(Topic ID: 191079)

Stern reliability: S.A.M. vs SPIKE

By halflip87

6 years ago


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  • 368 posts
  • 94 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by kvan99
  • Topic is favorited by 21 Pinsiders

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    Topic poll

    “Which system is more reliable and repair friendly?”

    • S.A.M. 176 votes
      90%
    • Spike 20 votes
      10%

    (196 votes)

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    SPIKE.jpg
    Wiley E Coyote Tricked.jpg
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    1141cb3f415534bc4b87b6066071d20ffadc483e (resized).jpg
    pinball-stepper-repair-02 (resized).jpg
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    Stern Wiring Diagram IMG_2198 (resized).jpg
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    #62 6 years ago
    Quoted from schudel5:

    I don't think that all node boards are 'universal' across the entire Spike line. There seems to be various part numbers of node boards and the compatibility of the boards in certain titles leads me to believe that you'd have to stock several different ones depending on the game it's going into. That just seems to add another layer of complexity into the mix.
    If I were a Spike owner I would probably buy a spare of each board for down the road. I know that doesn't sound feasible with node boards ($300 ea) and a CPU ($???), but a game that doesn't boot up isn't fun either.
    EDIT: http://www.marcospecialties.com/control/keywordsearch?SEARCH_STRING=node
    Looks like node boards seem to be $150 to $289. But the CPU prices are crazy! $419 for Spike 1 and $895 for Spike 2. Ouch!

    This scared me off. I loved my Ghostbusters LE, but I just sold it. Until I see better evidence for long-term reliability with Spike, I'm not risking it. I'll buy another GB down the road, but I feel like it's a ticking time bomb of wasted money right now.

    It really irritates me that they took away the ability to work on games for myself. Until I see improved signs of reliability, I'm going to be very wary of Spike games.

    #66 6 years ago

    Ghostbusters being on its own iteration of SPIKE is what bothered me the most. It's likely to be the least common set of boards to find in the future. With games going forward on a different version, they're going to be able to share parts and there should be available stock. When Ghostbusters goes out of production, how long will they keep boards on hand? How hard will it be to find a replacement?

    #93 6 years ago
    Quoted from merccat:

    Depends on where the price settles at. If replacement boards were 50-75 each I don't think anybody would care nearly as much.

    I'd still find it wasteful to swap an entire board when it's just a transistor that needs to be replaced.

    4 weeks later
    #140 6 years ago

    From a user's perspective, I've found no real benefits to SPIKE over SAM.

    3 weeks later
    #214 6 years ago
    Quoted from Spelunk71:

    I'd like to think so, but am getting concerned for the longterm operability of my GB.

    That's actually why I sold my GBLE. I love the game, but I want to be sure that it's not going to be a massively huge money sink. I had quite a few maintenance problems with it, and I just got scared off. I'll pick up a premium down the road if all is well, but I didn't want to roll the dice on Stern's ability to support the node board revision long term. Also, there are bugs they absolutely need to address in that game. It's unfinished at the code level.

    #218 6 years ago
    Quoted from smokedog:

    Replace WoZ with GB in your statement and it's pretty much exactly why I got rid of the WoZ LE I had.
    I've only had two node board issues so far with my Sterns (one GB, one GoT). *knocks on wood* Replacements came in two days direct from Stern, so down time was minimal.

    The major difference is that JJP is working to increase the reliability of their games while Stern is working to make them more difficult to maintain and less reliable. SPIKE is a nightmare and it's half-baked at best. It's the most problematic system they've had to date.

    #222 6 years ago
    Quoted from smokedog:

    Here's an honest question ... Do you think Stern really wants to make their games less reliable and more difficult to maintain, thereby alienating the entire Operator market and a large chunk of the home market, and in turn, possibly folding up shop because they no longer sell games? You honestly think that's their game plan with Spike?

    They want to remove the ability for the home owner to service their game. They did that, actually. The problem is that they released a new system that wasn't ready. It's still not ready. The SPIKE system sucks. There's not any other way to put it than that. People update their games and it bricks their game because of a node communication failure. What can they do? Wait for Stern to send new boards. What happens in 4-5 years when they're 3-4 revisions down the line? Will they still be stocking your boards? If not, how costly will it be to find a replacement? Will you be able to find a replacement?

    Whatever their intention, they're creating a future mess. Ghostbusters uses node board versions that aren't compatible with other games, so either Stern will have to warehouse a lot of replacement boards for future service needs or you're going to find big issues keeping those games going. Will an operator want to take the hundreds of dollars hit it will take to swap out a board once warranty runs out?

    SPIKE feels very disposable, and it's not a good look.

    #228 6 years ago
    Quoted from smokedog:

    You avoided answering my question.

    Do I think they want to make them harder to repair and maintain? Yes. They want to do it to make parts and service a viable revenue channel. They don't want you buying a transistor from a local electronics store for $2 to fix your game when they can sell you a $300 node board with a massive profit margin from their end.

    #232 6 years ago
    Quoted from smokedog:

    That was half the question. Here's the other half in case you stopped reading ...

    To be fully honest, it feels like the money guys want to squeeze as much as they can out of the industry now so that they can cash out. I can't say that's the case, but it sure looks like it.

    SPIKE is the result of desperation (pinball is not as healthy as we think), the result of incompetent engineering (even armchair engineers can point out TONS of reasons why they should have done things differently), or it's a sign that cranking profit margins up is priority #1 regardless of end result. It's probably the second scenario, but none of them are encouraging.

    Anybody who says that SPIKE is a step forward is either ignorant or lying. Objectively it's problematic. It can be revised into something better, but they're sure taking their sweet time getting there. We've already had several games put out on the platform, and they all have the same issues.

    #235 6 years ago
    Quoted from smokedog:

    Doesn't it seem that all manufacturers games now have components that are not user/operator serviceable?
    I haven't had a chance to peek under a Dialed In, but is every board under the hood able to be repaired with a $2 transistor?

    It's not just the level of serviceability. It's flawed in its design on top of things. It's more prone to failure than any other Stern system that came before it. That's the real kicker. If something is very reliable, then we don't have to worry so much about how easy it is to service. When it's very prone to failure, you bet it matters.

    #299 6 years ago

    Maybe they had to remove the power line out of the main cabinet when they removed the interlock safety switch.

    Edit: Wait, no. They removed the interlock after they moved the power switch.

    2 months later
    #343 6 years ago

    SPIKE can probably be good one day, but it's just not a finished platform. Maybe that happens with SPIKE 3 or whatever, but it's just not fully baked as it is. When code updates are literally burning out node boards, you know there's work left to be done.

    2 months later
    #352 6 years ago
    Quoted from jackofdiamonds:

    is that really happening??

    Star Wars had a code update that was causing a node board to fail, yes. It has been addressed though.

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