(Topic ID: 191079)

Stern reliability: S.A.M. vs SPIKE

By halflip87

6 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 368 posts
  • 94 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by kvan99
  • Topic is favorited by 21 Pinsiders

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    Topic poll

    “Which system is more reliable and repair friendly?”

    • S.A.M. 176 votes
      90%
    • Spike 20 votes
      10%

    (196 votes)

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    SPIKE.jpg
    Wiley E Coyote Tricked.jpg
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    1141cb3f415534bc4b87b6066071d20ffadc483e (resized).jpg
    pinball-stepper-repair-02 (resized).jpg
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    Stern Wiring Diagram IMG_2198 (resized).jpg
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    #4 6 years ago
    Quoted from halflip87:

    Hi Guys,
    I'm thinking about buying a new Stern game, but I have some concerns about the long term reliability of the Spike system, especially when I see posts about node boards crapping out within 100 plays. I'm no expert, but it looks like the SAM system is more robust and repair friendly. For operators, Spike is probably great since it's swap-a-board-and-go. For hobbyists, I would imagine SAM is more familiar repair-wise. Regardless, which system is more reliable?
    Do you think that after Stern stops supporting Spike games, the repair community will be able to handle fixing Node boards as easily as other systems?
    Thanks,
    -Doug

    SAM system games have been around a while and are fairly solid. They do have problems though like the flipper transistors, but they are easy to repair. Not so with SPIKE Forceflow posted some good links up about it. I have taken a look at Spike boards and would be really hesitant taking one on. Long term availability of boards could be an issue too. It appears that at least some boards are game specific so if that board is not available that is a problem.

    Not sure if any operators would like these. The boards are expensive and I would much rather spend a few dollars on a repair than hundreds. But it remains to be seen how reliable the boards are and how available they will be.

    Longer term I'm sure there will be people that will repair them but it will probably be fairly specialised and it will cost.

    #16 6 years ago
    Quoted from KozMckPinball:

    I see that the concern here is if Stern stops supporting SPIKE and we have to do our own repairs, but SAM was around in some form for 30ish years. Jody Dankberg's quoted thoughts from an online article:
    https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/01/catching-up-with-stern-pinball-on-its-new-spike-system-and-wrestlemania-limited-edition/
    "The old system “has a half a mile of wires, one motherboard, and everything is connected through that,” Dankberg told Ars. “It really hasn't changed very much in the last 30 years.”
    The SPIKE system, on the other hand, is more modern and modular. “We've eliminated the CPUs in the back box… on the play field there's a bus system, a series of the little node boards. The intelligence is distributed through the board,” Dankberg continued, adding that all of the lighting on Wrestlemania is LED rather than fluorescent.
    “Pinball is making a comeback,” Dankberg explained, saying that for a lot of people, that half mile of wires can be intimidating. A more modular system like Spike, however, is “easy to repair, easy to diagnose, [it] eliminates time to manufacture, and everything's connected through data cables that are plug in as opposed to [requiring] soldering.”
    Further Reading
    Got bit, fever hit: The Walking Dead pinball shambles into game rooms
    Dankberg also said that because of the new modularity of the SPIKE system, parts will be more readily available and easier to fix. It's also scalable, so Stern plans to use the same boards to power full-color LCD displays, networked machines, diagnostic software, and even NFC systems like Apple Pay and Google Wallet."

    Of course Stern/Jody is going to talk about how great their new system is. I personally find it MUCH easier to diagnose a problem with miles of wire and boards when everything is clearly documented. Node boards are mysteries that you don't bother solving, you just replace them. If you have a game covered under warranty and stern is sending you new boards it is not too big of a problem. If that is not the case it can get expensive fast.

    Stern is building games this way because it is cheaper for them to do so. Look at the wiring in a SAM and you can see straight away how much more time it would take to put a SAM game together as opposed to a SPIKE. Time and materials are money.

    #34 6 years ago
    Quoted from wayout440:

    Evolution of technology my friend, just look at past history. Electronics products are built faster, spend shorter and shorter times on the market, and electronics components go obsolete faster and faster. 10-15 years of board availability?...you'll be lucky if you get 5. Hopefully, enough technical data will leak out that will allow a third party to develop a replacement if OEM parts vanish, much like we have Alltek, Rottendog, XPin and others making boards for the older stuff now.

    I think we can all agree that this is the way technology is moving, it is all disposable. It would be nice to hear some sort of statement from stern about future support for SPIKE boards and if they will make schematics available once they no longer produce a particular board.

    #73 6 years ago

    I just replaced q15 and q16 on my Metallica. About $4 in parts plus shipping and a couple fuses. I took it slow and it took me maybe 10 minutes to fix the board. I suspect someone just sat there and held both flippers on until they blew (it is on location). I wonder what that would have cost me if it was a spike game...

    #75 6 years ago
    Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

    A new $300 MPU board direct from Stern or suppliers, unless you are familiar and have the equipment to do SMD work which many do not.
    That is while it is still available right now.
    Sending it out for repair will cost $75-100 + shipping in a proper static proof bag from a handful of people that work on modern PCBs, and the number is just not that high right now, although I am sure if a person invests time in finding industry worker locally, they could find someone that could do the job properly on the soldering, but not necessarily the logic or knows how the boards work.
    I would hate to see a mistake done in troubleshooting by someone before installing a replacement.
    Poof! Another $300 please...
    Coincidentally, when Stern did a small rerun of WhiteStar board sets a few years back for suppliers, they sold out immediately.

    Exactly. I was really keen to pick up a HUO GoT that a guy here is having a hard time selling. I was going to route it and then sell it on the cheap side and I should have come out ahead and it should have been a slam dunk since I could have got it for about 3/4 of the NIB price.

    The only person I know routing spike games has not had any problems with his so that is a good sign but his games don't get as much play as mine do. Mine get hammered on pretty good so for now, Spike is a deal breaker for me as node boards are just too expensive. I can't fix them and would have to ship overseas for that.

    I just don't see how lots of game specific individual boards you can't fix very easily could have ever been seen as a good idea.

    #97 6 years ago
    Quoted from merccat:

    Depends on where the price settles at. If replacement boards were 50-75 each I don't think anybody would care nearly as much.

    That would be much more tolerable!

    For us in New Zealand as soon as something hits about US$300 we have to pay taxes and import charges on it so that adds another~20% so with shipping I am looking at about US$400 or NZ$500 for one board. I had some things break on my WOZ but all up I spent less than that over a few years including having it on location for a year. On my sterns I don't think I have spent more than about 100 on parts for any one game, assimilate with BWs

    8 months later
    #363 6 years ago
    Quoted from daspadger:

    Been following this thread, I have a SAM 520-5325-00 and 520-5249-00 board set IRON MAN VE PRO, everyone saying how easy it is to maintain and such, but I'm having a hard time finding anywhere that will sell the SAM boards new (whilst I get these repaired eventually!).
    I'm in the UK too, not that I mind buying USA components, but it appears they won't work.
    Can anyone point me in the right direction? Thanks in advance.

    They really are pretty easy to fix so hopefully you can find someone that can help out.

    As a comparison, an operator friend of mine has a bad node board on GoT. He has been tying for over a month now to get a replacement. It isn't fixable. His distributor didn't do anything and Stern kept giving him the run around. It was amazing how hard it is for him to buy the board. Finally he emailed gary stern who apparently has told them to give him one after all the run around.

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