personally know the owner of the factory producing this game and I can say that they are a very reputable company that has been in business for over 100 years. They build many cabinets for many coin-op brands. I've even seen an antique trade stimulator that had their name stamped on the cabinet inside.

Now for the best news!! I just played the prototype yesterday. It is awesome! It plays just like the original with their new electronics. It's still early in the stages but it is a phenomenal copy of the original. It is running with Williams software and their own new electronics. I will say from a technician's view, the new system is incredible. It will make service so easy. Connectors for switches, no lamp or switch matrix, interchangeable processor/driver boards, a reliable cpu, a lot less wires. Did I say a lot less wires, I mean like hardly any! As for reliability, these surface mount LED's and components have improved so dramatically with cell phones that there is no reason to ever consider building a pinball the old way. Let me ask, who's worried about the bouncing of their cell phone in their pocket? I really think the vibration issue isn't an issue at all. As for the LED's, they look great! Their light fill the lenses completely, with a perfect hue and no strobing at all. The cabinet looks better than any repro I've seen. I'm not just saying that, I'd stake my 35 years in the industry on it."

The first revue sounds promising, and he is offering an extended warrantee. That says a lot.

Good for you...but why laugh at those of us who will most likely have never gotten a cheaper MM unless this remake happened? I got my MB for $4k - but if PPS remakes it I'm not gonna laugh at anyone who's excited to get a new one.

Let's be realistic. What's the value of an original perfect condition backglass for Captain Fantastic? $300?

OK now how much for a flawless repro?...hmmm about $300. Apple.. meet Apple.

I am a big MM fan but, in my opinion, nice originals are just mainly repros anyways (new repro decals, new repro playfield, some repro playfield parts, repro boards, etc).

So what do I care if it is a repro MMR or original MM? I want a quality machine at a fair price (and 15k is not a fair price for a reapiared 20 year old "original" MM). If the repro "feels" like a Bally/Williams WPC game from the 90s when you are standing behind it it's all good to me. They are really well built, solid machines and (hopefully) this one will be too.

If it "feels" like a DE/Sega game from the same time period (and sounds like one with the strobe clicking and all) I wouldn't really want it. They are kind of a junky build.

Just my 2 cents and the reason I'll to buy it until I actually see it, maybe I'll even be a ble to pick up a used MMR for under 5k at some point. That would be pretty sweet...

Thats not apple meet apple.....you might have to make the following adjustments to your comparison:

The repro backglass does not have the manufactures name or logo
The repro backglass does not look like the original when illuminated (LED's vs. bulbs)
The repro backglass was made by someone who has never built one before....
Now that's a bit more accurate...

your first two points have zero impact on the game (heck the second one arguably improves it). the third point is wrong. The new machines are being made in the same factory as the original, by a company that's been doing this for 100 years. Chicago Coin made the original playfields and currently makes Stern playfields too. They're not an unknown upstart.

I'll start a poll, (like we need another MMR post)
Q: You have a choice between an original MM - nice but not perfect (as most are) for 8K or a NIB MMR. Which do you choose? My bet is you'll get a pretty even split on the vote.

Q: how do you start a poll?

On average, the condition of your MM just plummeted and so did it's value. In this case, with you, that makes me really happy

OMFG, it's so hard to get a new nex-gen translite.

They made the wood parts, they didn't make the games. Unless Williams is stopping slot production MMR is not being made in the same factory.

I might be making this up, but I believe what he was saying is that Chicago Gaming took the building over from Williams when they shut down pinball production. So, same factory, same building, but different company.

Check the poll, how do you like them apples?
http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/nib-mmr-vs-average-original-mm

That's not a poll. Its the new market : o

On classic cars numbers need to match I'll bet the one your talking about doesn't have a 318 out of a dart. A lot of the original mm were built out of everything. Some custom cars bring a ton of money if they were built right. So maybe you should ask if I sent a mmle to hep to work his magic on how would it compare to a beat up original he has gone through.

Because it's a pinball machine and is basically technology based. Who wants an Atari 2600 over a Xbox One? Perhaps on American Pickers in the year 3035 original MM's might be worth more than the remakes but for the next several years they will not be worth anymore than the re-makes. I'm an original MM owner who "was" in the market for a CC but there is no way I am buying a CC for more than $10k at this point given the real possibility of a CCr; and at $10k that CC needs to be CQ.

Buy a restored original MM that as a new playfield new decal new plastic new coin door new translite new trims... that is king of like a Remake! No?

No, IMHO. The restored machine still has the original design of board sets, wiring, factory logo, insert and translite lighting setup..etc. it's restored to the true original format.

Hate to use classic sport car (apple vs orange)analogy, but a "nicely" restored collectible ____ (fill in the blank sport car) will always bring in more $$$ than a unrestored rust bucket, or a kit/repro/remake/ wannabe example. It will be Only less than a pristine, all original, super low mileage, garage queen. Even then, the garage queen will still need to change it's hoses, belts, battery, gasket, oil/filter, brakes, tires...etc before being drivable. So there will never be a "true original"(by definition) specimen.

For a player point of view, the new MMr is more than acceptable. For both collecting AND playing purposes, original Williams MM still wins. It only matters with the end user's personal intent/preference.

Because its brand new and thousands of dollars cheaper than the 17 year old routed games people have been forced to buy if they had to have MM. Duh.

or...

Original BBB versus the remake the original BBB was worth more.
Original NOS MM playfields versus NIB remade playfields the NOS is worth more. (Not a blown out used MM- condition is equal)

Lets just keep it real. When these come out the market will decide how much they are worth. Right now everything is just speculation. My guess, a NIB MMR will be more sought after than a used MM. People will want to play/own a better condition pin.

In 20 years from now, with all things being equal with condition and wear, the original will probably be worth more than the remake. (Again, if condition is equal)

Not exactly equal, though .. Original BBB had a lot less than remake BBB .. There are still, as of now, less MMR's than MM's. Original NOS playfields work better than remade playfields, and are (usually) easier to swap as the alignments on remakes seemingly always have some problems. Not to mention that there's no reason to think more remakes won't happen every couple of years as well.