could be.
My first instinct would be the 1000 pts relay if its common to all 4 players

--Jeff

With EM's you don't do a lot of come by/replace.

You do more fix and repair.

LTG : )

Noting to be sorry about...asking questions is how we all learn.

2 good places that you might want to familiarize your self w/to help you along w/EM's if you haven't all ready.

http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index.htm

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=EM_Repair

Thanks to all of those that have contributed.

www.Team-EM.com

Just went throught this with my OXO on the 100s. Check and see if the 1000s relay is locked closed. Unplug the playfield to eliminate that as a source of the problem. Turn the game off and on. Check the relay. Start a game. check the relay. trigger something that scores 1000 on the playfield. check the relay. If if locks up, it could be the EOS switch on the 1000 reel of player one.

Mine is a Williams; Gottlieb may be different.

Dan

You won't regret it Surf Champ is a classic I love mine it's a definite keeper.

That's what happened to me. Started looking into whether or not I might be able to repair a cheap machine, and fell in love with the guts.

Mine was completely DOA, but it was simply a bunch of switch adjustments and a couple coils to replace. (And of course, a wash, backglass, etc, etc....)

Sweet! Pics or it didn't happen
-Jeff

I will be your scapegoat. Buy Buy Buy it..

oh thats just beautiful

First i would check the 0 position switches on the reels that do not reset.
One step at a time. lets get the reset fixed first

Ill bet when you look at the switches you will find that the rollover switches are not adjusted correctly either

--Jeff

The video is helpful. One really important step in diagnosing any issue on an EM is to clearly figure out what the symptoms are (and what they are not). Once this step is complete, fixing the problem can often be quite straightforward.

In your video, you show two reels not resetting to zero. All the rest are already at zero, so we don't know if they would reset or not. So my suggestion here is to pull out the reels one at a time, and actuate them to put them on a number other than zero - say 1 or 2 to see if they reset. The other (probably easier way) is to queue up a 4 player game and manually actuate the L, M, N relays to test the score reels, then see if 1. They work and 2. They reset at the start of a new game. You will, of course have to move from player to player to make this work for all the reels.

I also notice you are not scoring 1000. I'm not sure if this is due to the decade not carrying over from the 1000's, or you just can't EVER score 1000. Again, actuating the L relay would tell the tale here. The L relay is in the head. Another potential culprit is the player unit. This is the big stepper in the head. A "snowshoe" could be bound up and not making decent contact.

If you have a schematic and manual, check out the startup sequence in the manual. If you don't, I believe this is the correct sequence - it came from Mr. Pinball.

he following information is taken from the April 1976 Gottlieb Royal Flush manual. This may be helpful when debugging a startup problem with this or other Gottlieb 4-player games from the same period.

1. Inserting a coin or pushing the replay button actuates 'S' relay (Start relay).
2. This relay will lock-in through its own switch and a motor 2B switch.
3. 'S' relay starts the motor running.
4. 'AX' relay actuates and the 'coin' unit resets through switches on 'U' and 'S' relays and a switch on motor 1D. 'Q' and 'U' relays de-energize when 'AX' relay operates.
5. When 'AX' relay actuates, the reset relays 'Z1' and 'Z2' are energized in sequence by rivets on the 'Player' unit, through switches on 'AX' relay.
5a. Motor 1A steps the 'Player' unit, through switches on 'AX' relay and 'P5B', to the 20th position energizing 'Z1'.
5b. When 'Z1' is energized the 1st and 2nd player score units reset to zero through switches on motor 1A, motor 4A and 'Z1'. When all score units of the 1st and 2nd player are at zero the player unit steps to the 21st position through a normally closed switch on 'Z2' and normally closed switches on all score units of the 1st two players, actuating 'Z2' relay. The 3rd and 4th player score units now reset through switches on motor 1A, motor 4A, and 'Z2'. The player unit continues to its zero position through the closed switches on 'Z1', 'Z2', 'P5B' and motor 1A until 'P5B' opens.
6. When 'P5A' on the player unit closes, 'AX' and 'BX' relays reset through motor 2C and switches on 'U', 'O', and 'R' relays. The reset cycle is now complete.
7. Inserting additional coins or pushing the replay button will step the 'coin' unit to a maximum of 3 (4 players) through switches on 'U' and 'S' relays and a switch on motor 1D. The replay button circuit opens when 'coin' unit is on 3rd position.
8. Place the ball in the out hole. The ball return switch closes and completes the circuit to 'O' relay through the normally closed switches on 'A', 'AX', and 'Q' relays. 'O' relay locks-in through its own switch and a switch on motor 2B. When 'O' relay is energized, motor 4C actuates the ball return coil (which kicks the ball onto the runway) through a switch on 'O' and a normally closed switch on 'BX' relay. The ball is now on the runway and is ready to be put into play.
9. The remaining balls that enter the outhole are kicked across the trough switch which pulls in 'P' relay. 'P' relay runs the motor. Switches on 'U', motor 2C, 'P', 'BX', and motor 1A advances the 'Player' unit the required number of steps determined by the 'Player' unit switches and the 'Coin' unit.

Your score reel not carrying over to the 1,000's is usually due to the '9' position switch(0-9position switches) on the 100's score reel being out of adjustment. And as Jeff said check the '0' position switches on the score reels not resetting. If all good then we move on to another step amongst us helpers to try and get you going.

www.Team-EM.com

The circuit board isn't needed on all the reels. They're only used if the game needs to know which exact digit is showing on a given reel. On mine (a 4 digit score), the 1000 and 100 digits have boards, because I earn credits at 3100, 4400, and 5200 points. The 1000 and 100 digits match the setting in the backbox. My tens digit has no board, because it never matters. The ones digit does, because at the end of the game, a random number is given, and if my ones digit matches, I get another credit as well.

Wow. That got wacky. What all were you looking at/touching in there? Maybe something got bumped?

Your player unit changes every time the score motor runs.

Do you have a schematic? Do you have a manual? You NEED at least a schematic.

If you have a schematic, look in the area of 15 H and you will see that the flip/flop switch with the blue/white/red and red/white wires on the AX relay being out of adjustment would cause this symptom. Note that there are two flip/flop switch pairs on this relay, so be sure you look at the right one.

===>>> The AX is part of the reset sequence. It appears your reset sequence still needs work. Did you follow step by step the sequence above?

Slightly off topic here, but thought I'd comment. If your cabinet is dirty and some paint gone, you might try doing touch ups before resorting to a complete repaint. There are other threads on this site that would offer advice there. I tend to lean toward preservation of original artwork over complete repaints. If you have stenciled a cabinet before and do a good job, perhaps that's an option. If the artwork is 90-95% there, I prefer touch ups. Just my two cents. These guys are on the job with helping your mechanical issues. It will come together.

...as do 95% of the collectors out there.

EMs are a different world that DMDs. You can't slap a big decal on it and have it good as new. You need to make stencils, web/spatter it properly, spray with proper overspray, etc.

Unless it is toast, don't mess with it. You game looks better and will be more valuable with minor or no touch-ups.

The one overall shot of the game makes the cabinet look pretty decent. If you are coming from a dmd background, perhaps you are being too critical. I have saved much worse cabinets. I don't doubt your skills here, just a matter of perspective. I see some nails on the front that perhaps are someone's attempt to repair a loose front panel(?) I would consider repairing that properly with glue and maybe even reuse the nail holes with secure fasteners (ring nails, or narrow head screws) then fill the nail heads and touch up. Of course this assumes good touch up skills. Without actually seeing the entire game in person, I don't want to pass judgement on it.

I certainly wouldn't mess with it, at least not to re-stencil it.

Cab looks good to me also. I wouldnt re do it unless you were doing a complete CQ restore

Do what i do just move the pins you have closer together ,that way you dont see the sides.
Till you feel like painting them like they say, outta sight outta mind.

Except for a cleaning... Leave that cabinet alone.

I've made an animated video to help people understand how these types of score reels are reset:
http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/1971-1977-gottlieb-score-reel-reset-animation

It looks to me like there are a couple issues going on here. First, as mentioned before is the player unit advancing every time the score motor rotates.

The schematic below is the player unit circuit of my Spirit of 76. It certainly looks like the AX (reset relay) circled in red is not operating properly, the contacts are remaining closed when they should be open during a game. This allows the player unit to pulse through the P5B (arrow, player unit home position cam).
Screenshot_(105).png
The proper operation of the AX relay is so very critical, I'd view this video before messing with it:

Regarding the 100 score reel not advancing the 1000 score reel, it's more likely it's the end of stroke switch. The EOS switch has two contacts. One set of contacts open when the score reel solenoid pulls in, and the other one closes. (See the animation)
Your focus at this point should be the one that closes, particularly on the 100's reel. This closing switch works with the 9th position switch on the same reel.

When the 100's reel is in 9th position this switch is closed, and when the 100's EOS switch closes it completes the circuit to operate the 1000 score reel relay.

The circuit boards on the reels are only used for match and high score circuits.

Screenshot_(106).png

Here is an animation I made of your score reel switch:

Score_Reel_Switch_Animation.gif

You also mentioned the spring in the Player Unit was weak. Double check, it may not be weak. It is often the case the factory grease has solidified and causing the ratchet parts to gum-up making them more difficult to operate.

HOLY PINBALL SteveFury....your animations and explanations are just c-r-a-z-y good! WOW! I thank you.

Russ
www.Team-EM.com

Thanks Steve. I've been having some weird behavior with my reels resetting so this helps see what the switches need to be doing. I've cleaned all the 1st player reels and the 1000 reel is still slow to turn making the 10,000 reel double score sometimes. Just trying to find a happy medium to get it to turn nicely.

It's funny because the 2nd player reels turn better and I haven't touched half of them.

80% (or something like that) of all games on a 4 player machine are one player games only, so the one player reels get the most wear.

If you pull out your score reel and carefully watch the action of the switch stack, you will see that the switches have the highest load on them when in the ninth position. Often this is a source of drag. You need to do a delicate balancing act between too much force at the ninth position and not enough contact. Maybe look at your 3rd and 4th player reels to see how those are and make a judgement call based off of reels that "work good".

Coil sleeves, worn/mushroomed plungers, gunky circuit boards, and general dirt on the mechanism are other potential sources of drag. Without seeing what you did exactly, it is hard to say if these could still be contributing factors.

Pretty proud of the job I did on the so I don't think that's it but I was thinking of adjusting switches to let off some of the pressure. That's a complex setup though. *fingers crossed*

Congrats on your new pickup.

And again stevefury you are doing great work for our community and it is appreciated by many.

Thanks again for instructional vids and animations I think they are top notch.

Thank you for the compliments.
Schwarz your cabinet doesn't look to be in too bad of shape. I see a lot of dirt and junk stuck to it, flaked paint and a delaminated corner tacked together with brads. I could not think of a better project machine.
Some cleaning, some paint and -wow- what a beautiful restore job to be proud of!

Mean Green. Not Simple Green. Mean Green is the bomb. You get it at the dollar store. or as they say North of here, doughlar store.

Here is a good reference for you:

http://www.pinrepair.com/restore/index1.htm#cab