I learned something new today; Pinball Receipts.

I'd love to hear the story how he wandered down to the local PD and explain he was filing a complaint that he lost a $200 deposit after stringing the seller out for 7 months.

The cops would throw him out on his ear.

Honestly, we are at that point which is really pathetic. Although I sold a game and deposited the money in my bank, so I might be on the lookout for a purchase receipt that I can give to the IRS when they come knocking haha

Agreed. But what if he files in small claims court? Then you have to go to court over $200?

Let him file.

Counter file for the full cost of the pin! Court works both way.

He can explain to the judge why he backed out, judges don't like having their time wasted.

Might actually end up costing him more in the end.

200 is yours it's a universal understanding "Deposit" non-refundable. Tell him for future deals don't be such a flake.

The $200 is yours.

Like most... non-refundable. If you're worried about karma then re-list and sell the game. If you get at least $200 more than he was willing to pay, you can send it his way if you want to. No obligation though.

As others have said, I don't take deposits (but have been offered many times). Cash on glass. I'm typically not in a rush to sell so will hold it for a short time for someone with a verbal agreement to give them time to come look at it. But once they're here, decide and buy or move along. No hard feelings either way. I can move on to the next guy in line... Never had a single complaint from anyone I've sold to...

My 2 cents...
Jaz

If he expects his money back, why even have a deposit in the first place?

The non-verbal expectation for a deposit to hold something (in my opinion) is that it’s non-refundable.

You lost out on a month worth of buyers. It could cost you a sale.

I had the same thing with a $600 pin sold to an out of stater via Craigslist. He Paypal'd me a $100 deposit to hold it for a month until he could get by to pick it up. Long story short, he delayed numerous times, all the while insisting he would be over to get it shortly. On one call after about 4 months, I could even hear his wife in the background shouting "why don't you tell him the truth? You know you're never going to get it."

During this time, I even had another collector look at it and try to buy it but I declined and told him I had a deposit on it. Anyway, after 6 months of excuses, I found another buyer for a hundred less than the original guy and sold the game.

Of course, the game wasn't gone for a week when the original guy called to see if I still had "his game". I told him I got tired of tripping over it for 6 months and finally sold it. You guessed it! He demanded his $100 deposit back and threatened to bad mouth me on every pinball site he could find if I didn't return it. Since I sold the game for $100 less to the new buyer, I told the original guy there was no way I was returning his deposit, the purpose of which is to get someone to take a game off the market and hold it.

He cried to Paypal and despite it being over 6 months from the original deposit transaction, they gave it back to him and debited my account, which was at zero. For the next year, Paypal contacted me regularly in an attempt to get me to pay them $100 but I told them to take a hike. End result, I cancelled Paypal and will NEVER use it again! The original weenie got his deposit back and I held a game for nearly 6 months and ended up selling it for a hundred less than before, after turning away another collector. It is what it is. But I rarely take deposits now unless stating clearly no refund, and I never, ever use Paypal for anything!!

Also, another time I had a guy leave a very substantial deposit on a WOZ, asking if I would hold it for a few weeks until he could get the rest of the money together. He called me a couple of weeks later to tell me that he had lost his job unexpectedly and asked was there anything I could do regarding return or partial return of his deposit. I immediately told him to stop by anytime and he could pick up the full amount of his deposit. He was very thankful and said he would buy a game from me when he got back on his feet. Never heard from him again, but no big deal. Giving him the money back in that situation was the right thing to do.

This is what I'm talking about, way too much drama to argue or a $100 deposit. Just give it back and be done with the person. Yeah it didn't work out the way you wanted too but such is life.

John

Please. Use some of that sense you surely were born with.

The point of researching the law is that if the law isn't on your side, court is not going to "work both ways". If the law expressly says that without a written agreement, deposits are refundable, then the only dispute the judge will worry about is whether a deposit was paid at all. So unless you're planning to go into court and lie about that, the person is going to get their deposit back and you will have wasted a huge amount of time for nothing.

It's way less of a hassle to just look up the law, than it is to have to deal with a court appearance, even a low-stakes one like small claims. And if you try idiotic tactics like counter-filing for the full cost of the pin (I guarantee there is no legal basis for that...you don't have to be a lawyer to know that's not going to fly), or hoping that the judge will have sympathy for you and ignore the actual law just because some random person didn't buy your pin, you'll be lucky if the judge doesn't get even more annoyed with you and add interest to the judgment in favor of the person getting their deposit back.

You're right about one thing: judges don't like having their time wasted, but you're completely ignorant about who that judge is going to feel is wasting their time if you refuse to check the law and press a case when the law requires you to return the deposit.

screw him, thats what deposit is for. no buy, no refund!

He has a lot of nerve to even ask for his money back after he jerked you around for months and waisted your time. Tell him the deposit doesn't even cover your wasted time and to eat a big bag of johnsons.

In the future never take deposits. He either wants the game or doesn't. Cash on the glass to the first buyer.

Or you can go on Judge Judy with Pete_D as your counsel and settle this dispute.... He's apparently has vast experience in pinball sales that fall through without contracts in he said/she said situations. Probably has some billboards around town showing his pinball sales cases won.

It is $200. If you didn't make clear in your written communications that the deposit was non-refundable then I'd just give it back and move on with my life. This is not a legal opinion but a realistic "it is on you for not being more specific so just give the cash back" type of view.

Next time, be more specific... or tell him "sorry - game goes to first person to put cash on glass". Lesson learned.

As others said, in this market you will likely sell the game at your price regardless. No harm, no foul.

FYI - I am a lawyer and I STILL wouldn't bother analyzing this any further than I put above.

Please cite the law you keep going on about.

Otherwise you are just blowing smoke.

The law is pretty clear about deposits in CT; if you break the deal and it doesn't fit within certain contingencies specified in advance YOU LOSE THE DEPOSIT.

If the guy broke a deal, it is certainly the sellers right to seek redress in small claims court.

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You incurred lost opportunity cost. That remains no matter if, when or how much you sell the game for. I think you went above and beyond checking with this guy numerous times. The prevailing opinion is that he loses the deposit but in the end you have to do what you feel is right. Holding stuff can be sketchy.

Wouldn't be worth the time of day for the buyer to go through courts to get his money back !

keep it and perhaps he will learn a lesson to not jerk people around !

thinking it was very nice of you to do this for him in the first place !

I would just give it back, seems the path of least resistance over a small sum of $$.

You have no idea what the buyer would consider "worth the time of day" to do or not to do. Making a decision based on assumptions about what a person you already view as irrational might do, isn't very rational.

And small claims is generally pretty low in terms of investment. So before a person goes putting themselves in a position where another person might be inclined to take them to court, that first person would do well to make sure they are on the right side of the law. Otherwise, not only do you have the hassle of having some irrational person drag your sorry butt into court, and being told to pay the $200 deposit back, you get to pay other direct costs like the court fees and process-serving fees (at least in my state that's how it works...YMMV).

WTF?

I never said the law said one thing or another. I said the seller should research the law to make sure the buyer isn't going to make a valid legal claim against them.

And since you say the law "is pretty clear", how about you cite this clear law stipulating that this particular deposit is non-refundable, and explain why you think CT law is somehow applicable to the seller in this case, who resides in CA (according to their Pinside profile anyway). Or were you not aware that different states have different laws?

I'm going to do what the OP should do.

Hey OP, I think all pete_d and I are saying is make sure you’re legally allowed to keep the deposit if you decide to do so.

Also keep in mind that you can get taken to court regardless if you are right or wrong. There are plenty of bored people around that love going to court.

I’m honestly not sure how this is becoming heated. I’ve been in this type of situation before and I wish someone had told me what could happen with irrational people.

Give it back to them in pennies

Being new to pinball, I had a situation occur that was similar involving a kinda well known pinball personality. Back in March I listed my Mando for sale and he agreed to buy it. Later on backed out, which I said was fine and went on my merry business.

Last month decided to sell him my Deadpool through a friend. Told him I’d hold on to it for about a month or so. A month came and he said he was still having trouble raising the funds, to which I said no worries, that I think I would just go ahead and keep it.

Shit hit the fan.

Dude started threatening to take me to court and blacklist me in the pinball community (remember, he’s kinda known). Said I couldn’t not sell it and I was to take his Deadpool Pro and 2k for my Premium (which wasn’t part of the deal). What’s funny is by this point he had forgot that he, in fact, backed out of the deal to buy my Mando months earlier, to which his response was that “it was a completely different situation” because he was the buyer and the buyer can back out. Then dude went after out mutual friend for siding with me.

So, dude sends me a billion threatening messages within the hour, all ranging from court threats to pinball blackballing. I’m pretty good at smoothing out situations so I was able to get him to calm down eventually, but it was a very intense situation there for a while.

What’s funny is that later he measaged me and asked not to mention his name in regards to the incident as it may affect his “brand” (after repeatedly threatening to blackball me from the community).

Pinballers can be weird.

Offering to start paying weekly is my big red flag here

If you’re going to give it back, why take the deposit?

Maybe he’s asking if he can have the money back, because it doesn’t hurt to ask? I’d probably ask even if it was stated that it was not refundable.

This is why I do not ask for deposits or accept when offered. Exclusively selling on pinside has worked pretty well for me. If a deal does not happen , I still have the pin and can and sell it later. I have had multiple occasions when some one has offered a deposit, I turned it down and the deal fell though latter on. No big deal move on. Do not want to deal with this decision.

Even though you're morally in your right, it's not worth it for $200 bucks. The fact that the buyer is asking for it back shows he's either mentally or morally bankrupt (or both).

What’s the point of a hold deposit if is refundable?

I would not ask for or take a deposit for a tangible item that I am trying to sell, if the prospective buyer can ask for it back 100% without following through with the purchase.

It seems all this accomplishes is headaches.

Your buyer never had the money to buy your machine. He was trying to buy time to raise funds, and then when he realized it was never going to happen, he wanted the little bit of money he had, back.

If it were me, I would refund his deposit, only because I am positive he doesn’t have the money. Not that keeping his deposit is wrong (it isn’t), but teaching someone a financial lesson that doesn’t have any finances, probably isn’t going to happen.

Keep the money. That $200 was for an exclusive option to buy that he no longer wants to exercise.

I think the op is taking the right approach. The buyer wasted your time, but didn't actually cause you any loss so its not worth the drama and bad blood. No harm giving him the 200 back, but him know most sellers would tell him to pound sand for not being able get his s##t together.

Aside from that, don't waste time on deposits. If someone doesn't come prepared with cash it's their loss.

I actually don’t have a problem with deposits, I have done several with sellers. The difference being my deposit was PayPal or wire transfer because the distance didn’t allow me to pick up a machine right away.

In this instance, a deposit AND seeing the game twice?

Buyer doesn’t have the money.

I think you should add a poll

A. Keep deposit
B. Refund deposit
C. Go to your local casino, pick a color or number, only refund $200 if you win big

So how much for Party Zone again?

Glad you have resolution Op.

Looking at how many times pete_d has gone out of his way to downvote common sense, being on Pinside a whole hot minute with zero market presence, it sounds like someone here may or may not currently be out $200 on a deposit.

With $200 discount of course

Smart decision to just give him his money back. A couple flat tires will cost you more than the $200. They would never file vandalism charges on him, unless someone saw him do it and can identify his face. At night, even most cameras wouldn't be detailed enough. Yeah, I know, he never said or implied vandalism, but you never know and it's not worth the risk.

I think guys deliberately use these tactics to delay a game from going into the market so they can buy it without competition. You'll find that these guys often have a reputation for being flaky d-bags among collectors. I've seen a few pretty serious pinball feuds lasting years flare up between adults fighting about buying or selling games. There's a lot of weirdos into pinball.

This is exactly why I don’t take deposits. So much differing opinions on what a deposit implies and could quickly turn to shit with the wrong lunatic buyer, especially if they know where you live after an inspection.
I’m a man of my word and expect others to be also. I’ll agree to hold a game for a reasonable timeframe ( say 4 weeks max) with it very clear and in writing that at 4 weeks and 1 day it is back on the market.
Although I’m saying this I’ve found that in the past I’d probably get 90% come good where as now I’m finding a lot more are pulling out. Maybe 50%. Hmmm maybe time to rethink my opinion on this.

I put a good faith deposit on a used truck recently. 1K

That was on a Saturday afternoon.

I flew up the following Monday to pick it up and it turns out the truck was not accurately represented in so many ways. Magic camera type of shit.

I bailed on the deal. Dudes would not refund my money. I used a credit card. Filed dispute. Credit card company is siding with the seller. Going to further argue with credit card company but it may be a lost cause.

I'm not sure what the moral of my story is. Maybe it is just some people suck. But in your case OP........keep the $200. It was several months. Not two days.

Good decision making comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad decision making.

It seems like you are a thoughtful person. Perhaps take it as a life lesson. In the future, you will be more comfortable dealing with the issue of deposits.

The whole theory behind a deposit is that their item will be held, you can't sell it to anyone else, and they are accepting that risk by ponying up their money in order for it to happen.

If you were a store with a policy for refunds in place and lots of other customers in line...a refund would be understandable. As an individual who has basically been forced to provide free storage, shun all other buyers, waste your time, and provide a free savings bank for their money...I would tell them to screw off.

No... deposit is non-refundable. If they drove from 6 hours away and the game didn't meet his expectations maybe give the deposit back but if they abandon the deal without showing no dice. The deposit obligates you not to sell. I'm doing deposits for games moving forward as I think it opens up the amount of people that might buy your pin. Not everyone has $5,000 for a nice Bad Cats laying around and giving the option to someone of $300 non-refundable but come up with the rest by the end of the month brings more buyers.

I've sold a couple dozen games and never taken a deposit from a potential buyer, nor been asked to take one.

Conversely, I've bought several games out of state/country that I've told the sellers "I can't get the game til this weekend, I'll send you $100 or $200 deposit, please consider it sold, remove the ad and if for whatever reason I don't take it, you keep the deposit."

I've never had anyone say no, and never not bought the game.

In this particular case, my first instinct is you held the game for a long time, he backed out of the deal, so he loses the deposit. My 2nd instinct - the guy knows where you live, the money isn't gonna change your life.......

Just the same, i'm gonna lean towards the first instinct. It's a cheap life lesson for the buyer, and it's probably not gonna change his life either.

It's ridiculous why would buyer spend more than the 200 in legal fees to get 200 back! Period don't be a flake & you won't lose 200 dollars. The End.