(Topic ID: 338547)

Red & Ted's Roadshow Switch glitch?

By galacticgames

1 year ago


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#1 1 year ago

Got a small issue. When one ball is locked and the spinner triggers game goes into slam tilt. If held longer than normal it causes a reboot.
Now I noticed that when a ball is locked it also disables the switches in column 2. Soon as the ball leaves switches work.

Note: Slam tilt is not in the door it was removed so that rules out that.

I do have new switches coming as I already tested the diodes and check good. Will see if this works.

I did rule out other switches when I trigger the spinner no other switch in that column do not trigger the slam tilt.

Any Ideas

#2 1 year ago

If the lock switch is disabling the other switches, it probably is actually triggering all of them if they work otherwise. I’d look very carefully at that switch if I were you.

#3 1 year ago

White and green wires on the correct places on the switch? Diode soldered the correct direction on the switch?

May even want to look at all the others in the same row and column as that switch.

#4 1 year ago

Wiring is correct along with the diode. When the new switches come in will see if this fixes it. It only appears the spinner and the lock 1 switch is the culprits right now.

#5 1 year ago

I cannot see an actual switch causing this issue.

Wiring wrong crossing between a switch row or column is the high possibility. Is why you need to check them all in the same row and column.

Stuck or very sensitive switch contacts can be an issue.

Other possibility is battery corrosion below the battery holder on the MPU board. Post a picture of the board please.

#6 1 year ago

Does your coin door closed switch work?

Did it used to work and stopped or is this machine new to you? Any battery corrosion damage on the board?

This is a classic example of a phantom switch closure in the matrix, you draw a box on the switches affected - so you have spinner and lock 1, slam tilt is activating. The missing switch in the 'box' that you draw there is the coin door closed switch.

As a note, when you're holding the spinner switch closed, the slam is activating (well, the whole column) - the game will boot with a stuck slam switch (even though it's not installed, it's the phantom switch) - it just won't boot with a bouncing slam switch.

For other phantom switch closures look at all switches in the same column/row and see if there's any mashed diodes where they shouldn't be (ramp switches get this a lot with airballs).

#7 1 year ago

MPU is good. No damage to board. This was repaired by another repair person. And I am cleaning up the mess. There were some hacked wiring along with the coils (held by zip ties). Once I get the parts I will put them in and see if this works, but won't be till next week when I get back. Right now its playable. I disabled the spinner for now.

#8 1 year ago

If it never worked properly and somebody else worked on it recently, I would suspect miswired switch, miswired diode or reversed diode. Check all switches on same column and row as the lock switch and spinner. If any look recently replaced, inspect very closely. Switch causing the issue likely isn't lock or spinner switch.

I don't suspect CPU board issue based on what you've posted, but easy to confirm it's not the CPU using the procedure linked below.

https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Williams_WPC#Switch_Matrix_Problems

#9 1 year ago
Quoted from galacticgames:

I noticed that when a ball is locked it also disables the switches in column 2.
Note: Slam tilt is not in the door it was removed so that rules out that.

I'm going to assume you still have a cabinet slam tilt ... but it doesn't matter.
slochar provided very good information but without an understanding of how the switch matrix actually works it may be difficult to understand.

The basics rules:
1) ANY closed switch in a row (white wires) forces all switches in the entire row to ground when its column (normally high) is pulsed (green wire).
2) The CPU sends a low pulse one column at a time which makes it the active column.
3) The CPU reads all rows looking for low pulses, and row that is low it marked as activated during its columns active time.

So what can go wrong ... a miswired switch or a backwards/shorted diode could allow more than one column to be activated at the same. So for instance the CPU pulses column two this low going pulse drives rows 2 and 4 low at a minimum through switches 22 and 24 which are usually closed. Lets say you have a backwards diode in Switch 52 AND Switch 52 is closed, what would happen is that since all of row 2 was driven low by the column 2 pulse now drives ALL of column 5 low and every closed switch row 5 also drives its corresponding row low and every time the spinner spins its read as a slam tilt by the CPU.

To properly diagnose this you need to see the entire matrix in switch test and note any switches that are closed in both columns 2 and 5 at the same time. This is the box slochar was talking about.

Quoted from galacticgames:

I disabled the spinner for now.

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1 week later
#10 1 year ago

Hopefully this Friday will cure the issues. Just waiting for the parts to arrive now. 1 week and still waiting. Mainly because they had the eye lids for Ted as his broke. And also putting in the updated rom to ease the shaker motor. It shakes alot.

1 week later
#11 1 year ago

Ok. It is apparently was the switch on the LOCKUP 1 (switch 52). After swapping it out all the issues disapeared.

Thanks for the help.

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