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(Topic ID: 251086)

Re-Game: 1985 Tag Team Pinball

By cobra18t

1 year ago

Topic Stats

  • 136 posts
  • 16 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 23 days ago by BENETNATH
  • Topic is favorited by 25 Pinsiders


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There are 136 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 3.
#101 6 months ago

Great to hear from you.
I'm just soldering the wings and removing all EM stuff on mine.
That's great to see your project progressing

2 weeks later
#102 5 months ago

Here is some Tag Team gameplay. I will have another video soon going over the rules that have been added because I did not play well enough to show everything. I found three bugs during this game, so the play testing has been fruitful.

#103 5 months ago
Quoted from cobra18t:

Here is some Tag Team gameplay. I will have another video soon going over the rules that have been added because I did not play well enough to show everything. I found three bugs during this game, so the play testing has been fruitful.

Looks awesome! Much more fun to play than the original game. Sound is great. Guess the ball should not stay locked on the top, right?


#104 5 months ago


No, the ball is supposed to stay locked up top. That was building toward a 3-ball multiball that I did not achieve in this game. You lock the top and right holes, then you start the multiball by going in the left kicker.

I want the lock to persist across balls. I am also ok with it persisting across players. Barring head to head games, multiplayer pinball does not have as much interaction between players as it should. With this arrangement you can steal locks from another player.

Also, a virtual lock is not as useful without an autoshooter as the balls have to be staged properly in order to get a predictable multiball start.

#105 5 months ago
Quoted from cobra18t:

Here is some Tag Team gameplay. I will have another video soon going over the rules that have been added because I did not play well enough to show everything. I found three bugs during this game, so the play testing has been fruitful.

Been following this since the beginning. Very impressed. Incredibly cool. I have an Alien Star - I wish I had the acumen to do something like this.

#106 5 months ago

Oh yeah! - sorry, but somebody had to say it.

#107 5 months ago

Thanks @mistermoberg. It has been a fun project and it is starting to feel like a real game now.

sys6, perfect. I have been waiting for someone to point that out. That callout is supposed to be a central element, but right now it is literally the only callout. I have to work on that.

#108 5 months ago

And here is my rules explanation. It is 10+ minutes, so don't watch unless you are really interested in pinball rules/features. There are still a few more features to add and bugs to squash.

#109 5 months ago

That rocks!!!

#110 5 months ago

I've enjoyed my Tag Team as is but this is awesome. Wow!

#111 5 months ago

Thanks everyone!

I got the Tag Team 3 ball multiball with the sequenced jackpots today. It was incredibly satisfying. The sweeping light shows created with the Show Creator linked in the MPF docs really add a lot to the game.

I also tried out a 7 inch 1024x600 LCD. I think it will work great and is a good size for being right between the flippers buttons as planned.

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#112 5 months ago

So awesome!

#113 5 months ago

Did you use the show creator in MPF for the sweeping lights when you get the jackpots?

#114 5 months ago

ad72, yes. I used it for the multiball jackpots, the capture "shockwaves," drain swipe down, and a few other places.

Personally, I like to set the Show Creator to black and white mode to force it to output two colors. I then edit the output of the show creator in Geany to automatically find and replace all the 'FFFFFF's with the token "front_color" and all the '000000's with "back_color." Then I can use show_tokens in the call of the show to define the colors. I can also play with the fade setting to get the feel I am looking for.

As an example here is a snippet from the generated show from Show Creator:

- time: '+1'
l_gi_11: '000000'
l_gi_12: '000000'

Using '000000' in the "Search For" and the following in "Replace With" (CTRL-H):
\n color: (back_color)\n fade: 500ms

You with have to play with the number of spaces after each '\n' to get the formatting correct. Pinside is stripping out my additional spaces in this post.

You end up with the same snippet being:

- time: '+1'
color: (back_color)
fade: 500ms
color: (back_color)
fade: 500ms

And here is a call to a show in the show_player:

front_color: tt_red
back_color: black
speed: 60
loops: 0

It sounds complicated at first, but once you get going, it is very easy. Geany does most of the work.

#115 5 months ago

Fantastic work on this. It really shows how someone who is talented can take an older pinball game and really breath a lot of life into the game. Every time that I play a game, and think it shoots great, but it is so shallow compared to newer is an example of the possibilities for that older game.

In SS3, I have a bar fight mode where each pop bumper needs to be hit multiple times. Maybe a cage match mode? As the pops are hit, the LED blinks faster and faster until the pop bumper gets knocked out. At that point, I kill the pop bumper. It is insanely difficult to get that last pop bumper to complete the mode because the pops are meant to play off each other, and disabling one of them changes the interplay between them. (I just want somebody else to use the idea because I feel it is clever, and I never complete the mode because I suck at pinball).

Congratulations again on how this is coming together. Soon you'll fall into the trap of throwing a display into the backbox. Don't do it! It is just one more hole where you will suddenly want to add a video mode, changing backgrounds for each mode, etc. Suddenly you want short animated clips for the modes.

#116 5 months ago

Thanks openpinballproj. I agree, this is a whole new game.

I like the cage match idea. I am not sure I can stomach completely disabling the pop, because that may slow down the game too much. I might try it with a disappointingly short pulse once a pop is knocked out. I think it would be pretty noticeable because my pops are pretty hot right now.

I have the 7" display and animating text is all I plan to do. Animations are an artistic rabbit hole that I do not have time for right now.

#117 5 months ago

I did not like the original drop targets on Tag Team. They were boring plain letters in a plain font that did not match the theme. I plan to make decals for my plain yellow targets that are already installed. Here is my first iteration. The font is similar to the original font on the side cabinet and pop bumper caps. It is the same font that I have been using on my display. My test print was done on my BW laser printer that is running out of toner.

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#118 5 months ago

That's a real pleasure to see what you put in it.
Great work!!

1 week later
#119 5 months ago

I started hunting for a fadecandy issue I have been having. After a computer restart, the fadecandy does not handle fade commands correctly it ends up flickering or replacing a color altogether. Once I replug the fadecandy USB, everything is fine. Fearing a power noise issue, I tried adding silly amounts of capacitance (47x the original) to the USB voltage input to the fadecandy and the charge pump output to no avail. I think this is an underlying fadecandy firmware or server issue.

jabdoa pointed me to an issue he opened with fadecandy a while back. If you are having similar issues, please comment there:

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1 month later
#120 3 months ago

I got my drop target decals in and am happy with how they turned out. I have extras if you want to buy them on the pinside marketplace.

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#121 3 months ago

they are really nice, great job !

1 week later
#122 3 months ago

I have been working on a new revision of my control board. This version uses STM32 boards natively, adds fusing, flyback diodes, and two neopixel channels supporting somewhere between 460 and 510 LEDs total depending on if you use RGB or RGBW neopixels. I have abandoned Fadecandy (flickercandy) altogether since OPP fully supports neopixels now. I had a number of other small tweaks and also had all the surface mount components soldered at the factory this time.

I got the through hole soldering done on one and still have a lot of testing to do with it. As a sanity check I hooked up a panel of neopixels and ran a test pattern...success.

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#123 3 months ago

One failed led top right corner?

#124 3 months ago

No, I had it configured for 255 LEDs, so it is just not being commanded. OPP told me a way to do 256 after I posted this.

#125 3 months ago

I confirmed with testing today that, given the proper configuration, I can command the full 256 LED panel. That means 512 LEDs should be possible with my new board since there are two OPP-enabled STM32 boards present.

I actually have no plans to use the panel in an installation, it was just a convenient way to test 256 LEDs at once. Using an LED strip is fine, but you end up with quite a coil on the desk and you really should have multiple power taps along the way. The panel routes the power much more favorably so I am only using one tap. That being said, I probably should come up with a demo light show just to show off what MPF and OPP can do now.

#126 3 months ago

Great board

1 month later
#127 62 days ago

I finally got space on the floor to setup my Tag Team again (fairwell, Stargate and Cue Ball Wizard).

I installed the new driver board and had to do some minor rewiring of the connectors. openpinballproj and jabdoa did some amazing work on the OPP firmware and MPF support for the new board. This was the first test of the new MOSFETs as well. I only have one game on it, but it is working great!

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#128 62 days ago

That board looks pretty awesome! Glad it is finally fully functional.

#129 61 days ago


The LEDs driven by OPP have been looking great. No glitches or flickering after a few hours of heavy use. It is also kind of nice not to have to start the fadecandy server.

The FETs have been performing well, too. The kids have been playing a lot and their style is to hit both flippers repeatedly as fast as possible. It is a great way to stress test the system. Maybe this week I can get some infrared images to confirm nothing is heating up too much.

#130 61 days ago

Yeah. Hilarious way to test the code is to throw the kids at it. I was play testing VH and it was working perfectly. My kids came down to play it, and immediately caused a reset by double flipping multiple times. That is actually the origin story of the power supply filter board. There are other things too that pointed out issues such as holding the flippers as the game ended. (Who does that? I guess the answer would be my kids). Great that it is working well for you. My theory is that the fadecandy server is a relatively heavy task for at least one core of the host computer. This should reduce the load on the host computer a bit so maybe it will make a rasbpi even more possible for the host. Again, great work!

1 week later
#131 54 days ago

Really good way also to get true words feedback...
A good way to swipe off your 'it's-not-so-bad' feelings of tinkerer and be forced to get it really good.
congrats for your boards, happy to see it moving on

1 week later
#132 42 days ago

I eventually want to get pinball cabinets CNC routed. I also want interlocking parts to minimize the jigs required and any assembly issues. Rather than paying to have someone CNC route my prototypes, I decided to try pattern routing.

My first test was on a single interlocking joint. I laser cut a 1/4" MDF pattern for the interlocking parts. It turns out that not many tool brands make the 1/4" diameter pattern plunge bit that I needed for the inside relief cuts, but Amana makes some. The test piece was 3/4" MDF. On the first try, the parts fit great! I checked the critical dimensions and I was within 5 thou (0.127mm) of the target dimensions. Not too bad for some handheld routing. (Pictures below).

On my laser, I cannot quite cut a pattern large enough for my future cabinet in one cut. I can either split it into two interlocking pieces as was done here:

Or I can leverage the alignment features in Lightburn to cut one large template by using two separate setups/cuts as was done here:

Interlocking Joint Test:

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2 weeks later
#133 24 days ago

New plan for the cabinet making. I picked this up from the Exploratorium in San Francisco...

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#134 24 days ago

holy crap! that should do it. nice pick up.

#135 23 days ago

Yep. It was not part of the plan, but the deal was too good to pass up. It is HEAVY. We did not have a forklift to unload it, so it was a 3 hour dance with 3 cherry picker shop cranes and 2 floor jacks to get it off the trailer and into position. Who rented all the forklifts in the area and left me with nothing?

The vacuum pump and spindle are 3 phase, which I don't have, so I am learning how to use VFDs.

#136 23 days ago

Wow ! You man are just passionately crazy . I like that

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There are 136 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 3.

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