Quoted from barakandl:

Which is fine, just not what pin heads are used to.
Say in 5 years from now, Stern comes out with a new system called SPUNK instead of SPIKE. How long does Stern keep making SPIKE node boards. How long did they sell WhiteStar boards?
People can make a new replacement classic Bally MPU because of the schematics and servicing guides Bally provided. If no detailed info on Spike is available, the future repairability of the games 5-15 years from now is questionable.

Quoted from HighVoltage:

This Spike architecture sounds flawed. In a distributed architecture like this, one of the points and benefits if you spread out the processing, is to reduce a single central point of failure. Ideally, if a node went down it should only result in partial failure - the relevant subsection of the game - but the whole should keep operating. That not being the case, suggests a poor design in the software, and what we actually have is a system which is worse than a monolithic design: it has multiple points of failure, all of which render the whole game inoperable. This is a defect in the overall operating system, but it is something that could potentially be addressed by a redesign / update.
This sounds like what happens when you have a game designer develop the operating system / architecture.
It's not surprising the first incarnation of Spike could not support video / LCD as was intended.

Quoted from cooked71:

So this happened on my ASLE today: mid game, finished a song, animation for Super came up and the game froze. But flippers/lights/music worked, could still hit the ball, but nothing else was working, no scoring, no magnet no sounds. Until I hit the scoop and it just sat in there.
Then another game, it went dark, and all but shut down, except flippers were working. Could hit the ball for about 2 minutes, with no lights/sound etc. then it eventually did a full reset.
Never had anything like it happen on any other pre-Spike 2 game.

Quoted from Bendit:

That's true indeed! With Ubuntu's "universal" drivers, chances are a mobo swap of the same generation would just work indeed.
Good point.

Quoted from jwilson:

Stern is in the business of selling you a new machine. Making old ones expensive to service seems right in line with that.

Quoted from merccat:

I don't see JJP's architecture as comparable:
- Off the shelf CPU board with a linux base OS vs proprietary CPU board with proprietary base OS
- Traditional single power driver board and power supply board with hole-through compnents vs node board modules with surface mount components.
In this way JJP's architecture is much more similar to P2K but actually simplified because there is no PRISM boards to worry about.
The one similarity is the lighting sytem which is a data driven modular design. I actually don't really see any other way to efficiently and cost effeively run RGB lighting if you want to have it, and I think this is one area where it is worth it.
However still not that similar because while an issue here will impact lights it won't take down the entire game. Also they have since addressed the issues caused by a serial chain by moving to a parallel system with a hub so if a light board goes out only the one light board is impacted. If nodes were architectured more in this manner I actually would be a little less concerned.

Quoted from Bendit:

JJP's CPU "boards" are just desktop computer motherboards, the generic kind. As long as it's the x64 architecture of motherboards, the generic Linux drivers should just work. There's no dedicated video card in the JJP metal case, which means that they use generic video drivers that are build into the Linux install, using the onboard video device of the desktop motherboard. That's sustainable and universal.
I've had Linux installs run on VERY old motherboards. I would also guess that finding NOS motherboards in the future might not be that hard. There are way more desktop motherboards in the world today than Spike CPU boards. And that's a fact that will remain for decades.
I think it's funny how people here defend the longevity of proprietary Spike boards versus generic x64 desktop motherboards. You kidding me? x64 motherboards have been in production for what? a decade already?

Once the generic x64 motherboards are gone? They're all over the planet! And you know what? The capacitors on desktop motherboards can be replaced too! They are not the size of flea testicles.
Limitations and a mixed blessing. Because modern motherboards already has bluetooth hardware built in, it was a natural thing to do for JJP to comply with it and use it in their games. Granted, older x64 motherboards does not support bluetooth.
Now, if Stern wants to implement Bluetooth in their games, they'll need another version of the Spike board (version 4 now?), and add all the components required for Bluetooth communication...

Quoted from Bendit:

What are you talking about? The USB extension cable?

Quoted from Bendit:

No way. All the motherboards that I have seen support bluetooth without additional USB devices. BlueTooth has nothing to do with USB. In fact, Universal Serial Bus has been around 10+ years before the first version of Bluetooth.
Drives? You mean drivers?
But yes, you could add bluetooth support via a USB device. My point was that you don't have to, if the motherboards has it onboard already.

Quoted from smokedog:

What happens when the base Linux OS causes a bug that doesnt get fixed by JJP? Doesn't WoZ and Hobbit suffer a bug when on for extended periods of time? I think I've read that a few operators are having to run older software in order for them to be used on route.

Quoted from Bendit:

Has there been a real-world documented case of this?
Linux is known for its generic drivers that work on pretty much anything.

Quoted from Bendit:

So there you have it guys. Awesome discussion. I suspect the issues listed above are from the JJP software that runs on top of Linux. So in 10 years, if nothing changes in the JJP software, you'd still have that sound popping. If reverting to software 5.x in WOZ fixes the problem, it's software-related, not hardware.
This thread seems to be about hardware sustainability. But since we're talking about JJP hardware, I guess we're off topic...

Quoted from Gexchange:

I can only speak for what Ive seen in the Industry. Megatouch uses Linux as well and only works with X boards. I believe Raw thrills does as well and same issue (Raw thrills does use Video Card Drivers) Its been a HUGE issue in the business. Going back to 486 games that can be repaired anymore due to Bad Mother boards. Pb2000 Being one of these.
JJ

Quoted from Bendit:

The 486 was a 32bit CPU. x64 is backwards compatible with 32bit systems. I bet you could run that DTS software engine today and it would work.

Quoted from pinball_keefer:

Spoken like someone without much Linux experience.

I can guarantee you that is not the case.

Servers that aren't pushing out a ton of AV I'd imagine.
Most of the issues we've found can be traced back to generally-Intel-provided drivers.

I'm not worried about it. We're already x64 anyway.

Quoted from Bendit:

You are 100% correct. In this case, email and data-related servers, no AV.
I have a billion questions for you. Intel-provided drivers for onboard audio and video drivers, correct?
You guys use Intel-specific drivers? Not the generic-device ones?
You guys use OpenGL libraries for audio and video? Or did you code your own low-level engines?
How about the Bluetooth stuff, generic Linux drivers?
(I have a thread on the google group called "Hobbit - Sound Question (sound glitches)", I am extremely curious about this minor issue which I would guess is drivers-related)

Quoted from merccat:

Precisely! Software engineers of today should be completely aware of mis-steps of the past and there are well established practices today to minimize such risk. Binding yourself to specific technologies is now a known anti-pattern and the value of abstractions have been realized by most. From Keith's comments JJP obviously gets this and has positioned their software architecture properly.

Quoted from DDDwingmaster:

If the spike communication protocol is known, then even in 20 years you would be able to design a new node board. The actual hardware used on them is not that important, as long as they understand the network protocol to talk to it.
Lucky for us the mission pinball framework project has already partly reverse engineered the spike networking protocol. The hope is that they are able to fully decode the protoco. Even better would it be if Stern release the protocol specification.
So the wait is for the full protocol spec and someone designing a third party node board.

Quoted from spazzman90:

At this point, I have a Star Wars where the screen randomly turns off (game still plays, must be power cycled), Game of Thrones that will randomly reboot, and a Ghostbusters where the top half playfield switches stop responding (again, reboot and all will be fine). Tough thing is all these issues only crop up once or twice a week. Machines get pretty good play. Stern is willing to send stuff, but they have to idea as to the true solution to any of these issues.

Quoted from CaptainNeo:

i shouldn't have to stock up on $300 node boards...and not just one type, at least 3 different types. So say you need 3 of each on hand for the distant future. That's 9 boards minimum. And that's if they don't change it again through another release. So I have to have $2700 in boards sitting around, instead of piles of .01 cent diodes, $2 chips, and .05 transistors? Screw that and screw stern for fawking over the guys that like to service their games instead of making them disposable!

Quoted from StylesBitchly:

What bothers me is that if I cannot diagnose and repair my own pins, new pinball machines are going to become the domain of people wealthier than me just like everything else that floats, flies or fucks.

Quoted from Phat_Jay:

I see a factory warranty being offered in the future at point of sale for a price......just like autos. “These aren’t your dads pinball machine, they require professional service” they will tell us. They did it to cars, now they’re doing it to pinball. Next they will tell us it’s not our machine, we only “licensed” it’s use when we “paid” for it.

Quoted from Phat_Jay:

I see a factory warranty being offered in the future at point of sale for a price......just like autos. “These aren’t your dads pinball machine, they require professional service” they will tell us. They did it to cars, now they’re doing it to pinball. Next they will tell us it’s not our machine, we only “licensed” it’s use when we “paid” for it.

Quoted from jackofdiamonds:I am Service dept manager for a major Broadway audio production facility.Very few component level repairs being done.Its mostly board swaps.We have several bench techs who do hands on repairs but its expensive and time consuming.Our access to schematics is based on whether or not we are authorized.Stern should either provide authorized "service centers"(this could be an op or restorer)or they should provide schematics.Basically some sort of "support" for their products.

Quoted from jar155:

Star Wars had a code update that was causing a node board to fail, yes. It has been addressed though.