(Topic ID: 179619)

Rebuilding sound for DataEast & WPC using a pi

By steve45

5 years ago


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  • Latest reply 8 days ago by Robotworkshop
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#1651 11 months ago

Follow-up for anyone else who encounters the errors I saw, switching from Pi 4 to Pi 3B+ resolved the issues immediately.

#1652 11 months ago
Quoted from Ashram56:

Well if the fuse blows regularly, that's not good news.
So, questions:
1/ Did you connect anything on the board, especially on the so called PIN2DMD or 12V connector (for example to power your PIN2DMD) ? If so, please disconnect, this is not designed for that
2/ are your fuse slow blow or fast blow ? If Fast Blow, this would indicate you have a transient, if slow blow this would more indicate you're drawing too much current in average
3/ do you see any damage on the 12V regulator -the one with the blue PCB and the small variable resistor) ?
Can you check if you have a residual resistance between 12V and ground ?

1/ I’ve got nothing extra connected to the board
2/ fuse is fast blow. What is spec’d out here? It doesn’t blow regularly. I just played about a dozen games with no problems, but it has blown 3 fuses so far...
3/ I don’t see any damage on the 12v reg (pic below).
As for residual resistance, I’m not seeing any between the IN+ and IN- on that regulator when the power is off.

All that said, it’s currently working well, and I’m playing around with different sound packages at the moment. Pretty fun stuff.

EC9B15C0-D6C5-4D4B-98BF-025AC08ABB2F (resized).jpeg
#1653 11 months ago

Finished assembling the PCB today. I get the boot up sound and I can play sounds from the web ui but I get nothing from the game itself... Data East TFTC... Any suggestions on where to start? original sound board was working fine just popped it in to try it

#1654 11 months ago
Quoted from silen7ce:

Finished assembling the PCB today. I get the boot up sound and I can play sounds from the web ui but I get nothing from the game itself... Data East TFTC... Any suggestions on where to start? original sound board was working fine just popped it in to try it

There are several different versions of the board. Can you provide some extra details?

- What version of the board? 3.5 or earlier?

- What version of the software did you download?

- What model Raspberry Pi are you running?

- What sound set are you using? One of the altsound packs?

#1655 11 months ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

There are several different versions of the board. Can you provide some extra details?
- What version of the board? 3.5 or earlier?
- What version of the software did you download?
- What model Raspberry Pi are you running?
- What sound set are you using? One of the altsound packs?

Newest version of the board, just bought it. Same with the image.. not at home but just downloaded last night. Pi 3b. Tftc altsound pack

#1656 11 months ago

What is the actual version number of each? Is the sound board the latest version with the extra processor inline with the RPi? Also is your Raspberry Pi a 3B or 3B+. The more details you can provide the easier it is to help.

#1657 11 months ago

He is using a 3.6.

Since you are getting sounds from the web interface, it seems to me like its not seeing the commands from the game. Make sure the cable is in the correct direction and manually set it to DE mode (the auto detection hasnt worked for me or others) and reboot.

If that doesn't work, you are going to need to download the log and post it or look for errors in it.

#1658 11 months ago
Quoted from BrewNinja:

He is using a 3.6.
Since you are getting sounds from the web interface, it seems to me like its not seeing the commands from the game. Make sure the cable is in the correct direction and manually set it to DE mode (the auto detection hasnt worked for me or others) and reboot.
If that doesn't work, you are going to need to download the log and post it or look for errors in it.

Also on DE make sure the orientation of the cable is correct. I'm not sure if it changed on the newer boards but on the older ones it was reversed from the DE sound board.

#1659 11 months ago

Thanks for the tips I’ll report back tonight!

#1660 10 months ago
Quoted from Zigzagzag:

Perhaps steve45 can confirm if this is correct - and maybe there should be some way to take care of this in the software ?

the firmware update for STM works by checking the version of STM firmware via i2c then checking the file system for a firmware newer than on the STM. and if newer available, flash it, then rename firmware file to done

#1661 10 months ago
Quoted from steve45:

the firmware update for STM works by checking the version of STM firmware via i2c then checking the file system for a firmware newer than on the STM. and if newer available, flash it, then rename firmware file to done

Yes, that was what I found out.

What happened to me was this :
I had 1 working board and 1 non-working.
I took the STM from the working board and put in the non-working - and now it worked.
So I put the STM from non-working into working - but since the update was done on the other STM this was not programmed - the bin file was not found.
This took some time to find out.
Renaming the bin file without ".done" fixed the problem for me.

So what I am trying to say, the update/programming STM method is not 100% robust as it is now.

#1662 10 months ago
Quoted from Zigzagzag:

So what I am trying to say, the update/programming STM method is not 100% robust as it is now.

It should be with the 1.37 if you don't change of sd cards. The renaming to "done" in the latest firmware will only happen when there was a successful flash call, otherwise there will be a second try ...

Before it could happen that a firmware files was renamed, even though the flash process failed. I guess that's what happened with one of your boards.
It could maybe improved further by not renaming the firmware file at all, but this would require the updater to deal with a list of firmware files and choose the the one with the highest version.

#1663 10 months ago
Quoted from steve45:

It should be with the 1.37 if you don't change of sd cards. The renaming to "done" in the latest firmware will only happen when there was a successful flash call, otherwise there will be a second try ...
Before it could happen that a firmware files was renamed, even though the flash process failed. I guess that's what happened with one of your boards.
It could maybe improved further by not renaming the firmware file at all, but this would require the updater to deal with a list of firmware files and choose the the one with the highest version.

I think the flow that Zigzagzag describes is the following:
- Put a fresh TA install sdcard in a system, boot
- System flashes STM32, rename file to .done if flash is successful, all is good

- Move SD card to NEW TA, with unprogrammed STM32

In this case, since the flash did take place on first board, the .done file is present, so TA SW does not detect that STM32 is not programmed on the second board

#1664 10 months ago
Quoted from Ashram56:

I think the flow that Zigzagzag describes is the following:
- Put a fresh TA install sdcard in a system, boot
- System flashes STM32, rename file to .done if flash is successful, all is good
- Move SD card to NEW TA, with unprogrammed STM32
In this case, since the flash did take place on first board, the .done file is present, so TA SW does not detect that STM32 is not programmed on the second board

That's another case where the current update process won't work, that's true.

What I did was this :

Start card #1 with STM #1 - the STM is programmed and card works.
Take STM #2 from card #2 that doesn't work.
Put STM #2 in card #1 - now card #1 doesn't work.

This led me to believe there was something wrong with the STM, so I tried card #1 with another STM (say #3).
When this didn't work either I took a look at the software and found this bug.

I never switched SD-cards, but as you say Ashram56, that would give the same result.

#1665 10 months ago

Question on the “ducking”:
Let’s say background sound A is playing, and sound B call out comes along to be played. Sound B has a ducking value of 60. Does this mean sound A will decrease to 60% (or BY 60%?) for as long as sound B is active?
This would mean the ducking value for sound B is actually applied to all OTHER sounds, and has no direct affect on sound B itself?
Am I grasping this right, or am I way off?

Thanks,
Jeff

#1666 10 months ago

Is this correct, is the end-of-ball-flipper-snap a function of the sound board ?

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/addams-family-end-of-ball-flipper-snap-not-activating

Perhaps that is why it never seems to happen now on my TAF ?

#1667 10 months ago
Quoted from Grangeomatic:

Let’s say background sound A is playing, and sound B call out comes along to be played. Sound B has a ducking value of 60. Does this mean sound A will decrease to 60% (or BY 60%?) for as long as sound B is active?

Background sound A is reduced to 60%.

#1668 10 months ago
Quoted from Zigzagzag:

Is this correct, is the end-of-ball-flipper-snap a function of the sound board ?

After doing some research I'm actually still not 100% sure but I doubt it. The TAF is fliptronics 1, so the MPU is anyway in control of the flipper coils. So why should they do something additionally with sound board? maybe the synchronized timing could be a challenge, but I still cannot find any hint of something special with the sound board for TAF. But I'm always open to new insights

#1669 10 months ago
Quoted from steve45:

After doing some research I'm actually still not 100% sure but I doubt it. The TAF is fliptronics 1, so the MPU is anyway in control of the flipper coils. So why should they do something additionally with sound board? maybe the synchronized timing could be a challenge, but I still cannot find any hint of something special with the sound board for TAF. But I'm always open to new insights

Yeah, seems strange to me too. But then again, I haven't had the flipper snap on my TAF with TiltAudio yet.

Guess I'll have to play it some more ....

#1670 10 months ago

Anyone have a picture of the board in a Data East machine? Trying to see what the oled looks like (which way it needs to be rotated). Thanks.

#1671 10 months ago
Quoted from BrewNinja:

Anyone have a picture of the board in a Data East machine? Trying to see what the oled looks like (which way it needs to be rotated). Thanks.

Based on the picture here: https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/images/8/86/De_boardset.jpg
It looks like the audio board is rotated counter clockwise (ribbon cable at the bottom, speaker connector on the left)

#1672 10 months ago

Anyone would know of a 2 channels or even 4 channels bluetooth mixing table (ie mixing sound from four different bluetooth sources).

That would be awesome, with TA bluetoot capabilities, you could connect multiple pinball machines to a single subwoofer in your line up.
Alternatively adding bluetooth audio adapters, but it's not as integrated and clean

#1673 10 months ago
Quoted from Ashram56:

Anyone would know of a 2 channels or even 4 channels bluetooth mixing table (ie mixing sound from four different bluetooth sources).
That would be awesome, with TA bluetoot capabilities, you could connect multiple pinball machines to a single subwoofer in your line up.
Alternatively adding bluetooth audio adapters, but it's not as integrated and clean

I haven't seen mixers with multiple bluetooth inputs, but you can use a couple of these : https://www.radialeng.com/product/bt-pro

#1674 10 months ago
Quoted from Zigzagzag:

I haven't seen mixers with multiple bluetooth inputs, but you can use a couple of these : https://www.radialeng.com/product/bt-pro

BT is a "shared media" with limited bandwidth. You might get problems if multiple devices are used at the same time.

1 week later
#1675 10 months ago
Quoted from silen7ce:

Thanks for the tips I’ll report back tonight!

Ended up being a flaky connector. Appears to be working right now. Time to start playing with the mix!

#1676 10 months ago

I've got multiple Tilt!Audio devices. Does anyone know how to change the SSID of the WiFi for the config?

#1677 10 months ago
Quoted from pavel_one:

I've got multiple Tilt!Audio devices. Does anyone know how to change the SSID of the WiFi for the config?

It does not precisely adress your question, but turn on one at a time, connect, then go into the config page to connect Tilt Audio to your home wifi network (you can also change the device name in the config, such as TiltAudio_Indy for example). That way you can easily access them all the time, especially useful for uploading packs. IMO a better alternative than having TA each acting as an access point.

Regards

#1678 10 months ago
Quoted from Zigzagzag:

Yeah, seems strange to me too. But then again, I haven't had the flipper snap on my TAF with TiltAudio yet.
Guess I'll have to play it some more ....

Still no snaps on TAF at end of ball.

Could it be that the sound board sends commands to the Fliptronics board ?
After all, they are on the same data bus and the original sound board can send info to at least the MPU on demand ?

1 week later
#1679 9 months ago

Hi all just completed my tilt audio board assembled is a 3.6,and I’m having some issues!!
As per guide I downloaded the zip file 1.37big.img.zx and using ballenna etcher created the sd card .
After that I install it on my raspberry pi 3A+ and powered up!! Nothing happens ,no sound ,no text on the mini display !
Speakers are connected properly .
As per brewninja advised to use zip 1.34.big.img.zx.
Any one having same issues?
From what I understand I don’t need to specify what game Wpc or de since is a 3.6 board,also adding some photos with power on leds and pi also a red light on and when first power up the green light on the pi is flashing a few times.
Any help or suggestions would be gladly appreciated.
Regards

5FEC55E4-5B2D-4D0D-8980-5AE6F34068A5 (resized).jpeg9FB8D07D-227D-4022-BB61-C89751DD098E (resized).jpegD77B5ED8-23B1-46AF-AA94-21D1E501DB4E (resized).jpeg
#1680 9 months ago

There is a bug which prevents using Rpi3a+, for now you need to use rpi3b+

However your description would tend to indicate a power issue, does the rpi green led turns on?

If not, check the voltage level at the output of each regulator, one should read 5v, the other 12v

(edit) well I should have read more thoroughly. Looks like your rpi does not boot although it's powerd on, check the voltage levels though just in case, reflash the microsd card with another card

#1681 9 months ago

So just tried1.34.big.img.zx and still nothing,so i formated again and will try to balena etcher again the sd card with 1.34 again and give it a try.
The SD card i'm using is 64gb ( hope this won't be an issue) if it is will buy a 32 gb Any suggestions!!
I have tested the noltage for 12v and 5 v and the measurments i'm getting are 4.97v and 11.97v.
So from what I have read is this the correct way to do it:
use balena etcher to unzip and set up the sd card with this file 1.34.big.img.zx after that add sound files unzipped in the sound folder and give it a test on the PI!!
Is this the way you set up the SD card??????
regards
Dimitri

#1682 9 months ago
Quoted from JIMAKOST:

So just tried1.34.big.img.zx and still nothing,so i formated again and will try to balena etcher again the sd card with 1.34 again and give it a try.
The SD card i'm using is 64gb ( hope this won't be an issue) if it is will buy a 32 gb Any suggestions!!
I have tested the noltage for 12v and 5 v and the measurments i'm getting are 4.97v and 11.97v.
So from what I have read is this the correct way to do it:
use balena etcher to unzip and set up the sd card with this file 1.34.big.img.zx after that add sound files unzipped in the sound folder and give it a test on the PI!!
Is this the way you set up the SD card??????
regards
Dimitri

Can you hook up a screen to the HDMI output on the PI and see what is happening during boot ?

#1683 9 months ago
Quoted from Zigzagzag:

Can you hook up a screen to the HDMI output on the PI and see what is happening during boot ?

Yes of course will do this morning and also test the sd card again with 1.34 and see
Thank you

#1684 9 months ago

Today had it figured out ,the issue was the sd card 64gb for some reason would it allow to boot the PI!!
All started the mini display came to life and got a serial number and announcements to register and the sn .
Then I log in web ui .
Here is the weird stuff,I press the flipper button to hear a sound and I get a sound but at the back round there was another sound playing,I said ok will give it a look later,so I was on the web UI and started to listen to sounds and wile listening to the sound clips,I lose network tilt audio and no connectivity with the board ,no sounds playing at all.
Even entering the coin door menu does no have any sound ,so I powered down and back on again and no sound at all no intro no speach(mute),also replaced the pi with a new extra I had in hand ,still nothing .
Any suggestions ?

Regards

#1685 9 months ago

Are you using a RPI3a+? As noted earlier, there is a bug and your symptoms are similar to what I have seen

Otherwise, autodetection is not working, you need to manually set to the correct machine (wpc or otherwise)

#1686 9 months ago
Quoted from Ashram56:

Are you using a RPI3a+? As noted earlier, there is a bug and your symptoms are similar to what I have seen
Otherwise, autodetection is not working, you need to manually set to the correct machine (wpc or otherwise)

Success!!
All is working perfect!!
Problem was after a lot of fiddling around when I entered the web ui I was at the audio device folder and when you press play on the play sound section it changes the audio device to Bluetooth and eq and no sound from the speakers!!
That is corrected.
Also the sound that was playing continuously on the back round was in the config (loop music )when set to false will only play the sound until another is triggered!!
So this board just rocks !!
My current setting is.
Sd card 32 gb.
Pi 3 A+.
1.34 zip pack
The only issue I haven’t configured still is why when I power up the machine the tilt audio board can be detected on the network and I can connect with web ui but after 5 min or so the network is gone and the tilt audio board is disconnected.
If I want to connect again to the till audio board I have to power down power up the pinball machine and after a min will connect and so on to disconnect again after a few min !!
Any clues !!
Regards

#1687 9 months ago
Quoted from JIMAKOST:

Success!!
All is working perfect!!
Problem was after a lot of fiddling around when I entered the web ui I was at the audio device folder and when you press play on the play sound section it changes the audio device to Bluetooth and eq and no sound from the speakers!!
That is corrected.
Also the sound that was playing continuously on the back round was in the config (loop music )when set to false will only play the sound until another is triggered!!
So this board just rocks !!
My current setting is.
Sd card 32 gb.
Pi 3 A+.
1.34 zip pack
The only issue I haven’t configured still is why when I power up the machine the tilt audio board can be detected on the network and I can connect with web ui but after 5 min or so the network is gone and the tilt audio board is disconnected.
If I want to connect again to the till audio board I have to power down power up the pinball machine and after a min will connect and so on to disconnect again after a few min !!
Any clues !!
Regards

WiFi issue fixed !!
As soon I updated to 1.37 zip ,WiFi is stable and not disconnected

#1688 9 months ago

OK, I've got my Tilt Audio board working pretty well in my Getaway. I downloaded a few different sound sets (most/all by Mr Tantrum) in the altsound format.
Started with the stock sounds. It works pretty well. Maybe a little adjustments needed, but to 95% of the players, they'd never know.
Then I went to his full ZZTop package, which is kind of what I had in mind, anyway. That sounds good, but the re-recording of the voices and more "ferrari" type of engine sounds isn't quite what I was looking for.
So I basically combined them, so I've got the stock voice callouts, stock engine sounds, but full ZZTop treatment. This is what I was looking for.
I've also dabbled with some fun personal mixes, but we won't get into that.

What I'm kind of stuck on is that sometimes when it goes up into the supercharger, the game goes silent for a moment. It quickly recovers and all is good, so it's not a deal breaker, but I'd like to find out what's going on there. I've contacted Mr Tantrum, because he seems to be the expert on all things Getaway, and he told me which sounds to look for (blast electric1-7) when it's in the supercharger. However, it seems like it only goes silent sometimes, other times, it's fine.
I noticed that his sound package was based on L-5, but I'm currently running L-2, so maybe the sound calls are a little different. I'm thinking maybe it's looking for a sound that isn't there.

I've played around with the logs, but they are so verbose that it's hard for me to tell what's going on. What's the best way for me to find this one "missing" sound/sounds in the logs? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Jeff

#1689 9 months ago

I just put the original sound board back into my TAF and had the end-of-ball flipper snap on the first round.
So I believe the snap is controlled by the sound board ...

The altsound sound set had some timing issues in the bonus count sequence as well - not sure what causes this, though.

1 week later
#1690 9 months ago
Quoted from williamsbg03:

Follow-up for anyone else who encounters the errors I saw, switching from Pi 4 to Pi 3B+ resolved the issues immediately.

Hi all, I am just starting down this path. I have the Tilt Audio board from Steve assembled by Charlie and ordered a Rasp Pi 4 4GB. Charlie has been very helpful, opening up to you all now.

Two questions:
1) Does the Tilt Audio board work with Rasp Pi 4? Using for WPC games, Getaway, etc.
2) If I have the Getaway files in a folder structure of files under sfx/, jingle/, music/, sfx/, voice/ can I just copy that folder structure to the data/sound folder?

Thanks for any and all help.

#1691 9 months ago

One night I left my machine running (3.6 Board), the little oled screen had flipped down (heat weakens that glue behind it and so now its held by blue painter tape) and my board was dead, but worked after replacing the fuse. Afterwards I noticed my audio had much more bass to it. Turns out my backbox speakers are not working since the fuse blew and Im only getting output to the cabinet speaker. I've tested the speakers with a different audio source and they are known working. The cables are fine via continuity and then i checked VDC between +an- on the output from the board to the backbox speakers and it shows 0 for both speakers, Im assuming the top amplifier board may be dead and just need to be replaced? Anything to check before I do that? Thanks

#1692 9 months ago

Also checked Topmost amplifier board and got no VDC on the Left +/- output and Right +/- output. The amp board does show 12v going to it when testing 12v to Ground at top of amp board.

Also do not believe it is software related as it doesnt play the boot sound in the backbox speakers either.

Also I have tried turning up and down the backbox speaker adjustment dial.

#1693 9 months ago
Quoted from JBBOPT:

Also checked Topmost amplifier board and got no VDC on the Left +/- output and Right +/- output. The amp board does show 12v going to it when testing 12v to Ground at top of amp board.
Also do not believe it is software related as it doesnt play the boot sound in the backbox speakers either.
Also I have tried turning up and down the backbox speaker adjustment dial.

You won't find DC on the speaker outputs unless something is really wrong.
Have you put the amp modules in sockets ?
Then you could try swapping them around and see if one of them is blown.

#1694 9 months ago

Bought board prebuilt, guessing not in sockets. The vdc setting actually worked for the cabinet output that’s currently working. Then didn’t work for the backbox output

#1695 9 months ago

Just wondering what my next test point would be on the amp board

#1696 9 months ago
Quoted from JBBOPT:

Just wondering what my next test point would be on the amp board

The meter probably averages the AC that is the audio signal to give a DC measurement.

The amp modules have SMD parts and aren't really serviceable and so cheap they aren't serviceworthy.
Better just to replace them if you suspect they are dead.

#1697 9 months ago

Ok I figured just want to make sure that’s the problem before I replace for no reason. only other way the backbox wouldn’t work and the cabinet does is if the backbox adjustment dial isn’t working (unlikely) because I don’t think the DAC would be working outputting for the cabinet properly and not the backbox

#1698 9 months ago

I would say if you are getting 12v to both amps, one plays sound and the other doesn't, then the amp is probably bad. The DAC outputs the same signal to both "channels" so there is no way the dac is bad. I suppose it could be the potentiometer or resistor (the only other two things after teh dac), but I doubt it. Have you tried to hook up a speaker to the amp output itself? That way you can make sure none of the traces from the amp to the board connecter aren't bad.

#1699 9 months ago

Cool I'll plan on replacing amp then and may solder on via sockets and pins. thanks! (No multimeter reading from +/- output from top AMP oputput which corresponds to backbox speakers)

#1700 9 months ago

Not proud of my clip job under the amp board after trying to desolder the connections on the top to get it off was
unsuccessful on a few spots, but I’ve soldered in a new amp board and the backbox speakers are working again.
Thanks all!

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