(Topic ID: 305657)

Refused delivery on our first pin

By Maxforwardspeed

2 years ago


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  • 121 posts
  • 66 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by EricHadley
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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    12
    #1 2 years ago

    Hello pinside, first post! Being completely new to the world of pinball, I'm not feeling too good about our current situation, and an looking for some advice. We just had an attempted delivery today for our Jurassic Park home pin, but the box had a significant hole in the side of it. The distributor was very clear to refuse delivery for any signs of damage to the box, and I took them up on that. As far as I could see, there wasn't any obvious damage through that hole in the box, but I didn't feel comfortable getting an unwelcome surprise upon complete unboxing. The distributor said they'll open and inspect thoroughly for damage then repack and send it back again if all is well, or let me come pick it up (if I'm up for the 5 hour round-trip drive).

    My question is whether or not that is the typical process in this type of situation? At this point am I getting more of an "open-box" item, rather than new in box? I was hoping to not be in this situation for our first pin, but now I'm not sure what I should ask for or expect next. Thanks!

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    #2 2 years ago

    When my new Tron LE arrived in 2011 destroyed, and I mean dropped off a cliff, plastic wrapped wood shards taped back together and box was gone from Stern, we submittted pics to Stern and they handled the rest. Contacted your distributor also. That’s really all you can do.

    #3 2 years ago

    You were right to refuse it. I would be asking distributor to send you a new one regardless of what they find when they open that box up. You should receive a new unopened and unbroken box. Anything less would be unacceptable to me.

    #4 2 years ago

    I’ve had situations like this with other companies, and opened the box while the driver waited - in only 1 case was there damage, even with a hole just like that. With a Stern, I’d refuse it just like you did. Hope you get the replacement soon

    #5 2 years ago

    You'll get a functioning pin that you will be first one to play. You'll get no extra discount. Good call on refusing shipment.

    -4
    #6 2 years ago

    But you can't expect distributor to pay for shipping twice, that's not on him. I'd go pick it up, and if it's your first pin, you might want them to set up and test for you. Might save you from more headaches . Good luck!!

    28
    #7 2 years ago
    Quoted from Hayfarmer:

    But you can't expect distributor to pay for shipping twice, that's not on him. I'd go pick it up, and if it's your first pin, you might want them to set up and test for you. Might save you from more headaches . Good luck!!

    Whilst I agree the distributor shouldn't have to pay twice, neither should the buyer, the shipping company is at fault and should form part of whatever shipping insurance coverage is associated with the transaction. Assuming that was part of the shipping fee.

    #8 2 years ago
    Quoted from Pinballer73:

    Whilst I agree the distributor shouldn't have to pay twice, neither should the buyer, the shipping company is at fault and should form part of whatever shipping insurance coverage is associated with the transaction. Assuming that was part of the shipping fee.

    Exactly.

    31
    #9 2 years ago

    Certainly in your right to refuse. I’m confused in this situation though — you don’t have to keep it if you take a picture then just rip open that area real quick to check for damage— and find damage— do you?

    It’s a little crazy to me to refuse something if there’s a good chance that nothing is even wrong with it. You should be able to inspect the damaged area with shipper there and then accept or refuse based on what you see. Seems in everyone’s best interest, but maybe it just doesn’t go down like that usually?

    #10 2 years ago
    Quoted from Hayfarmer:

    But you can't expect distributor to pay for shipping twice, that's not on him. I'd go pick it up, and if it's your first pin, you might want them to set up and test for you. Might save you from more headaches . Good luck!!

    yeah, isn't there insurance on this? Seems like if it was refused due to damage, then the shipping company should be covering the cost to ship a new one.

    17
    #11 2 years ago
    Quoted from Maxforwardspeed:

    Hello pinside, first post! Being completely new to the world of pinball, I'm not feeling too good about our current situation, and an looking for some advice. We just had an attempted delivery today for our Jurassic Park home pin, but the box had a significant hole in the side of it. The distributor was very clear to refuse delivery for any signs of damage to the box, and I took them up on that.

    I would have taken some pictures around the whole box, then looked in the hole and if it seemed ok, then unpacked it while the driver was there. If it looked good, just note "box damaged, possible concealed damage" on the receipt and called it good. I've had some that looked worse than this that were fine.

    #12 2 years ago
    Quoted from Maxforwardspeed:

    Hello pinside, first post! Being completely new to the world of pinball, I'm not feeling too good about our current situation, and an looking for some advice. We just had an attempted delivery today for our Jurassic Park home pin, but the box had a significant hole in the side of it. The distributor was very clear to refuse delivery for any signs of damage to the box, and I took them up on that. As far as I could see, there wasn't any obvious damage through that hole in the box, but I didn't feel comfortable getting an unwelcome surprise upon complete unboxing. The distributor said they'll open and inspect thoroughly for damage then repack and send it back again if all is well, or let me come pick it up (if I'm up for the 5 hour round-trip drive).
    My question is whether or not that is the typical process in this type of situation? At this point am I getting more of an "open-box" item, rather than new in box? I was hoping to not be in this situation for our first pin, but now I'm not sure what I should ask for or expect next. Thanks!
    [quoted image]

    Looks like it had a little damage first, But if you look closer, It looks like someone cut the rest with a knife.

    #13 2 years ago

    You don't play the box .Like Brtlkat noted looks like knife opening would have allowed you to look thru to inspect . Its gone back anyway so looking at going forward advise seems your ask .

    Since you are new owner I would let the distributor open box , setup and ensure all is well. Unlikely damage induced issue .But if a issue occured better to have them fix rather than you . Lots posts concerning frustration having new game sitting dysfunctional

    I would go get the game when ready . 5 hour ride just part of peace mind . If you drive past a more local distributor in your trip maybe reconsider shopping local worthwhile . No intent sarcasm on shopping local . See lots posts people getting a " deal " then needing help.

    If you want a fresh start on this title may take awhile to get a replacment .

    Enjoy your new title and have great day . Shane

    PS pull the balls if you go and get the game from the distributor.

    -5
    #14 2 years ago

    Yeah...you shoulda unboxed it while the driver was there and looked for damage. That box damage looks pretty inconsequential. I'm all for protecting yourself but it's a little snowflaky to expect the world to be perfect all the time.

    #15 2 years ago

    I've had a lot a of NIB games arrive with minor damage to the box (for me I'd say it is >50% of the time) but no damage to the game. You can unbox and inspect with the delivery person there and also note that the packaging was damaged and there could be concealed damage. I'd also discuss any potential issues with the distributor before signing or refusing and get their advice. Refusing the game is always an option but in the current market it might take months to get another one.

    #16 2 years ago

    I’m sorry that your first NIB arrived that way and you had to ship it back. That was probably really disappointing. I’m also a type A personality and expect NIB’s to be perfect.

    What I have learned over my last purchase, even when the box is in pristine condition, you can still end up having issues. My TMNT box and machine looked fine upon arrival but still required parts to have it fully functioning 100% out of the box.

    Sounds like your distributor is working with you to resolve the issue. Just stay polite and firm in what you want. If it were me and they were willing to take it back, open and setup and test to verify the condition and everything on it is fine before re-delivery, I’d probably be ok with it.

    #17 2 years ago

    Man Ive accepted worse then that. Thats a scratch hehe.

    But first pin? Hell no!

    #18 2 years ago

    Welcome to the world of pinball and pinside, it's unlike any other consumer purchase you will ever make.
    I probably would of accepted that shipment and marked on the BOL that box was damaged and contents may be damage so you could make a claim with the freight company if required.

    Also, FYI - people in this forum are great and very willing to help you solve any issues that arrive once you get it home.

    10
    #19 2 years ago

    I would have peeked inside the hole and if no damage visible I would tell the driver I am opening for more inspection and if he’s good with that then i open and check for damage. If all good I keep it. I’ve had games with box holes from time to time and they are usually ok. Not always, but usually.

    #20 2 years ago

    That's a bummer on your first NIB. My Metallica showed in a similar condition, but I had already received several NIB by that point and gave it a good look and accepted it when there was no damage found. I paid a little extra on my incoming Stranger Things for them to transfer the game to a larger pallet and to have full cost insurance. This way, the game will be in the middle of a larger surface with space around it, so less chance of a fork poking a hole in it. I'm sure they will take care of you, either way. I played that JP PIN last weekend. Fun game.

    #21 2 years ago

    People on this forum is ruining pinball in a lot of circumstances. If the machine is fine, why do we care that there's a hole in the packaging? These are turning into daily threads. It's a 350 lb item, the packaging gets damaged in transit. As long as the machine is fine who cares. The packaging ends up at the recycler, not the machine.

    #22 2 years ago

    You did the right thing.

    Stern usually drop ships to me via fedex freight.

    A couple of times I've received a pin with a tear or hole in the box and luckily my driver is great and will wait for me to open the box to check for damage (he usually encourages me to even when they look intact)

    Either way, I think a 5 hr drive would be worth it instead of risking another shipping disaster. And like others have said, I would have your distributor setup the machine and run it to make sure everything works as planned.

    I received my new Godzilla pin a month ago, it only ran for 5 mins and would crash. I'm still waiting for a replacement cpu node from Stern.

    #23 2 years ago
    Quoted from EricHadley:

    I would have peeked inside the hole and if no damage visible I would tell the driver I am opening for more inspection and if he’s good with that then i open and check for damage. If all good I keep it. I’ve had games with box holes from time to time and they are usually ok. Not always, but usually.

    From the looks of the knife cut, I am quite sure the box was inspected for internal damage by a carrier station manager, and then put back into forwarding when no damage to the product was seen in the inspection hole. With NIB pinball machines becoming harder to find due to manufacturing problems, I would do the same visual inspection through the same cutout, and then simply note on the bill "possible damage", which establishes documentary evidence of an issue for future claim if needed.

    -1
    #24 2 years ago
    Quoted from Markharris2000:

    From the looks of the knife cut, I am quite sure the box was inspected for internal damage by a carrier station manager, and then put back into forwarding when no damage to the product was seen in the inspection hole. With NIB pinball machines becoming harder to find due to manufacturing problems, I would do the same visual inspection through the same cutout, and then simply note on the bill "possible damage", which establishes documentary evidence of an issue for future claim if needed.

    Yep..would have done exactly this, who knows when you’ll see that NIB game again.
    Likely cycled to the back of the order line and someone else will get to enjoy that one!

    #25 2 years ago

    OP was totally right here. Many of the replies are from years of experience. OP clearly states he’s new to all this. He may not know what to look for regarding damage through a small cut hole. What if the damage was behind some plastic or styrofoam or what if the point of impact caused damage elsewhere?

    To boot, these Home versions of Sterns have lesser builds. Different cabinet materials and construction. They don’t even use metal side armor for the PF glass. Plastic lockbar. BG held on by a flimsy plastic thing with 2 small screws. That impact could’ve done damage elsewhere. OP not knowing WTF was going on chose the correct route - the safe route. Hoping it gets resolved properly.

    #26 2 years ago
    Quoted from Yoko2una:

    what to look for regarding damage through a small cut hole. What if the damage was behind some plastic or styrofoam or what if the point of impact caused damage elsewhere?

    EHoH a few months ago

    17
    #27 2 years ago
    Quoted from twenty84:

    I've had a lot a of NIB games arrive with minor damage to the box (for me I'd say it is >50% of the time) but no damage to the game. You can unbox and inspect with the delivery person there and also note that the packaging was damaged and there could be concealed damage. I'd also discuss any potential issues with the distributor before signing or refusing and get their advice. Refusing the game is always an option but in the current market it might take months to get another one.

    Thanks everyone. So in the moment I felt very time pressured to make a quick decision. The driver was running 2 hours late and that didn't help the situation. But after seeing the comments here it sounds like I should have insisted on unpacking it completely while he was there. I was on the phone with the distributor during the delivery and he was very adamant on refusing it based on the photo. Mentioned that often times you won't see damage through the hole until you go to setup the game and find out it's not square or something is uneven as a result, thereby creating more of a headache. When they get it back I'll ask about setting it up/testing though. That sounds like a good idea. Although, I was kind of excited to do my first pin unboxing myself, hah.

    #28 2 years ago

    Looks like a forklift puncture. I'd have checked if the cabinet looked damaged in that spot... but for a first game not sure I'd have the guts to risk anything being overlooked

    #29 2 years ago
    Quoted from Yoxxy:

    People on this forum is ruining pinball in a lot of circumstances. If the machine is fine, why do we care that there's a hole in the packaging? These are turning into daily threads. It's a 350 lb item, the packaging gets damaged in transit. As long as the machine is fine who cares. The packaging ends up at the recycler, not the machine.

    The problem is that a first time owner isn't always able to tell if something is wrong upon first inspection. If you're experienced sure, but not a first time buyer.

    #30 2 years ago
    Quoted from Maxforwardspeed:

    Thanks everyone. So in the moment I felt very time pressured to make a quick decision. The driver was running 2 hours late and that didn't help the situation. But after seeing the comments here it sounds like I should have insisted on unpacking it completely while he was there. I was on the phone with the distributor during the delivery and he was very adamant on refusing it based on the photo. Mentioned that often times you won't see damage through the hole until you go to setup the game and find out it's not square or something is uneven as a result, thereby creating more of a headache. When they get it back I'll ask about setting it up/testing though. That sounds like a good idea. Although, I was kind of excited to do my first pin unboxing myself, hah.

    You did the right thing. You have to remember that this is the internet and everyone is an expert and has 20/20 hindsight vision. I would have sent it back as well if the distro was telling me to. This is just a small bump in life that will likely work out just fine in the end. Its not like some of the true horror stories that pop up on here. Live long and prosper!

    16
    #31 2 years ago

    As a first time buyer - there should have been a conversation about what to do if this happens between you and your distributor - either you asking or them telling you. It's a shame as this game where that hole is probably has zero damage to it and a bigger mess is now created - dealing with shipping companies is not easy.

    We send this to every single customer every single game we ship before it ships so people are educated : The first part is new given how awful things are at them moment with shipping the 2nd part is my usual instructions... My customers will tell you doesn't matter how many games they buy from me if they buy 5 they get this email 5 times as i feel it's very important to be on your toes.

    This is our email regarding shipping - hope it helps someone else even if you aren't a PinballSTAR customer :

    Hello everyone - good news games will be shipping to our customers this week and next week. I will note we have also been having issues with just about every trucking company where they have been dropping games off without calling for an appointment the day prior regardless of us requesting an appointment call. This has never happened before and it's all across the country and all different carriers. The trucking industry is a mess right now - not enough trucks, not enough drivers, the terminals are backlogged etc... Some trucking companies have eliminated doing runs to certain cities due to truck capacity issues and terminal log jams etc... I'm just giving everyone a heads up - Once we ship we really don't have control over some of those things from the factory to you. If you have any issues just let me know and I'll do the best I can to resolve them. We aren't seeing damage issues - just really poor service across the board as the whole system is stressed. We try to only use the better carriers but even they are dropping the ball. Below are is our usual delivery acceptance instructions aside from this commentary on the way things are now... Please reply to this email with an 'I'm ready' so we know you are good to go - we will not ship without this confirmation from you. Please be patient as trucking is extremely slow at this time... not uncommon for routes that took 3-5 days to now be 7 days... West Coast can be 7-10 days.

    FYI - I have had a recent small run of shipping damage issues - carefully check the box for damage / holes / major crushing, etc... I would even suggest if there is not damage to the box - OPEN THE BOX up and inspect the game to whatever extent you feel necessary to taking it all the way out and making sure it's ok BEFORE you sign and accept it. I've had a few concealed damage issues lately where there is no damage to the box but where the game is damaged - from small scuffs / cosmetic, to backboxes damages, pf glass broken, siderails smashed, etc.. from a drop off a forklift or a tip over... who knows... Once you sign for it you are on your own and the game is yours as is - I am unable to help in any way past that point... If you aren't satisfied with something - DO NOT SIGN and REFUSE to accept it - send it back.. or try to call me 570-357-0042. The driver is not going anywhere until you sign for it - he'll wait... That said, the issues are in the minority, but I just want you properly prepared.

    #32 2 years ago

    Certainly not in the wrong to refuse. And true, being first pin I’d probably have done the same especially if my distro was on the phone saying refuse. But, these days I just inspect and keep if ok, cause I am anxious and I want the game. Lol. But you certainly did the right thing, there is more than one way to handle this and what you did is certainly one of them.

    #33 2 years ago
    Quoted from PinballSTAR:

    As a first time buyer - there should have been a conversation about what to do if this happens between you and your distributor - either you asking or them telling you. It's a shame as this game where that hole is probably has zero damage to it and a bigger mess is now created - dealing with shipping companies is not easy.

    Quoted from Maxforwardspeed:

    I was on the phone with the distributor during the delivery and he was very adamant on refusing it based on the photo.

    #34 2 years ago

    I hadn't seen that part - so all good then everyone was communicating as they should have been... I will say from my experience that lower area tends to not cause damage and usually we'll ask to stick a flashlight in and look around a bit and usually if no damage seen the game will be ok... Of course you never know. Good luck with it - hopefully it's fine when it gets back and it's just a reship situation for everyone ! Enjoy your first NIB !

    #35 2 years ago

    Being your first NIB, I say you did the right thing. After having a few delivered now and a good relationship with my distributor, I will make the driver wait while I inspect before signing if I see any through the box damage or signs of a drop. So far, out of 3 that have come with a gaping hole in the box, none have been damaged.

    #36 2 years ago

    Stern's corrugated supplier could easily supply( at a cost of course), multiple layers of reinfoced/accordian layers around the bottom 1/4 of the box to help prevent, at least the more minor, forklift damage

    #37 2 years ago

    Odds are the game is fine. I would have just peeled that cardboard back and looked for damage before I refused it.

    19
    #38 2 years ago
    Quoted from woody76:

    Odds are the game is fine. I would have just peeled that cardboard back and looked for damage before I refused it.

    He followed the distributors instruction which in my mind ends the matter.

    #39 2 years ago
    Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:

    o less chance of a fork poking a hole in it.

    Yeah, thats what it looked like to me, a fork from a lift went in.People who have opened new pins, what part of the pin is directly behind this area?

    #40 2 years ago

    You’d be surprised at how badly damaged a box can be and how unaffected the contents will be. They box and pack the games to protect them, that’s what the packing is for.

    I recommend taking pics before the box comes off the truck, then check out the contents of the box where the damage is while the driver waits. Then ensure it’s annotated on the paperwork. I don’t care how pushy the driver gets or how much of a rush they’re in. Most of the damage comes from driver anyway as they are the ones who are moving other pallets and boxes around. I always seem to be the last delivery so my package has been moved, bumped and scuffed several times.

    If you plan on getting more pins via shipping, I’d recommend developing a good relationship with the driver and don’t forget to tip. Your items will likely be treated better in the future.

    Nothing was wrong with the contents of the box in attached pic, but it does look seriously damaged.

    7EA9D428-20B0-45A3-9ADC-A93DACCFAE1D (resized).jpeg7EA9D428-20B0-45A3-9ADC-A93DACCFAE1D (resized).jpeg
    -20
    #41 2 years ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    He followed the distributors instruction which in my mind ends the matter.

    LOL, alrighty there [Removed]. I don't care either way as he is the one who will have to wait another month to play his game. Everyone of my NIB games have shown up with something similar or worse and ALL where fine. Just takes about a 25 second inspection. I am not saying his did NOT have any damage, but odds are it was fine.

    #42 2 years ago

    Given it was your first game, you absolutely did the right thing by following the distro’s advice and sending it back.

    The remedies they are offering sound perfectly reasonable to me. Them opening, inspecting, and reboxing the game should enhance your peace of mind, not be a source of stress that you have paid full price for an “open box” item; in this case your “open box” pin is actually BETTER than a factory-sealed unit because it has received an extra layer of QC. Someone above pointed out that pinball is unlike any other “consumer” purchase, and this is a good example; avoid conflating an “open box” pinball machine with an “open box” laptop at Best Buy!

    Someone with more experience might inspect more closely for damage and keep the game if none is found, but there’s always the slight risk that the impact which damaged the box could have also caused concealed damage somewhere in the game. No shame in erring on the side of caution, especially when the seller is encouraging this approach.

    19
    #43 2 years ago
    Quoted from woody76:

    LOL, alrighty there pecker. I don't care either way as he is the one who will have to wait another month to play his game. Everyone of my NIB games have shown up with something similar or worse and ALL where fine. Just takes about a 25 second inspection. I am not saying his did NOT have any damage, but odds are it was fine.

    1) I deal with shippers all the time, the amount of hidden damage that shows up after something "was inspected" makes it not worth the risk. Send it back, the shipper screwed up and its on them.

    2) His distributor said to refuse it. An honorable distributor who stands behind his customer is laudable.

    You can call me all the names you like and down vote as much as you wish but doesn't change those two facts a wit.

    #44 2 years ago
    Quoted from Thermionic:

    Given it was your first game, you absolutely did the right thing by following the distro’s advice and sending it back.
    The remedies they are offering sound perfectly reasonable to me. Them opening, inspecting, and reboxing the game should enhance your peace of mind, not be a source of stress that you have paid full price for an “open box” item; in this case your “open box” pin is actually BETTER than a factory-sealed unit because it has received an extra layer of QC. Someone above pointed out that pinball is unlike any other “consumer” purchase, and this is a good example; avoid conflating an “open box” pinball machine with an “open box” laptop at Best Buy!
    Someone with more experience might inspect more closely for damage and keep the game if none is found, but there’s always the slight risk that the impact which damaged the box could have also caused concealed damage somewhere in the game. No shame in erring on the side of caution, especially when the seller is encouraging this approach.

    Great point, thanks! Fingers crossed it gets back to them quickly. I'll probably just drive out and haul it back myself this time, lol.

    #45 2 years ago
    Quoted from Maxforwardspeed:

    Great point, thanks! Fingers crossed it gets back to them quickly. I'll probably just drive out and haul it back myself this time, lol.

    I think you’ll be fine, this stuff is a pain but happens all the time, and it sounds like you are working with a stand-up distributor.

    I have gotten to the point that I prefer to (within reason) road-trip and pick up. The in-person interaction removes a lot of uncertainty, and of course no one is going to be more careful handling and transporting it than you, lol.

    #46 2 years ago
    Quoted from Bud:

    You’d be surprised at how badly damaged a box can be and how unaffected the contents will be. They box and pack the games to protect them, that’s what the packing is for.
    I recommend taking pics before the box comes off the truck, then check out the contents of the box where the damage is while the driver waits. Then ensure it’s annotated on the paperwork. I don’t care how pushy the driver gets or how much of a rush they’re in. Most of the damage comes from driver anyway as they are the ones who are moving other pallets and boxes around. I always seem to be the last delivery so my package has been moved, bumped and scuffed several times.
    If you plan on getting more pins via shipping, I’d recommend developing a good relationship with the driver and don’t forget to tip. Your items will likely be treated better in the future.
    Nothing was wrong with the contents of the box in attached pic, but it does look seriously damaged.
    [quoted image]

    I think this is great evidence that if you can inspect you should, even with minor damage. You don't know if it was just jostled around or had something stacked on the box or if the whole thing was dropped which is obviously going to be a huge difference in potential damage. A drop could result in minor box damage but do some bad stuff to the cabinet or mechanisms, or there could be large damage to the box that left the cabinet completely fine.

    #47 2 years ago

    But if your buying pins to flip or hord for later sale the box needs to be in good shape.

    -16
    #48 2 years ago

    You did the right thing! You just ordered the wrong machine Sorry but I'm doubtful this will hold it's over-all value.

    13
    #49 2 years ago
    Quoted from acedanger:

    You did the right thing! You just ordered the wrong machine Sorry but I'm doubtful this will hold it's over-all value.

    what an impressively lame thing to say to a person excited for their first new pin!

    It looks fun to me- I would suggest OP ignore people who get wound up about "value"

    12
    #50 2 years ago
    Quoted from acedanger:

    You did the right thing! You just ordered the wrong machine Sorry but I'm doubtful this will hold it's over-all value.

    haha, I figured this would come up. I admit that I had a hard time deciding which pin would be our first. Holding value was something that I thought about, but was more concerned about something that would ultimately be an enjoyable and straight-forward game to play. I know "home" pins have their shortcomings, but I am willing to overlook those in exchange for a fun game that will get a lot of plays. (We have young kids, so simple and fun is key)

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