(Topic ID: 146293)

Recel The Fiery 30's troubleshooting

By Oldiron58

8 years ago



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#1 8 years ago

Looking for one of you Tech wizards to help get me up and running. Just had this machine dropped in my lap and am having problems getting it to reset. Without a schematic it seems that all the features are working properly except getting the "game over" light to go out and start a new game. The game is mint and I want to start playing it. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, or even a schematic to troubleshoot with. I have a Williams Shangri-La that I restored so I kind of know the basics. Seems like its going to be a challenge. Keeps the mind young! By the way this is my first post on this site.

#2 8 years ago

Wow I didn't even know this pin was still in existence. Great find!

#3 8 years ago

Do you know these machines? Even if you have any suggestions on a schematic for it.

#4 8 years ago

Hi Oldiron58
Your descrition of the problem(s) is not so good "everything works but the Game-Over-light does not dissapear, but the start of a new game does not work" - hmmm.

When I have problems to start a game: I like to manually put the pin in state "the former game was a 1-Player game, all balls have been played, the Score-Reels of Player-1 have some points on the counters, player-2-4 have no points, the Game-Over-Relay came to "Game-Over"".
If I want to be accurate / exact: I put the Coin-Unit to "1 player - lowest position", the Player-Unit to "1 player - lowest position", the Ball Count Unit to "3 or to 5 - depending on how the adjustment Jack is set (3-3, 5-5)" - well, mostly I am lazy and forget about Coin-Unit, Player-Unit, Ball-Count-Unit ...

ipdb.org does not have many schemas: http://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?gtype=EM&mfgid=262&yr=1960-90&sortby=date&searchtype=advanced -> want to look at "Schema Space Race" ?

Here: http://www.tecnopinball.org/doc_biblioteca.php they have "Check Mate" and they have "BangBang" - "ipdb: Bang!Bang!". "BangBang" is the 2-Player-Version of Your pin.
If Your problem(s) are related to / with "Player-Unit - Points are not given to the Score-Reels": It might be better to look in the schema of a 4-Player-Game.

If the problem(s) are "basic start does not work": The schema "BangBang" is useful (hoping: the BangBang is wired the same as the fiery-30).

Want to put Your pin in state "former play was a regular play and has ended normal" - then start a game and report the VERY FIRST fault ?

The schema BangBang tells me: "Game-Over-Relay" is in the "Control Banck (Relay-Bank)" - it has switches: One of type-A, 3 of type-B, one of type-C (1-Normally-Open, 3-Normally-Closed, 1-make-and-Brake).
Please report (very first fault) and we will go through the schemas. Greetings Rolf

P.S.: I am interested in Your Shangri-La (I own one, my first love in 1969/70) - here in a Gay 90's: http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=989&picno=53308 they show the "available on request Extraball Relay mounted", Shangri-La, here http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2110&picno=64764 and http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2110&picno=64797 : that Relay is not installed - DO YOU HAVE SUCH A PRECIOUS EXTRABALL RELAY - Please report.

1 week later
#5 8 years ago

Hi Rolf
Thanks for your reply. Yes I agree that was not the best description to troubleshoot with. I am in the process of locating all the relay banks and seeing what they do. I will have a better description in my next post. I will also send pictures for you to look at. I have attached a picture of where the extra ball relay should be on Shangri-La. Looks like it was never installed.
RickIMG_1261.JPGIMG_1261.JPG

#6 8 years ago

no sorry I don't know them, I don't work on machines I just play them. The nitro elves fix my machines when needed

#7 8 years ago

Hi Oldiron58
this topic and the posts are about "The Fiery 30's". I refer to my post-4: If the problem is "a feature (on the playfield) is not working properly" -> Schema BangBang.
If the problem is "the startup / reset does not work properly" -> a schema of a 4-Player pin (4-Player pins have "Coin Unit / Player Unit" - 2-Player (1-Player) pins are wired in a different way -> schema "Check Mate" or "Space Race".

"Pictures of the Relays and Units in the Fiery 30's" ? Do not "overdo". It is very seldom that I see a fault in a picture, they are nice to look at - BUT: I like "looking for a problem by looking at a schema (Check Mate or BangBang) and I see in the schema: "A wire runs from "Normally-Open-Switch on Relay-QV to the Coil of Relay-TF" -> I then write: Look for the colour of the wire on "Coil of Relay-TF" - remember that color -> Look at the Switches on Relay-QV for the SAME color ->investigate at the "Switch having the same wire (color)".

About "Shangri-La": Great, You too love that pin. I donated the last two pictures and the partial manual: http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2110&picno=64764 .

We had a chat in: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/anyone-know-the-first-williams-game-to-include-a-manual -> posts-9 to -15.
At the end of post-9: Want to connect "R-3" and "L-4" and see the "Extraball Lights lightet" ?
Look at Your picture in Your post-5 -> Jumper-Jack, the Left side, Top-Down: L1, L2, L3, L4.
On the Right side, Top-Down: R1, R2, R3, R4. Simply jumper R-3 <-> L4 and watch the lights on the playfield and on the Backglass: http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2110&picno=20171&zoom=1 (hard to see, to the right of the Ladys hat.
OF COURSE: That jumpering (R-3 <-> L4) ONLY turns on the lights ...

Write about the problems of "The Fiery 30's" - maybe write about Your Shangri-La.
Greetings Rolf

1 week later
#8 8 years ago

Starting out I of course looked for any obvious problems like broken wires and dirty contact points and did find broken wires (2ea) on the ball unit at the top of the back cabinet(white wires) and some dirty contacts on the unit I have attached a picture of (looks like some kind of rotary unit) Could this be the player unit? Keep in mind I am working on this machine with no diagrams so I am doing the best I can to describe what I'm seeing. I have had no luck in getting any of the similar schem's to aid in troubleshooting as you mentioned in post 4 and 7. I followed your instructions in post 4 and put the game in 1 player mode with points on the counter and player 2-4 with nothing . Jacks set at 5 balls per game . When attempting to restart with the free play button on the coin door the only action I get is the game count changes in a way that subtracts a game from the counter. If I had to pick a problem description I would say your quote of "the startup / reset does not work properly" would fit. I then tried to manually hold the replay relay "V" and got a total reset of the 1st ball counter , the ball in play showed 1 and the game restarted normal. When I let go of the relay everything went back to game over mode. That was the only way I was able to get the machine to work normal. If I was able to trace what powers the reset relay "V" I would say that would be a good start. It seems that yellow wires are used as power to a number of relays in that bank and they do check with a meter as such. I couldn't locate any of the relays mentioned in post 7. The only ones with two letters are the relay bank (attached picture). Also there is a blue resistor in the picture that was extremely hot and gave off an odor of something burning. I don't know what this is but it must play a part in the big picture. I hope this gives you sort of an idea what I'm looking at and I will take any suggestions you have for a fix or direction.Sorry I cant be more specific with details. Thanks for listening.

I'm going to go play my Shangri-La for some therapy.

Regards

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#9 8 years ago

Hi oldiron58
sorry - I missed Your reply.
The rotary unit (post-8, pic-1) is the Score-Motor. Every time a feature wants to take place - and it takes a few steps (rewarding You with 300 Points - pulsing 3 times the 100-Point-Relay etc.) the feature calls for help - the Score-motor does a turn - pulsing.

You manually activate the "V-Replay-Button-Relay". You get a nice reaction (restarted normal) - but then (You let go) it returns to "Game-Over".
Please do the same with the "S-Start-Relay" and report (probably the same reaction - hopefully a better reaction).

Recel pins are (sometimes) clones of Gottlieb pins - the logic is the same. At the end of the Reset (Score-Reels and such) the pin does reset the "Relay- / Reset-Bank" - does Your pin activate (at end of Reset-Cycle) this bank (post-8, pic-2) ?
Do You have a 4 Amp Fuse nearby the Bank ? Some other place in the cabinet ? Look around everywhere - take a fus out of the holding socket - look at the socket -> wires soldered-on ? Test the fuse with an simple flashlight - is the fuse good ? (a fuse can be "blown" - BUT looking at it: You say "is good" - BUT it is blown. Do this with every fuse You find.

The "blue resistor" ? I guess this is a capacitor - broken down / shot. It should not overheat.
I look in the schema "Bangbang" - at G-9 I see a symbol drawn - I do NOT understand / do not know. It is in the wiring of "Coin-Lockout-Coil"- there is also the symbol of a "diode". Do You have a diode with the "blue resistor / capacitor" ?
Unplug the Line-cord -> Unsolder both sides (take away the wires) at the "blue resistor / capacitor".
Plug in the pin - do some testing -> Do you have "normal-faulty" behaving ? OR: NOTHING WORKS (anymore) ? Please report.

Shangri-La was my first love (1969/70) - still it is - playing a couple of games is (very) good therapy.
Looking at Your picture in post-5: You have the "Jumper-Jack (for REPLAY-GAME) mounted - question: do You have the ultra-rare "Extraball-Relay available on request (1967)" ? Look here: http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/2110/Williams_1967_Shangri_La_Extra_Ball_Relay_Assembly_Installation.pdf , here (Gay 90's): http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=989&picno=53310

(((Shangri-La: Want to read: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/personal-touch-to-your-em-games -> post-264 -> https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/anyone-know-the-first-williams-game-to-include-a-manual -> post-9, post-11, post-12 (-13, -14, -15): Does Your "Center Target look like the one in post-12" please report.
Read my post-9, Do YOU want to have such a "add on" (((Everything You have PLUS the opportunity to gain a Extra-Ball, Text in post-9: "With all (my) information ..."))) - then write.
Greetings Rolf

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