(Topic ID: 290722)

Rebuilt my working Big Time bingo machine and now its dead!

By alb0711

6 months ago


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  • 12 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 64 days ago by baldtwit
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#1 6 months ago

I just finished a complete over hall of what was a working Big Time. My machine was working fine when I disassembled everything for cleaning and repainting. When I turn it on now I get lighting on the low power circuits on both the backglass and playfield. If I manually hold down the reset relay I get 110 power to my mixer and control unit but I don't seem to have power to any of the relays. I've checked all fuses and measured power from the transformer thinking maybe I had an issue with the 50v circuit but everything seems ok. I have loaded all 8 balls. The credit buttons and coin mechanism don't seem to do anything. I'm guessing I have a tilt switch issue or perhaps a loose wire somewhere.

Anybody have a suggestion about where to look next?

Thanks!
Allen

#2 6 months ago

Is your tilt trip relay tripped? It's in the middle of the trip bank on the back door.

If it is, what happens if latch it (with power off) and try again? Does it trip immediately?

If it is not, then your issue is likely in your 50V circuit, which of course runs through everything. My prime suspect is usually control unit cam switch 3A. A lot of current runs through that switch and it is normally pitted enough that the slightest disruption kills 50V through the majority of the game - especially the startup circuitry.

#3 6 months ago

if the game wasn't modified for free play, add credits to the register and turn the game on to see if they come off.

if they don't, manually close the anti-cheat relay. If it doesn't stay powered by itself, your 50V has a problem. If it does, manually close the start relay and see if anything happens.

#4 6 months ago

Thanks for the suggestions! The tilt relay was indeed tripped and for some reason the bank wasn't resetting. I manually unengaged it and now and now I've got 50v. Tilt relay does not trip again, so I'm guessing somewhere during my work it got tripped. Still issues with accepting credits, machine sort of thinks about enabling the first payoff schedule then resets. Looking forward to getting the old girl back up and running!

Allen

#5 6 months ago

the tilt trip relay only disconnects 50V to most of the machine. The circuits needed to reset the game aren't affected by the tilt trip relay state.

if your game used to remove credits on power-on, whether that still works will narrow things down.

manually closing the start relay and seeing if the start relay holds itself powered until partway into the cycle will also tell ya something.

if you push down the start relay armature plate and it doesn't stay on the coil top, or credits used to get removed and now don't, then BCP suggestion of CU cam 3A switch is good. The only other switches in the start relay hold circuit are search index 17B (top switch on search index unit) and much less likely replay reset relay switch E.

if manually closing the start relay cycles the game, then your problem is making the start relay power from the coin switch ... could be plug connections. A test is to:
1] turn on machine
2] manually close the anti-cheat relay. It should stay powered by itself
3] add a few credits to replay register
4] push red button

if neither red button nor coin switch work, only thing left is the plug connections, a E.B. play relay switch and a replay reset relay switch E. See schem around E3.

#6 6 months ago

Thanks baldtwit, this is very helpful. When I manually add credits then turn on the machine it does drain the credits. The start relay stays closed on its own but it releases and engages every few seconds. Credits are draining but pause during drain and then continue the drain. When I load credits to an already started game pressing the red button does nothing. I visually checked my Jones plugs at door and they look ok. Could the non start be related to ball trough? I took the entire trough apart and it’s possible something there is out of adjustment. I’ll check out eb relay and replay reset.

Thanks!

#7 6 months ago

before reading any below, the search wipers spin all the time when you turn on the game, right? If the search index unit is powering and stopping the wipers, that's a problem.

assuming the search wipers are fine, credits should get removed at a steady cadence.

the start relay releases and re-energizes itself? What should happen when there's no credits is:
- you manually close the start relay and it keeps itself powered
- when the start relay first closed, the timer cams index and mixer latch coils power and the game starts it's cycle
- when the timer cams rotate around 45 degrees (typically ... I don't have timing diagrams for big time yet), the start relay unpowers and stays unpowered
- cycle continues until timer cams rotate 180 and lock
- sometimes units continue to step up, but soon stop

once the start relay unpowers, nothing should be able to repower it is switch D on it is opening correctly. D is the top switch.

did you mean the replay reset relay is powering and unpowering while credits are being removed? That would cause irregular cadence. The start relay is the middle one in the 5 relay bank, the replay reset relay is on the bottom.

got a voltmeter or jumper wire?

jumper wire:
--------------
with no credits on the game, connect one end to wire 30 on the transformer. Wire 30 is the one that attaches to a bottom lug then loops up to a top lug. Connect other end to the middle blade on the left switch on the replay register (wire 48-2). Flick coin switch and see if the game responds.

If it does:
- turn off the game reasonably quickly to avoid holding some solenoids powered too long.
- move jumper end from replay register switch to CU 3A switch with the black/yellow wire on it (other wire on 3A is green/black ... same wire that was on the replay register switch)
- try the coin switch. If it works, search index 17B isn't closed well. If it doesn't work, CU 3A switch isn't closed well

voltmeter:
------------
game on. Stick one probe on wire 70 on any handy 50V coil or the 50V fuse. Put other probe on wire 48-2 on the middle blade of left replay register switch. Got 50VAC? If yes, hold down the coin switch. Still have 50V?

if you didn't see 50V on wire 48-2 or the 50V dropped way down when holding down the coin switch, then CU 3A or search index 17B is making no/poor connection. Move probe from 48-2 to to black/yellow wire 83-3 on the CU 3A switch to see what the 50V is doing there.

1 week later
#8 6 months ago

So Cam switch 3A was indeed my primary issue. It didn't have enough tension on it and I did remove the cam switch group when I rebuilt the machine. I've still got other funky stuff going on which will take some time but the game does now reset and start. Thanks for all of your help!

Allen

4 months later
#9 65 days ago

I became very frustrated with all the issues after my machine rebuild so I just ignored it the last 4 months. It's been too hot and smoky the last few weeks here in Denver to go outside so I finally got back to working on it and thought I'd share my very embarrassing root cause of all the issues I had with Big Time after a rebuild.

I went through the step by step trouble shooting suggestions by baldtwit and I kept ending up at cam switch 3A as suggested originally by bingopodast.

My tip of the day..... look closely at the control unit diagrams and charts that hopefully came with your machine. Don't ASSume like I did that cam switches were by nature normally open. Yep.... I had adjusted 3A over and over again so that it hit just right as a normally open switch.

Before retiring I was a programmer, we'd tell the rookies to RTFM. IM me if you don't know the acronym!

I readjusted the switch per the documentation to normally closed and my big time will play with me again.

Thanks for the help patient Bingo friends!

Allen

#10 65 days ago
Quoted from alb0711:

I readjusted the switch per the documentation to normally closed and my big time will play with me again.

Great that you got it going! Sometimes it just takes a clear mind and some time to solve a problem.

Thanks for reporting the resolution!

#11 64 days ago

If you ever want to see weird bingo machine behavior, make 3C a N.O. switch!

#12 64 days ago

couple notes:

1] don't always believe the manual, but always believe the schematic. There's only been a couple schem errors found, but many manuals have issues.

2] the timer cams index unit position on the shelf is adjustable. More-or-less centered in the range works, but if you shove it too far forward the switch stack will be partway up a cam lobe and the switch state may be wrong.

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