Just put Meteor 2021 code in mine. WOW. Made a good game great.

I'll give that a shot. Tried everything else, the wax on the wood, different rubber ring sizes/thicknesses, the Swinks targets, even stronger springs in it now (not so strong that they cause any problems with the bank resetting) but didn't really see a noticeable improvement from any of that except the Swinks did lessen it. Thanks!

Try weaker springs.

Move the entire mech housing closer to the flippers.

How would weaker springs improve it? They would drop even slower (?)

I thought about trying to move the bank down a little but when the targets are up they are already only a hair away from touching the front edge of the slot so didn't seem like it would have a significant effect. Maybe pushed down enough it would have the same effect as bending the ledges though.

My theory with the ledge bending is that any downward pull in the target will negate the bounce back onto the shelf.
The ones in my mystic still can brick but there's a different drop in the center that one is the worst but clearly a different plastic.

Because you’ve tried everything else. At this point, I’d be willing to try anything if I were you. .

Early SS is my favorite era as well. But I buy lots of new games because it keeps my wife interested and it's really financially safe (if not profitable) as long as you have the spending money to begin with. And of course I love new games too, but my sweet spot is that whole Heavy Metal Magazine art vibe and spinners and saucers and drops and approachable rules of '80s pinball.

Great game. Get it!

Awesome. FG is a classic and a strong contender for Best single ball game ever, imo.

I am mid-swap on a friend of mines and I can't wait to put the first 100 games or so on it before I call him to tell him it is done!

The first hundred games, huh? Well, that should only take about 20 minutes.

FG is a butt kicker, very difficult game. As of late, it's been my go-to pin. It will make you a better player (eventually, lol). I think you made a good call! It's a very popular title too, shouldn't be hard to sell if you decide it's not your cup of tea. Good luck with it, and welcome to the addiction--errm *hobby*!!

Game play wise Barracora is possibly my favorite from the time. Adding the new ROMs for updated scoring that are floating around does help. Paragon, EBD, Fathom and Centaur are also really good. Don't forget Stern used the same boards as Bally basically. Meteor, Nine Ball, etc. Gottlieb Alien Star is similar to some of the Williams/Bally at the time and a fantastic shooter. Devil's Dare is a really under rated Gottlieb wide body from way back when.

Who knew?!? I just did a playfield swap/hardtop for my Flash Gordon. All of a sudden, I’m getting this brick thing with one drop target. Thought i was going nuts. Glad to see this post and looking forward to checking it out more.

By the way, Flash Gordon is my go-to fav game. Owned one for years, got stupid and sold it and then a few back, I picked up another. Been fixing it since. Tend to Bally pins, although BK and some other Williams were pretty great too.

Nice thread.

I know that feeling.

Not to beat a dead horse here, but yeah… you could not be more incorrect about Stern drops. The whole bank drops when someone in the room sneezes. They are nearly perfect.

80's Gottlieb

As someone with Stern pins I can't agree with this, you do get bricking time to time but more so with the new replacement drops.

Cool. Thanks!

I'm a gameplayer, so cabinet makes no different to me.

Sounds like a setup issue to me…

I owned that one. It’s a pain in the butt to get to the connectors behind the displays to take the head off for travel. So if you’re not moving it much, not a big deal. But I'll never own that cabinet type again.

Nah. Troubleshooting is fine. It’s easy to get to all the boards, and I don’t think the tough to access connector causes many issues. Purely a transport headache

Loving this thread but...

Whatever you buy, and particularly if you start a collection of machines of this age...

Make SURE you have a path to getting them repaired.

Maybe your path is YOU, but I can assure you, it's a very good idea to have someone you can call, someone who can come to your home and look at any problems you encounter when the problem is a little harder than you can personally figure out.

All of these machines were made with original connectors that were good for 35 insertion/removal cycles, and then the connector (pins and plugs) was supposed to be replaced. Vibration alone compromises the connectors in these machines.

The boards are available! WHOOT for Alltek! Whoot for Yoppsicles! (The intermittent nature of the lamp sockets in games of this age has to be experienced to be believed...) But the plugs to the new boards are problematic. The other stuff in the game is problematic.

The amount of work that I'm finding necessary to create a fully no-more-unreliable-than-any-other-pinball starts with the 36 pages of recommended fixes on the Pinwiki... and so, I generally won't sell these machines (as much as I love them!)

Because the amount of work it takes to get them reliable isn't worth the price difference between what I can buy the machine for, and what I can (rationally) sell the machine for.

Two years ago I said that I wouldn't be buying any machines of this age except for KISS... because you can sell a KISS pinball at a price that justifies the work. (Of course, I've broken that 'rule' a couple of times... these machines are too much fun!)

So, follow what you love! Get the machines that make you happy!

Try to buy machines that have already been properly gone through.

Make SURE you have someone to call when things go wrong.

Until a lot of work has been done, don't expect perfect reliability... these machines were designed with planned obsolescence in mind. Machines that were working three years after they were sold were a 'pain in the ass' from the manufacturer's standpoint, and kept operators from buying a new machine every three years, so they were intentionally designed to have a lifespan that would start having difficult-to-repair problems. They were also made to a price point, not a quality standard.

When you have problems, post your difficulties here and people will help you fix your machines.

Good luck!

Yes. To transport the game. You risk damaging the neck/backbox by leaving it on.

I like Bally for how easy to work on they are. A lot of their games have a great feel. That said, eventually you start to notice how the rules on a lot of Bally's are pretty samey. I've converted to the Classic Stern bandwagon. It's the same Bally boardset repair wise, but with more interesting layouts and rulesets (and some stinkers)

Williams have some great sounds, and a few of the games are top notch, but there's a lot more "whatever" to me games than certified hot bangers.

Gottlieb did some pretty wild stuff too, but I don't like dealing with their games.

There are some great Gottlieb games (Mars, Pink Panther, Panthera, Haunted House, Volcano, Devils Dare, Black Hole) but they are a PITA to work on

Not sure why I keep hearing this about gottliebs. If you repin connectors and rebuild the boards, you’re good to go just like Ballys, Williams and sterns.

Repinning the connectors is the PITA part

Depends on the condition and age. I would say 10.

Goes just as smooth as the other games once I got practice. But either way, it’s never fun on any game.

It's actually a great question about which brand had the best components for reliability/quality. Unfortunately from my point of view, reliability breaks down mostly by generation. (Gottlieb and Data East are a separate discussion).

The 77-85 models (Bally or Stern) are pretty darned unreliable nowadays until restored. This is where your heart is, and with good reason. Great gameplay you can't get any other way than on one of these machines.

The '6803' Bally pinballs - well, let's just not talk about them. (shudders)

The system 3-8 machines (77-84) are repairable, but not greatly reliable.

The 'System 11 age' model Bally/Williams (85-90) are much, much, much, better built, and the WPC's (90-99) are quite a bit better made yet.

The reason there are so many machines from this era that are so highly regarded is not only because of the design and the speed, they are also pinballs that you could mostly reliably find in working condition. Being able to actually play a good, working machine is really important to the eventual standing of the machine in the top 100 list. (Exceptions, always exceptions, Haunted House and Black Hole...)

There is considerable variation in the difficulty of keeping machines repaired depending upon how much play the machine has received.

Thus an Eight Ball Deluxe is generally quite hard to get in great condition because it stayed on the route longer, had more different technicians of various quality doing repairs (to really mess something up requires a technician), and just got a lot more wear and tear due to the thousands more plays on the average Eight Ball Deluxe vs. an average Stern Dracula, or some other lesser title from the same generation.

As to having three to make sure one is playable... Hehe. I don't think it's that bad!

Once you've gotten the most problematic things worked out, these machines can provide years of reliable service in your home.

What is the threshold for the number of pinballs versus a manageable amount of service?

Well, how much play are they receiving is a very strong consideration.

We have a local pinball bar. Around 30 pinballs, almost all of the new Sterns, almost all of the Pinside top 10 of the top 100 list. A small scattering of other quality machines. My friend Matthew does the service there.

Every Wednesday, he drives to the location, and spends all day working on the pinballs.

Then he returns every Friday morning with the parts he found he needed, and does further work, at least half a day on Friday. Sometimes all day Friday.

A day and a half of skilled serviceperson time every week to keep about 30 pinballs in good operating condition in front of the public.

Commercial operation is a whole different level of pinball breakage, and that's why I'm a home pinball seller, not a commercial pinball seller.

In your home? Well, I'm hoping most of my customers with 1-6 pinballs are calling me when they have problems, and I have very few customers call me every year. Mostly they have a problem, it takes a service call (or three...) to get resolved, and then I don't hear from them for another couple of years.

With more than six pinballs, I would say that unless you don't turn them on and play them at all, at any given time there will be some small problem that needs attention at any given time. It may be a lamp socket that occasionally doesn't light up, a mechanical problem that doesn't work perfectly, a general illumination connector that is browning as it bakes itself until the lamps no longer light.

Small things, that you could let slide until you have a couple of issues, and then spend an hour or two to fix things up.

I personally haven't managed a collection of more than six that didn't have something less than perfect operation (light bulb burning out) for more than a couple of months. Perfection is attainable... it won't last for a long time.

If you can live with rubber that has become slightly dusty and doesn't have quite the grip it did when fresh, if you can live with an occasional light bulb not lighting until you get a chance to look at it, if you can live with a switch on a fast loop that registers 19 times out of twenty, but not when the ball is perfectly insanely fast... You can have a great room full of great machines.

If everything has to be perfect, you can spend a lot of time chasing perfection.

(shrugs)

It sounds to me like you are going to get some great machines, and have a great time.

No, the head is flush against the cabinet. I've moved mine a few times with the head on and never really had a problem as long as you are careful and it is secured properly. If you are going up or down steps on a dolly though I would remove it to be safe. That said, there are not many connectors in these games and they are all keyed, so there are a few to remove, but it only takes a few minutes.

You tell me ha, here's a pic of my classic/system 11 side of the basement. I would rather have the "regular" one, but the LE is the same game and about $1K+ less in cost for you. Also, mine fits under a beam in my basement where another pin wouldn't, so it let me squeeze one more into the lineup. It's not as cool looking but it's cheaper and plays the same. If its the game you like and not the cabinet, jump on it.

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I don't care for the LE cabs personally. They just turn me off visually. That's a real personal preference thing, but these games aren't so rare that you should settle if you don't like it.

EBD is one of those games that I had trouble keeping. Play-wise it's great, but the theme just didn't work for me. Too cowboy'd up. It was in a lineup with Mystic, Medusa, and Flash Gordon so you can kinda see how it was the odd one out. All about what works for you though.

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Of those 4 games I'd own Flash Gordon and Mystic again, skip the other two.

If you want "classic pinball" take a good look at Taxi. It's really one of the "pure pinball" games for me.

I have an EBD LE. I've grown to appreciate aspects of that cabinet. That said, I have a new repro glass for the normal cabinet. Just need a donor cabinet for the right price to walk through the door...

Great line up of that era!

I have had an Amazing Spider-Man for 25 years. I put in a Pasqual board and never looked back. Really fun game play, if the game is dialed in.
Art is great. Mine is like new, so I ended up with one of those playfield protectors on mine. So far, so good. The two flipper thing isn’t that bad. Once in a while you can drop one in between the two, but if you’re paying attention, it’s not bad at all.

I have Star Race and Circus currently, owned Black Hole and Spiderman, repined them all and rarely had problems afterwards. I enjoy the art, quirky sounds and simplicity of play which for me is what originally attracted me to pins. I could step up play 2-4 games and know exactly what I needed to do to get a replay.

The early SS games are the pinnacle of pinball IMO. Gameplay, theme, artwork, sounds. They really are the total package. You're really splitting hairs when deciding between Stern, Bally & Williams titles from that era (and even the criminally underrated Gottliebs for that matter). My favorites that I've been lucky enough to play:

BALLY: Centaur, Fathom, Mystic, Flash Gordon, Embryon, Nitro Ground Shaker, Harlem Globetrotters, Skateball, Viking
STERN: Quicksilver, Nine Ball, Star Gazer, Catacomb, Cheetah, Dragonfist, Big Game, Ali
WILLIAMS: Barracora, Cosmic Gunfight, Warlok, Defender, Solar Fire, Time Fantasy
GOTTLIEB: Alien Star, Countdown, Punk, Eclipse, Striker, Black Hole, Devils Dare

Good luck finding some of these, let alone finding them available for purchase

In my general opinion, here's how I summarize them:
BALLY: Incredible artwork
STERN: Incredible gameplay
WILLIAMS: Incredible sounds
GOTTLIEB: Incredible parts

They may come & go through your collection since there are so many incredible titles across all the manufactures, but the Sterns never leave. They're just too good IMO.

You picked a really good one for a first game. It's going to kick your ass, it's a brutal game, but that's the appeal, has that "one more try" factor. You won't get bored from mastering it any time soon.