(Topic ID: 190495)

Rebirth of Heighway Pinball


By HP_INVESTOR

2 years ago



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#251 2 years ago
Quoted from mnpinball:

New, Top Score or Cointaker ?

My understanding, not official answer, is Cointaker is the way to go. I know they've talked with new owners.

#252 2 years ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

Is the plan to Bankrupt Highway pinball and start new? Are the "new people" taking on the assets and liabilities of Highway or are they ditching the company and taking the assets? Many questions I would want answered at this point if I had money in here.

My understanding, not official answer, is they're keeping company going as is. But I'm not privy to the actual legalities etc. We've basically been told that things will just continue on, get Alien out, make that the focus, but they intend to keep making new games after it's stable. Same factory and people (plus whoever else they hire) as far as I know.

These guys are in it for the pinball.

After I see through Alien I'm done, I'm not an employee and will not become one (wouldn't take a pinball job with any company honestly, not an indictment on Heighway, I have a career). But if I had my own game now I'd have input into what's going on with the LCD screens still for instance.

Rest of US team will make their own calls for future work. Any game they work on will be lucky in my eyes.

Speaking purely for myself here, but if I was taking over the company I'd probably rebrand. New owners will have to make that call. But if they did that's just a name and logo, doesn't change anything else.

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#253 2 years ago
Quoted from HP_INVESTOR:

We are fully committed to making your games and we have the plan and finance in place to make this happen.
We have drawn up a detailed strategy to invest money into the company, both to ensure that machines are built to the highest quality and also to ensure that healthy numbers are shipped as quickly as possible.
The company will have new management, new leadership and new funding to make sure that everyone, who has money at stake, will get their ordered pinball machines.

I have spoken with the Roger who is leading the charge and he is determined to establish a viable production line and produce Alien and other pins as soon as possible. He understands and has planned to do the right thing to earn back the reputation needed to be a viable pinball manufacturer.

At some point the only thing that is going to convince people is a NIB Alien pin showing up at their house and at their distributor's warehouse. That is fine, that is the intention. Till then, thrash-on.

ddt

#254 2 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

These guys are in it for the pinball.

I believe most of what you have said recently - except this statement.
If they are good businessmen at all, they are now in it to protect their investment.

#255 2 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

At this point I'm reasonably confident that Alien gets made, but nothing about the new owners suggests they know how to run the business any better.

I would say no one has had a chance to evaluate their ability to run the business, they simply weren't running it before. All I know is these guys have business experience with running companies, they talk the language of project management, and they know how to organize spreadsheets and business plans and schedules with milestones etc.

One of the reasons I'm "back on board" is that I'm comfortable with that kind of project management environment from my professional life, when I hear that language it's a comfort zone.

Quoted from Cheeks:

If a 30 year old Bally/Williams game dies, there are people and ways to get it running. Honest question: what will be the case with a Heighway game if their company implodes? I've been really wanting an Alien with a Full Throttle kit, but the obvious inability to run a pinball business and numerous FT customers with non-functional games makes me really nervous to jump in, regardless of whether Alien makes it out the door.

Totally a fair question. I'd have to defer to Brian and Joe, but the heart of the system is essentially a Linux-powered off the shelf PC, so I can't imagine in a post-Heighway scenario that there isn't a way to get everything up and running again with new off the shelf hardware. There's no Pin2K Prism card or anything.

#256 2 years ago
Quoted from mountaingamer:

I believe most of what you have said recently - except this statement.
If they are good businessmen at all, they are now in it to protect their investment.

I said this before, but honestly at this point the 'smart' play would probably be to just write it all off and walk. Smart as in effort required vs return. It's only worth saving if you really care about seeing games being made.

So I personally believe that "love of pinball" is at least a large factor. There are just easier ways to make money!

#257 2 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I'd have to defer to Brian and Joe, but the heart of the system is essentially a Linux-powered off the shelf PC, so I can't imagine in a post-Heighway scenario that there isn't a way to get everything up and running again with new off the shelf hardware.

It would be nice if there were a parts list and/or manual. I'm wondering about those inductive switches. Where are those sourced?

So, new guys, add "parts list/manual" to your to do list...(right after you answer that guys urgent ramp question).

#258 2 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

There's no Pin2K Prism card or anything.

You realize that the PC doesn't directly drive coils or read switches, right? There's some proprietary electronics in-between, and if Heighway completely disappears then someone needs to reverse engineer those in the future.

#259 2 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

You realize that the PC doesn't directly drive coils or read switches, right? There's some proprietary electronics in-between, and if Heighway completely disappears then someone needs to reverse engineer those in the future.

Sure, I mean it's the same with any company right now, if Spooky or JJP or whoever vanishes the boards will have to be either reverse engineered or repaired. At worst it's probably some surface mounting component replacement though I would think.

Some day people will be figuring out how to fix Spike boards.

Not trying to handwave or dismiss, just saying it's the nature of pinball now, and I don't think there's anything there that's impossible.

#260 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

last thing...
I continually told everyone I know that they should wait to buy Aliens till they are shipping in force. Stupid to pay now when you can play one on route and wait for any initial bugs to get worked out.
If they wanted to get in to hold a spot (just could not wait), I encouraged them to only pay their 1k deposit and to pay via paypal backed through credit card. Smart to protect yourself if you are dumb enough to put down a deposit on ANY new game.

Yes, yes, you're right, everyone else is wrong, we get it. Just drop it already.

#261 2 years ago
Quoted from drinkduffbeers:

Cool. Hope things pan out for you to Russell

Cheers man. One way or another, I'll do just fine!

#262 2 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I would say no one has had a chance to evaluate their ability to run the business, they simply weren't running it before. All I know is these guys have business experience with running companies, they talk the language of project management, and they know how to organize spreadsheets and business plans and schedules with milestones etc.

Understood. I realize "they weren't in control" so I'm taking that at face value and just acknowledging we don't know if they know how to run a pinball business or not. Most people thought Andrew did until the wind started blowing on the house of cards. These guys may have all the answers, they may be worse than what's happened thus far, we just don't know yet. And at this point of Heighway, unknown is scary.

Quoted from Aurich:

Sure, I mean it's the same with any company right now, if Spooky or JJP or whoever vanishes the boards will have to be either reverse engineered or repaired. At worst it's probably some surface mounting component replacement though I would think.

This is the unfortunate reality of pinball these days, but at least in the case of the other boutiques, people don't feel the writing is on the wall with them. If any of them go away and your boards wet the bed, you're in trouble. But if you were to stake comfort on perceived company longevity and who'll be around to support their games, Heighway would be at the bottom these days.

#263 2 years ago

I wonder if Heighway plans on making Alien pin numbers beyond those currently locked in with a preorder? I ask because of this statement in the original post. It's probably good to be in the preorder queue:

"The company will have new management, new leadership and new funding to make sure that everyone, who has money at stake, will get their ordered pinball machines."

#264 2 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

To me, the biggest red flag is the number of DEAD Full Throttle machines.

How's that possible? I know it's been said by someone that Full Throttle is the best engineered pinball in history. So, that isn't the case?

#265 2 years ago
Quoted from daudioguy:

I have spoken with the Roger who is leading the charge and he is determined to establish a viable production line and produce Alien and other pins as soon as possible. He understands and has planned to do the right thing to earn back the reputation needed to be a viable pinball manufacturer.

I am sure Andrew was just as determined before reality kicked him in the nuts.

#266 2 years ago
Quoted from PoMC:

How's that possible? I know it's been said by someone that Full Throttle is the best engineered pinball in history. So, that isn't the case?

Are you here to just stir shit up? You're coming off sounding a little trollish.

FYI: I haven't had an issue w/my game. I have heard of 1 person with a pc issue of some sort making game unplayable and maybe another couple with some other issues with a switch. If there are 80-100+ games that's not bad. Pinball machines are mechanical and electronic with a steel ball flying around at high speed. Shit will break on every single machine eventually.

A legitimate, non-troll baiting question that has been asked already is about sourcing of parts if things do break.

#267 2 years ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

I wonder if Heighway plans on making Alien pin numbers beyond those currently locked in with a preorder?

Yes, 100% absolutely.

#268 2 years ago

I was advised a few weeks ago that something was going on with Heighway...that they were in trouble. Was kind of shocked frankly, as up until then I hadn't had the first clue that anything odd was going on. Maybe the buyers have been in a different position but I hadn't seen anything about it on here, so it was news to me. Come in after my days off today and see....this... wow..just wow.

How many times do we have to see this scenario play out guys? The only smart ones on either side of the aisle are the ones that are leaving the building with their money intact, or that have already recieved games (I guess this is debateable given the number of HP-specific parts that might be left in the lurch if it goes belly-up). The dream of "new pinball era of prosperity" is dead, dead DEAD. It's dead? IT'S DEAD! We've seen amateurs and professionals alike fail miserably for YEARS to get these companies off the grounds, and the pinball community, not them, are the ones repeatedly left holding the bag, aside from the first 10 guys to order. I only know what I'd do in this situation...get whatever money back ASAP and run for the hills...but I understand all too well the desire to own a game.

I really hope my friends that have a game on order get it. I really hope that this turns around. History, and recent history in particular, has shown that neither of these are at all likely to actually happen, and I'm a realist. It's time to wake up and smell the coffee on this one.....even if they get all current orders shipped and built what is the support life of these things going to be? How long will viable replacement parts be around? There won't be enough games in the wild to make reproducing anything a worthwhile venture financially.

Really sad to see this keep repeating ad infinitium.

#269 2 years ago
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

I think everyone here can agree that we all want to see Heighway pinball succeed. This announcement is exactly what we've been waiting to hear for some time now.
With that said, as a vested customer, there was no mention in that announcement about long-standing refund requests, or how that process will move forward.
So I am looking forward to actual direct contact with Heighway customers, and not being forced to search pinball forums for vague information.
This announcement is a good start. But more detailed information needs to be disclosed to your actual customers who have questions, and need some specific answers.
We are looking forward to your response, our games, and our refunds.

AGREED. After all of this, I would hope that at some point HP contacts all of us who have sent them money. If anything, just to confirm our orders and reassure us that our games are being built. I mean, I don't even have an active phone number to call and inquire.

#270 2 years ago

Honestly, I've been sitting around waiting for years for this pin to release. Before it was announced, I was hoping and dreaming of an Alien pin. While I hope it gets delivered by september, I don't think that's very likely. But, either way, my deposit is in and I am just going to let it ride. I don't see any need to get all worked up over any of this news, because I felt the same about the delivery date when Andrew was steering the ship. When Andrew originally announced the release date I laughed and said "I'll believe that when I see it", and when that date was missed and he gave a new one, I had the same reaction, and so on down through the line of missed dates.

Now, we don't have firm dates given to us, just the same vague promises that we had before. In my books, nothing has changed, and if the new investors want to give people confidence in the company, they will do one thing and one thing only: ship pins. Then when you've cleared up the backlog of people who want an Alien, and you have a FINALIZED product for your next game (so you can make real promises), then show it off, then start taking pre-orders and such. But above all else, get ready to ship a ton of Alien games, because once they are shipping within a few weeks of a new order, you'll have a lot of new orders. Most people just don't want to deal with waiting.

#271 2 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Andrew ASSured me and the crowd at his Expo session that he totally funded the Heighway Pinball biz from the money he made & banked as a route operator. No outside funding was ever going to be needed. Maybe not dollars, but GBP's...

interesting I was told differently (the money came from other previous business) a few years ago, lost faith in him a while ago. How many times an Aussie Distributor was going to be setup and then he kept changing and then he went silent. Even a few years ago his forum was sharing info and then things deleted and hidden and controlled alot more.

#272 2 years ago
Quoted from PoMC:

How's that possible? I know it's been said by someone that Full Throttle is the best engineered pinball in history. So, that isn't the case?

Remember, Woz is "the best built, highest quality pinball machine".

#273 2 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

How many times do we have to see this scenario play out guys? The only smart ones on either side of the aisle are the ones that are leaving the building with their money intact, or that have already recieved games (I guess this is debateable given the number of HP-specific parts that might be left in the lurch if it goes belly-up). The dream of "new pinball era of prosperity" is dead, dead DEAD. It's dead? IT'S DEAD!

"Zed's dead, baby. Zed's dead."

#274 2 years ago

I think Alien will get built and shipped to all those who want one. What happens after that who knows. If you put a gun to my head I'd say they're done after Alien even with good intentions.

If I can get mine I still will. I'll worry about keeping it going on my own (and the help of the community...it's not rocket science making these things work). If you're shy about tearing into your own games I would probably avoid this title.

#275 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

So what's your point? These guys are horrible and you're just slightly less horrible? You get off on pontificating about these guys' failures, yet you're not that different. Maybe these newbs don't know your story, but you were the Heighway/Dutch/Jpop of a decade ago.

I think his point is that he never spent any of his customers money. It all went into a trust. Sure, he made money off said money in interest, but whenever someone wanted out they got their money back painlessly and quickly. Not so with these other companies. Granted, his project did fail hilariously...but nobody got scammed.

#276 2 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

I was advised a few weeks ago that something was going on with Heighway...that they were in trouble. Was kind of shocked frankly, as up until then I hadn't had the first clue that anything odd was going on.

Are you kidding me? They've been in trouble since 2015 and have been fumbling toward obliteration since. The best thing that could have happened to Heighway is these dudes kicking out Andrew Heighway. I'd still be skeptical as F, but the company has a better chance now than it did previously.

25
#277 2 years ago

I feel nothing but respect for Andrew, and hope his passion continues with the Company.

It is hard, very hard, to wear all the hats in a company.

Each of us, has a skill and talent we bring to a job.
Being the boss, in theory means you need to be able to do all jobs....hence the shows like undercover boss,
showing successful companies, where the boss is out of touch with most of the lower labor levels of their own company!

Ive failed more than I succeeded and learned from each experience.

My respect comes from his tireless work, risks, sacrifice of self and family for this vision.

It goes without saying that Aurich, and each and every other worker and contributor put their heart and soul
for a game, I believe, more than just a paycheck.

Andrew fell short, he didnt win the race, but came close.

We are here today only because of him...good or bad, with the hopes that this new announcement will allow forward progress.

My apologies, if Im not one to look for blame, or revenge in this case, (Im not vested, so its simply a worthless opinion),
I look forward only positive.

I respect the opposite position as well....

#278 2 years ago

What assets are there to sell? Old machines that aren't worth shit, proprietary parts that are virtually worthless to anyone else.

My guess is they will make machines they wouldn't buy a business to sell off the assets.

#279 2 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

"Zed's dead, baby. Zed's dead."

More specifically I was referencing the line from Congo that you sometimes get when you drain. Gotta keep it relevant, ya know?

#280 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Are you kidding me? They've been in trouble since 2015 and have been fumbling toward obliteration since. The best thing that could have happened to Heighway is these dudes kicking out Andrew Heighway. I'd still be skeptical as F, but the company has a better chance now than it did previously.

I know I'm on here a lot dude, but seriously....I can't keep up with EVERYTHING. I'm trying to have a life outside of work and pinball the last two years. Like I have no freakin' clue what's going on with Nemo right now. You realize that in 2016, I was in Vegas playing Full Throttle right in front of Andrew at the trade show before Nationals? That's not screaming "THIS COMPANY IS SINKING!"...all I knew was that I didn't like the way it felt, so I didn't really keep up with all things HP. I played Aliens at TPF and didn't like the way it shot. So again...with no current product that I'm interested in owning...why would I keep up with them? Hell, the only reason I stay half-up on JJP is because they *SEEM* to be proving that they're able to produce games and get them out the doors, even as others are faceplanting left and right....I don't keep up with all the JJP drama though?

*Edit* Even barring all that, why on earth would I even joke about that? I know at least one guy that is waiting on an Alien LE. I had a lot of hope for some of the things Heighway was doing even if their layouts weren't my bag. You have any idea how much I'd kill for all my games to have removeable flipper mechs? LOL. When I shopped Farfalla before TPF and saw how easily their flippers come off the playfield, leaving only the shaft to drop through, I swear to god I about cried tears of joy.

11
#281 2 years ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

Ive failed more than I succeeded and learned from each experience.

When you're doing it on your own dime, it's commendable.

When you're doing it with other people's money, it's a problem.

-5
#282 2 years ago

This company is still circling the drain. They just got an extra flush.

#283 2 years ago

True.

But the great majority of businesses are started with other peoples money.
...and the majority of those fail leaving nothing.

Funding of a business, the legal status here of corporations, ease of bankruptcy is the problem.
Not meaning to be political or taking a position of politic, but simply an example, our current President, was elected for his business expertise, yet he was part of 4 bankruptcies.

Im sorry I dont follow your logic as fraud, etc are the problem. Not failure, nor trying, regardless of the source of funding.

I realize it hurts personally. I get it.

Ive lost close to 6 figures in adjusted funds from bankruptcies and fraud.

I respect that if Andrew has put you personally in a difficult situation, the emotions and views will feel as you do Nibbles,
and am fine if you feel differently then I do about Andrew.

#284 2 years ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

I feel nothing but respect for Andrew, and hope his passion continues with the Company.

Didnt Andrew tell customers their games were being build and they had to pay in full to get them shipped - which was a total lie? And did he screw over cointaker getting him to release funds but no games? Gotta say I feel the opposite and hope the new management / owners act nothing like him going forward.

-6
#285 2 years ago
Quoted from mountaingamer:

Didnt Andrew tell customers their games were being build and they had to pay in full to get them shipped - which was a total lie? And did he screw over cointaker getting him to release funds but no games? Gotta say I feel the opposite and hope the new management / owners act nothing like him going forward.

Don't call Andrew a liar or you'll get the swift hand of moderation

#286 2 years ago
Quoted from Msch:

Don't call Andrew a liar or you'll get the swift hand of moderation

Why?
He is just stating a fact.

#287 2 years ago

Yes, and Im not here to defend him our make excuses for him.

Of course, he could have handled communication better, and sure, if you see all his work as a lie, or some lies, thats fine too.

An example in simplicity.

I created several prototype LED products. Some I shared the proto images, video, or details of.
I was excited.
I told people 4 weeks. then it became 8, then longer. I never released it.
It had issues. 80% success doesnt agree with Retail customers.

I received lots of email......when will they be ready...and Id answer 4 weeks, or 6 etc.
After a month or two, the emails turned into those calling me a liar, fraud, etc....its quite easy to do so.
It hurt, but yes, I did not take any money or ask, so I respect how you feel.

I got to know Andrew a bit personally, and from this aspect I simply shared my feelings......how I feel.

I have carefully worded my post to share that these are my feelings, and with the understanding of others
who feel differently. Simply put, I respect if you feel differently.

Im not going to debate my feelings with others, and I hope that you can respect mine even if you disagree.

#288 2 years ago

Sorry to all who feel I'm coming across negative - best of luck to all involved.

#289 2 years ago
Quoted from Toads:

Why?
He is just stating a fact.

Because I got a thread eject and moderation notice for stating the same thing

#290 2 years ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

Yes, and Im not here to defend him our make excuses for him.
Of course, he could have handled communication better, and sure, if you see all his work as a lie, or some lies, thats fine too.
An example in simplicity.
I created several prototype LED products. Some I shared the proto images, video, or details of.
I was excited.
I told people 4 weeks. then it became 8, then longer. I never released it.
It had issues. 80% success doesnt agree with Retail customers.
I received lots of email......when will they be ready...and Id answer 4 weeks, or 6 etc.
After a month or two, the emails turned into those calling me a liar, fraud, etc....its quite easy to do so.
It hurt, but yes, I did not take any money or ask, so I respect how you feel.
I got to know Andrew a bit personally, and from this aspect I simply shared my feelings......how I feel.
I have carefully worded my post to share that these are my feelings, and with the understanding of others
who feel differently. Simply put, I respect if you feel differently.
Im not going to debate my feelings with others, and I hope that you can respect mine even if you disagree.

When you figured out the timeline was going to be longer, did you lie to your customers and demand payment?

#291 2 years ago
Quoted from Msch:

When you figured out the timeline was going to be longer, did you lie to your customers and demand payment?

The only thing OLDPINGUY did wrong was to advertise it before it was complete. A lesson learned.
Different story with Heighway Pinball Mark1.

#292 2 years ago

Im looking to get out. Have machine in hand.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/for-sale-alien-1#post-3802023

#293 2 years ago

You were a very nice dude when I met you years ago
Good luck on your future endeavors

image (resized).jpeg

#294 2 years ago

I hope this everything goes smoothly and production can start flowing SOON. I'm paid in full on a standard, had been told I'd be in the first 20... I hope a production update will happen very soon, I'd like to be able to tell the location owner and players there what "coming soon" actually means.

#295 2 years ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

Are you here to just stir shit up? You're coming off sounding a little trollish.
FYI: I haven't had an issue w/my game. I have heard of 1 person with a pc issue of some sort making game unplayable and maybe another couple with some other issues with a switch. If there are 80-100+ games that's not bad. Pinball machines are mechanical and electronic with a steel ball flying around at high speed. Shit will break on every single machine eventually.
A legitimate, non-troll baiting question that has been asked already is about sourcing of parts if things do break.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/full-throttle-club-enjoy-the-adrenaline/page/11#post-3348446

That's where I heard, "Without a question the FullT is the BEST engineered, designed, and built game of any of them."

The next few pages of that thread are complaints about failures, errors and lack of customer support for Full Throttle. I've tried to play FT at shows and in a private home and they've been broken every time with one owner again complaining that he's waiting to hear from HWP to get it fixed.

Every single Alien pin that has been sold does not work 100% and the lack of support is again well documented by the owners.

#296 2 years ago
Quoted from PoMC:

The next few pages of that thread are complaints about failures, errors and lack of customer support for Full Throttle.

That's horseshit and a misrepresentation. There are a handful of people that for the most part have normal everyday pinball issues and were looking for answers. Many found those answers, some did not--especially lately. The person with the cpu problem is probably pissed to be sure.

Quoted from PoMC:

I've tried to play FT at shows and in a private home and they've been broken every time with one owner again complaining that he's waiting to hear from HWP to get it fixed.

That sounds like a lie, but if it's not you've had some bad luck I guess.

I've had the game a year and the only issue I had was a plunger tip that broke. Other than that, it all works. I updated the software when they released an update...all normal pinball stuff. I've talked to tech support via email a few times with questions and they always got back fast.

It's OBVIOUS to everyone now that they started having response issues recently and anybody that needed customer service was getting ignored. That sucks and it's wrong.

I can speak for my game and my game only. It's built like a tank. It plays GREAT. It's the fastest game I own. The playfield is beautiful, the side art lit up is awesome. I love it. I was looking forward to swapping in many titles in the future. Hopefully that will still happen. If it doesn't I'll be as bummed as anyone.

You are on some sort of vendetta I guess? Do you have fun kicking someone when they are down? As far as I can tell you have ZERO skin in this game and are only on this thread to be negative, no offense

Good day sir. I SAID GOOD DAY!

PS It's just pinball...it's supposed to be fun. Don't be a fun sucker, fun suckers suck.

#298 2 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

You realize that the PC doesn't directly drive coils or read switches, right? There's some proprietary electronics in-between, and if Heighway completely disappears then someone needs to reverse engineer those in the future.

Just send a board to jabdoa and you'll probably have it in a weekend. Reference: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/announcing-stern-spike-support-for-the-mission-pinball-framework

#300 2 years ago
Quoted from Msch:

When you figured out the timeline was going to be longer, did you lie to your customers and demand payment?

Can I see a copy of this email DEMANDING payment?

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