(Topic ID: 216251)

Fixing/Reinforcing Stern Cabinets with better Leg Plates - Step By Step


By vireland

1 year ago



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  • 222 posts
  • 54 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 79 days ago by vireland
  • Topic is favorited by 183 Pinsiders

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    There are 222 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 5.
    #151 1 year ago
    Quoted from Zitt:

    Okay boys... don't make me separate you two.
    Vireland is more right here... He has valid point about soft woods and real wood screw pitches.
    hocuslocus is also right; in that Stern uses the same sheet metal screws throughout the game... that in of itself doesn't make it good practice... this about bom management and higher volumes to get better pricing for said screws... not about what is the right thing to do.

    Like you say Stern may use these sheet metal screws on underside of playfield to hold a light socket that isn't moving. But not on cabinet

    #152 1 year ago
    Quoted from hocuslocus:

    Pretty sure they use that type of screw to mount almost everything in the game and some items in the cab.
    I have a lot of those zinc screws I ordered from marco and pinball spare parts, it's the exact same thing. They hold pretty good, and their hex.

    Using those screws for light duty is not right but widely done, I can excuse it. Using those for cab brackets under substantual force. Nope.

    #153 1 year ago
    Quoted from vireland:

    Using those screws for light duty is not right but widely done, I can excuse it. Using those for cab brackets under substantual force. Nope.

    I had a chance today to check my other cabs. they were used from the factory on CGC games both MMR and AFMR. They were also used on my TNA.
    So your saying CGC and spooky were wrong to do so?

    It might be one more thread for the whole half inch screw, I understand why it's important to use different screws for certain applications. I doubt it's going to affect the leg brackets at all though.

    #154 1 year ago
    Quoted from Spiderpin:

    Stern may use these sheet metal screws on underside of playfield to hold a light socket that isn't moving. But not on cabinet

    it's not just stern, it's every manufacture.
    and yes they are used all through out the cabinet.

    #155 1 year ago
    Quoted from hocuslocus:

    I had a chance today to check my other cabs. they were used from the factory on CGC games both MMR and AFMR. They were also used on my TNA.
    So your saying CGC and spooky were wrong to do so?
    It might be one more thread for the whole half inch screw, I understand why it's important to use different screws for certain applications. I doubt it's going to affect the leg brackets at all though.

    CGC and Spooky aren't using cab wood as cheap and soft as Sterns from mid-KISS run forward. But yeah, if they use actual wood screws, it would be better. For them it's not an issue because they haven't moved to ultra-soft, ultra cheap wood on their cabs.

    #156 1 year ago
    Quoted from vireland:

    CGC and Spooky aren't using cab wood as cheap and soft as Sterns from mid-KISS run forward. But yeah, if they use actual wood screws, it would be better. For them it's not an issue because they haven't moved to ultra-soft, ultra cheap wood on their cabs.

    don't think I'm going to change my ways but,
    point taken.

    #157 1 year ago

    I’m surprised Stern hasn’t dumped “expensive” screws all together and figured out a way to gun nail everything...

    #158 1 year ago
    Quoted from Billy16:

    I’m surprised Stern hasn’t dumped “expensive” screws all together and figured out a way to gun nail everything...

    Erase that post before you give them the idea.

    #159 1 year ago
    Quoted from vireland:

    Erase that post before you give them the idea.

    I think I’ll grab my Senco and a case of Chinese brads, fly to Chi-Town and show Stern how to really save on some BOM...

    #160 1 year ago

    In case anyone is wondering, Stern is using new corner brackets at the top of the corner on DP. They look really nice!

    #161 1 year ago
    Quoted from BrewNinja:

    In case anyone is wondering, Stern is using new corner brackets at the top of the corner on DP. They look really nice!

    Picture please...

    #162 1 year ago

    No post yet of the new brackets. Must be installing them now.

    #163 1 year ago

    My more recently built SW premium and GotG pro have those new black upper corner triangle brackets from the factory as well.

    I still swapped out the leg plates when I set them up.

    #164 1 year ago

    I don't own a DP, but I was playing one at the local bar and the owner lifted up the playfield and I was like, wait, those are new. Didn't get a chance to snap a pic. Figured there would be a DP owner who would post one up.

    1 week later
    #165 1 year ago

    If I have a cabniet that has started to seperate ( different game) do I need to apply glue in the separation along with the upgraded brackets?

    #166 1 year ago
    Quoted from mollyspub:

    If I have a cabniet that has started to seperate ( different game) do I need to apply glue in the separation along with the upgraded brackets?

    I would, and also get a couple large clamps to hold the top and bottom tight while the glue dries.

    1 week later
    #167 1 year ago

    Just got my Maiden premium and it has these factory installed wing brackets. I did notice they aren't as tall as the B/W ones, will these factory brackets suffice or swap over to the B/W ones anyway? I'm also going to swap over the outer leg stand offs for the Mantis hidden type.

    DSC03823 (resized).JPG

    #168 1 year ago
    Quoted from Mancave:

    Just got my Maiden premium and it has these factory installed wing brackets. I did notice they aren't as tall as the B/W ones, will these factory brackets suffice or swap over to the B/W ones anyway? I'm also going to swap over the outer leg stand offs for the Mantis hidden type.
    [quoted image]

    Two less screws in the plate/cab and less surface area with this design, but I would think these are probably okay until someone reports otherwise. If you start to see any corner cracks, definitely report back.

    #169 1 year ago
    Quoted from Mancave:

    Just got my Maiden premium and it has these factory installed wing brackets. I did notice they aren't as tall as the B/W ones, will these factory brackets suffice or swap over to the B/W ones anyway? I'm also going to swap over the outer leg stand offs for the Mantis hidden type.
    [quoted image]

    Looks like the leg bolts need to be longer. Just saying.

    #170 1 year ago
    Quoted from Spiderpin:

    Looks like the leg bolts need to be longer. Just saying.

    Haha! Good eye! Are there leg bolts IN those holes? I thought they weren't installed! If they ARE, then they DEFINITELY should have longer leg bolts or that plate is doing no good.

    I wonder if Stern just slapped that corner bracket over the crappy rectangular leg plate that's usually there?

    Ok, Mancave, your assignment is to rest the pin on a stool or pin dolly and remove that corner bracket to see what Stern's actually done, and take a picture without the corner bracket.

    deputy-badge-pinside (resized).jpg

    #171 1 year ago
    Quoted from Spiderpin:

    Looks like the leg bolts need to be longer. Just saying.

    Picture taken with the bolts removed

    #172 1 year ago
    Quoted from Mancave:

    Picture taken with the bolts removed

    Ok good to know.

    #173 1 year ago
    Quoted from Mancave:

    Picture taken with the bolts removed

    Whew! My mind was really racing there for a minute...

    #174 1 year ago
    Quoted from vireland:

    I wonder if Stern just slapped that corner bracket over the crappy rectangular leg plate that's usually there?

    Ok, Mancave, your assignment is to rest the pin on a stool or pin dolly and remove that corner bracket to see what Stern's actually done, and take a picture without the corner bracket.

    I didn't take the bracket off, already had everything set up when i read your reply but you can definitely tell there is nothing sitting behind the bracket, it's sitting perfectly flush to the wood. Mantis protectors went on really easily and all seems great with the machine so far, both plungers are good, all switches registering and rock'n to some Irons tunes whilst smacking the silver ball around. Life is good

    #175 1 year ago
    Quoted from Mancave:

    I didn't take the bracket off, already had everything set up when i read your reply but you can definitely tell there is nothing sitting behind the bracket, it's sitting perfectly flush to the wood. Mantis protectors went on really easily and all seems great with the machine so far, both plungers are good, all switches registering and rock'n to some Irons tunes whilst smacking the silver ball around. Life is good

    Yeah, once you confirmed that there were no leg bolts installed in that pic, my blood pressure dropped back to the point before Spiderpin got me ramped up.

    1 month later
    #176 1 year ago

    *** (Suggested) Addendum ***

    It isn’t my intention to steal the OP’s thunder here, but my own experience installing these braces was different enough that I thought I would add to this tread. God knows I have benefited from countless tutorials made/posted by other Pinsiders, so why not take this chance to contribute something of my own? I don’t know how to post all the photos I have in proper tutorial form, interspersed with copy, so I will just break up my tutorial into discrete posts, each with a photo.

    * Bally/Williams brackets from Pinball Life - https://www.pinballlife.com/williamsbally-new-style-leg-bracket.html

    * 2018 MET Pro

    I discovered right away that these braces are NOT plug-n-play. When installed using the leg bolts alone, there are significant gaps between the braces and the cabinet walls.

    Corner.Brace.gap (resized).jpg
    #177 1 year ago

    Your braces will do you little good without direct contact with your cabinet on both sides, so it may be necessary to fashion shims. The braces are far too rigid to flex and meet the walls when you install your screws. You may have varying gaps from one side to the other, necessitating stacking of your shims or the use of two different gauges of shims. I cut mine from two gauges of aluminum sheet using either tin snips or a hacksaw. This, when combined with stacking, gave me the greatest variability of shim thickness – which I found necessary.

    Corner.Brace.shim.thickness (resized).jpgCorner.Brace.tools.supplies (resized).jpg

    #178 1 year ago

    Cut your shims to have dimensions that match the drilled “flaps” of the brace, then use duct tape to secure them along the long edge to the brace.

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    #179 1 year ago

    This will make it easier to keep them in position as you place the “sandwich” of your shim and the brace in your vice for drilling. Take care to load them in your vice so that the hole you intend to drill (in the shim) is as close to the vice as possible, as you will need the support when pressing hard during your drilling. Remember, you are using the hole that exists in the brace as the guide for your drill, so choose a cobalt bit that matches that diameter. Drill each of the three holes, one after the next, repositioning your sandwich in the vice each time. Then remove the brace/shim sandwich, flip it around, and do the other shim in the same manner. If you have a brace that requires two shims on a single side, you will have to repeat the process for the second shim, unless you can stack them and drill them together.

    Corner.Brace.drilling (resized).jpg
    #180 1 year ago

    Install the brace in position using the leg bolts (with leg) and torque down the bolts. Then tuck your shims into position.

    Corner.Brace.shims.in.place (resized).jpg
    #181 1 year ago

    Crap! I'd never get this done
    Maybe I'll just get the stern version
    If this is the case with mine.

    #182 1 year ago

    Now use the brace holes as your drill guide to drill the pilot holes in your cabinet wall. Be sure to check depth of your drill bit (with tape stop installed) against the upper edge of cabinet wall. Remember to add the wall thickness of both the shim and brace to your depth calculation. The top edge of the coin door wall of your cabinet is a handy spot for this. Now drill three holes ON ONE SIDE ONLY and install your #10 x 3/4” screws. Then drill the opposite three holes and install the screws there. Repeat all the preceding steps on the remaining three brackets.

    Corner.Brace.pilot.hole.measuring (resized).jpgCorner.Brace.drilling.cab (resized).jpg
    #183 1 year ago
    Quoted from Jason_Jehosaphat:

    Install the brace in position using the leg bolts (with leg) and torque down the bolts. Then tuck your shims into position.
    [quoted image]

    You must be an engineer, because you over though and messed up. 6 wood screw will pull brackets flush with cabinet.

    #184 1 year ago

    Rear/right brace requires one additional step: you must cut a notch in the power cord cup. You will have removed the cup before installing the brace to give yourself the room for the job. You will have discovered it tethered to your game by way of the power cord and not really removable to be worked on. Still, your cord is long enough that you can walk the cup to your bench (if your game is nearby, as mine was) and do your work there. I used a finish carpentry saw for this job, but a coping saw would do, or certainly a Dremel tool. Your aim here is to remove whatever portion of the cup is now displaced by the freshly installed brace. It doesn’t take much, but it has to be cut away for the cup to be remounted flush.

    Corner.Brace.cord.cone.tethered (resized).jpgCorner.Brace.notched.cord.cone (resized).jpg
    #185 1 year ago

    Now return the cup to its position and – hopefully – you are finished installing your corner braces.

    Corner.Brace.finished (resized).jpg
    #186 1 year ago
    Quoted from Jason_Jehosaphat:

    Now return the cup to its position and – hopefully – you are finished installing your corner braces.
    [quoted image]

    Ha! The back is a lot more dicey, for sure. I usually do them, but probably overkill. The fronts are most of the issues with splitting.

    #187 1 year ago
    Quoted from Spiderpin:

    You must be an engineer, because you over though and messed up. 6 wood screw will pull brackets flush with cabinet.

    A good point, and you might well be right regarding braces from sources other than Pinball life. But the braces I got are made from such thick steel plate that they are effectively rigid. If you expect to overcome gaps simply be torqueing your screws, the only thing that will flex to make the connection is your cabinet. And how do I know this? Because I tried to install my first brace without the shims, hoping the bracket would flex to meet the cabinet walls. It did not. I was dismayed by this reality, but rather than complain to Stern/Pinball Life I spent a couple of more hours addressing the problem with shims to ensure a smart install. I try not to “mess up” and throw away my time on senseless additional work, believe it or not. And no, I’m not an engineer.

    #188 1 year ago

    I only did the fronts on my machines, TSPP and Star Wars Prem, and did notice a small gap where stated. It closed up nice and tight when the screws were installed. I tightened up the leg bolts first.

    #189 1 year ago
    Quoted from D-Gottlieb:

    I only did the fronts on my machines, TSPP and Star Wars Prem, and did notice a small gap where stated. It closed up nice and tight when the screws were installed. I tightened up the leg bolts first.

    I did the same as you, had small gap at first. Purchase mine from PinballLife too.

    #190 1 year ago

    Agreed. No issues with he gap closing up.

    #191 1 year ago
    Quoted from vireland:

    Ha! The back is a lot more dicey, for sure. I usually do them, but probably overkill. The fronts are most of the issues with splitting.

    I didn't find the back more dicey on a SPIKE game that doesn't have the plug going out the back there. I found the back much easier.

    #192 1 year ago
    Quoted from Sinestro:

    I didn't find the back more dicey on a SPIKE game that doesn't have the plug going out the back there. I found the back much easier.

    Haha! On a spike game there's almost nothing IN the cabinet! But yeah, you're only having issues with Sam and before, and if you have one of those made pre-spike, reinforcing the cab in back is probably overkill since the cabinet wood was much better.

    #193 1 year ago
    Quoted from Jason_Jehosaphat:

    A good point, and you might well be right regarding braces from sources other than Pinball life. But the braces I got are made from such thick steel plate that they are effectively rigid. If you expect to overcome gaps simply be torqueing your screws, the only thing that will flex to make the connection is your cabinet. And how do I know this? Because I tried to install my first brace without the shims, hoping the bracket would flex to meet the cabinet walls. It did not. I was dismayed by this reality, but rather than complain to Stern/Pinball Life I spent a couple of more hours addressing the problem with shims to ensure a smart install. I try not to “mess up” and throw away my time on senseless additional work, believe it or not. And no, I’m not an engineer.

    This is pretty obvious that this gentleman has different brackets than what you guys are dealing with. Or the cabinet dimensions are different . If he took a bolt and a nut with a hole through the cabinet and tried to suck that bracket back to the wood he be pulling the wood and cracking it or be pulling that bolt right through the wood. Especially with everybody commenting on the crappy quality of the wood. There is no way a wood screw, I don't care what kind it is is going to pull that steal back, it's too rigid . His fix for that bracket is what exactly should have been done. I deal with mechanical things in my profession and I'm no engineer but that's pretty much a no-brainer as far as what he's up against. He resolved it properly and looks like a much stronger bracket then want you guys are using. Not that that's needed.

    #194 1 year ago
    Quoted from JCNP:

    This is pretty obvious that this gentleman has different brackets than what you guys are dealing with. Or the cabinet dimensions are different . If he took a bolt and a nut with a hole through the cabinet and tried to suck that bracket back to the wood he be pulling the wood and cracking it or be pulling that bolt right through the wood. Especially with everybody commenting on the crappy quality of the wood. There is no way a wood screw, I don't care what kind it is is going to pull that steal back, it's too rigid . His fix for that bracket is what exactly should have been done. I deal with mechanical things in my profession and I'm no engineer but that's pretty much a no-brainer as far as what he's up against. He resolved it properly and looks like a much stronger bracket then want you guys are using. Not that that's needed.

    Post #18 and your wrong. I bought the same brackets from PinballLife 24 at a time (shipping reasons). The gap was from the ground strap. So maybe it crushed in to the balsa wood.
    Aka Cabinet

    4 months later
    #195 1 year ago

    Bump

    1 month later
    #196 10 months ago

    Thinking about bracing the legs on a couple of newer Stern's in the lineup before issues pop up.

    I just noticed Pinball Life has some leg brackets that fit Stern pins. I e-mailed Margaret to see if these fit the late model Stern's

    Looks like they might since they have the 3 screws holes in the center section.
    pasted_image (resized).png

    Update: Pinball Life confirmed these are for the newer Stern pins to address the splitting issue.

    #197 10 months ago
    Quoted from mbwalker:

    Thinking about bracing the legs on a couple of newer Stern's in the lineup before issues pop up.
    I just noticed Pinball Life has some leg brackets that fit Stern pins. I e-mailed Margaret to see if these fit the late model Stern's
    Looks like they might since they have the 3 screws holes in the center section.
    [quoted image]
    Update: Pinball Life confirmed these are for the newer Stern pins to address the splitting issue.

    From Pinball Life. I buy 24 at a time and save, or do I haha

    Product ID: 01-11400-1
    Williams/Bally New Style Leg Bracket

    #198 10 months ago
    Quoted from Spiderpin:

    From Pinball Life. I buy 24 at a time and save, or do I haha
    Product ID: 01-11400-1
    Williams/Bally New Style Leg Bracket

    If you have a Stern, make sure you order the the part number in my post. Not the Williams/Bally.

    E-mail from Pinball Life: "We made this for the cabinet splitting issues. This will work for your newer Stern game. The Williams bracket is not wide enough to fit the Stern cabinets properly."

    3 months later
    #199 6 months ago
    Quoted from mbwalker:

    Thinking about bracing the legs on a couple of newer Stern's in the lineup before issues pop up.
    I just noticed Pinball Life has some leg brackets that fit Stern pins. I e-mailed Margaret to see if these fit the late model Stern's
    Looks like they might since they have the 3 screws holes in the center section.
    [quoted image]
    Update: Pinball Life confirmed these are for the newer Stern pins to address the splitting issue.

    My T3 machine back legs screws isn't tight. Two screw is moving in the hole. If I replace the leg bracket this will be good?
    Thanks

    7680bfd80d669168cc775389b408f3efbe4e1dd0 (resized).png
    #200 6 months ago
    Quoted from ZfromEarth:

    My T3 machine back legs screws isn't tight. Two screw is moving in the hole. If I replace the leg bracket this will be good?
    Thanks[quoted image]

    Just make sure it's the right one. Check to make sure the cabinet is good (no splitting) too. Pinball Life can double check the part number for you.

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