(Topic ID: 292067)

REAL TALK: Female oriented themes in pinball

By MegaFeenix

57 days ago


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Topic Stats

  • 355 posts
  • 94 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 37 days ago by cdnpinbacon
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“Which of these strong licenses would you be most likely to buy? If none which do you think would be most successful?”

  • Kill Bill 13 votes
    57%
  • Lynda Carter Wonder Woman 9 votes
    39%
  • Beyoncé 1 vote
    4%

(23 votes)

This poll has been closed.

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There are 355 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 8.
#1 57 days ago

One thing that is frustrating about this hobby is how a male audience is targeted seemingly alone. The elephant in the room being that’s who is buying and supporting pinball by a large majority. My thought is I would love a Sailor Moon, Ru Paul’s Drag Race, or a Golden Girls pin. Barbi would make a good pin next to that newer Hotwheels one. What are your thoughts pinside? ... Wonder Woman!
Addendum:
This post was never meant to be an indictment of the pinball industry. Although it is interesting that people jump right to that one way or the other. I’m more interested in what I.P. or themes you want that are considered “girly” so are not touched or you think could bring success and potential growth in pinball. General themes are pretty much gender neutral, even Houdini with a male lead I feel is “straight down the middle” but maybe others feel differently.

#2 57 days ago

I will be all in on a Ru Paul's Drag Race Pin.

#3 57 days ago
Quoted from MegaFeenix:

that’s who is buying and supporting pinball by a large majority

You just answered your own question

Hard pass

#4 57 days ago

I'm sure this won't be a popular thought, but much of the "targeting" of men is because of a lack of strong diversity in the companies themselves. You have (in Stern and JJP's) case, old white guys who have been in the business for years with other old white guys, hiring men to design games, do the rules, do the code, pick the themes, do the art, etc. There are women and minorities working at these companies for sure, but the higher up you get towards the owners and decision makers, the less of that you see. I would assume the majority of the people buying games are male, so I'm sure that's where they target things to make money, so you until we have more diversity among players/buyers AND the people running the show, it is going to be stagnant.

#5 57 days ago

A Mad Max Fury Road Prequel - Furiosa - is supposed to film next year. THat would be a great opportunity in my opinion, as people have been clamoring for a Mad Max universe pin for years. I'm sure it's going to be awesome, just as Fury Road was.

Only hitch is who the hell knows if this movie ever gets made, it took like 15 years for George Miller to make Fury Road actually happen once it was announced.

I do think it's time for these manufacturers to take some small chances in the theme department when it comes to appealing to a broader audience. THey can do it in ways that really aren't huge risks (Elvira is a good example, but I think they can afford to go a little bit further).

#6 57 days ago

Just throwing out there that the women who play pinball in my life all clamor for the female characters in Pirates. They NEVER pick the male characters if they can help it. There's definitely something there.

#7 57 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

A Mad Max Fury Road Prequel - Furiosa - is supposed to film next year. THat would be a great opportunity in my opinion, as people have been clamoring for a Mad Max pin for years (well this is close). I'm sure it's going to be awesome, just as Fury Road was.
Only hitch is who the hell knows if this movie ever gets made, it took like 15 years for George Miller to make Fury Road actually happen once it was announced.
I do think it's time for these manufacturers to take some small chances in the theme department when it comes to appealing to a broader audience. THey can do it in ways that really aren't huge risks (Elvira is a good example, but I think they can afford to go a little bit further).

You should check out what we’re making
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/witness-mad-max-fury-road-homebrew/page/11#post-6231651

22
#9 57 days ago

Kinda seems like this poster is trolling. Their top 3 suggestions would bankrupt any pinball company and rightfully so.

#10 57 days ago

Wonder Woman
Charlie’s Angels
Aeon Flux
Ghost In The Shell
Salt
Lucy
Elektra
Ocean’s 8
Alice in Wonderland (Tim Burton)

That’s top of mind theme’s my wife would get behind and I haven’t even hit the google to remind me of more...

#11 57 days ago
Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

Kinda seems like this poster is trolling. Their top 3 suggestions would bankrupt any pinball company and rightfully so.

Yep. Themes are mostly geared toward middle-aged men for a reason. Nostalgia and cash - both of which grown-up children usually have in spades.

I think the manufacturers are filling the gender gap with games where female characters can be picked at the start (as mentioned above with POTC). I know that women almost always go with Leia when they start a game of Star Wars in my house, so there's something to that theory.

But I also think of TNA as a "female" game because of the main character and because the game's color scheme is predominantly purple/pink and even has female callouts. That game is definitely NOT a "male" game (with the exception of blowing shit up!).

#12 57 days ago

My wife loves our Dolly Parton and I’ve heard some other women squeal in joy when I roll it through the door of a location.

I’m a strong advocate for a WAP pinball. Business be damned! You don’t know what people will buy if something like it is never offered.

#13 57 days ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

Yep. Themes are mostly geared toward middle-aged men for a reason. Nostalgia and cash - both of which grown-up children usually have in spades.
I think the manufacturers are filling the gender gap with games where female characters can be picked at the start (as mentioned above with POTC). I know that women almost always go with Leia when they start a game of Star Wars in my house, so there's something to that theory.
But I also think of TNA as a "female" game because of the main character and because the game's color scheme is predominantly purple/pink and even has female callouts. That game is definitely NOT a "male" game (with the exception of blowing shit up!).

TNA is great. A heroine on the backglass (or anti-hero I guess). Extremely rare for there to be a woman starring on the backglass that is in a position of power. Also it’s not like a Barbwire trying to have it both ways, power and male gaze.

#14 57 days ago
Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

Kinda seems like this poster is trolling. Their top 3 suggestions would bankrupt any pinball company and rightfully so.

I agree and am sure those titles would sell out day one. I see nothing wrong with the titles they are making and never once has my wife said I wish they made more girly themes. Soprano's is her favorite game which has swearing and strippers.

#15 57 days ago

Laser Cue sequel?

#16 57 days ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Business be damned!

I take it you have never run a business?

#17 57 days ago
Quoted from Tomass:

I take it you have never run a business?

It’s called sarcasm you goof

#18 57 days ago

I'd be down for wonder woman so I could stare at gal addot all day in my game room.

28
#19 57 days ago

So all of you who want these themes:
- start a business
- secure the license
- open the factory
- hire the employees
- source the parts
- build the game
- get licensing signoff
- go through compliance testing
- market the game and let us play it.

That is what is so awesome about this country, you can do it yourselves! Don't rely on another company to change their business model to make what you want. If you think there is a gap in the market, fill it. Be a disruptor and do it yourself.

20
#20 57 days ago
Quoted from grantopia:

I'm sure this won't be a popular thought, but much of the "targeting" of men is because of a lack of strong diversity in the companies themselves. You have (in Stern and JJP's) case, old white guys who have been in the business for years with other old white guys, hiring men to design games, do the rules, do the code, pick the themes, do the art, etc. There are women and minorities working at these companies for sure, but the higher up you get towards the owners and decision makers, the less of that you see. I would assume the majority of the people buying games are male, so I'm sure that's where they target things to make money, so you until we have more diversity among players/buyers AND the people running the show, it is going to be stagnant.

This may not be popular either but are only old white guys open game here or can we shit on other groups and have that be acceptable.

#21 57 days ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

It’s called sarcasm you goof

Given all the posts I've seen from you, nothing about what you wrote would indicate sarcasm.

#22 57 days ago
Quoted from Xenon75:

So all of you who want these themes:
- start a business
- secure the license
- open the factory
- hire the employees
- source the parts
- build the game
- get licensing signoff
- go through compliance testing
- market the game and let us play it.
That is what is so awesome about this country, you can do it yourselves! Don't rely on another company to change their business model to make what you want. If you think there is a gap in the market, fill it. Be a disruptor and do it yourself.

Do you really think this is a meaningful contribution?

What is it about some guys in this hobby that act like this when people ask for some more variety.

“But business!!!!” they yell while their knees shake at the thought of someone wanting some non-comic, non-dad-rock theme

#23 57 days ago
Quoted from Jamesays:

This may not be popular either but are only old white guys open game here or can we shit on other groups and have that be acceptable.

Who’s shitting on them? They do great work.

It’s not controversial to notice the decision makers are largely older white men. And when Stern only picks themes their design team is passionate about, the only themes that will be made are mostly going to be ones that appeal to them

16
#24 57 days ago
Quoted from Xenon75:

So all of you who want these themes:
- start a business
- secure the license
- open the factory
- hire the employees
- source the parts
- build the game
- get licensing signoff
- go through compliance testing
- market the game and let us play it.
That is what is so awesome about this country, you can do it yourselves! Don't rely on another company to change their business model to make what you want. If you think there is a gap in the market, fill it. Be a disruptor and do it yourself.

There you have it folks!

All suggestions or complaints of any kind about pinball are no longer allowed here unless you actually run a pinball company!

With our new policies, only Price Bubble threads will be allowed (but please don't criticize pricing on new games, unless you own a pinball company)

21
#25 57 days ago
Quoted from Jamesays:

This may not be popular either but are only old white guys open game here or can we shit on other groups and have that be acceptable.

I mean, are you aware of some top secret pinball manufacturer that isn't comprised of manly white men? I think you'd be "shitting" on something that doesn't exist, but if you've found it, let us know. If you're talking about something non-pinball related, please let us know what group you think it's going to be awesome to "shit" on, I can't wait to hear.

It's always amazing how anytime anyone mentions diversity, white people get so crabby and assume it's some sort of personal attack on them. I'm not saying "white people are bad" or that we need "forced diversity", I'm not "shitting" on white men (I'm one!) or whatever else the 4chan people talk about. I'm saying that when you have a group of people that are all very similar making something, you get a product that represents their collective backgrounds and thoughts.

I know the "D" word is big and scary, but believe me, I'm not suggesting we need to randomly draw names of minorities out of a hat and make them CEO of Stern, I'm saying you have a bunch of white dudes designing games for white dudes because that's who plays and buys them. Is that smart from a business perspective - sure. Is it also why we don't have many "female" themes - yes.

#26 57 days ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

“But business!!!!”

Well yeah, don't you think these businesses making pinball machines should care about....their..business? Or no?

Maybe you're right, they should put the success of their business aside and make a Barbi pinball machine that would probably bankrupt them because a few people say they want it.

-2
#27 57 days ago
Quoted from pinlink:

Well yeah, don't you think these businesses making pinball machines should care about....their..business? Or no?
Maybe you're right, they should put the success of their business aside and make a Barbi pinball machine that would probably bankrupt thier business because a few people say they want it.

Why do the fans care so much? It’s not your business

And you don’t know what people will buy if it’s never offered. It’s that simple

15
#28 57 days ago

The outraged grandpa is strong in this thread....

-1
#29 56 days ago

.

#30 56 days ago
Quoted from grantopia:

you have a bunch of white dudes designing games for white dudes because that's who plays and buys them. Is that smart from a business perspective - sure. Is it also why we don't have many "female" themes - yes.

Right. So you agree that the pinball target market would not buy these "female themes". So why would a company make something that no one will buy?

#31 56 days ago

#32 56 days ago
Quoted from javagrind888:

The outraged grandpa is strong in this thread....

So is the detached from reality millennial virtue signalling.

#33 56 days ago
Quoted from pinlink:

Right. So you agree that the pinball target market would not buy these "female themes". So why would a company make something that no one will buy?

I'm not arguing they "should", I'm saying that's a reason they don't. You left out the other part of what I was saying though, so I'll use your approach where you rephrase half of what someone said to prove a point they weren't making:

So you are saying pinball companies should not hire more women and minorities and we shouldn't actively try to increase diversity in the player/buyer base?

10
#34 56 days ago

I heard from Williams back when Jackbot came out that Pinbot was considered the best female playing pin in it's day. So they updated it in hopes of attracting more female players again.

LTG : )

#35 56 days ago
Quoted from grantopia:

I mean, are you aware of some top secret pinball manufacturer that isn't comprised of manly white men? I think you'd be "shitting" on something that doesn't exist, but if you've found it, let us know. If you're talking about something non-pinball related, please let us know what group you think it's going to be awesome to "shit" on, I can't wait to hear.
It's always amazing how anytime anyone mentions diversity, white people get so crabby and assume it's some sort of personal attack on them. I'm not saying "white people are bad" or that we need "forced diversity", I'm not "shitting" on white men (I'm one!) or whatever else the 4chan people talk about. I'm saying that when you have a group of people that are all very similar making something, you get a product that represents their collective backgrounds and thoughts.
I know the "D" word is big and scary, but believe me, I'm not suggesting we need to randomly draw names of minorities out of a hat and make them CEO of Stern, I'm saying you have a bunch of white dudes designing games for white dudes because that's who plays and buys them. Is that smart from a business perspective - sure. Is it also why we don't have many "female" themes - yes.

Maybe we should stay on topic and not blame people by color.Diversity includes everyone in my book.Everyone has a theme or title they would like to see lets listen and if they are interesting I may add it to my collection.

22
#36 56 days ago
Quoted from Tomass:

So is the detached from reality millennial virtue signalling.

How frightened do you have to be of change to think that suggesting a Wonder Woman pinball machine is "virtue signaling?"

A Furiosa or updated Dolly Parton machine sounds like money in the bank to me. Doesn't have to be a social justice movement; it can be good business.

#37 56 days ago
Quoted from MegaFeenix:

One thing that is frustrating about this hobby is how a male audience is targeted seemingly alone. The elephant in the room being that’s who is buying and supporting pinball by a large majority. My thought is I would love a Sailor Moon, Ru Paul’s Drag Race, or a Golden Girls pin. Barbi would make a good pin next to that newer Hotwheels one. What are your thoughts pinside? ... Wonder Woman!

"male audience is targeted seemingly alone"

Because who else is going to buy it?

If arcades were at 80s levels I am sure the number of female customers would be higher than back in the day. Female gamers have been on the rise and if this were video games, there is a very good case for it.

Pinball as a hobby is multifaceted. You collect/play games. You repair games. The repair part is where you would lose a lot of your female audience. I have tried for a decade to include girls I date in this hobby. They will play, but working on it? No, just not their thing. This is not all women. We have a local woman who is an excellent tournament player and tech, but she is the only one I know of in the area.

If you want to sell pins to more women, you have to figure out how to get more women to want to work on them.

A lot of women are ok with or even into a lot of male centric themes. The same cannot be said about getting men to play Sailor Moon. Golden Girls seems like a bizarre theme not because men don't watch it, they do, but because it is so out of date.

#38 56 days ago
Quoted from Jamesays:

Everyone has a theme or title they would like to see lets listen and if they are interesting I may add it to my collection.

What could be more interesting than PTCr ? I hope you can add it to your collection.

LTG : )
Disclaimer : I know everyone has a pin they'd like to see made. While the odds are against it. I hope it happens.

#39 56 days ago
Quoted from Jamesays:

Maybe we should stay on topic and not blame people by color.Diversity includes everyone in my book.Everyone has a theme or title they would like to see lets listen and if they are interesting I may add it to my collection.

This was you, like 15 minutes ago:

Quoted from Jamesays:

This may not be popular either but are only old white guys open game here or can we shit on other groups and have that be acceptable.

Here is the topic from the OP:

One thing that is frustrating about this hobby is how a male audience is targeted seemingly alone.

Sounds like you are most interested in listening to opinions that match yours.

#40 56 days ago

Ha wow this argument does seem shockingly familiar.

I'm sure Mark Goodman cringes now when he watches the arguments he was making back then. Especially considering how rich MTV was about to get playing MJ, Prince, and RUNDMC videos.

Of course, Mark himself wasn't going to be on TV much longer either...

-2
#41 56 days ago
Quoted from grantopia:

This was you, like 15 minutes ago:

Here is the topic from the OP:
One thing that is frustrating about this hobby is how a male audience is targeted seemingly alone.
Sounds like you are most interested in listening to opinions that match yours.

you brought color into it [Removed]

#42 56 days ago
Quoted from grantopia:

This was you, like 15 minutes ago:
One thing that is frustrating about this hobby is how a male audience is targeted seemingly alone.

Because it sells. If there is a strong enough business case for a *insert female centric themed pin here* it would get made. It doesn't get made because the designers are predominately older white men. It isn't made because the market for such a machine is low.

#43 56 days ago
Quoted from Jamesays:

you brought color into it [Removed]

Which seems to have struck a nerve. I don't understand why that's bad. You brought "other groups" you dislike into it. "Let's listen" is already out the window I see.

Quoted from dung:

Because it sells. If there is a strong enough business case for a *insert female centric themed pin here* it would get made. It doesn't get made because the designers are predominately older white men. It isn't made because the market for such a machine is low.

Totally agreed, again, I thought I was clear but apparently not. From a business perspective it makes sense, your pool of buyers is not diverse, nor is the pool of people making the product. This doesn't mean it's "bad", but it's what it is. Until you have more women on both sides of the equation, you're not going to see much movement in themes I would wager.

-26
#44 56 days ago

"diversity, equity, inclusion" blah blah blah. Here's an idea. Go get a job, change your tampon, stop focusing on being the victim, get off your ass and go build the fuggin' thing. Pretty simple. There is a reason "old white guys" are in charge and though no one has the balls to mention it...we all know why.

#45 56 days ago

I'd like to see Spooky or another boutique designer experiment with something like My Little Pony. My wife would go nuts and I'm sure she's not the only one. Little things can be huge, like instead of just a He-Man machine they did He-Man and She-Ra. My friends have daughters they'd love to get into pinball more.
There's untapped potential and market there.

#46 56 days ago
Quoted from grantopia:

Which seems to have struck a nerve. I don't understand why that's bad. You brought "other groups" you dislike into it. "Let's listen" is already out the window I see.

Totally agreed, again, I thought I was clear but apparently not. From a business perspective it makes sense, your pool of buyers is not diverse, nor is the pool of people making the product. This doesn't mean it's "bad", but it's what it is. Until you have more women on both sides of the equation, you're not going to see much movement in themes I would wager.

I dont think any group should be shit on,ask someone to read the post for you

#47 56 days ago
Quoted from Jamesays:

I dont think any group should be shit on,ask someone to read the post for you

I can read it. It's right here:

Quoted from Jamesays:

This may not be popular either but are only old white guys open game here or can we shit on other groups and have that be acceptable.

I mean, what did you mean by "can we shit on other groups"? Can you clarify which groups you had in mind?

#48 56 days ago
Quoted from grantopia:

I can read it. It's right here:

I mean, what did you mean by "can we shit on other groups"? Can you clarify which groups you had in mind?

My point exactly its not acceptable to dish on any group

12
#49 56 days ago
Quoted from grantopia:

Which seems to have struck a nerve. I don't understand why that's bad. You brought "other groups" you dislike into it. "Let's listen" is already out the window I see.

Totally agreed, again, I thought I was clear but apparently not. From a business perspective it makes sense, your pool of buyers is not diverse, nor is the pool of people making the product. This doesn't mean it's "bad", but it's what it is. Until you have more women on both sides of the equation, you're not going to see much movement in themes I would wager.

You aren't going to have a meaningful number of women on the business end unless you have a meaningful number interested in the product to begin with. This screams of wanting diversity for the sake of diversity. No one is excluding women from pinball, but you can't force it on people just because you want it that way.

#50 56 days ago
Quoted from Jamesays:

My point exactly its not acceptable to dish on any group

But no one was shitting on them?

Pointing out that it's mostly white guys in charge of picking and designing the themes is not shitting on anyone. It's a simple observation.

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