Alien (Ellen Ripley Version)
Pinball Brothers, 2023
Asteroid Annie and the Aliens
Gottlieb, 1980
Bad Cats
Williams, 1989
Bad Girls
Gottlieb, 1988
Barb Wire
Gottlieb, 1996
Black Rose
Bally, 1992
Cheetah
Stern Electronics, 1980
Diamond Lady
Gottlieb, 1988You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider treybo69.
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My wife loves our Dolly Parton and I’ve heard some other women squeal in joy when I roll it through the door of a location.
I’m a strong advocate for a WAP pinball. Business be damned! You don’t know what people will buy if something like it is never offered.
Quoted from beelzeboob:Yep. Themes are mostly geared toward middle-aged men for a reason. Nostalgia and cash - both of which grown-up children usually have in spades.
I think the manufacturers are filling the gender gap with games where female characters can be picked at the start (as mentioned above with POTC). I know that women almost always go with Leia when they start a game of Star Wars in my house, so there's something to that theory.
But I also think of TNA as a "female" game because of the main character and because the game's color scheme is predominantly purple/pink and even has female callouts. That game is definitely NOT a "male" game (with the exception of blowing shit up!).
TNA is great. A heroine on the backglass (or anti-hero I guess). Extremely rare for there to be a woman starring on the backglass that is in a position of power. Also it’s not like a Barbwire trying to have it both ways, power and male gaze.
Quoted from Tomass:I take it you have never run a business?
It’s called sarcasm you goof
Quoted from Xenon75:So all of you who want these themes:
- start a business
- secure the license
- open the factory
- hire the employees
- source the parts
- build the game
- get licensing signoff
- go through compliance testing
- market the game and let us play it.
That is what is so awesome about this country, you can do it yourselves! Don't rely on another company to change their business model to make what you want. If you think there is a gap in the market, fill it. Be a disruptor and do it yourself.
Do you really think this is a meaningful contribution?
What is it about some guys in this hobby that act like this when people ask for some more variety.
“But business!!!!” they yell while their knees shake at the thought of someone wanting some non-comic, non-dad-rock theme
Quoted from Jamesays:This may not be popular either but are only old white guys open game here or can we shit on other groups and have that be acceptable.
Who’s shitting on them? They do great work.
It’s not controversial to notice the decision makers are largely older white men. And when Stern only picks themes their design team is passionate about, the only themes that will be made are mostly going to be ones that appeal to them
Quoted from pinlink:Well yeah, don't you think these businesses making pinball machines should care about....their..business? Or no?
Maybe you're right, they should put the success of their business aside and make a Barbi pinball machine that would probably bankrupt thier business because a few people say they want it.
Why do the fans care so much? It’s not your business
And you don’t know what people will buy if it’s never offered. It’s that simple
Quoted from Jamesays:My point exactly its not acceptable to dish on any group
But no one was shitting on them?
Pointing out that it's mostly white guys in charge of picking and designing the themes is not shitting on anyone. It's a simple observation.
Quoted from dung:You aren't going to have a meaningful number of women on the business end unless you have a meaningful number interested in the product to begin with. This screams of wanting diversity for the sake of diversity. No one is excluding women from pinball, but you can't force it on people just because you want it that way.
Pinball is not very welcoming to women. It's not overtly hostile to them, but it's hard to argue that men aren't the ones being catered to. At a certain point, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Quoted from Jamesays:I am not having any touble finding titles My family enjoys.Wonder Woman may have a decent chance of success.
Maybe Heart but that may be too late.
ok?
But that has nothing to do with pointing out it's mostly white men in charge of picking and choosing themes.
I get it. You're satisfied. I don't get why people pointing out the lack of diversity in themes or the people who make them is troubling to you. No one is saying anything ugly about them. You're getting defensive about something for unclear reasons.
Why do the fans care so much about how much money Stern makes or sales potential of a theme? It's not their problem to deal with and Stern doesn't need them to defend the company choices. Some of us just want something a little more different. That's all.
Quoted from dung:Only one of a dozen idiots on this forum that somehow thing I am going to give two shits that someone uses 4th grade level insults.
For fun, did go ask my gf why she doesn't want to buy pinball machines.
"Because I'd rather spend the money on something else."
What do you think of a Barbie themed game?
"That's stupid and would put off a lot of women."
How about Golden Girls?
*Quizical look*
Sailor Moon?
*Chortles*It would appeal to fans of mad max fury road and if the new movie does well, fans of that. I don't think it hurts anything. I just don't see it proving a market for women. I'd love a furiousa themed pin and I am a guy.
Only spent over a decade trying to interest every girl I date in this hobby. Locally we have 1 girl who is both an excellent top tier tournament player and an amazing tech. I know of 0 other women who will repair games in the area. I know of just about every guy trying to get his S/O involved in this hobby. But yes, tell me how I have no experience in this matter.
Also, do not put words in my mouth troll. I said women are not into this. That has nothing to do with them being lazy or incompetent. I haven't known a single 20 something woman who wants to show up to a strangers door with several thousand in cash. The think I am an idiot for doing so. It is an excellent way to get robbed. They don't do that because they don't want to get murdered.
Maybe because there are so few games that appeal to women....
Quoted from grantopia:The number of men speaking for women in this thread is also excellent at proving my point. A bunch of dudes letting us all know what women think and what they are interested in. There is nothing that would suggest any of these things are true aside from your preexisting views of women.
And again, if the "women are scared of the pinball men" point doesn't give you pause for self-reflection, then well, again, can't help ya.
That or they name dumb themes that, in their minds, women must surely like enough to want to spend several grand on. And then shit on those themes because they purposefully picked a dumb theme to begin with. Like no shit grown women don't want a Polly Pocket Pinball.
Quoted from vid1900:We just have to face the facts, that some hobbies are simply more appealing to one sex than the other.
NOT because it's a "boys club" or a "girls club", just because that's how it is.
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Let's take Astronomy. We have 700+ registered members in our club, two are female (that does not mean that other females don't come out to observe occasionally, but they are not due paying members).
A friend of mine has owned a custom telescope factory for 30 years. He says ZERO females have ever bought a telescope, except explicitly as a gift for their son or husband.
There is nothing **sexist** about astronomy or telescopes that I can think of, but it's just not a hobby generally perused by women.
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Or the Audiophile hobby. Women have better hearing than men, so you would think that they would naturally gravitate towards great sound systems or headphone rigs. Nope. Go to any Audio swap meet, or Head-Fi convention; not a single unaccompanied female (and I've attended them all over the world).
There is nothing **sexist** the Audiophile hobby that I can think of, but it's just not a hobby generally perused by women.
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Or Model Rocketry. 80 members in our club, and not a single female on the club's roster. A decade ago, one guys daughter was really building some nice, high altitude units. Once she hit ~15, she lost interest completely. Her dad said she is just into other things, but still loves Star Trek.
There is nothing **sexist** the Model Rocketry hobby that I can think of, but it's just not a hobby generally perused by women.
-[quoted image]
I think this is true but also ignores how relatively few women are encouraged to pursue STEM fields in general and some of the resistance they may face.
It only takes one spoiled apple to ruin the bunch
I know I'm not the only one with a significant other that has had a bad time because one random dude wants to slide next to her playing a game and start explaining things like it's her first time to see a pinball machine. It's annoying and frustrating for her. I don't blame her for being done with shows in general.
Quoted from vid1900:Yes, but even without the male intimidation, pinball just does not interest the vast majority of women.
My 22yo niece has been babysitting my house for the past year. She's pretty good at pinball (been playing since she was a kid). She has 50 perfectly restored games available to her and she says she has not turned on any of them while I was gone. She has played a few games of Galaga.
Or I built a Sexy Girl for the local strip bar a few years back. Simple rules, fast, good for beginners. The owner says none of the strippers ever play it, unless a male patron puts some dollars in for both of them to play.
They'd rather sit staring into space (no cellphones are allowed while at work) than play pinball, lol. [quoted image]
You had me for a second with your niece but lost me with the stripper example lol
Come on. There’s a lot of reasons why they probably don’t want anything to do with that.
Quoted from Pmedic871:If a woman enjoys pinball enough to consider buying one, she will. I think it's simplistic to think a theme targeted for a female audience will suddenly entice her into being an owner if she wasn't in that category to start with.
I agree with you, I don’t want to get too reductive. There are a lot of women out there with a myriad of interests.
Yet we all agree theme alone can sell a game. There are few themes appealing to a wide female audience
Also it’s important for location play too. Someone brought up TNA earlier. Yeah it’s a great game with fun lights and music, an approachable rule set for all skills, etc. but a strong female character on the backglass is going to stand out to some women who are trying to decide what they might want to play.
The hobby needs more women players in general. Once that base is bigger, the number of women interested in buying a game goes up with it.
Quoted from Grandnational007:I don't disagree with you, but why does anything NEED more women or men involved BY FORCE?
Is pinball not a free market for people to play at their own choosing?
I've been involved in these discussions here before, but maybe I'm just too oblivious to see all the "PINBALL HATES WOMEN!!!" signs that a select few parrot here constantly.
I guess I'm spoiled here in New England that every time I play at the various popular locations or attend shows, all people, of all colors, persuasions, and walks of life seem to get along great and have a good time playing pinball. Are there more white men in attendance? Yes, but it's about as representative as the general population in this area is.
I guess I just don't like the idea of people being FORCED to do anything.
I am not trying to come across as hostile, or single you out in anyway.
That's cool.
I'm not forcing anyone to do anything but maybe critically think a little harder about why women are into some stuff and men into other, and why some things cross over. I'm interested in the topic.
I love pinball and want more people to enjoy it. Theme is the gateway drug, so it matters a lot in terms of expanding the hobby. The more people in the hobby, the healthier the hobby.
Quoted from dung:What really bugs the shit out of these kinds of *include* everyone discussions is that no one can ever accept that the sexes are wired, differently. Not better. Not worse. Just differently. There has to be some over arching reason, some unjust situation, that leads to an inequality. Why can't it just be, because maybe they think we are a bunch of idiots buying overpriced boxes of lights?
Sure they're different. There is a theory that some men enjoy creating/building/repairing things more than some women because they can't give birth and it's a manifestation of that urge to create.
There are a million other reasons besides biological differences for that as well. Gender is a biological and social construct. Men and women are raised and treated differently and it manifests everywhere. Some of it is unjust and some of it is what it is.
I just really like pinball. I want other men and women to understand why these overprices boxes of lights are worth wasting money on to me. I want to know why they don't feel that way and what would tempt them. I think theme is a really important part of that.
Quoted from jcg9998:To say that pinball has always been geared toward men and that there aren't games geared toward women is almost too ignorant to be believed. Much like the way history is taught today in schools (not at all or revisionist history), most people know nothing about the history of pinball. The history of pinball is loaded with games with not only female characters (which literally had females on about 3/4 of the games even if many were designed for men) but female themes as well. The game simply does not appeal to many women. Period. Just look at a few of the themes in just my personal collection and tell me they are not designed for women...
How about C.O.D.... is department store shopping female enough for you?
How about Crossword puzzles? No female ever tries them either, right?
How about Jigsaw puzzles? No females do those either I suppose?
How about Alice in Wonderland? There have been several of those along with many other fairytales...
Don't bother wasting your time telling me that they should try it now and that was a long time ago. Trying female themes went of for decades after the machines I've showed you here were made.
How about a nice pretty peacock from the 40's, real masculine theme... wouldn't you say...?
You can find literally hundreds of games geared toward women in the history of pinball. It's been tried over and over again. It hasn't worked. I suggest doing a little research before coming on here screaming for diversity. You might actually learn something.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Sure they used to make some pinball art that was more targeted towards women. They also made more racist art and someone like Dave Christensen was sneaking in nazi references into his art. Pinball art has definitely changed in many ways
But the point is there are very few games like those now. They're generally not on location to play, not easily available for purchase, and are frankly irrelevant to modern audiences.
I love pinball history...but pointing to ancient games does not do a lot for the conversation about what is going on now.
If the boomers just want to rant about SJW virtue signaling (while ironically signaling their own virtues), then whatever. Don’t expand the hobby
I’ll buy your pins off your widows and ex wives for cheap because she doesn’t give a fuck about those games nor do most under 50 year olds.
Like it or not, people like myself are the future of the hobby.
Quoted from Tomass:I'm under 50 and you're just wrong. Sorry.
Wrong about what? Time in linear and I’m younger than most of the farts in this thread by decades.
Quoted from swampfire:Oh good, let’s morph this into an ageism thread. /s
I have nothing against older people. Some of them just suck like some people my age suck.
It’s basic math that I’ll outlive most of them and reap the rewards of their LE collection that no one cares about when they pass on
Quoted from Rarehero:I actually wouldn’t be surprised if there are few if any boomers in here. My parents are boomers & can barely use their smartphones. I think someone called me a boomer in this thread lol ...I guess is it just an insult for anyone perceived to be older than you?
Yeah and millennials like myself call the generation below us zoomers
I know it’s more Gen X than boomers here, but slang is what it is
Also you know it drives some crazy that they’re being compared to their parents
Quoted from cait001:browsing through the thread and ignoring the off-topic pieces, themes that I think would be exceptionally strong as industry choices AND appeal to women:
Metroid
Mad Max w/Furiosa as the protagonist
Tomb Raider
Wonder Woman (classic would be my preference since I didn't like the 2nd Gadot movie, but whatever)
BlackPink vs BTS (if there was a chance of pinball getting picked up by South Korea, this is the theme that would do it)
Alice in Wonderland (goddamnit Popadiuk was on to something there...)
Pokemon (nothing to do with women, but strong demographics)
Some good ones here. I’ll add Dolly Parton, Power Puff Girls, Resident Evil perhaps, and Kill Bill off the top of my head. Some of these even have male fans shockedpickachuface.jpg
Quoted from Tomass:Yep and they already lived in times much better than most will see going forward.
Well then why did they fuck it up for us? My generation is only now coming of age to be responsible for anything.
Quoted from cait001:Kill Bill + Resident Evil would 100% be viable. I don't see Power Puff Girls as a viable franchise for a modern company, unless there's some kind of successful reboot out there.
Dolly Parton would absolutely sell, given her mythic status in American pop culture and dynamite catalogue. I just wouldn't want Stern to handle it, given what they did to poor ol' Primus.
PPG is maybe a reach, but they did reboot it. It’s in that sweet spot of 90s nostalgia that a lot of upcoming titles are going to be targeting. (So many great Nicktoons, Fox Animation, WB Animation, and Cartoon Network shows to tap into in the coming years)
Oh yeah and Beyoncé. I was discussing this thread with my wife and that was the second thing she said after “anything where the woman is in power and not overly sexualized”. She also mentioned Dolly Parton, Tomb Raider, Power Puff Girls, and a few other things
She also said if guys can’t get their wives/GFs into pinball it’s probably him that’s the problem 
Quoted from metallik:A metroid themed pin would get incredible amount of free publicity from the gaming industry. Might be challenging to negotiating a license though.
And if you’re going to deal with Nintendo, get Mario. (Or Pokemon. It translates to pinball so easily)
But maybe Metroid is easier because Nintendo of Japan has always been indifferent towards the franchise because it was never as big there than in America.
Quoted from Rarehero:Nintendo DS Lite + Rumble Pak + Metroid Prime Pinball = AWESOME, if anyone is jonesin' for Metroid pinball.
I have it. It’s fun
As an aside, the old Nintendo manual for Metroid is kinda messed up. It hints at a big shocking reveal if you beat the game fast enough, and if you do, then it’s the game revealing that it was a woman the whole time (And if you do it really fast, it’s her in a bikini). Different times!
Quoted from Rarehero:Yup. That reveal was a legit shock for me as a kid when I finished Metroid. No idea Samus was a woman until that moment! Ah, the pre-spoiler days of magic, surprise & discovery.
Yeah it was weird. The whole manual refers to Samus as a he, but leaves you with this nugget
AB072B51-4492-4EBB-87A2-CF9E096D4E67 (resized).jpeg
CC4C1245-13E9-445C-90D1-A238EB91EA84 (resized).jpeg
It’s not a twist...they lied lol
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