(Topic ID: 35619)

Is MM always #1? Reality check on rankings


By ovfdfireman

7 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 65 posts
  • 42 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by markmon
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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There are 65 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 7 years ago
Quoted from RTS:

I understand the price should have no bearing on the fun. But it kind of does.

Disagree completely. We aren't trying to determine the best bang for your buck/dollar value, we're simply rating them to see which game is best.
Price should be ignored completely.

#52 7 years ago

I agree with the concept that rankings help you sort out some of the mediocre pins from the good ones in terms of seeking out the games you will like, but whether or not a pin is "good" is very subjective.

Some people like short players, some people like playing long games. Some people like open playfields and others like them full of ramps and gadgets. There's no "right" or "wrong" answer.

When you add that to the fact that people manipulate the rankings for invalid reasons (they want the pins they own to be ranked higher, they want to sell a game and therefore want the ranking to increase, they unfairly give low ranks to games they haven't really played enought to rank)you end up with an unreliable data pool anyway.

The pinball players I talk to in the real world never seem to have problem with the concept of each person having equally valid reasons for liking certain pins the best. I think the collector market tends to get lost in the ether sometimes.

#53 7 years ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

I didn't say it was a fact. It's my opinion. Most comments on here are, no?
And I'd be open to hearing anyone explain how Indiana Jones is rated higher than Tron and AC/DC.
Especially if you can also explain why IJ isn't worth as much.

Depending on how you phrase your opinions yes.

As for the second part; IJ is better than both of those game on a physical, tactile, technological, gameplay, ruleset levels. That's why it's rated higher. Tron is an awesome game, ACDC is crap.
Some more "facts" to throw on the fire.

#54 7 years ago
Quoted from MikeS:

I just wonder whether a game like TZ or TAF could be ranked #1 more often than MM?-

As a percentage of games made or just raw frequency? There are 15K and 20K of those titles vs 4400. We all know the homer factor will come into play and that it's hard to admit that something somebody else has is better than what you have. I know you are above that, Mike.

#55 7 years ago

Its hard to quantify fun. Most games I play I have fun, a lot of fun. There is something unique about each game. Yes, some games I have more fun than others but did I have 10 percent more fun, 25 percent more? That's where it starts to get tricky

Also, most everyone that owns games starts to get into a collector mentality and artwork, music, theme, rairity become important to long term enjoyment of the game.

So based on having a fun time playing the game, mm is on par with others I have played but add in the cool theme, humor and artwork; these are the tangable aspects that push the game higher in the raitings

#56 7 years ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

As per some of my other posts, if you had put an AC/DC or Tron beside an MM way back when, I think it would have blown MM away with the LEDs, sounds, etc. Nothing against MM, but generally speaking, the older pins don't hold up to the newer ones in reality

STRONGLY DISAGREE

I have my restored MM with LEDs, Flipper Fidelity Speakers, and a ColorDmd next to my X-men and my non Pinheads guests the other day thought it was the newer pin because of the ColorDmd. Nothing has changed technology wise when you can add mods and can get a B/W to look and play the same as a NIB Stern.

#57 7 years ago

MM is fantastic but I have learned I prefer the newer games most.

#58 7 years ago
Quoted from system11:

Last time there was a worthy contender a certain element of the community couldn't cope with it challenging the established titles, and it was heavily trollvoted. The rankings are useless.

Quoted from davewtf:

Robin throws out the outliers from what i understand.

Lemme guess.... Tron LE ? I remember that and I believe at the time Robin was not throwing out "troll reviews" which is why there started to be some more strict guidelines on the ranking system.

IMO the top games are - Tron/MM/MB/ACDC (in any order you would like)

#59 7 years ago
Quoted from davewtf:

As a percentage of games made or just raw frequency? There are 15K and 20K of those titles vs 4400. We all know the homer factor will come into play and that it's hard to admit that something somebody else has is better than what you have. I know you are above that, Mike.

Dave, you know me better than that I like MM a lot, but it's no LOTR or TZ... and I'm not just saying that because I own them.-and don't own MM. If LOTR was super rare and sold for $15K, I would still find a way to own one because I just like the game that much more than MM and the price would be worth it for me. It's as simple as that.

Now onto your question:
I would like to see both raw frequency and also which % of the overall rankings rated the game number 1 on their list. For example, If there are 901 ratings for MM and 200 of these raters ranked it #1 on their lists that would give it a score of 22%. If there are 1011 ratings of TZ and 201 of these raters ranked it #1 it would give it a score of 19.8%. If there are 16 ratings of Avengers and 4 of these raters ranked it as their #1 game it would have a score of 25%, etc. etc. It's just a different way of looking at the data. It's not scientific or anything and is just for fun.

Under the "Various views" option on the site it would be cool to have another column besides "most wished" and "most owned" to also reflect "most commonly voted #1" as another view. I realize this would discriminate against newer games with less rankings since it's just working with raw numbers, but it's cool to see nonetheless.

#60 7 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

PLEASE SPEAK FOR YOURSELF!!!
MM is my favorite pin ever. Bar none. Period.
Why do you even say that most MM owners won't tell you that it is hands down their favorite? How the hell do you think it got to be the number 1 rated pin? Hint: because a hell of a lot of people have it as their favorite, or at least very close to it!

I hear you, and I am only speaking from the people I know, and asked the question "what is your favorite pin?". MM just is not the consistent answer. But am definately not discounting that it is many peoples favorite, it's a top five for me, it used to be my favorite, just not anymore. My wife just said it is here favorite. My 10 year olds fav is champ pub and my 11 years olds fav is MM. So it's 50/50 in our house and none of them have seen the rankings. It's definately a great game

#61 7 years ago

TZ was just number 1 a week ago or something like that. So it does get bumped down from time to time.

#62 7 years ago

I really like it and own it. I have only rated one pin a 10, TZ.
I think of it like Top 40 vs the "greatest 100 rock songs of all time"
Both are relevant.
Modern Sterns are the current Top 40, some of them will end up being classics and some will not.
MM and the likes are the proverbial top 100 Stairway to Heaven and Freebirds of pinball, but there is always room for some Rush, Metallica and Van Halen in the list.

#63 7 years ago
Quoted from jimjim66:

STRONGLY DISAGREE
I have my restored MM with LEDs, Flipper Fidelity Speakers, and a ColorDmd next to my X-men and my non Pinheads guests the other day thought it was the newer pin because of the ColorDmd. Nothing has changed technology wise when you can add mods and can get a B/W to look and play the same as a NIB Stern.

Exactly. I've had the same experience, my non pinhead friends are very surprised when I tell them how much difference there is in terms of age between Tron/ACDC and MM/MB.

#64 7 years ago
Quoted from coasterguy:

MM is fantastic but I have learned I prefer the newer games most.

Is that why they last about 5 weeks?

#65 7 years ago
Quoted from davewtf:

NO. We are given 100 points and can adjust them between 1 & 10 within a given rating category. I can't place enough emphasis on the two categories i deem most important (fun & lastability) to get the data *exactly* right. I don't go back and fudge other numbers to get the right final number as that compromises the data.

You nailed the problem exactly. If we could move these things around as we see fit then the ratings would look very different.

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