I just think it would have been mega groovy awesome cool if the Cabinets were made in the countries that games
were being shipped and that the playfield was shipped from the UK as a slapped in item.

After these last couple of years, I can imagine Fox sending out a memo instructing everyone in the licensing department to hang up as soon as anyone not calling from Stern utters the word 'pinball'.

I am talking from memory, not by checking actual records, but to my knowledge the only respectable pinsider who was permanently banned from the Heighway thread was Mr68, and that was *not* because he revealed nasty secrets. (Kim is a friend of mine... sorry Kim)

The few other accounts that were banned and their post deleted were made by duplicate or suspicious accounts created for this purpose.

Dup accounts are not allowed, period.
Someone has something to say on Pinside... use a regular account. Don't hide behind a fake ID.

Yes, Helmut almost always replies promptly to my service related emails. However, as I stated earlier, I think his hands are tied when it comes to sending out any spare/replacement parts. ...that's when I get radio silence. Like all of you, I hope new management works to resolve these issues promptly.

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The ironic thing about Mr68's post is that he tried to sound a warning flag and got 17 downvotes and then 35 downvotes in later posts.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/alien-pinball-official-game-thread/page/141#post-3301083

People were trying to help and got blasted for it. And then people blasted the anonymous group for not spilling the beans on predator sooner, same thing would have happened to them if they had.

Thanks for the trip down memory lane. Unfortunately most of us were wearing rose colored glasses at that time. You only hear what you want to hear I guess. I thought everything was going fine, especially when I saw the photos from Expo.

Stir it up bra

It's somewhat hilarious how it works:

In normal life ( fictitious example):

friend: Jim, I found out that the mutual fund you're in is actually a ponzi scheme, they could fail if the market goes down.
Jim: THANK YOU!!!! I could have been wiped out. How can I ever repay you?

In pinball ( fictitious example):
friend: Jim, I found out that the company you preordered that pinball machine from has major financial issues, they aren't paying suppliers and you may not get your game.
Jim: GO TO ?!&!!!! Stop making up viscous rumors, what do you know? Have you actually seen these bills? No? So stop with your lies.

That's the way it works, lol.

Pinside: Sure sure, but is it related to a movie I like from my childhood?
Jim: Ponzi schemes don;t work like that...they aren't based on themes. It's not like Trading Places or an..
Pinside: Trading places? SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONIES!!!

Nah, make the games first. I want my pin and I want it before any refunds are given. Forget those people who have bailed. I bet they continue to ignore refund requests, make and ship a bunch of pins, and then get back to refund requestors with "we can ship your Alien today or issue you a refund, your choice".

Sometimes, things HAVE to be revealed anonymously. Look at all the foibles being revealed about our Trump administration over here in the U.S. Very important that this information be made public, without danger of incrimination; else the flow of information stops. Pinside beats up people who reveal things that might be unpopular, hence the anonymity.

We're going on 5 Star Wars games from 4.5 different manufacturers now(*), although not all may be licensed... In the case of Alien, since the game is basically done, the best approach would be what is happening now - purchasing the remains of Heighway and getting the license and current game along with it.

(*) Empire Strikes Back from Hankin, Star Wars from Sonic, Star Wars from Data East, Star Wars episode 1 from WMS, Star Wars from Stern (formerly Data East)

Nah, make the [existing] games [work 100%] first. *I* want my pin [to work 100%] and *I* want it before any refunds are given [or new games are made]. Forget those people who have bailed [or are paid in full]. *I* bet they continue to ignore refund requests, [or] make and ship a bunch of pins....'cause it's all about me.

Well now that I'm thinking about it, I seem to recall something that Kim was in a confrontation with Aurich at Expo around that time, and I just assumed it was all pinsider drama & paid little attention to any of it. In fact, I recall thinking all that info was strange because I've bought pins from Kim in the past & got the impression that he was a really nice helpful guy.

The mob mentality also helped to discredit legitimate concerns. Again no need to rehash old wounds, it is what it is now.

If only...

In real life it's the same everywhere. "Hey your mutual fund might be a big ponzi scheme". reply "What? No it's not, I've been getting huge returns for years...shut up and mind your own business".

If I look at what that disgruntled ex-employee said, they claimed Alien would never be finished and no customer would get a game. Had their words been taken more seriously, the "run on the bank" would have happened far earlier, and the company would not have finished Alien.

Where we are today is with a finished game, with enough potential that outside investors are trying to make a go of it. I'd say customers' money is in better shape "today" than it would have been if the company got beaten up earlier.

Obviously we'll have to see what happens in the coming months, but if all pre-orders are delivered on and Alien mass produced, then Heighway received a bail out just as many other pinball companies have.

Apples to Oranges....Mr68 posted a web screen of financial ratings, not the same thing as "Hi, guys I contacted Fox's attorney and they told us Kulek doesn't have a licence !!!!"

Hang in there man. Appreciate anything you can do to help them through the transition.

Seems like a risky approach unless they are able to get machines shipping fast. If it takes several months and they choose to continue to ignore the customers requesting refunds or parts/repairs, the narrative of this company would likely continue to be very toxic.

Thanks. All I can do is say "hey, the team hopes everyone gives these guys a chance, after all this wait why not see how they do?"

The ball is in their court otherwise. I'll be as antsy as anyone else if after a few weeks we don't see actual measurable progress. Nothing can get fixed overnight, but words only count for so much.

F'in NAILED it!

People can read the disgruntled ex-employee's words and make their own decisions... at least they would have an alternate source of info outside of Heighway himself, who apparently has lied repeatedly. Also, failing earlier would have resulted in much less debt than the company is suffering now, possibly making it EASIER to get the game to production.

Deception is never a good business strategy in the long run.

BLUF: Many people tried, and failed.

There were also a lot of knowledgable long time collectors with connections all over the industry and hobby with experience exceeding 30+ years or more that provided the same information intelligently and clearly without ranting.
Many industry leaders simply steer clear of these types of situations entirely, including designers, that bailed on Heighway early.
They were all described on these forums as simply wanting to "sabotage the success of Heighway".
The fanboy company shills decided to run them off this site, or they simply said "$#!@ it, let them get burned" and left.
Most of the fanboys need to issue public apologies, like "The Korn" did to Gene Cunningham with IPB BBB back in 2007 for their incredulous behavior and attempting to control threads.

The same aspects were reported with problems with Retro Pinball LLC, JJP, Skit-B, Zidware, and others that most here don't remember.
People need to understand the realities of this industry or continue play russian roulette with their income.
Some people do try to provide honest feedback and information to help others.

The validity of the future of this company is far from secure.
Monetary refunds are not "checks in the mail", yet, for those that still want out.
Right now the only Alien machines out there are a handful of prototype games that were used to attempt to promote Alien investment capital marketing that took nearly two years, but people remained firmly in denial.
"The Alien game is in production! The Alien game is shipping!"
There is no production line, and there never was commercial production, as it never was officially started.
Two people turning a screwdriver is not a production line.
The entire company built LESS than 150 games in FIVE years between two titles.
That is not the definition of a successful pinball company.
The CEO lied over two dozen times in that period, and some things were plain outright ridiculous which made most experienced manufacturers, designers, technicians, and collectors go, "What?"
The most ludicrous was he was going to producing 1000s of games a year in that tiny little warehouse (even after he expanded) with practically no staff including 3-4 titles a year?

Believing anything regarding the intent of investors is not a constitution of knowing how to manufacture games.
Money and enthusiastic investors does not save companies, a strong support team with manufacturing experience does.
This is the same mistake that Heighway and other have made repeatedly with "I know how to do it better."
"Hope is not a method."

The name of this thread should be called, "The Rebuilding of Heighway Pinball", not rebirth, as the manufacturer was never on firm financial, construction, licensing, or resource footing since the beginning.
Technically, in my opinion, they should also change the name of the company to anything else, as this might give some additional boost of credibility in the future, when the next generation of potential pinball owners do not remember what happened in 2017 with multiple boutique manufacturers. It has been less than a decade since the last set of failures.

The wheels of the bus go round and round.

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Did they end up posting such information in other forums? I saw the one rgp heighway post. Links would be interesting and perhaps helpful reminders for the next time similar smoke starts wafting around a future project.

BLUF: Pinball history continues to rhyme.

Some did (beyond the "angry former employee" posts), but posts were deleted from multiple forums for the same reasons or overridden moderator control as being "negative" and were improperly censored. Others simply deleted their information to avoid controversy.
Anyone that has been around a while in this hobby knew the signs of problems over 3 years ago from this company, and steered clear or got the $#!@ out.
There is a certain reliance for survival on ignorance of new potential owners to NOT know when there are issues with manufacturers, otherwise some companies would go under even faster.
There were plenty of discussions offline were potential owners could be warned, but when a person is starry eyed and tone deaf it is quite hard to either see the signs or hear properly.

The whole having hindsight is bull#$!@.
This makes it sounds like this is the first time it has ever happened.
On the contrary, multiple times in the past 90 years in pinball, but new manufacturers do not want to learn from the mistakes of other companies or overestimate their capabilities.
Even companies that were profitable, did not survive, or chose to bow out for reasons not related to poor management and make the right decision.
New potential game owners don't take the time to understand pinball history.
Those that chose not to want to read, because they think history is worthless, learn nothing.

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I have to admit, I am skipping through most of the conflict posts, but this quote is damn funny!

I'm skipping through this whole thread. Here I thought the other Alien thread was full of pointless banter about nothing, but this one is on a whole different level.

This rebirth thread needs to be aborted...we need a re-rebirth once there is some factual info from the new mgmt. This thread is pointless as is...red meat for already angry people. Bickering about how people rate games for christsakes. Re-relitigating everything for the past 4 years trying to blame someone.

Here you go
Build quality is Damn good in my opinion but see for yourself
Hope this helps

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So one of your friends sends me a PM telling me I can have an extra pass of his, I can't find him, or get in contact with him, and this means I was scamming him? I offered to pay for the pass, but he turned me down.

I guess the main reason I have a problem with your Hype train is that you over hype and really bias the true condition of games. Like that funhouse I bought, you said it was great deal and a great machine. Cold solder joints, cracked ramps, broken divert. Its like you refuse to say anything negative about a pin your friends own. All to help drive the price up and scam someone out of $$$.

You butt in line for these proto games and flaunt how amazing they are when you get them, when they really arn't good enough to make it to production. You think I have a thing for Wooly, I just like how easy it is to point out how absurd you are with that game. Hiding the $3200 BOM items like its some giant secret that the world must never uncover about that part that is semi hard to find.

After reading through this topic, it seems most people here agree with me. You are a pinball hipster. Any game that is loved, but not a hidden le gem title that people don't normally know, you hate. . Best selling game? pffft, you only like games that they made 16 of and you have two of them.

Its also nice of you to support spooky pinball. You sure seem to have made thousands off of scalping their "unique" games to people who didn't buy in to spooky years in advance.

Thank you far taking the time to post these - very helpful.

No problem

How different is yours? Man, the underside of these heighway games is a thing of beauty.

Its funny, whysnow can hash it out after an innocent comment after learning about how he gets his in with the various startups, but if I fight back its too much for him.

No need for PM's whysnow, not going to respond to you.

I feel like the minority here especially since I have not invested money into a Heighway game but I wish the best for Heighway Pinball and Andrew personally. I met Andrew about 2 years ago at Pintastic and the whole system is really innovative and creative. His passion for creating not just great games but the innovation aspect really caught my eye.

I'm more than confident that this will all work out in the end like JJP story. That WOZ game is Jacks baby and I think he took a loss on it a bit but has made up for it since then. He has pizza parties at his panels (not necessary but that is how he is) and now they are shipping their 3rd game which is a huge seller with game 4 and 5 on the way.

Thread title change

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Would it be too much to ask that the whysnow show be taken to another thread?

We're all trying to figure out what's up with our time and money and it's frankly irritating as sh*t to have to scroll past tons of posts about who rates pinball machines a 1 or whatever other stupidity. No one cares. Hilton, please just stop responding, if you want to help Alien that's what you can do to help right now.

Actual update:

Legal paperwork is moving along we've been told. Let's call it next few days, anything with lawyers always takes longer than it should. Hell, call it this week. But it's moving along, and this is good. This is a very necessary process. Genuine public updates can't really happen until everything is signed.

We've been told the investors intend to try and personally reach out to everyone with money involved. It's going to take a bit to do everyone, I'm sure you all can appreciate these probably won't be 2 minute calls so only so many that can be done a day. So hang tight if you haven't been contacted yet.

Let's be honest here, they're going to try and stem the bleeding and people backing out, as they should, but it's an opportunity get straight answers direct from the source, so take advantage of it, I know I would.

I'm hearing good news about getting things organized at the factory too. Again, nothing will be instant, but I'm personally glad to hear good news about production management. That's where the rubber meets the road. Words can maybe buy a little time with me, with you, but I think we all agree games shipping is the only real answer.

Do you know one way or the other whether the investors will be seeking more money from people that are already paid in full?

I have a deposit in, and since I rarely answer unknown numbers; just an email with whatever details they can provide would go a long way.. Some status updates as they get a grasp on timelines and such would be great as well.

What? Like a price increase on top of already being paid up? No, I've heard nothing of the sort, and I highly doubt that would happen. Not an official answer, but I'm pretty comfortable saying no to that one, I had a pretty blunt money talk and I'm sure that would have come up.

It also makes no sense, why punish people who've paid, and probably panic and drive out the others?

I hope the f ing idiot lawyers don't blow this up. Oh wait, yep I'm one and I can easily see it happening, although, this transaction is fairly simple, it's A or B.

A "original investors" hit the bricks and write off the loss

B They jump in with both feet and start rocking and rolling. Can't imagine Andrew's lawyers would hold anything up.

Pretty sure the "investors" know what they are in for and they are ready to rock.

I'm anxious to see what's up and ready to give them a chance. Love the pin, love the theme.

Emails are being sent out to pre owners.
Check your in boxes

I'm sure once people are talking to them info will spread quickly. And if I were them I'd be talking to the people who are paid all in over the deposit people first, that's just logical.

Sounds like Toads is already seeing some kind of email, I don't know anything about it, but good news.

No email for me yet. I have deposit down since day 1. Patiently waiting

-Jeff

Paid in full since Mar '17 and no email yet as well. Toad, can you share the text/ email message if it is applicable to the rest of us?

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/alien-refund-from-patient-supporter-to-angry-x-customer

Check here

Just to follow up on this, I've seen the email and it said the following:

Due to increased production cost of Alien since the game was initially announced we want you to know there is a price increase planned in the near future – however, as a pre-order customer you are still entitled to the price you got when placing your pre-order.

So there you have it, no extra money if you're in already.

Not pushing anyone to pre-order, but if you want to get ahead of whatever that price increase is I'm pretty sure deposits with Cointaker are gonna be safe regardless of the outcome, they've covered people with the Dutch Pinball mess already.

I think the email is only for those that are thinking about bailing?

I too have had a deposit down since day 1 Jeff.

I'm chilling out, drinking a few beers and watching the shit storm play itself out

When the dust settles, hopefully these guys will "ramp up" production. If they do, they will sell a ton of these Alien pins.

Everybody has to decide for themselves whatever they want to do.

Btw, thankfully, this isn't DP, they have ZERO chance of ever doing a f ing thing.