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(Topic ID: 92193)

RBION coil question.


By The_Gorilla

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 44 posts
  • 11 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by terryb
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 6 years ago

The auto launch does not work during game play. It works when forcing it during diagnostic coil test. It also appears that the auto launch coil triggers when the knocker is tested. Where should I go from here?

Much thanks.

#2 6 years ago

Does the shooter lane switch work?

#3 6 years ago

Yes, but only during diagnostic testing. Never during game play. It is nice to "save" balls there during multi ball but I don't always want to cheat.

#4 6 years ago

if you go to tech alerts, i bet the switch is registering as "hypersensative switch". The game thinks it's broken when it's not. I've had 2 RBION's that had this issue. i just figured it was a software bug, both of my games did that.

If you take the batteries out and do a hard reset to the game it will temporarily fix itself.

Kyle

#5 6 years ago
Quoted from Hana9so:

if you go to tech alerts, i bet the switch is registering as "hypersensative switch". The game thinks it's broken when it's not. I've had 2 RBION's that had this issue. i just figured it was a software bug, both of my games did that.
If you take the batteries out and do a hard reset to the game it will temporarily fix itself.
Kyle

Thanks, Kyle. I will try it tomorrow!

#6 6 years ago

Battery reset did not work.

#7 6 years ago
Quoted from The_Gorilla:

Battery reset did not work.

Could be your trough optos. Remove all 4 balls and run active switch test. If trough jam or trough ball 1 is showing closed, shut off the game and reseat the connectors to both opto board and retest.

The only switch that should show closed in active switch test is one of the optos for the vari target. If any other switch shows closed with the balls removed, you have a switch problem. If the vari target switch is the only one closed, pound on the playfield in regular switch test and see if any switches trigger on the display. A flaky trough opto board could cause what you're seeing.

1 month later
#8 6 years ago

After checking and testing everything that was suggested, I put some "younger eyes" on it and discovered a wire had come disconnected. The wire was tucked up the whole trough opto piece and, from appearance, was still fine. Actually "tugging" on said wire revealed the break. One little bead of solder and it's all good!

10 months later
#9 5 years ago

I have a similar issue with my newly purchased RBION. It used to kick out 2 balls into plunger lane after I locked the 1st ball for multiball.
I tried all the above and it did not help but noticed the top switch of the lock lane stayed active by getting stuck, after I fixed it stopped but I still get the random non-plunged balls from ball save... Anyone has an idea what else it could be?

#10 5 years ago

I think the switch in the plunger lane may have been the other issue... sometime not making contact... looks good after a few games, will see...

#11 5 years ago

Well now I have another weird one...
When I lock one ball and it kicks another one in the plunger I get crazy hits and points out of nowhere. It is related to the plunger switch as when I pull the plunger back it stops and start again if I don't plunge the ball... it does the same after the 2nd lock but does not for initial plunge nor if I have a mod running when I lock (like road trip...).

No idea what that could be, I did an active switch or switch test and nothing out of the ordinary... ring a bell to anyone?

#12 5 years ago

Switch test - bang on playfield test ?

LTG : )™

#13 5 years ago

On my machine when ball was in the shooter Lane the ball would roll back and no longer register when against the shooter rod and the switch with no longer show contact been made I moved the switch back so it would make contact with the ball. Go to the clear ball trough menu and watch the DMD screen and you'll see the switch action. That's how I found my problem with the switch.

#14 5 years ago

well things sure are interesting with this game...
I still got that random 10,010pts rolling up like crazy when the balls get kicked out to the shooter lane after lock 1 and 2 (bot NOT every time)...
noticing the pts, I figure it was the same amount as a TOTEM target and thought it may be a short on the same column or row of switch (totem 2+3, switch 32 is on the same row).
When I tried an active switch test, I got switch 30 (behind head) coming up when I hit switch 32... I checked them out under the PF see if anything was short, nothing obvious but played around and clean them...
Since then, tried 4-5x multiball and the issue has not come back "yet"...?

Not sure if that is a long term solution though, does that ring a bell to anyone? Should I just go and replace some of these switches for the long run?

#15 5 years ago
Quoted from hisokajp:

When I tried an active switch test, I got switch 30 (behind head) coming up when I hit switch 30...

Should one of those be 32?

#16 5 years ago
Quoted from terryb:

Should one of those be 32?

right, I meant behind head switch 30 activate when I hit totem 2+3 switch 32

#17 5 years ago

Does Stern have something like switch edge test where you can see all of the switches that are indicating closed at one time?

The reason I ask is because we need to know if switch 30 and 32 indicate closed when you close switch 32 or only switch 30 indicates closed.

#18 5 years ago

Your idol 'sound' isn't going off by any chance when that happens does it?

#19 5 years ago

Idol opto may need cleaning....perhaps? Mine did that and I just cleaned off the idol opto.

#20 5 years ago
Quoted from bkaelin:

Idol opto may need cleaning....perhaps? Mine did that and I just cleaned off the idol opto.

No Idol sound going off, cleaned idol/head/ball trough but still the same. I cannot even pinpoint the actual set of parameter that turn this off... in some lock1/2 situation it goes nuts and some others it is just fine...

I made a couple videos to show it better:
http://1drv.ms/1LgroCU
http://1drv.ms/1LgrvhP

Quoted from terryb:

Does Stern have something like switch edge test where you can see all of the switches that are indicating closed at one time?
The reason I ask is because we need to know if switch 30 and 32 indicate closed when you close switch 32 or only switch 30 indicates closed.

I think you mean the "active switch test", I put a picture below of it actually. Could someone with a Ripley replicate and see if it's normal or an issue on mine?
-Vari target Opto1 is always on 41
-I have 2 balls in the ball through so switch 13 and 14 are on too.
-One ball in the shooter lane so switch 16 is on also.
-Then 4th ball is in lock1 so switch 46 is on.
So far so good I would think...
then when I press AND HOLD the Tombstone 2+3/switch 32 then switches 29/30 (Scoop VUK/Behind head) also turn on???

I wonder if it's related to my problem or normal for some reason?

I narrow down issue to when switch 16/shooter lane is on and when I press/hold on switch 32/tomb 2/3 then other switches in the same row as 32 activate (27-30 depending on the # in the through...).

I am thinking ordering a new switch 16 from Marcos and see if replacing it helps but I not sure how a single potential defective switch could affect all of this?
WP_20150617_17_41_08_Pro.jpg

#21 5 years ago

Your not getting any error reports? Sounds like the flaky hyper sensitive switch #16 occurrence ..shooter lane. And when I spoke of Idol, just to be sure we're on the same page I'm talking about Idol located on left lower side of pf w/magnet...not the shrunken head.

#22 5 years ago

P.s. If you are in switch test and roll the ball up shooter lane and back, what does the test show shooter lane switch is 'doing'? (If you already haven't tried that)

#23 5 years ago
Quoted from Cash_Riprock:

Your not getting any error reports? Sounds like the flaky hyper sensitive switch #16 occurrence ..shooter lane. And when I spoke of Idol, just to be sure we're on the same page I'm talking about Idol located on left lower side of pf w/magnet...not the shrunken head.

yeah I did the idol and the others. though the idol is hard to access so I did what I could without having to remove the ramp and plastic above it. the PF section is a bit hazy not sure if that could play?
I got hypersensitive switch 16 once but not since a couple days back, I guess it could be that, replace the switch would fix it?

Quoted from Cash_Riprock:

P.s. If you are in switch test and roll the ball up shooter lane and back, what does the test show shooter lane switch is 'doing'? (If you already haven't tried that)

closed when ball is on it, open when I plunge then close again, works fine while testing :/

#24 5 years ago

Can you post an image of the switch matrix diagram? I can't find it online.

#25 5 years ago

YES, clean the section of pf w/insert under Idol. Switch #16...I would replace it>easy to do and not costly. Not a guarantee as to the odd behavior going on but a start. Once it gets wonky it's only the beginning, and also a known problem.

#27 5 years ago

Thanks Cash. I did a search on Stern's site and that didn't show up.

I would inspect switches 16 and 32. Look for diode reversed, diode lead shorted to ground or column/row wire shorted to ground.

It would also be a good idea to eliminate the board as a possible issue. Remove the column and row connectors and jumper from each column to each row and see if you get false indications.

#28 5 years ago

Sure thing. Interested in the final fix on this. I had the wonky switch #16 and also the idol cause weird problems and fixed both. Replaced switch and cleaned Idol optos and PF lens insert...ta-dah. ; ) Hopefully one is the fix for hisokajp. Good luck!

#29 5 years ago
Quoted from Cash_Riprock:

YES, clean the section of pf w/insert under Idol. Switch #16...I would replace it>easy to do and not costly. Not a guarantee as to the odd behavior going on but a start. Once it gets wonky it's only the beginning, and also a known problem.

Did that, top and bottom opto, no changes

Quoted from terryb:

Thanks Cash. I did a search on Stern's site and that didn't show up.
I would inspect switches 16 and 32. Look for diode reversed, diode lead shorted to ground or column/row wire shorted to ground.
It would also be a good idea to eliminate the board as a possible issue. Remove the column and row connectors and jumper from each column to each row and see if you get false indications.

as far as I can tell switch and diode look fine, nothing shorted. I replaced a diode on tomb2+3 that seemed with a leg a bit broken but no difference.
Not sure I follow the board testing, may be out of my league?
I am going to get a new switch16 and see if that helps.

tested all switch individually and they are fine but when I put 2-3 balls in a through and I have a ball in the shooter lane then pressing on tomb2+3 light up 2-3 switches in the same column (28-30)... which I assume is not normal but only in this configuration it seems to go nuts?
If anyone has a chance to test the scenario above to see if it's normal during active switch test or it represent the issue I am trying to fix?
thanks!

#30 5 years ago
Quoted from hisokajp:

If anyone has a chance to test the scenario above to see if it's normal during active switch test or it represent the issue I am trying to fix?

That is the issue you are trying to fix.

Are you sure you got the diode oriented properly?

#31 5 years ago

they are all the same, grey stripe toward the lug without wires on, same for all the switches it seems?

#32 5 years ago

tried to change the diode on switch 16 to see if that does anything but still same result.

I am still not sure why the issue only comes with balls in the through. If I press on switch 16 then tomb2+3 all is fine but if I do the same with 1 to 4 balls in the through then I guess random switch 28-30 popping up in test as well...?
Something is confusing the switch matric and making other switch activate when they shouldn't? Shorting, miss wire, wrong side/broken diode?

Below is on order are picture of switch 16, ball through switches and tomb2+3. Is there any way to test individual diode or know which way they are supposed to be? Are the switches lugs reversible as well?
WP_20150619_12_56_20_Pro.jpg
WP_20150619_12_56_35_Pro.jpg
WP_20150619_13_17_30_Pro.jpg

#33 5 years ago

Here's the switch wiring, yours look good.

// Error: Image 418510 not found //

Quoted from hisokajp:

I am still not sure why the issue only comes with balls in the through. If I press on switch 16 then tomb2+3 all is fine but if I do the same with 1 to 4 balls in the through then I guess random switch 28-30 popping up in test as well...?

In order to get phantom switch closures three switches have to be closed. See the following video.

#34 5 years ago

Here's your switch matrix the the problem presented. When the red switches are closed (16, 24 and 11) then switch 19 indicates closed. Ditto for the other colors.

// Error: Image 418515 not found //

I don't think this is likely, but disconnect the 4 Trough VUK Opto and see if the problem goes away. As I said before it could be a board problem, I can walk you through the jumpering if you would look. Mostly though, everything points at switch 24 being the issue.

Game off, meter in diode continuity check from each lug of switch 24 and each side of the diode to ground for a short. Then with switch 24 closed check across the diode and switch for a short. Reverse the leads and check again.

#35 5 years ago
Quoted from terryb:

Here's the switch wiring, yours look good.
Micro-Switch-Diode-Wiring.gif

Is the wiring on the lug reversible, for picture above white cable+diode on right lug and diode only with silver stripe on left? That's how my shooter lane one is.

In order to get phantom switch closures three switches have to be closed. See the following video.
» YouTube video

Pretty interesting, will need to think more about it to see how it applies here with the multiple switch closure needed to get he phantom switch closure.

Quoted from terryb:

Here's your switch matrix the the problem presented. When the red switches are closed (16, 24 and 11) then switch 19 indicates closed. Ditto for the other colors.
Ripley-Matrix.png
I don't think this is likely, but disconnect the 4 Trough VUK Opto and see if the problem goes away. As I said before it could be a board problem, I can walk you through the jumpering if you would look. Mostly though, everything points at switch 24 being the issue.
Game off, meter in diode continuity check from each lug of switch 24 and each side of the diode to ground for a short. Then with switch 24 closed check across the diode and switch for a short. Reverse the leads and check again.

to make the example simpler, when 14 and 16 are closed and then I close 32, switch 30 close as well. No different order with the sme switches reproduce the phantom closure.
If I close 13 and 16, then I close 32, switch 29 close that time.
I tried close 13 and 16, then I close 32 with 14/4 through VUK Opto disconnected but switch 29 still close.

I am motivated to do whatever it takes to fix it though would switch 32 be the most likely culprit? During the game when a ball goes on switch 16 I get crazy 10,010pts which correspond to hitting switch 32 target also?

#36 5 years ago

With the additional data you provided, everything points at switch 16. See in the following image how that is the only switch in common with the rectangle formed by each issue. I added a line through the circle for the phantom switch indications.

// Error: Image 418525 not found //

#37 5 years ago

right, that was the initial thoughts 16 and 32 are the only two common to all the phantom closure, sw16 is also known for being problematic in the RBION apparently.
I have one in order and I am hoping that replacing it will fix the issue directly since changing the diode on it did not do anything.

Actually I have a spare new DB3 swtich, different metal arm but I ll try that and see.

#38 5 years ago

well a bit anti climatic after all that... installing the new switch following the schematic below (which had white wire on the opposite lug as my sw16) worked right away... I tried reversing back the white wire (and reversing diode ofc) to match how my sw16 was before and I got the same symptoms back... So back to the original sw16 but inverting the white wire and diode to test, and it all work fine in switch testing now, did 4-5 multi ball and the issue has not come back up. I guess position of the white wire on the switch made the difference in this case!

thanks a lot for everyone opinion and time spent on this!

Quoted from terryb:

Micro-Switch-Diode-Wiring.gif

#39 5 years ago

Great! So your saying it was the ol' switch 16 eh? ; ) Do you know you can just swap the blade onto a new cherry switch? Sometimes you have to if metal arm/switch unavailable. Enjoy your game.

Nice stuff there terryb!

#40 5 years ago

yeah exactly, thanks!

#41 5 years ago

Following

#42 5 years ago
Quoted from Cash_Riprock:

Great! So your saying it was the ol' switch 16 eh? ; ) Do you know you can just swap the blade onto a new cherry switch? Sometimes you have to if metal arm/switch unavailable. Enjoy your game.

I really think it was the wiring, not the switch. The symptoms are exactly like a reversed diode. On the other hand, the switch could have been shorted internally.

#43 5 years ago
Quoted from terryb:

I really think it was the wiring, not the switch. The symptoms are exactly like a reversed diode. On the other hand, the switch could have been shorted internally.

so are we saying the switch lug for return wire is could be swapped without impact? I just follow the picture you had when I did the re-wirring, which was the opposite of what I had and it ended up working. I turn around the diode but both before and after the silver stripe side of the diode always faced opposite of the return wire.
The switch itself ended up being good as I am using it now just fine, in the opposite return wire configuration.

418510.gif

#44 5 years ago
Quoted from hisokajp:

so are we saying the switch lug for return wire is could be swapped without impact?

Reversing the wht and grn wires would cause problems or reversing the diode would cause problems. Theoretically you could reverse the wht and grn wires and reverse the diode at the same time. It's best just to stay with convention and wire it exactly as shown.

Quoted from hisokajp:

The switch itself ended up being good as I am using it now just fine, in the opposite return wire configuration.

There could have been a bent lead, solder blob, or stray wire that was shorting across two leads. In the process of re-soldering everything you fixed the problem.

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