(Topic ID: 111596)

Re-riveting steppers, without...


By NicoVolta

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 23 posts
  • 13 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by essmeier
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    #1 4 years ago

    ...sending them to Steve Young
    ...desoldering the entire bakelite plate from the machine
    ...driving myself nuts using inappropriate tools

    I could drop silver solder on it for a temporary-ish fix.
    I could make a duplicate part with a laser cutter, skip the riveting business, and just epoxy everything.
    I could stare at the bad rivets intensely and hope my telekinetic powers would reshape them.

    But really I just want the easy fix: Drill the bad one out, snap the new one in.

    Where can I find a dad gum rassen-frassen tool to do this?

    #2 4 years ago
    Quoted from NicoVolta:

    I could stare at the bad rivets intensely and hope my telekinetic powers would reshape them.

    There is no rivet.

    Spoon_Boy_Neo_Bends.jpg
    #3 4 years ago

    The silver solder works a lot better than just temporary. It really doesn't wear down like you might expect.

    #5 4 years ago

    I assume there pretty pricey!

    #6 4 years ago
    Quoted from wayner:

    I assume there pretty pricey!

    They can be

    #7 4 years ago

    Or this... http://tubularrivetclincher.yolasite.com

    EDIT: Don't order this. It doesn't stay aligned throughout the riveting procedure.

    #8 4 years ago

    I know the subject of riveting has been covered on other threads but I purchased this small kit mainly for the pointed punch and found it works fine along with a drill to remove existing rivets and a hammer to punch home the rivets. I was hoping to use the jaws of a bench drill chuck to hold the punch and to drive home the rivet but it just did not work. So judicious use of the punch & hammer did the trick for me at minimal cost.

    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Silver-Metal-Snap-Fastener-Leather-Rapid-Rivet-Button-Craft-Setting-Tool-Set-/130872054897?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item1e78951471

    #9 4 years ago

    I bought one of those. Didn't work. The cup does not secure the rivet flush against targets, bakelite, etc. and allows too much lateral movement. Only pressure applied with a rivet die set will provide a smooth, secure fit.

    Searching for pinball rivet stepper Gottlieb etc. on Pinside (and indeed, the internet itself) does not seem to turn up anything terribly useful regarding the specific replacement of EM stepper rivets.

    Aside from the hand rivet squeezer and clamp-style custom clincher above, I am investigating a third option: Stainless steel tack screws. They also have smooth oval heads and can be easily attached via a small nut on the back. Assuming the gap isn't too narrow between adjacent rivets it could be a simple matter to install one. Might be a good fix for those without the determination to do a partial or full re-rivet.

    #10 4 years ago

    That's right it will not work using the cupped die-it has to be a flat surface. I only used the punch and placed the article on a hard flat & protected surface and it worked fine but it takes a fair blow to secure the rivet.

    #11 4 years ago
    Quoted from DirtFlipper:

    The silver solder works a lot better than just temporary. It really doesn't wear down like you might expect.

    How about for the spider arm contacts? Rivets on the plate are fine but how well will a drop of solder hold up if you're missing a contact or two on the arm?

    #12 4 years ago
    Quoted from dtown:

    How about for the spider arm contacts? Rivets on the plate are fine but how well will a drop of solder hold up if you're missing a contact or two on the arm?

    That's a different issue. You need to replace the contact points in the spider arms.

    PBR sells replacement points. You have a similar issue with needing to peen the flange on the backside of the blade to secure the contact point. But since the points are either copper or brass it is an easy effort on an anvil or vise. I have a conical tip awl that I first flare the ferrel side of the contact and then just flatten it with a hammer. You still need to have the spider arm/assembly out of the game/stepper to do this.

    #13 4 years ago

    +1 on what dirtflipper said. i had a badly worn stepper on a kings & queens and was faced with the same circumstance. i had it apart anyway because it was in bad need of a cleaning. i cleaned the area and applied some flux then a drop of solder. worked like a charm and i got the game running again much faster. there's just not much downward pressure applied by the shoes if they're clean and can "float" properly as they slide over the rivet, especially with a thin coat of superlube. for home use, this repair will outlast it's owner i'm thinking.

    #14 4 years ago
    Quoted from MikeO:

    That's a different issue. You need to replace the contact points in the spider arms.
    PBR sells replacement points. You have a similar issue with needing to peen the flange on the backside of the blade to secure the contact point. But since the points are either copper or brass it is a ln easy effort on an anvil or vise. I have a conical tip awl that I first flare the ferrel side of the contact and then just flatten it with a hammer. You still need to have the spider arm/assembly out of the game/stepper to do this.

    Thanks. Found them on PBR and ordered.

    #15 4 years ago

    Installed the high voltage contacts the other day. Super easy with a few taps from a ball peen hammer and a hard metal surface like a vice.

    1 month later
    #16 4 years ago

    Tried the Tonka clamp riveter. No good. The dies do not remain aligned throughout the process. Pretty much useless.

    #17 4 years ago

    Steve Young offers a re-riveting service ? I cannot find steppers for my old 1940 Paradise.
    Would be great if he can supplies.

    #18 4 years ago

    I have used Action pinball several times, here is a brief description of their riveting services:

    In-shop professional riveting services available, using factory-orginal-style rivets as shown (and as used with our factory-style rivet tool set). Retain that factory-original look with factory-style rivets, professionally installed!

    Simply ship us your part(s), we'll remove old rivets, install new rivets and parts, and ship back.

    Cost for riveting services is $5.00 per rivet, plus return shipping costs. We have a $20 minimum charge per order (before return shipping costs).

    Per-rivet charge includes professional removal of old rivet, disassembly and reassembly of parts (if required), new rivet, washer (if used), and labor.

    E-mail us to discuss your riveting needs, for more information, and/or to arrange to send us parts for riveting service.

    #20 4 years ago

    I purchased one of these

    Img69.jpg

    http://www.pinrestore.com/Riveting.html

    To replace this little guys left knee, work well, now to tackle the 8 target replacement on my Target Pool

    20150124_210752.jpg

    2 months later
    #21 4 years ago

    Solution: We modified an arbor press using some of Pinrestore's kit materials along with a custom aluminum strike plate. Works very well. Target and stepper rivets now bend to my will.

    Replacing rivets is a time-consuming process: Unsolder the stepper disc, remove all wires (and carefully note their position), drill out each rivet, clinch new ones (ideally w/new solder lugs), resolder all wires, and resolder disc to the machine. However, once done, it sure is nice knowing those connections will be SOLID for years to come with no more flakiness.

    Time to get on with some serious riveting...

    #22 4 years ago

    I knew you would work it out.

    Like to see the strike plate idea to appreciate how you used it.

    Steve J.

    2 years later
    #23 2 years ago

    I just restored a 1964 Gottlieb Big Top (and I must get around to doing a restoration thread on it.) The disc on the Balls to Play stepper had about a dozen rivets with deep grooves cut through them and that was causing the Balls to Play display on the backglass to work intermittently.

    I thought I'd try the silver solder solution. The project was one that I thought would take a few minutes, as I'd intended to fix a dozen rivets. It ended up taking about three hours, but produced good results.

    My disc had 50 rivets and about 12 had deep grooves cut in them.

    1. I identified the dozen or so rivets that needed attention. I put a dab of flux on each rivet.
    2. I used a soldering iron to put a small drop of solder on each of the rivets. My silver solder was rather thick in diameter, which made it difficult to get a drop of solder that wasn't huge. I ended up using wire cutters to cut small (1/8" long) pieces of solder, which I had on a piece of cardboard. I'd touch a piece with the soldering iron, let it melt, and then I'd transfer it to the rivet.
    3. Once done with the dozen rivets, I now had 12 rivets that were taller than the other 38.
    4. I decided to add a drop of solder to all 50 rivets.
    5. Once done, all of the rivets were too high, and the stepper couldn't move over them. Now I had a stepper that didn't work at all!
    6. I got out my Black and Decker Mouse sander with 80 grit sandpaper and sanded all 50 rivets down to a uniform height.
    7. I wiped the board down with a cloth and some Novus #2 to get rid of the dust.
    8. I applied a light coat of Super Lube to the disc.
    9. I reassembled the stepper. All good.

    I've now got a stepper where all 50 rivets are uniformly sized and have no wear. The game now works properly.

    Silver solder is surprisingly tough stuff, so this looks to be a solid repair. None of the silver solder drops broke loose during the sanding. One thing to watch out for is to make sure that the wires on the back side of the rivets don't come loose when you're applying heat to the worn side.

    A good, inexpensive solution to a common problem and as DirtFlipper said above, it's one that will probably last for years.

    Charlie

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