Quoted from cooked71:I think we need to re name this thread to "Alien: Resurrection".
As long as we don't re-theme the game!
(Topic ID: 190495)
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Quoted from Pimp77:Good to hear things are looking up...still a ways to go though.
I'll put it this way...I'm invested in this game and I was standing on a cliff with one foot on the ground and the other over the abyss about to bail. Now I've put that foot back down but I'm still near the edge.
Quoted from Manimal:I have been one of the biggest defenders of Heighway and I still am wanting this company to succeed. But with this last revelation, I am going to bow out and request a refund for now. It is probably the paranoid cop in me, but this really doesn't smell right to my nose. We have a person who won't identify themselves post that there is new company management, and a plan is going in place to save the company.....we are supposed to have faith in them, yet supposedly these investors have been involved all along.
So if that is the case, where was this "plan" as the company was failing, and where were these investors over the past several months? Why did it have to get to this point before anyone became interested?
This may very well all be legit, and I am not trying to sway anyone or start any crap. This is just my opinion and mine alone, but it appears to me like a group of people who realized too late they are going to lose their investment, so they are trying to calm the waters and keep money from bleeding out. If you really want people to believe you....identify yourselves, and tell us specifically what you are going to do and specifically what resources you are going to devote. This is all too vague, and something just isn't right......who just says we are signing "legal papers" and expects people to believe them? How are you going to get production going from here, and what experience do you have or are you bringing in?
Now before anyone digs up my old posts, I was very vocal about the fact that we as depositors are not shareholders, and we have no say in how the company is run. I still believe that.....but in this case, a representative is coming forward and offering information and asking all of us to believe them on blind faith. Yes, I know, a couple of people vouch for them, but I don't know those people either. I am not asking for any real insight into the company, but rather asking for information to determine the validity in who you are and what you are saying. In my eyes (and I completely understand I am the minority) you would have been better off not to disclose anything until the machines are running down the line. If they do (and I sincerely hope they do), then I will be right back in line to purchase, but even if the pins do come off the line, I want to know the company will be around long-term to provide support. For all I know, the "plan" could be to get production going just to get all of the produced and purchased parts out the door and then shut down and sell off.....I have nothing that says so, but it could very well happen. As they say in Shark Tank......for these reasons, I am out...... Good luck to the group, I hope this is 100% legit and this company comes back and kicks ass.........
What about the Heighway employees and contractors who have dealt/talked with these new people and are already vouching for them?
Quoted from Ballypinball:And they failed if they are current investors, you need new management and new investors with big pockets
How is this so hard to grasp..."they" weren't running the company, so "they" didn't fail. It seems pretty clear they were probably fed misinformation on the financial condition of the company...until it became obvious.
I think Alien will get built and shipped to all those who want one. What happens after that who knows. If you put a gun to my head I'd say they're done after Alien even with good intentions.
If I can get mine I still will. I'll worry about keeping it going on my own (and the help of the community...it's not rocket science making these things work). If you're shy about tearing into your own games I would probably avoid this title.
Quoted from Msch:When you figured out the timeline was going to be longer, did you lie to your customers and demand payment?
Can I see a copy of this email DEMANDING payment?
Quoted from toasterman04:This is my biggest concern. Although I love everything heighway pinball is attempting to do.... I find it extremely risky investing in one of thier games at the moment. Without knowing how long the company will last I am fearfull investing in a game where parts might be non existent in a couple years.
I'm going to repost my comment from the other thread since it seems relevant to your (and others) primary concerns.
This was in response to someone comparing these investors to JPOP's investors but I think it addresses your issue also:
"JPOP was NOWHERE NEAR this far along. A few tweaks (and a LOT of parts) and they should be able to start cranking these out. They have a FACTORY (JPOP...no factory). They have a fully (or nearly so) functioning machine with code! All they need is a little time and a lot of cash. I think they know EXACTLY where they sit on this which is why they decided to pull the trigger and go for it. Fully licensed and approved design; popular theme; a factory and enough people who do still want it. And you just know more will jump in if these really do start to roll out of the factory at a good clip."
Quoted from Strohz:This is what I received on 10/9/16:
Further to our email at the beginning of September, we are pleased to inform you that we have received approval from 20th Century Fox and it is full steam ahead for the commencement of Alien Pinball production!
As promised, please find attached the official game flyer. On Thursday 13th October 2016 at 9.15pm US CENTRAL time our new website will go live: http://www.heighwaypinball.com Here you will be able to see our brand new promo video for Alien Pinball, plus many high resolution photos of every angle of the game.
Payment
As previously advised and as per our payment terms, we now request you make your next payment; this can be as per the instalment agreement or if you wish you can pay in full.
Shipping upgrades can be purchased along with optional extras from our new website at 9.15pm US CENTRAL time on Thursday 13th October 2016 when it goes live.
In order to avoid fees and charges, we recommend making your next payments via bank transfer to our UK bank account:
**removed**
*PLEASE NOTE*
As a reference, It is important to put ‘Heighway Pinball’ first and then your full name. Without this information we cannot track your payment.
If possible, please email a receipt back to me; I shall issue you an order confirmation when payment is confirmed.
However if you wish to pay by Worldpay, I have set up the following link for you to make payment.
**Removed**
Or if you wish to pay by Paypal, please advise and I shall email you a Paypal Money Request instruction.
Exactly as I expected...a request for another installment is not a DEMAND for payment.
Quoted from TigerLaw:So, to get in new money a few weeks ago, they were offering people who paid in in full now (or a few weeks ago) to jump people that paid in in full last September when Andrew claimed production was starting in order to get you to send in money? Andrew had to know he wasn't going to be starting up the line even three weeks ago (he knew he needed a bail out then)...so the next person who would have called in would have likely been offered to jump you two...
That is just as dishonest as the DP guys and their alleged board delays when ARA stoped releasing the games. Worse in some regards, at least the DP guys had a big batch of games actually made and thy were scrambling to get the money to pay for them to be released (not get the money to pay for them AND build them).
I'm sorry for you guys that had money in on this project and have to deal with these people and their stories.
I was never offered "to jump the line" and I've only been in since March. I was never asked for any additional funds. And I've had multiple emails from Andrew and others at highway over that time frame.
Quoted from Rascal_H:It would be cool if there was a Pinside Confidence rating for each manufacture. Like a Pinside seal of approval for companies like Stern or Spooky and warnings for companies not meeting a certain standard. It seems like there was time where you could get thread ejected from Heighway topics for being critical... or at least pushed out by cheerleaders. Look where we are now. Pinside is a trusted resource by lots of people and maybe it's time the site takes a bigger role in protecting people's money. Not because they have to, but because it's the right thing to do.
Unless Pinside had inside information (always) this would be near impossible to accomplish.
Like Heighway. Old Heighway - bad. New Heighway - who knows?
Okay...we can now see that what was happening was getting pretty shady........but WTF does any of it have to do with the "Rebirth"? New people are taking over. I think we can at least hear them out before we totally shit on them. It might come to that...it might not.
Quoted from QuickSilverShelby:I posted this in the other Alien thread but I thought I would throw this out here.
Here's what I have a hard time understanding:
- Say there are 100 paid in full customers waiting for their game.
- 60 of them ask for their money back.
- So 60 x $6,500 = $390,000.
The new owners have to send $390,00 back and still they have to produce another 40 games at say $6,000 each so another $240,000.
That means the new owners would have to shell out at least $630,000 before they can even start to turn a single cent of profit.
They need to sort out the existing issues and spend hundred of thousands more for parts and labour to get new games done. Are these new owners willing to spend well over a million dollars to try and make this all happen?
I have a hard time understanding it but I hope they get it done.
QSS
Do you know for a fact 60 (fully paid) people have asked for a refund?
We don't know how much they are willing and able to throw at this. We don't know how much will be needed...we don't know. And guess what...we likely will never know. We will only know if it worked or not after the fact.
Quoted from Zitt:Not sure the right answer.
Don't get into pinball manufacturing unless you have deep enough pockets to produce games and then sell them...and also be able to survive a miss fire or two early on?
Quoted from MK6PIN:Highly, highly doubt that many ( too lazy to post in both threads).....sleep time....
I'm sure it's nowhere near that many. Most people are not fully paid.
Quoted from taylor34:It's somewhat hilarious how it works:
In normal life ( fictitious example):
friend: Jim, I found out that the mutual fund you're in is actually a ponzi scheme, they could fail if the market goes down.
Jim: THANK YOU!!!! I could have been wiped out. How can I ever repay you?
If only...
In real life it's the same everywhere. "Hey your mutual fund might be a big ponzi scheme". reply "What? No it's not, I've been getting huge returns for years...shut up and mind your own business".
Quoted from Aurich:Also, just as an FYI, I'm not reading any of the other Alien threads
probably a good idea.
Quoted from ZenTron:The incentive you get to not request a refund is a threat of a price increase. Nice!
People will be able to buy an Alien on the secondary market for the initial price or less if/when they get mass produced. What they should be doing is mentioning the price increase but also offer an incentive like free shipping to close the deal.
What they should do is build games and refund money.
Quoted from Toads:Once rebirthed they can.
They can what? Fuck us over and continue on like nothing happened? I don't think so. Not if they really want to be successful.
Good Lord people! Speculation, speculation, speculation.
I've decided I'm only going to pay attention to posts made by current investors and current employees of Heighway pinball.
EVERYTHING else is just speculation or shit that happened on the old watch.
Seems to me it doesn't really matter now what Andrew did or does. Andrew is out. All that matters now is what are the intentions and capabilities of the new owners? If they are willing to throw whatever funds are needed this could still work. Hell, we've all seen it work with JJP.
Alien is far enough along that MONEY can get it finished. Enough cash and this game will ship.
According to the last person to revive a game, he received a Production Game! Xeno fixed.
Quoted from Sonny_Jim:That's true, but should that money be yours? If their pockets are as deep as they say they are, refund those that want out, let them spend the time and money sorting out the niggles and relaunch with a fully working, ready to buy machine.
Never said or implied it should be with "our" money. Of course they should refund everyone who wants one. But...refunds are not going to happen today...or yesterday. Andrew is gone so he can't refund money. The paperwork on taking this whole thing over has not been signed yet so the new investors can't issue refunds yet. I's need to be dotted and T's crossed...then (and only then) can real shit start happening.
People demanding a refund NOW...well I think they're yelling into the wind. YES...request your refunds if you want out...but don't expect a response until the buyout is finalized.
And yes I realize the investors are making inquiries with those who have asked for refunds...I would do likewise if I was them.
BTW...the part about a price increase...that's going out to everyone, not just people asking for a refund. I think a price increase was inevitable given what the competition is doing; the timeframe involved with Alien's development and that these guys are trying to get this train back on the tracks.
Will they succeed? I have no effing clue and neither do you (by you I mean everyone).
Quoted from oyvindmo:Not nonsense. There are two different emails: one to those who requested a refund, and a different one to those who didn't.
Looks the same to me (I got one)...except for the part where they ask why the person want's to get out...which I would have done if I was them.
I am fully aware of the situation.
Quoted from stealthenight:you're talking like you know this firsthand as a fact. Do you work for Heighway or something or are you just speculating?
That the papers have not been signed yet? Well that did come straight from people who spoke directly to the new investors.
Quoted from jonesjb:Are people who put the deposit down getting the email, I haven't received it yet.
I just got one today...so they are trickling out.
Quoted from RobT:I have no doubt that you are.
But what you wrote...well, I still think ignoring all future posts on this subject by anyone other than Heighway or current investors is worthy of that picture!
Obviously I don't follow my own advice. 
Quoted from Pickle:Let's keep this simple. These new investors better have DEEP pockets. For arguments sake they need to assume all pre orders are refunded and need to be able to cover the rest of the production WITHOUT making any profit. They have to assume Alien is a loss financially but are looking at games 2, 3, and 4 to begin making a profit. If they are thinking they can raise prices and sell enough units to make a profit on Alien it is not gonna happen. The best they can hope to do is produce about 300 games over the next 2 years and not ask for a dime until a game is built and ready to ship. And in that time they have to win back trust of buyers and show they will have parts and support for their games. The fact is Alien still has some work to be ready for production so that could still mean several months before issues are fixed and production can begin.
How many startup companies can go 2-3 years without generating enough revenue to cover expenses......
I would question the business sense of the investors behind this because they will take an immediate loss and not have a chance for any return for 2-3 years.
The smart play is to get your money back now. If the company folds there will be NOTHING to get later. If they survive and produce the game you can buy it then.
No one wants to see this fail but we have seen this movie before and doesn't end well.
Congratulations, you win the prize for the most speculation in a single post.
Quoted from Aurich:When I came onboard this project Andrew and I would talk for sometimes hours every single day. By the end of things our relationship wasn't the best. Just how it worked out. Was a long ride.
Despite our differences the enthusiasm that he has for pinball and the Alien franchise never changed. He really did care, that was never in doubt. I wish him the best of luck. I'm sure he has a ton of mixed emotions about today. Whatever happens from here the game wouldn't exist without his passion.
He had a very big dream with some great concepts and obviously a lot of passion. Most startups fail. Doesn't mean it was a bad idea...just some underestimation on what things cost...especially what time costs. I think the concept was sound...we shall see.
I always pictured Andrew on Shark Tank....he would have come across super passionate and they would have really liked him....then they would have all ran of the set when he mentioned the margins.
Quoted from Aurich:This is part of why I've said to have a little patience, this has been complicated
Quoted from conester:I was planning on filing a claim with Paypal if I did not here back from them by the end of the weekend.
Quoted from sed6:How long until his name is stripped from the company? I'm surprised one or both parties are okay with the name remaining Heighway...
I could care less if they keep it or change it....as long as they ship games and provide support.
Quoted from DerGoetz:Where should I begin.....
Im at the pool with the family, typing and swiping on the cell phone. List short and definitely incomplete.
Lighting is too dark, ad more spots and lighting. This game looks terrible next to the competition. It is too dark stock.
Left GP bike. The hinge bolt does not match the hinge hole. Over time it wears, then seizes and locks and stopps working.
GP bike jump is too short, modified mechanism in order to allow the bike to wheelie, not just bounce
Buy Loctite and hand it out at the assembly line. When my Full Throttle was still working and mind me, it has been bricked and useless for over half a year now, the following simply feel apart:
Both flippers came off and fell into the cabinet
One of the platform screen mounting screws feel off
One pop fell apart
One LE wire came undone from the driver
The sound amplifier is unfit, it fell apart at the clamps and I replaced it out of pocket
The coin door controls came loose
Do not use foam in order to adjust height of the platfield screen. The foam loses its bounce, sets and then your screen pops up. If you do not catch that you will start having airballs and chipped screen
Adjust the wheels at the factory. Is that too much to ask
Had to adjust sensitivity on all three pops. Out if the box one of them fired 80% of the time, the other two hardly registered. Quality control
Two target at ramps create airballs. One so bad that your pinballs hit the platfield glass HARD
Software crashes at times when I open coin door
Shaker not implemented
Skillshot is terrible. Add a real narrow center spot that gives you added reward. Think some of the swing mechanics in Golf video games
Pops are way too weak and underwhelming
Same for flippers and slings. The setup is wimpy in comparison. I thought I had bought a racing game. This is powerless.
Implementation of the main toy, your rival drivers bust, is lackluster
But the worst is that I was not able to play in ages and that I have a 230 lbs brick of a Full Throttle LE right now
Sounds like you definitely got a lemon. Obviously they weren't all that bad...and yes a friend of mine had one.
Quoted from shaneo:May I suggest debugging the game via console session? You will need a micro serial cable (Compulab ship these with the Utilite's, else abt 5 bucks from the retail giants) and a Linux/ Win machine with a terminal emulator to do this. I use good old Screen but HyperTerm in Win will do the job. Settings need to be 115200 8n1.
From the console you will see exactly what is happening if the game boots/fails/blah blah. If you prove the Utilite is busted the you simply buy a new one from Compulab. It's an ARMv7 Cortex CPU with Neon architecture and it runs a Yocto compiled Linux kernel. There are also plenty of other ARMv7 units out there which can/could be made to work.
They are a good unit apart from the poor quality, easily busted uSD slot. They have dual LAN, dual HDMI, WiFi, Bluetooth, 1.2Ghz CPU, 4 GB ram, 5 USB and 2 serial ports. I use the original I busted as a media server now I can boot it from USB.
Tech ref manual http://www.compulab.co.il/utilite-computer/download/documentation/utilite/utilite-technical-reference-manual.pdf
If you prove that the uSD card slot is at fault then you can update the uBoot f/w and boot from USB or TTTP or an mSata drive. Have you checked the uSD card for errors? May be as simple as some file system repair commands. The image has some ext4 filesystems which mess up uSD cards. In your console session you will see errors like "Card did not respond to voltage select!"
If you cannot prove the fault then create bootable Ubuntu uSD and fire up the Utilite using the procedure here http://www.compulab.co.il/utilite-computer/wiki/index.php/Utilite_Linux_Installation_and_Update.
There are also plenty of other ARMv7 units out there which can/could be made to work if needed and surely the code owner could cross compile.
Get the console session happening and you'll be playing the game again in no time. Happy to assist if required.
I've also had a lot of teething problems with my FullT and perhaps it was a little ambitious for a new manufacturers first game, but engineers of Andrew's calibre don't design "ordinary"
When the game is playing well it is crazy good. Must have spent 4 hours playing it today until my arms hurt.
It's just "got the shots"
You've got to be kidding. He shouldn't have to do any of that... that's nuts.
Quoted from ezeltmann:The new promised delivery dates rely on the suppliers coming through.
Quoted from ezeltmann:It does bother me that they have already made a delivery promise of the 175 machines by end of august.
To me that's not a promise...more of a goal. Hope they get there but we all know they do not have control over the suppliers. Suppliers miss deadlines (or fuck up the order) all the time.
So we shouldn't take that goal as gospal.
Quoted from vid1900:What Homepin is talking about is a commercial game running hot, 16 to 24 hours a day.
When some CNC manufacturers started using "high reliability" PC boards in their machines, they found that after 4+ years, they would start having random faults (random = hard to track down). Every hour a CNC machine is down is cash bleeding out.
It often was the caps on the boards becoming flaky.
Then they switched to solid-electrolyte caps, but it's too soon to know if the caps were the entire problem, as you still have boards that are flaky and can't be serviced; only be swapped out.
So in my home it should last 4x as long (or more) and then I can swap it for $50 (or less)? Sounds good to me.
Just got a reply from Daniel (one of the investors). It was a pretty long email but one little snippet I'd like to share:
"If there are any people with non-functional games out there, please guide them to us. We should know about them all, but you never know. We need all the help we can get."
Quoted from Agent_Hero:Does that include the prototype boards and such? If so, Here I am!
Probably...but I would assume that machines that are actually down would take priority?
Quoted from Aurich:I'm wondering the same thing myself. Here it is, just turned noon on a Saturday, should be trying to relax, and instead I'm arguing with someone who keeps claiming I'm hiding things and feeling irritated.
I'm draining this thread for my own mental health, I just can't argue about this anymore, and I don't have the willpower to not read it if I don't drain, I know I'll just keep coming back to it.
Everything I've heard from the investors so far has stayed positive, I'm going to hope for the best, but they gotta do their job now. I'll work with them with anything they need, but I can't play forum QA guy anymore.
Well then we will miss your insights...but I understand.
Quoted from DerGoetz:In Homepins defense, his post was in reaction to the suggestion that I become a Utilite expert and do developer level deep diagnostics.
I believe that we all agree, Homepin included, that a simple swap would be the appropriate consumer level fix.
But what good is it as we just learned that the new generation Utilites fail as well.
This is a huge concern to me ad there seems to be no fix, only bandages
My take would be that Heighway can keep replacing them until they come up with a more reliable solution.
Quoted from SadSack:If they continue to do the same, I would expect more of the same results.
Well if by "continue to do the same" you mean "not ship games", then yes. I don't think the larger factory is the issue. If they get it maned and start shipping games they will be fine. People want this game and they will sell whatever they can ship for quite some time (couple years). Now if they want to keep the train going they will need a viable #3....and 4...and so on. (My guess is they already have plans for at least 3 & 4 but if they are smart we won't even hear about those until they are nearly ready to ship). I'm not convinced yet that they are that smart...for some reason manufacturers get stuck/confused about the "hype train".
1 week later
I love how everyone heard "new money" and expected the line to be cranked up to full speed 48hrs later.
This will take time...for everything...refunds, games, organized PR. These guys have run companies but not a pinball manufacturing company. They need to get comfortable with the Whole Picture and then plan a way forward. I'm sure some things look good and some things were a total cluster fuck. They are going to have to uncluster and then get organized, then get all the parts they need (which will also take time) and then hire a crew to actually build these things. Ain't happenin' tomorrow...but I think it will happen.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:I'm surprised they haven't chimed in to their own thread after promising frequent updates and to reveal a detailed business strategy. They should be able to announce the official name and structure now that everything is done, right? That would be a little bit of info. Announce when we'll get the business plan and strategy and structure.
I get the feeling that they want their actions to speak for them. Andrew posted a lot and everyone thought that was great...until it wasn't. I think they want to avoid any promises they might not be able to keep since in manufacturing you can not control everything....like when parts will arrive.
10 months later
Quoted from earflaps:Maybe...I mean, how is Heigway's machines any different that Bally/Williams, Capcom, Data East, Gottlieb...right? There's still a big market for those machines so I suppose it's just now up to people to get creative on how they keep Heigway's machines going. At least now the pinball community knows they're on their own with these machines and maybe some people will get busy with some great mods? Maybe this is a good thing...we finally get to turn the page on Heighway and start focusing on picking up where they left off.
I think it's pretty straight forward. If the community can figure out how to keep these games up and running then the value will go way up. If they can't then the value will crash. There is no inbetween.
Quoted from RobT:Based on what? Let me guess: because we have "canine" teeth?
Did I say we are carnivores? No...we are omnivores.
The best diet is a balanced one. Anytime you go extreme in any one direction it usually does not end well. We wouldn't have evolved the brains we have without a high protein diet.
Eat a salad, eat a steak, eat some veggies and fruit. Watch the carbs and especially the sugar.
Quoted from indypinhead:I must be doing something right....
My company will celebrate its' 19th anniversary this year.
Nice... mine is 33 this year.
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