(Topic ID: 191079)

Stern reliability: S.A.M. vs SPIKE


By halflip87

2 years ago



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  • 368 posts
  • 94 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 months ago by kvan99
  • Topic is favorited by 23 Pinsiders

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    Topic poll

    “Which system is more reliable and repair friendly?”

    • S.A.M. 173 votes
      91%
    • Spike 17 votes
      9%

    (190 votes)

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    There are 368 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 8.
    #1 2 years ago

    Hi Guys,

    I'm thinking about buying a new Stern game, but I have some concerns about the long term reliability of the Spike system, especially when I see posts about node boards crapping out within 100 plays. I'm no expert, but it looks like the SAM system is more robust and repair friendly. For operators, Spike is probably great since it's swap-a-board-and-go. For hobbyists, I would imagine SAM is more familiar repair-wise. Regardless, which system is more reliable?

    Do you think that after Stern stops supporting Spike games, the repair community will be able to handle fixing Node boards as easily as other systems?

    Thanks,
    -Doug

    #2 2 years ago
    Quoted from halflip87:

    Do you think that after Stern stops supporting Spike games, the repair community will be able to handle fixing Node boards as easily as other systems?

    That's the $300 question.

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/are-sterns-node-boards-repairable/

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/spike-board-repair-resource

    #3 2 years ago

    maybe since almost everything is smd it's going to force people out of their comfort zones and make them buy more expensive soldering tools in order to repair these things. I don't think everyone is going to drop 1+k on fancy soldering tools, but almost anyone can buy a crappy pencil iron from sears for 5 bucks. this is one of the many reason's I believe it will be more difficult. less people trying to fix the items, leads to less communication on said fixes. I bought a couple of fancy tools, but I'm no where close to being ready to tackle one of those boards.

    #4 2 years ago
    Quoted from halflip87:

    Hi Guys,
    I'm thinking about buying a new Stern game, but I have some concerns about the long term reliability of the Spike system, especially when I see posts about node boards crapping out within 100 plays. I'm no expert, but it looks like the SAM system is more robust and repair friendly. For operators, Spike is probably great since it's swap-a-board-and-go. For hobbyists, I would imagine SAM is more familiar repair-wise. Regardless, which system is more reliable?
    Do you think that after Stern stops supporting Spike games, the repair community will be able to handle fixing Node boards as easily as other systems?
    Thanks,
    -Doug

    SAM system games have been around a while and are fairly solid. They do have problems though like the flipper transistors, but they are easy to repair. Not so with SPIKE Forceflow posted some good links up about it. I have taken a look at Spike boards and would be really hesitant taking one on. Long term availability of boards could be an issue too. It appears that at least some boards are game specific so if that board is not available that is a problem.

    Not sure if any operators would like these. The boards are expensive and I would much rather spend a few dollars on a repair than hundreds. But it remains to be seen how reliable the boards are and how available they will be.

    Longer term I'm sure there will be people that will repair them but it will probably be fairly specialised and it will cost.

    #5 2 years ago

    Their is no doubt that objectively SAM is easier to repair.
    Reliability? Who can tell yet? Although I've had more node problems than SAM problems, come to think of it. And had ten times as many SAM games.

    #6 2 years ago

    I've only got one spike game and it's down at the moment, an I honestly don't know where to start or what to look for, the sam system i knew where to start looking an also a lot more information an people to help you here on pinside because people are more familiar with it due to its age.

    #7 2 years ago

    Looks like this was settled in a record few number of posts. But it will be interesting how many high location play spike games become bricks in 5 or so years.

    13
    #8 2 years ago

    Poor reliability of spike games could have a detrimental effect to value of games. If they turn out to have some chronic flaw that shows up in all the games 5 years now (ie wpc resets, burned GI, etc), but the flaw is on a board not manufactured anymore and not easily serviced could result and games turning into giant paperweights starting a free fall of game prices. No one pay 8k for something that might fail and be unfixable.

    My early feeling about the spike system is not good... I hope I am wrong and it is a solid platform.

    #9 2 years ago

    I currently own 5 SAM games and have previously owned 13 others and never had a single problem with the main boards. I helped a friend fix a bad transistor on a Tron, and it was fine after that. I had a lot of problems with X-Men LE, but that was due to the Aux boards....most SAM games didn't have those.

    #10 2 years ago

    I'd like to know what the fuck a "node" is? It sounds so fruity like a made up word.

    #11 2 years ago

    maybe stern made themselfs a great aftersales businessmodel this way, maybe they will be selling replacement spike boards in a few years?

    anyone knows from what year/games they started spiking?

    #12 2 years ago
    Quoted from KenLayton:

    I'd like to know what the fuck a "node" is? It sounds so fruity like a made up word.

    A node is a computer science term that you may not be familiar with. It is, in simple terms - a "data point on a network". Your PC, or your cell phone, can be considered as a node of a larger network. In our audio products, we have a number of devices that take on that characteristic and have the term node as a part of their name.

    system_drawing_xNodes1 (resized).jpg

    #13 2 years ago

    I see that the concern here is if Stern stops supporting SPIKE and we have to do our own repairs, but SAM was around in some form for 30ish years. Jody Dankberg's quoted thoughts from an online article:

    https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/01/catching-up-with-stern-pinball-on-its-new-spike-system-and-wrestlemania-limited-edition/

    "The old system “has a half a mile of wires, one motherboard, and everything is connected through that,” Dankberg told Ars. “It really hasn't changed very much in the last 30 years.”

    The SPIKE system, on the other hand, is more modern and modular. “We've eliminated the CPUs in the back box… on the play field there's a bus system, a series of the little node boards. The intelligence is distributed through the board,” Dankberg continued, adding that all of the lighting on Wrestlemania is LED rather than fluorescent.

    “Pinball is making a comeback,” Dankberg explained, saying that for a lot of people, that half mile of wires can be intimidating. A more modular system like Spike, however, is “easy to repair, easy to diagnose, [it] eliminates time to manufacture, and everything's connected through data cables that are plug in as opposed to [requiring] soldering.”

    Further Reading
    Got bit, fever hit: The Walking Dead pinball shambles into game rooms
    Dankberg also said that because of the new modularity of the SPIKE system, parts will be more readily available and easier to fix. It's also scalable, so Stern plans to use the same boards to power full-color LCD displays, networked machines, diagnostic software, and even NFC systems like Apple Pay and Google Wallet."

    #14 2 years ago
    Quoted from KozMckPinball:

    but SAM was around in some form for 30ish years.

    30 years!? SAM was introduced with WPT in 2006. Before that was Whitestar.

    #15 2 years ago
    Quoted from KozMckPinball:

    I see that the concern here is if Stern stops supporting SPIKE and we have to do our own repairs, but SAM was around in some form for 30ish years.

    Just because the SAM system was around for that long (in one form or another), i don't think that necessarily means SPIKE will be around that long too. We'll have to check back in 30 years and see!

    What bothers me about the SPIKE system is that they're readily exchanging a working architecture for something that needs to get the kinks worked out, ultimately at the cost of the consumers. I was gung-ho on buying a Ghostbusters premium when it was released, but then i read one horror story after another about people receiving their game and it didn't work right out of the box, or stopped working shortly after unboxing it and playing it for a week or 2.

    The 'ease' of diagnosis when problems arise doesn't seem as painless as they suggest, either. I mean, sure, it's easy to unplug a board and plug a new one in it's place. But what if that doesn't work, as I've seen numerous pinsiders encounter? $300 a pop for a replacement node board is a hard pill to swallow, especially after sinking $5k+ (or as would have been in my case $6500+) into a nib game.

    But i just saw someone recently spent around $4-500 on multiple node boards to fix whatever problem they were having. To me, as someone who really enjoys fixing their own games, that is unacceptable. Especially when you factor in the short warranty they give for these games. Iirc, it's less than a year. The games are flashy and cool, but I'm just not convinced they're gonna age as well as the older generations have.

    #16 2 years ago
    Quoted from KozMckPinball:

    I see that the concern here is if Stern stops supporting SPIKE and we have to do our own repairs, but SAM was around in some form for 30ish years. Jody Dankberg's quoted thoughts from an online article:
    https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/01/catching-up-with-stern-pinball-on-its-new-spike-system-and-wrestlemania-limited-edition/
    "The old system “has a half a mile of wires, one motherboard, and everything is connected through that,” Dankberg told Ars. “It really hasn't changed very much in the last 30 years.”
    The SPIKE system, on the other hand, is more modern and modular. “We've eliminated the CPUs in the back box… on the play field there's a bus system, a series of the little node boards. The intelligence is distributed through the board,” Dankberg continued, adding that all of the lighting on Wrestlemania is LED rather than fluorescent.
    “Pinball is making a comeback,” Dankberg explained, saying that for a lot of people, that half mile of wires can be intimidating. A more modular system like Spike, however, is “easy to repair, easy to diagnose, [it] eliminates time to manufacture, and everything's connected through data cables that are plug in as opposed to [requiring] soldering.”
    Further Reading
    Got bit, fever hit: The Walking Dead pinball shambles into game rooms
    Dankberg also said that because of the new modularity of the SPIKE system, parts will be more readily available and easier to fix. It's also scalable, so Stern plans to use the same boards to power full-color LCD displays, networked machines, diagnostic software, and even NFC systems like Apple Pay and Google Wallet."

    Of course Stern/Jody is going to talk about how great their new system is. I personally find it MUCH easier to diagnose a problem with miles of wire and boards when everything is clearly documented. Node boards are mysteries that you don't bother solving, you just replace them. If you have a game covered under warranty and stern is sending you new boards it is not too big of a problem. If that is not the case it can get expensive fast.

    Stern is building games this way because it is cheaper for them to do so. Look at the wiring in a SAM and you can see straight away how much more time it would take to put a SAM game together as opposed to a SPIKE. Time and materials are money.

    #17 2 years ago
    Quoted from frunch:

    To me, as someone who really enjoys fixing their own games, that is unacceptable.

    Since when, in recent times, has it been an objective of any manufacturer to make consumer electronics easily serviced by the end user? If the product is any more complicated than a throwaway item, this type of design is primarily used to lower assembly time + cost, and only a secondary benefit is that it is easier to diagnose by THEIR OWN service techs. It doesn't matter if it is automobile electronics, a modern television, or a pinball machine. You can say it is unacceptable all you want, it's been headed that way for years - and its here now with a lot of products. You might laugh, but your lucky if there isn't some type of security tape on the interconnects or the cabinet to void the warranty if you attempt to even open your game.

    I work for a major commercial electronics manufacturer, internally we frown upon end users opening our product. When it happens, well - we try to convince them the best we can that they cannot service the box and must send it to us for repair. We are a shade more lenient because our end users are often radio engineers, and because our products are used commercially and not by the general public.

    #18 2 years ago
    Quoted from clg:

    MUCH easier to diagnose a problem with miles of wire and boards when everything is clearly documented.

    Honestly, we were lucky in the past if any service documentation was provided. A lot of what we have now is a product of the pinball community at large...but it is still quite incomplete. I still find roadblocks for a lot of Gottlieb docs since those seem heavily guarded. I even find difficulty finding complete up-to-date docs for a lot of products in current production for our own company. None of these modern pinball companies are obligated to provide service docs in any way, shape or form except for a basic operators manual. I find it, well, actually quite generous that they often provided schematics, parts diagrams, and exploded views in a lot of the basic pinball operators manuals. I had a good deal of complications trying to find parts for both a dishwasher and a lawnmower that I was servicing, if the docs were only half as detailed as my old pinball games it would have been much, much easier to service those items.

    #19 2 years ago
    Quoted from wayout440:

    Since when, in recent times, has it been an objective of any manufacturer to make consumer electronics easily serviced by the end user?

    Quoted from KozMckPinball:

    “Pinball is making a comeback,” Dankberg explained, saying that for a lot of people, that half mile of wires can be intimidating. A more modular system like Spike, however, is “easy to repair, easy to diagnose, [it] eliminates time to manufacture, and everything's connected through data cables that are plug in as opposed to [requiring] soldering.”

    Does that count?

    #20 2 years ago

    Spike allows stern to reduce the overall cost to manufacture a machine (parts, processors, wiring, lighting, power system and labor) while also providing advanced programming functionality in a common software platform for future releases. A new generation of cheaper and faster. The only real downside is it makes it harder for most people to fix broken stuff.

    #21 2 years ago
    Quoted from frunch:

    Does that count?

    No that's just marketing speak for cheaper to manufacture.

    #22 2 years ago
    Quoted from frunch:

    Does that count?

    Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

    No that's just marketing speak for cheaper to manufacture.

    Right - less time consuming to build and less expensive off-the-shelf components such as network cables. As far as the servicing concept - The goal is to quickly identify a module and then replace the module. It's never intended for the modules (nodes) themselves be repaired to the component level in the field or by the end user.

    #23 2 years ago
    Quoted from wayout440:

    Right - less time consuming to build and less expensive off-the-shelf components such as network cables. As far as the servicing concept - The goal is to quickly identify a module and then replace the module. It's never intended for the modules (nodes) themselves be repaired to the component level in the field or by the end user.

    Which is fine, just not what pin heads are used to.

    Say in 5 years from now, Stern comes out with a new system called SPUNK instead of SPIKE. How long does Stern keep making SPIKE node boards. How long did they sell WhiteStar boards?

    People can make a new replacement classic Bally MPU because of the schematics and servicing guides Bally provided. If no detailed info on Spike is available, the future repairability of the games 5-15 years from now is questionable.

    #24 2 years ago

    In order for Spike to remain a viable platform in the future, once Stern moves past this system, the boards will need to be reverse engineered or some sort of work-around solution made so that they can be produced to keep games running. If there ends up being some sort of proprietary chip on the node boards (or CPU for that matter), the future of keeping Spike games running down the road will be in jeopardy.

    After working on someone's GB game with a node 8 board communication failure, it became very apparent that a bad node board can render an entire game non-operational. I know that is true for any platform, but typically about $10 in parts and some soldering can get them back up and running. Replacing entire node boards at $300 a pop is only going to cost more in the future if demand outweighs supply.

    #25 2 years ago
    Quoted from barakandl:

    Which is fine, just not what pin heads are used to.
    Say in 5 years from now, Stern comes out with a new system called SPUNK instead of SPIKE. How long does Stern keep making SPIKE node boards. How long did they sell WhiteStar boards?
    People can make a new replacement classic Bally MPU because of the schematics and servicing guides Bally provided. If no detailed info on Spike is available, the future repairability of the games 5-15 years from now is questionable.

    Such is the way of modern electronics. We've had components and off-the-shelf boards go obsolete during release, in this wonderful golden age of 3-6 month design cycles. One recent exampleL One of our products uses an off the shelf usb wifi module, and there was testing done to determine which specific devices could be declared as approved for use with our products. No problems, until a few months down the road, when we found new modules failing all of a sudden. Upon scraping some security potting, it was found that they changed an IC in the module - but no change in the part number or notification of the change.

    #26 2 years ago

    Reading all this makes me question my decision to buy a SW. I'm not great at fixing boards, and I'm not enthused at the thought of $300+ replacement boards.

    #27 2 years ago

    Remakes and vault editions will be SPIKE right? Will the smart money be on the originals being more desirable?

    #28 2 years ago
    Quoted from QuietEarp:

    Remakes and vault editions will be SPIKE right? Will the smart money be on the originals being more desirable?

    All Vaults so far - IM, SM, AC/DC - have been SAM.

    #29 2 years ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    I currently own 5 SAM games and have previously owned 13 others and never had a single problem with the main boards. I helped a friend fix a bad transistor on a Tron, and it was fine after that. I had a lot of problems with X-Men LE, but that was due to the Aux boards....most SAM games didn't have those.

    I think this question is more for 10-15 years down the road, when we have to fix stuff for ourselves and replacement boards are not available. that's what I think about down the road. I don't even remember if there is schematics with my spike games.

    #30 2 years ago
    Quoted from QuietEarp:

    Remakes and vault editions will be SPIKE right? Will the smart money be on the originals being more desirable?

    Gomez stated that remakes/VEs will use the same board system as the original game.

    #31 2 years ago

    Well never mind then!

    #32 2 years ago
    Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

    No that's just marketing speak for cheaper to manufacture

    Haha, yeah. I guess that's always been the name of the game anyway. The more i think about it, i guess the more easily-repaired boards from previous generations were really just using the cheapest technology that would still get the job done. It just happens that the cheapest technology then was actually built pretty durably, and on a large enough scale that hobbyists can perform their own component-level repairs with a cheap soldering iron and some skills.

    Component-level repair never really was their goal, judging by the troubleshooting guides I've seen in the manuals to my games. Problem with lamp matrix? Check playfield for shorts/bad connections. All good? Replace the board. Game won't boot, and you've got good voltages? Replace the board.

    #33 2 years ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    I think this question is more for 10-15 years down the road, when we have to fix stuff for ourselves and replacement boards are not available. that's what I think about down the road. I don't even remember if there is schematics with my spike games.

    Evolution of technology my friend, just look at past history. Electronics products are built faster, spend shorter and shorter times on the market, and electronics components go obsolete faster and faster. 10-15 years of board availability?...you'll be lucky if you get 5. Hopefully, enough technical data will leak out that will allow a third party to develop a replacement if OEM parts vanish, much like we have Alltek, Rottendog, XPin and others making boards for the older stuff now.

    1268_1289005 (resized).png

    #34 2 years ago
    Quoted from wayout440:

    Evolution of technology my friend, just look at past history. Electronics products are built faster, spend shorter and shorter times on the market, and electronics components go obsolete faster and faster. 10-15 years of board availability?...you'll be lucky if you get 5. Hopefully, enough technical data will leak out that will allow a third party to develop a replacement if OEM parts vanish, much like we have Alltek, Rottendog, XPin and others making boards for the older stuff now.

    I think we can all agree that this is the way technology is moving, it is all disposable. It would be nice to hear some sort of statement from stern about future support for SPIKE boards and if they will make schematics available once they no longer produce a particular board.

    #35 2 years ago

    schematics should be available now. When you bought a machine, you got the schematics for it, so ops could work on it. That's not the case with the new sterns? I never opened a manual for spike so I don't know.

    #36 2 years ago

    This Spike architecture sounds flawed. In a distributed architecture like this, one of the points and benefits if you spread out the processing, is to reduce a single central point of failure. Ideally, if a node went down it should only result in partial failure - the relevant subsection of the game - but the whole should keep operating. That not being the case, suggests a poor design in the software, and what we actually have is a system which is worse than a monolithic design: it has multiple points of failure, all of which render the whole game inoperable. This is a defect in the overall operating system, but it is something that could potentially be addressed by a redesign / update.

    This sounds like what happens when you have a game programmer develop the operating system / architecture.

    It's not surprising the first incarnation of Spike could not support video / LCD as was intended.

    #37 2 years ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    Schematics should be available now. When you bought a machine, you got the schematics for it, so ops could work on it. That's not the case with the new sterns? I never opened a manual for spike so I don't know.

    Yes, you should get full schematics since this is a machine produced for commercial use.

    #38 2 years ago

    Every generation has it's issues, flaws, future repair requirements...
    I've seen repairs needed on both so far,
    it is though to early to tell...

    #39 2 years ago
    Quoted from barakandl:

    Which is fine, just not what pin heads are used to.
    Say in 5 years from now, Stern comes out with a new system called SPUNK instead of SPIKE. How long does Stern keep making SPIKE node boards. How long did they sell WhiteStar boards?
    People can make a new replacement classic Bally MPU because of the schematics and servicing guides Bally provided. If no detailed info on Spike is available, the future repairability of the games 5-15 years from now is questionable.

    well they are on a newer cpu board. But what they can do is split up the game code / os / node board firmware into there own updates or do some thing so after they stop updating an game it will still work node boards that have newer firmware on them.

    #40 2 years ago
    Quoted from HighVoltage:

    This Spike architecture sounds flawed. In a distributed architecture like this, one of the points and benefits if you spread out the processing, is to reduce a single central point of failure. Ideally, if a node went down it should only result in partial failure - the relevant subsection of the game - but the whole should keep operating. That not being the case, suggests a poor design in the software, and what we actually have is a system which is worse than a monolithic design: it has multiple points of failure, all of which render the whole game inoperable. This is a defect in the overall operating system, but it is something that could potentially be addressed by a redesign / update.
    This sounds like what happens when you have a game designer develop the operating system / architecture.
    It's not surprising the first incarnation of Spike could not support video / LCD as was intended.

    Well the way networking / data bus flows though each board it can be like the old bus networking where one bad part can jam up the network same thing with e-net hub. Switches are better but the way stern is wiring them has data in and out of board so anything past it can fail if it goes down.

    Now if they had some kind of switch with each board running a cable to it then one may not take down an full game but that costs more.

    #41 2 years ago

    I bought a Metallica Pro (Sam) and a KISS Pro (Spike) within the last 4 years. With the exception of a broken rubber on Metallica, I've had zero issues with either game.

    #42 2 years ago
    Quoted from Minneapolispin:

    I bought a Metallica Pro (Sam) and a KISS Pro (Spike) within the last 4 years. With the exception of a broken rubber on Metallica, I've had zero issues with either game.

    Do you have your games on route?

    11
    #43 2 years ago

    I don't know of a single operator that would say spike is a better system - it's expensive and when a node goes it's alot of downtime. SAM was a remarkable system, and very cheap to maintain. Spike is a disposable, and difficult to service system. I think as an operator, my days of buying new sterns may be over because of spike. Their long term reliability is in serious question by all the node failures we all see.

    #44 2 years ago
    Quoted from wayout440:

    Evolution of technology my friend, just look at past history

    Your consumer electronics argument only works if each generation is cheaper than the previous. Otherwise built in obsolescence can't be justified. Since spike costs more than Sam the consumer won't continue to buy and will choose alternatives if we were really talking about that. But pinball is too small to actually capture any of those economies so the consumer has more power if they choose to use it. You are suggesting they don't

    #45 2 years ago

    Mod makers beware.
    I am highly unlikely to develop mods for Spike games. There's no way I'm risking sending anyone in there with new wires and the chance of blowing a node board.

    #46 2 years ago
    Quoted from KJL:

    Otherwise built in obsolescence can't be justified.

    I'm not suggesting built in obsolescence. I'm saying that they don't have control over the obsolescence of the components that are used to build assemblies like the nodes. Obsolescence mitigation is a big issue for any electronics company. For example, our engineering is kept very busy trying to keep AVLs (Authorized vendor lists) up to date with parts substitutions. Where we can, we have provided alternate board traces for anticipated package changes. We've had quality issues with OLEDs and LEDs such as subtle variations in color or brightness consistency, which is not such a big deal until you put a crapload of them in a large mixing console and some engineer complains because he can see the difference in a dark studio.

    Quoted from KJL:

    the consumer won't continue to buy

    As far as the money goes, sure - vote with your dollar. I keep hearing all the complaints about all kinds of quality issues with new pins, yet they continue to make them, they continue to sell them, and apparently continue to churn out a profit.

    #47 2 years ago

    SAM was the best board set Stern has done. Solid as a rock. The occasional transistor where the hardest part is waiting for the iron to heat up.

    I've seen way more issues with SPIKE, and the fix quickly becomes get a new board to fix it. In my opinion they built these boards right on the edge of their requirements. That way they go bad much more often, and Stern has a continuing add on sale as they are the only ones that can provide them ($$$).

    But the factory is still pumping at full capacity and it's cheaper for Stern, so SPIKE wins.

    #48 2 years ago

    It sounds like Stern has already advance the board design. Does anyone know is "Spike 2" boards are backwards compatible?

    #49 2 years ago
    Quoted from wayout440:

    A node is a computer science term that you may not be familiar with. It is, in simple terms - a "data point on a network". Your PC, or your cell phone, can be considered as a node of a larger network. In our audio products, we have a number of devices that take on that characteristic and have the term node as a part of their name.

    Or in electrical engineering a node is simply a connection point in an electrical circuit.

    #50 2 years ago
    Quoted from Joe_Blasi:

    Well the way networking / data bus flows though each board it can be like the old bus networking where one bad part can jam up the network same thing with e-net hub.

    If they really hardwired the many-points-of-failure into the system this way, that would be both naive and disappointing... One would hope this bus-level control would at least run independently of application software on a node...

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    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 29.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 999.00
    Flipper Parts
    Mircoplayfields
    $ 200.00
    Lighting - Interactive
    Professor Pinball
    $ 85.00
    $ 89.99
    $ 120.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    $ 65.00
    Cabinet - Armor And Blades
    Texas Pinball
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