(Topic ID: 283944)

RAZA Pre-order Club: A Cautionary Tale

By NoMonkey

10 months ago


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  • Latest reply 21 hours ago by ronaldvg
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“Which Edition Did You Order”

  • Arcade 27 votes
    52%
  • Xtra 25 votes
    48%

(52 votes)

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Post #2440 Link to SEC filings story. Posted by BMore-Pinball (56 days ago)

Post #2468 Story of SEC indictment Posted by DakotaMike (56 days ago)

Post #2527 DR never owned the Zidware entity per report. Posted by wcbrandes (56 days ago)

Post #2676 Summary of DR outlandish things. Posted by TheFamilyArcade (55 days ago)

Post #2864 Charging back a RAZA preorder Posted by Mr68 (48 days ago)


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#1150 5 months ago
Quoted from noitbe1:This update says basically there is no update and, beside of the tone with « happy birthday » mention, it feels like RM is frustrated as well and is hiding things regarding probably manufacturing problems.
They are really acting like they no longer trust on their Raza and no longer root (no joke) for their first pin and maybe are already thinking of the 2nd title hoping the boat will be still be afloat...
Seriously, i don’t think they could survive to a big fail regarding their first pin, they HAVE to make it right...

They are out of $$. Id have my calendar set for june 1, to get that refund.

#1179 5 months ago
Quoted from littlecammi:

If this latest message means they are just trying to get away from RAZA and move on to a game they feel will sell better, then they can issue refunds to those who bail and announce that there are too few orders left to justify making RAZA. The remaining few (including Zidware people) would then be given the choice of a refund or changing their order to the next game. You might ask why not just offer everyone this option now? Two reasons: (1) because they want to blame dropping RAZA on the people taking a refund, and (2) they intend to price the next game a lot higher now that they know they priced RAZA too low.
It's much worse if they are trying to get out from under RAZA but have no plans to move on to another title.

They can announce 20 titles, they still have no way to manufacture 1 though. It will be RAZA all over again, and again. The 5 days of announcements!!

#1180 5 months ago
Quoted from NashtyFunk:

Crazy is always in the eye of the beholder. Granted buying a pin shouldn’t carry the same risk of say buying crypto or investing in stocks, but that’s how I have to look at this one.
Either I’m going to get something that I think is awesome, or I’m gonna be stuck holding an empty bag. Either way there’s nothing I can do to change what the eventual outcome is going to be, so might as well just ride it out.

What if you get it, and its not awesome, no parts to be had and nobody wants to buy it from you? Because that is in your future.

#1186 5 months ago
Quoted from wrb1977:

The labor shortage is very real because “someone” thought it would be a good idea to increase and extend unemployment benefits til God knows when and as a result many people are making more money sitting at home than they would be working. It is a major problem right now.

So its the govt fault dr fails. I can see that actually, how many small businesses were put out of business, by "govt" this past year..

This is not why dr will ultimately fail though.

#1188 5 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Appreciate your input and advise. We will let you know how it goes. Thanks again.

Oops, thought I was posting in the reality thread to be honest. Either way...

#1190 5 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

No worries. Join your reality and have fun!

I like to spread reality to the masses, and it seems, some are waking up

#1197 5 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Good for you making your own decisions! Never figure out how this ever became personal buyers vs the non-buyers debate? Dislike the company but hard to see how this needs to be personal against us or our decision. Odd though not concerning.

Because we've seen people burned for 10s of thousands before by pinball con artists. JPOP is a suspect #1 in that category, but RM took him in, so they and dr are tied at the hip. People need to know the history. How inconvenient it might be.

Also, not personal. I dont think anyone doesn't want you to get a pin, but many people dont understand how anyone other than initial ZIDWARE buyers would touch this with a 10 foot pole. FOMO and potential scarcity make people do funny things with money.

Ive asked you before, what are the signs YOU see that makes you believe this will happen?

#1198 5 months ago
Quoted from wrb1977:

I would never try to convince anyone on what to do in this situation. You have to make the decision that’s best for you. That being said, here are my honest thoughts...
Deeproot did not sell as many RAZAs as they initially were hoping, but I don’t think they were surprised by it because of the negativity surrounding them, their many failed launches and delays, and the many other failed start-ups.
The price point for RAZA was insane considering the features. There is twice as much “stuff” as a Stern Pro which costs more. The RAZA Ae was $5899 if I remember correctly. They were never going to make much money on this title at that price point which leads me to my next point.
They no longer care how many RAZAs they manufacture and ship. Whether it’s 130 or 30, as long as they deliver.
The whole point of RAZA is proof of concept, manufacturing, delivery, customer service, and everything that comes after customers have the pins in their homes. If they pull this off, even with a very small production run, the tide will turn in deeproot’s favor. Which leads me to my final point.
They already disclosed future standard pricing. If I remember correctly it was $8k for the Ae and $13k for the Xtra. At those price points, with a title like Goonies, there will be real money to be made. And those price points are very competitive right now, especially when you consider all the additional features a deeproot pin has that their competition doesn’t.
In summary, RAZA is just to get their feet wet, learn the ropes, and show what they can do from a design and gameplay standpoint...not make money...that will come later “if” they can pull this off. I know one thing, if RAZA actually ships and deeproot survives, you will never be able to get a pin again with that many features at that price point and I’ll be happy to own one.
Final thought...I’d say we can put to rest the idea that this is some sort of elaborate scam. Deeproot already made whole some Zidware customers and are now offering RAZA refunds to those that want them...enough said.

Lol

Quoted from wrb1977:

I would never try to convince anyone on what to do in this situation. You have to make the decision that’s best for you. That being said, here are my honest thoughts...
Deeproot did not sell as many RAZAs as they initially were hoping, but I don’t think they were surprised by it because of the negativity surrounding them, their many failed launches and delays, and the many other failed start-ups.
The price point for RAZA was insane considering the features. There is twice as much “stuff” as a Stern Pro which costs more. The RAZA Ae was $5899 if I remember correctly. They were never going to make much money on this title at that price point which leads me to my next point.
They no longer care how many RAZAs they manufacture and ship. Whether it’s 130 or 30, as long as they deliver some. They probably wouldn’t mind many getting refunds as there simply isn’t any money to be made on this title. If it seems like they are almost encouraging refunds, well, maybe they are?
The whole point of RAZA is proof of concept, manufacturing, delivery, customer service, and everything that comes after customers have the pins in their homes. If they pull this off, even with a very small production run, the tide will turn in deeproot’s favor. Which leads me to my final point.
They already disclosed future standard pricing. If I remember correctly it was $8k for the Ae and $13k for the Xtra. At those price points, with a title like Goonies, there will be real money to be made. And those price points are very competitive right now, especially when you consider all the additional features a deeproot pin has that their competition doesn’t.
In summary, RAZA

I would never try to convince anyone on what to do in this situation. You have to make the decision that’s best for you. That being said, here are my honest thoughts...
Deeproot did not sell as many RAZAs as they initially were hoping, but I don’t think they were surprised by it because of the negativity surrounding them, their many failed launches and delays, and the many other failed start-ups.
The price point for RAZA was insane considering the features. There is twice as much “stuff” as a Stern Pro which costs more. The RAZA Ae was $5899 if I remember correctly. They were never going to make much money on this title at that price point which leads me to my next point.
They no longer care how many RAZAs they manufacture and ship. Whether it’s 130 or 30, as long as they deliver some. They probably wouldn’t mind many getting refunds as there simply isn’t any money to be made on this title. If it seems like they are almost encouraging refunds, well, maybe they are?
The whole point of RAZA is proof of concept, manufacturing, delivery, customer service, and everything that comes after customers have the pins in their homes. If they pull this off, even with a very small production run, the tide will turn in deeproot’s favor. Which leads me to my final point.
They already disclosed future standard pricing. If I remember correctly it was $8k for the Ae and $13k for the Xtra. At those price points, with a title like Goonies, there will be real money to be made. And those price points are very competitive right now, especially when you consider all the additional features a deeproot pin has that their competition doesn’t.
In summary, RAZA is just to get their feet wet, learn the ropes, and show what they can do from a design and gameplay standpoint...not make money...that will come later “if” they can pull this off. I know one thing, if RAZA actually ships and deeproot survives, you will never be able to get a pin again with that many features at that price point and I’ll be happy to own one.
Final thought...I’d say we can put to rest the idea that this is some sort of elaborate scam. Deeproot already made whole some Zidware customers and are now offering RAZA refunds to those that want them...enough said.

I had a whole wordy response ready, then figured, why? dr overpromised and still have not delivered anything.

They have spent millions and delivered nothing. They could spend that and still be as inept. Its crazy that you are looking at future pins to save them, when dr wont deliver on the first pin. I know nothing about pinball, but I know that making awesome animations is way easy, pinball is hard though. Yall throwing good money after bad. Take the bailout. I guarantee, you will find one of these in the wild if they are ever released.

#1252 5 months ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:I do too. Who said that?
I just said he's not "hiding" problems just because he doesn't tell you in detail each single one they have.
It is obvious they have problems, otherwise the game would be out in the wild.
The rest, yeah, well... they should propably share something, but they haven't up until now, so why start now?
And if their problems are bigger then they made it sound it would also fall back on them.
But time IS money indeed...

Lying by ommision is a thing.

#1253 5 months ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/bro-please-bro-just-try-it
I'm sorry, sometimes I forget I'm talking to boomers on here

Yet, you are the forgetful one! lay off the rips son!

1 month later
#1534 3 months ago
Quoted from Makakka:

Had a nightmare tonight my mobile was trickstolen on the street.
Dream analysis is saying its the fear of a massive trust breach and disappointment. Its the fear we get another disfunctional update another bummer.

You are into some weird voodoo shit lol

1 week later
#1546 3 months ago
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

A large pre-order waiting list of people that weren’t interested at half the price for the whole month of ordering opportunity, but are in line now to pay double? Sounds like RM all right.

Makakka lives his life by tides and moons and whatnot. Whats in that German beer!

15
#1556 3 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Being a bit hard on yourself. Most understand this would be a long run option. Kind of like Halloween in a way. Most will wait 12 plus months till that game ships likely more but it will come eventually. I had no expectations this game would launch fast and still feel its well worth the wait.

This is nothing like Halloween lol. Spooky has delivered pins and will continue to deliver pins, on schedule.

dr has delivered nothing. To compare the 2 is laughable, and youve been around longer than me.

#1558 3 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Huh? I simply said he will likely wait 12 months for Halloween also. Try not to read to much into it.

But, RAZA was announced and promised how many years ago? Comparing another potential 12 month delay for RAZA from dr that has produced notta, with an announced schedule from a boutique manufacturer that has delivered in time, multiple times is just not a real comparison. Surely, you understand that.

#1616 3 months ago
Quoted from Fulltilt:Yeah, Ben’s negative comments showing increasing vitriol towards John , and therefore DeepRoot, continue to flow.
That’s in part due to his going to look like an even bigger dolt if they ship a machine.

No, because if they do, he will really be able to dig into it and rip it apart lol. From Arm micro controls to insert descriptions that give no info. Overall, a mess under glass. No, he wont be the dolt, even if it is released. Lets hope it is!

#1625 3 months ago
Quoted from Mbecker:

Interesting.. I guess I hadn’t known or realized AMH came AFTER the zidware debacle. Yes - the whole coming to your house to build the game was over-the-top .. there were a lotta interesting years there. Probably why DR gets so much attention- it’s about the last pinball drama going on right now. Still a lotta Lewbowski EAs out there but very slowly the games are getting to them and DP is coming around. What else is left?

AMH was designed and built on a $50,000 budget and just goes to show how big a cluster this really is.

#1647 3 months ago
Quoted from Frax:

Oh my god, has it really been almost 10 years?

Yea. Not 6 months.

#1648 3 months ago
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

That poster proves how bat shit crazy Jpop is. And why Ben ran away screaming. And why everyone else should have. “Mystery Mechs”, “super goodie bag”, DIY pinball kit, “play the trailer”, “Two Shooters”. Jesus H. Christ, stop the madness.

Blinders. Denial, and hope. dr said NO preorders. They ripped off a whole nother bunch of people.

#1679 89 days ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

You keep saying Yelobird that you only care about eventually getting the game, and that none of the other stuff matters. Except that it's not enough to just get the game, you need to be able to get spare parts when stuff breaks. You need to be able to get technical support, especially with a brand new platform. And so deeproot piball needs to still exist to get that stuff.
Just talk to Heighway Alien owners about what happens when the boutique manufacturer of your bespoke game goes belly up.

You are wasting your time. If they cant see the games arent coming, they certainly dont care about service after the fact. Blows my mind.

#1772 87 days ago
Quoted from littlecammi:

What do the RAZA pre-order guys think of a RAZA pre-order guy who hopes that Deeproot fails and goes bankrupt - but only after he gets his own RAZA delivered ? Figuring the fewer Deeproot games that are ever produced the more his rare RAZA will be worth?

I bet most pre-orders want this. Irony.

#1820 85 days ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

Oh I agree, this situation is very LOL all right! But I don't think we're laughing for the same reasons. And I do have a hard time believing that at least few RAZA pre-order people aren't just a smidge bothered by the lack of communication or the continuing delays.
Part of the reason I even post here is because I was very nearly a pre-order person myself. I had the game in my cart and everything, but I decided against it at the last moment. So part of my interest is in imagining what I'd be going through if I had actually completed that order, and I certainly wouldn't be a happy camper!

Replace your name with any of the deniers, thats what you would be going through.

#1824 85 days ago
Quoted from wamonkey:

Who said we are not bothered by it - I would say quite the contrary, but what can you do. It is a gamble on a small deposit now and that is what it has been for a while. Very concerned...but what can you do?
Hard not to believe Ben Heck this thing died a while ago no one called the coroner to confirm the time of death or notify the next of kin.

I do sometimes forget its a small deposit, albeit a deposit that dr said they would never take.

My worry would be if I actually had to follow through and purchase the pin. With no service after the sale, good luck.

#1831 84 days ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

Sorry Iceman, I guess I was feeling a bit honery at the time

Horny, or ornery?

#1839 83 days ago
Quoted from wamonkey:

Oh trust me - I would be worried to just pay up without seeing something.
Hard not to think with this missed deadline that this is not good. I heard the idea By Kenada that it’s a sample to bring people in for the investment, and the lack of a response kind of underwhelmed.
Who knows…

Problem is, they have missed EVERY deadline. If you can still get your deposit back, I would. This is a shit show, of epic proportions.

#1847 82 days ago
Quoted from ThePinballCo-op:

My post was offensive and angry?
I thought I just made a jokey joke.
Oh well. Agree to disagree!

Vermont, you offend everyone!

#1852 82 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

“Main guys still have jobs and working away on future titles”
“Stern has put a stranglehold on the supply chain. “

Lol! Wasnt Robert going to put Stern out of business. Looks like its the other way around(amongst other reasons). Irony...

#1872 82 days ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Well, if that's Deeproot, all I can say is, it's about [email protected]#*ing time.

Huh? Where you been the past month?

17
#1879 80 days ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

No, only new podcasts with old interviews with Robert, cut to be the ultimate troll episodes.

Those are his words. Not anyone elses.

#1883 80 days ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

It‘s cut into a monologue.
And yes RM said all that, there has nothing been altered. But we know all that (old stuff) and it‘s brought up every day, so there is no value in that podcast other then sheer trolling for entertainment purposes.

Everything about dr is for entertainment, just not the entertainment we were expecting. Thats ok, we have half a dozen pin companies actually producing pins that entertain, but none of those companies can bring the same entertainment value to Pinside.

Also, not everyone has heard these statements, so its a public service really.

#1886 80 days ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

I missed that "public service" part. Is Kaneda now transmitting podcasts into the past or for whom is this helpful at this point with orderbanks closed for 7 months?
Fact is, there is no new information. And for the sole hypothetical customer that ordered a game from DR without knowing about all the broken promises, well... he doesn't know that promises, so he doesn't care. He/ She will also never read what you wrote and don't listen to Kanedas podcast either.

Whats your point?

dr still wont deliver, is my point. Care to refute?

#1890 80 days ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

My point is, for whom is this information helpful, besides for you to troll?
Noone argues that Deeproot didn't deliver (yet); we all know that.
It's just shouting "he's dead" for several hours after the funeral is over is annoying.

I already told you. Some people who put deposits down had no idea how much of a shitshow this is. Now they do and they are grateful and actually understand the reality of the situation. Others have yet to come to that conclusion/delusion...

#1894 80 days ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

Ok, I'm corrected. (Partially. This guy just ignored the negative nancy.)
I'm glad this guys life got so much better, now that he's in the know and can doubt his purchase every day.

As you are, deep down... We know it...

#1909 78 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

This thread should be lighting up soon….

Shes a doozy!! I guess its best to pay employees, all while taking millions in PPP $$$$ Legal issues could arise lol.

And go!

#1920 78 days ago
Quoted from adamross:I too hope some day I have so much money that I can use it as toilet paper.

Or in RMs case, other people money..

#1928 78 days ago
Quoted from frankmac:

This update “SUCKS”!!!!!

Meh, its the update we expected, a non-update..

#1929 78 days ago
Quoted from frankmac:

I will have my “Retro Atomic ~ULTRAMAN ~ before RAZA..

Dude, you are going to have shit not even invented yet, before RAZA

#1932 78 days ago
Quoted from Yesh23:

lawsuit with investors.....not going to end well

I wonder how many of those investors, current and former employees lurk here, watching, waiting.

#1968 74 days ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

[quoted image]
LOL. Man, no one has a sense of humor around pinside these days.
And if you've been following the thread, then you know my meme was on point!

Everyone is looking for a reason to be offended these days..

#1970 74 days ago
Quoted from NashtyFunk:

RAZA has been racing my TBL. Cointaker just took the final payment on that, so I'm guess it's going to win.
Now it's RAZA vs Ultraman.
Next will be RAZA vs Godzilla.
After that...maybe RAZA vs Ritchie's first JJP title.....

Raza vs Pins based on movies that haven't even been scripted yet!

#1997 71 days ago
Quoted from wamonkey:

Seriously - over $100K in deposits - maybe...
Call me a fool but I will not spend hundreds to get my $600 back - It was a bet, I lost, move on. Shit I have dumped more then that into a restore of a pinball and never recovered it.
I genuinely thought the theme was interesting, I liked the art, etc. I did not look at this as some FOMO limited edition non-playing Magic Girl to make $$$ on.

Exactly, those who out a deposit down as a bet. With all of the previous info out there, that's all this was, a bet.

#2003 71 days ago
Quoted from transprtr4u:

missed something .... is it official that they are done ?
or just more speculation !

Just more speculation!

10
#2054 70 days ago
Quoted from kklank:

Wait a second…….Ben, we’re you going to tell everybody you guys were best buds?? Lol.
Interesting.

Umm, it's common knowledge that Ben and Jpop worked together. Until JPOP, well, JPOOPed. Ben dumped him, teamed with Spooky and actually produced a pin.

Now, you're all caught up.

#2056 70 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

And I thought we all loved to rehash Every word/event in RAZA history or is that only select events. None the less seemed like a happy team of creators.

Clearly, a big time RAZA believer had no idea that many people around here knew Ben and Jpop worked together. I'm sorry I had to be the one to inform him that we all knew this was effed long ago, where as he may just now be researching that, and finding out for himself. Others have.

#2057 70 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

And I thought we all loved to rehash Every word/event in RAZA history or is that only select events. None the less seemed like a happy team of creators.

Wait, when did YOU find out that Ben and JPOP worked together? Just today?

Maybe you are also researching now?

#2063 70 days ago

Yes, how may I help you? Need another history lesson lol.

#2064 70 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Sorry the research department is in the other thread. I kid…. You guys have fun

I say again, some members clearly have NOT researched this. Dont shoot the messenger, RM has your $$$, not me..

#2069 70 days ago
Quoted from mrbillishere:

OK, so let me see if I have got this straight... About 8 days ago deepRoot sends their customers a periodic update, and in that update they indicated that they are involved in a lawsuit.
Then two days ago-ish the pinside sleuths determine that because they (deepRoot) have removed their presence from social media and LinkedIn, they must be closing down as opposed to hardening their defenses while litigation occurs.
Hmmmmm

Well that stuff, plus RM removal from some leadership positions, although some people said that was normal, so I don't know, but timing sure is suspect.

Not to mention, dr may not even own the RAZA IP to begin with. The other possible IP holder stated, "Let the courts decide". RAZA predates dr, so it's entirely possible dr developed this pin, wholly unaware there might be an IP problem to begin with, relying solely on jpops word..

#2071 70 days ago
Quoted from Mbecker:

True but he also stated he wasn’t suing.. so that doesn’t seem to be the lawsuit subject?

Yep, just pointing out yet another possible "duh" move by dr.

#2083 69 days ago
Quoted from NoQuarters:I think you might be referencing this post on the page one of the thread ? His deal - but yeah that's quite a big bet.

Busted.

#2088 69 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Do you Really think I would share Any of my actual purchase decisions with you or this group lololol. Yes I bought 16 games and paid double list value for Extra Led lights. Lol. You guys really need to stop worrying about every one else. Truly mind blowing how many hours of your life you have invested in this witch hunt. Go do something productive or spend time with family. I assure you all we will let you know how this plays out.

We are doing the public a service, by educating and warning them.

Some are grateful.

Why lie about your pin purchases? You clearly stated you bought 2 xtras, did you lie then to sound cool, or are you lying now, to sound smart? At least we all agree it's a mess!

#2137 69 days ago
Quoted from BigBalls:

Wish we we’re at a bar next to each other right now.

What would you do?

Nothing.

#2155 68 days ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

Just posting what I may know or not towards RAZA. Anyone in on it can decide for themselves. I will be around to guide groups if they seek out my pinball knowledge. Which is what I am doing now. There are likely a number of new pinball upstarts in 2022 with games. The waters are not cold anymore! Just like new Fathom games, & others in the pipeline.

No offense, but you keep offering your services. 1. They aren't going to take you up on it, and 2. Why the eff would you tie yourself to this disaster?

#2196 66 days ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

What I am saying is if you think Raza is totally dead you could be wrong in the long term. Only if Deep Root goes under, or if someone buys out the remains & shelves everything that was done over the years. We find out that Raza still needs more money to get it fully working (no pinbar), & fully coded.
A new upstart is likely to start with 1 or more other pinball projects of their own to get their name going. Raza if available & money backing could be done when ready. Either a small amount 100, or 1000+ run. Most new companies will follow the model of a title in production run only once & done. Move on to the next title for production, & never go back to it.
So if you are following there is likely 1 - 5 new companies getting into the pinball field for 2022. Not hard to believe with past history & the increased demand going on all over the world. Also you would think that all the big players will announce more production & titles soon moving forward. Dutch Pinball should increase their production even more & plan on another title next year. Homepin is a wild card for next year.

Dude stop. WTF would anybody buy dr, just to scrap everything. You don't make much sense man.

dr is not hiring you.

#2197 66 days ago
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

It seems like nothing short of a personal phone call from Robert stating that the games will not be made will convince you... or would you still doubt that and still just wait indefinitely? Deeproot is dead, and Robert isn't going to state this plainly any time soon, or possibly ever. Sorry man.

This thread is an interesting study case in denial.

#2220 66 days ago
Quoted from wamonkey:

I think they should close down the website, take down the option for people to see people's info.
They have scrubbed their presence from elsewhere if they want to keep in touch with buyers for whatever reason create a private Facebook users group which has been mentioned before.

If only dr still had a fb page!!

#2221 66 days ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

There's nothing worth buying. No one needs the toxicity, debt, lies, and BS that come along with this title. There's no value. Jpop isn't a brand that can move product. He's an anchor.

Make sure you don't give them money until they can prove they have a factory & have games in boxes ready to ship.

They can barely get all their orders built due to parts shortages.

They still owe 100's of EA's their games. They need to make those buyers whole before taking more money for another game.

While this person seems to command respect for his pinball work, he seems pretty out of touch with the realities on the ground, on multiple fronts.

15
#2242 66 days ago
Quoted from kklank:

These machines can still be made. Time will tell.

By which employees? The ones who are furloughed, or the ones who didn't get paid? Serious question.

-2
#2270 65 days ago
Quoted from kklank:

No interest in answering a single fucking question you ask me.

Then quit posting stupid shit, that begs the questions, to be answered.

You said they will be built. I'm assuming by you, since you can't answer the question...

#2271 65 days ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

I agree a nice looking pinball machine. If the samples & info became available. The first thing that would be done is to play test & tweak the design a little I think for the ramps, mechs, farris wheel. Leave the art alone. Make sure full rule set is ready to go. Anyone going forward would do this ASAP, & not waste a lot of time. If the worst happens & we never see this game made I hope the prototypes go to a museum so they can be seen.
There is still many things we do not know from Deep Root or their employees. How many playfields were made, cabinets, parts, etc. You would think there has to be something, & not nothing with all the millions & staff there all these years.

That's what we all have said "You would think, they have something after all the $$$ spent"

They have lawsuits and people's money, that is all.

#2272 65 days ago
Quoted from pinballrockstar:

Full of armchair wrestlers here,i like to stay positive,that’s why I only come here once a month…
Shall we open a new topic for the people who think the outcome will be positive!?

Great idea, so here ya go! Post away!

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/dr-some-positive-vibes#post-6439344

#2277 65 days ago
Quoted from littlecammi:

They just hope to somehow get their game before deeproot pulls the plug. They Figure the fewer RAZAs produced the more their rare game will be worth.

Could you imagine being someone like this? As long as I get mine, and there a some obvious culprits.

#2296 65 days ago
Quoted from kklank:

Keep begging for your questions to be answered.
I simply won’t answer a fucking question you give me.
You’re not worth it.
You called me out in another thread. I don’t even communicate on that thread EVER. You have zero class in that respect.
Keep attacking. The more you speak, the less credibility you have on this thread and on Pinside.
I placed a pre-order. That’s why I’m here. Did you???
If not, why are you here? To educate me and everyone else about DeepRoot and how to avoid future scams for the good of the hobby? Please……………stop.
I come here to be positive and hopeful with others like me that made an investment with actual money. It’s my hobby and it’s enjoyable to talk with others that are in the same position. Whether the Raza get made or not. There’s no secret agenda. No insider information.
Why are you here? What….to “tell me how it is”?
That’s laughable……..seriously…….it’s laughable.

Huh. So a non-answer, means you don't have any idea how they could be built.

Losing cred? I and others have seen this as a joke since day one and tried to warn people. You on the other hand cheer dr and post supposed insider info that the games will be built, yet won't disclose what you know. Who has no cred again?

#2315 65 days ago
Quoted from kklank:

Keep rambling. It’s no working. You’re time is up. Time to go back to the DR thread. Feel free to talk negative about myself or pinsiders that pre-ordered on the other thread. That’s your style.
You sir…..have lost all credibility.
Do you deny calling me out in the other thread? Seriously……what is wrong with you.
Have you placed a pre-order???
Yeah…….I didn’t think so.
You have zero value in this thread.

Yea, I probably did, you clearly deserved it. It's nuts to think people like yourself think I don't want you to get a game. Of course we do, it's just seems completely obvious it won't happen. Zidware 2.0. This thread will soon be re-titled, RAZA post-scammed.

To be clear, I hope you and every buyer get your game. I don't have your money.

#2324 64 days ago
Quoted from kklank:I deserved it huh. You keep telling yourself that while you go back to the DR thread to justify your inability to show some decent etiquette.

Can you read? Do you comprehend the words I type. I HOPE you and every buyer get your game.

That etiquette?

12
#2335 64 days ago
Quoted from BertoDRINK1:Exactly, just Trolls doing what they do in every thread.

Everyone was a troll who called out jpop and zidware 1.0. Everyone was troll when Predator was being produced, without license. Everyone was a troll for stating DPs plans with a second contract manufacturer was just not going to work. Everyone is a troll in this thread, for pointing out the obvious.

Until they are proven right.

I'll take troll over sucker at worst, naive and uneducated at best.

And I still have yet to see any of you point out a single positive aspects about this that would lead you to believe all is good, despite the mountain if evidence. Care to be the first? If you can, I won't visit this thread again!

-1
#2338 64 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Thanks your awesome best to you.

RM, is that you?
BEST lol

You have a wide open opportunity to have me remove myself from your thread, and yet, you can't come up with one positive peice of news. 10 years 21,000 posts and NOT ONE positive aspect of this debacle. Come on man, JUST ONE!

#2343 64 days ago
Quoted from transprtr4u:

AND HE WILL BE BACK IN 4-3-2-1

Just, 1.

#2344 64 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Yep, you have a wonderful day.

You too, hopefully today brought you the BEST news you have heard in awhile!

#2345 64 days ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

It would be nice if Deep Root was more open with their customers. Show them what parts are there, & what state of production is going on. He needs to be more transparent about his problems, & what is taking place. You would think that with what he has stated that there are cabinets, playfields, backglass, & all the other stuff needed for production. All he has to do is show some of this stuff needed to get games going, & not actual line work or production processes.
If he still remains silent that is further evidence that nothing is really being produced the last 8 months. If he has not telling the truth on what is actually going on. Get a good PR person to try & get out of this mess. Own up to your mistakes, & look for people to get Raza pins built. I still cannot figure out if UL, ULC, & other safety approval is the problem or not. Same with there should be 70 - 90% of parts needed to build games even with parts constraints. Even myself & a few others in a production team would have pins either fully built out or waiting for missing stuff. 100 Raza build should not be a hard thing to do.
I am still not a buyer, not looking for a Deep Root position. Just would like to see the pins actually get built for people to enjoy.

I have to ask, have you actually read this thread? The things you mention were brought up like 15,000 posts ago. Maybe 18,000 posts ago?

#2347 64 days ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

Are you sure it was that many posts ago?

Nope. 19,000? I'll have to start back at #1 and go from there. Maybe 20,199?

#2349 64 days ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

Was this in 1992?

Got me, I'm humbled.

It was a mere 7 years ago, and 24,000 posts ago when RAZA was hyped by Ice Ice baby.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jpop-update-thread%e2%80%a6%e2%80%a6%e2%80%a6%e2%80%a6%e2%80%a6mg-raza-and-aiw%e2%80%a6

Thanks for calling me out and forcing me to correct my inaccuracies.

Best...

#2350 64 days ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

Was this in 1992?

Lol. Post #8 PDX monkey was already like WTF. Ice, said no problem, over blown hah. A Combined 45,000 posts later. Not 1 positive aspect. I really thank you, this is going to start a whole new discussion.

Screenshot_20210813-222816_Chrome (resized).jpg
#2352 64 days ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

Yep, no shortage of comments that haven't/won't age well around here.

The fact that it was called out as BS, on post #8, of a thread that has 24,000 responses, that predates the dr disaster with 21,000 is just mind blowing that people went in on this AFTER American Pinball dumped him asap. What a bullet they dodged. Just nuts really.

I wonder how many current RAZA pre orders had no idea .

I'll post again for clarity.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jpop-update-thread%e2%80%a6%e2%80%a6%e2%80%a6%e2%80%a6%e2%80%a6mg-raza-and-aiw%e2%80%a6

#2354 64 days ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

Yikes, I guess I should’ve ordered only 100 of these. Missed that forum, dang. I was rejected as a distributor too. Maybe I can start building these in my garage.

Contact RM, he could use your services! Hell, build 1 and you are 100% ahead!

#2356 64 days ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

Build 10 and I am way ahead.
Build 100 and I can retire.
Sign me up.

Line starts here! Lots a $$$ ready to throw down! Get in, before you can't!

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jpop-update-thread%e2%80%a6%e2%80%a6%e2%80%a6%e2%80%a6%e2%80%a6mg-raza-and-aiw%e2%80%a6

#2358 64 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Actually Was thanks! My son was promoted to Senior Chief in the Navy. Youngest guy to achieve that rank to date. Hell of a great day thanks so much for asking! Life is good.

That is a great accomplishment! Congrats to him and yourself, that's a hella great job.

#2379 63 days ago
Quoted from benheck:

AP should have kept John on as an art director. They surely could have used one. But the scam was probably too great a wound to overcome (plus he's un-manageable)

Now you are saying they should have kept him? I'd think you would give them a little respect since they dumped JPOP once they learned if his toxicity and have a similar rep for service after the fact, much like Spooky. Also, a very attractive entry price point. HW is fun, but I also like the theme and cars....

Like Spooky they are growing and have a great rep.

#2415 57 days ago

Surely no employees means these are being built, right?

#2420 57 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Surely a Forum says no employees so that must be, right?

Well, former employees that still know some furloughed employees as well. But true, this employee did say it on the internet

#2427 57 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

So "some employees" translates to "no employees" based on a "possible assumed employee" equals fact. Gotcha! Totally makes sense now.....

Do you have an insider saying different? Besides RM?

Didn't think so.

Anyway, I hope you get your game!

#2428 57 days ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

Not lying but certainly a sensationalist on many topics. Typical video blogger.

How would one go about sensationalizing that?

Furloughed employees, yes or no.

Consensus among former employees is no. Pinball insiders is no.

#2430 57 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

No I prefer to not follow assumption, rumor, or theory's. Hope I get my game also thanks.

What about facts? Facts are employees are furloughed, per dr employee.

#2471 56 days ago
Quoted from hank527:

Where are the people who kept defending RM now?
The problem with the pro Deeproot people is some are respected and ultimately lead to others getting burnt. It is truly sad. I lost to Zidware. I’m hopeful everyone learns from this and as a community we do not let it happen again.

Your kinda new around here, aren't ya? Settle in, another scam will come along, and new (and some old) suckers will bite. Zidware 3.0 possibly?

#2472 56 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

So you’re saying there’s a chance gif

Look, despite overwhelming evidence, everyone is presumed innocent, even RM

/Sarcasm

10
#2476 56 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I am surprised to see this come down when it did. Figured it might take longer to play out. Although all it took was a few investment advisers that didn’t like the updates they were getting after placing their clients money with the 575 fund.
It’s not just Mueller, this is going to have far reaching consequences for all of those people. The people that dropped $58 mill into the fund had no idea about pinball and their advisors are gonna pay the price too.
$58 million. Like I’ve said many times before, pinball was just the sideline story to the much BIGGER picture
It looks like Bobby is in BIG trouble.
Whatever assets there are will be sold off and $$ collected to repay the investors in whatever way that means.
While it appears DR and Bobby are finished let’s see who and if someone steps into the void to pick up these games
How about those PPP funds? Don’t see this one ending well.

Wait, what? Didn't you say the 575 fund was untouchable? Things were in the works behind the scenes?

#2494 56 days ago
Quoted from benheck:

Time to change the name of this topic.
"RAZA Mourners Club" maybe?
Enjoy fighting over the two prototypes auctioned off by the SEC.

And change the hater/troll/sewer thread to "dr Warner's club"

#2523 56 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Pretty petty don’t you think?
I never understood the obsession with some people getting off on others losing out on something as trivial as a pinball machine.
“It’s just pinball”
You want to hate Robert or Jpop, knock yourselves out. I’m pretty sure that’s unanimous.
But to continue to shove it up pre order guys asses I think says more about you guys I think.
But if it makes you feel better and enhances your lives in some way then keep it up.
Klank, Yelo and the others like myself will just take it in stride.

Lol, you get more hilarious with every post man. Nobody wanted to see them fail, but it was clear they would, yet you and others said all is good, "Only the 4th inning" and some such crap. And you prove a great point, a fool and his money are soon parted. Yelo parted with 20,000 grand.

And he could have gotten out, but he wanted something rare to flip for profit. Not a good business plan. Whos the one that wanted them to fail, just after they got the games? You and Yelo for sure. I'm sure he'll have bought one to flip, for profit.

#2567 56 days ago
Quoted from kklank:

I can dish it out and I can take it as well. Let me have it. That’s cool. Lol.
You’re more than welcome to say I told you so.
This doesn’t make you a better person by rubbing someone’s face in it after the fact playing the armchair quarterback.
It kind of comes across as a dickish post with attitude and super self righteous. No?
Look I’m kidding. It’s a hobby. Nothing personal.
I lost money in this whole deal. What did you lose?
There are so many people on pinside that hide behind their avatar with no skin in the game and point fingers. I’ll say it again.
No Skin in the Game. But talk a lot of smack.
The only time I post a “dickish post” is when some dude posts some shit, acts like Nostradamus with Zero skin in the game.
Anything is easy if you’re not vested. Literally anything.
This one goes in the the loss column. Not a big deal. Move on to Haggis! Lol.
I’m sure you’re a terrific guy but do you or anybody like having someone look over your shoulder when you buy just about anything? Heck no.
That’s originally what this thread was designed for. Pre-order dudes talkin’ to pre-order dudes.
I gotta ask. Did you place a pre-order? Just curious. Did you have skin in the game? (And I don’t mean this in a malicious way of any kind).
Usually when I ask and someone doesn’t answer, it means no.
If you lost out like I did. I’m sorry you lost money as well.

I don't think you understand what an armchair quarterback is. We scripted this play years ago, not the day after the other shoe dropped. 3 people saw It coming and got out. 3.

10
#2808 50 days ago
Quoted from hank527:

Why? He was vocal at convincing others to support Deeproot. I like him as a person though his views were way skewed and he shares some responsibility in this mess.

Yelo was buying an investment, 100% and paid full for 2x xtras, hoping to get to the front of the line and get his pins before dr folded, making his pins the rarest.. He lost the bet, x2

#2810 50 days ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

But hey, he can get Stern’s version of the pinbar just announced today! Coming soon…advertisements and ability to order your bar food through it! Beer please..
[quoted image][quoted image]

I want a burrito, ordered through the SternBar(tm) and delivered by a local, highly rated Food truck.

#2811 50 days ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

But hey, he can get Stern’s version of the pinbar just announced today! Coming soon…advertisements and ability to order your bar food through it! Beer please..
[quoted image][quoted image]

Would you be so kind as to post this info Into the dr positive vibes thread? It may have sunk dr, but Stern is gonna give it a go, so that's a positive, right?

#2813 50 days ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

No positive here, less about pinball and more about other sources of revenue.

Dr positives, are actually negatives. As in, well, dr may have stolen from grandma, but there's a good chance, it wasn't from YOUR grandma

#2826 50 days ago
Quoted from Plungerboy:

I think you mean chimichanga........

DeadPools chimis did deliver!!

#2827 50 days ago
Quoted from kklank:

I’ve stated before that I knew I was taking a chance and rolling the dice. I also agree 110% that I have nobody to blame but myself. I lost out on Raza.
The thing I wasn’t aware of was that I had no idea RM was a thief.
I also have nobody to blame but myself for receiving an email that my Alien will be arriving any day now and I’m very excited because I rolled the dice. So I’m
1 for 2. I’m in no way suggesting that I know more than anybody else about pinball. Far from it, I just decide to take a chance.
I also bought into Haggis. I may lose my money there too. We’ll see.

And you deserve all that comes your way.

Serious question, do you know what hydrofoils and Andrew Heighway have in common? Have you fully read up on Alien and its pitfalls? I hear someone is looking to get out of TB,L you could be that lucky someone!

#2829 50 days ago
Quoted from kklank:

I keeping hearing this $750,000/month burn rate in terms of monthly payroll.
That seems really really high.
How many employees did rm have specifically at deep root pinball?

Read the whole sewer thread, as you come across as uneducated. As a vocal pre-order supporter, you probably would not have asked this question, if you had. We were asking the question when RM put that $$$ out there, which I guess he thought would impress? It didnt..

#2831 50 days ago

My bad. I have rights to the 4th dr game, TB. To Be Determined. I fat fingered this..

All pre order, kickstart, go fund me can be sent to: [email protected].

thx!

#2833 50 days ago
Quoted from kklank:

As I’ve already stated, I agree with you.
As for Alien, I’ve owned the original and now am getting the new one. It’s a terrific game.
I can see you don’t like to take a lot of risks because you own one game. That’s cool.
TB,L??? You mean The Big Lebowski?? I’ve owned 2 Lebowskis. That game is spectacular. Terrific code, just needs a little more depth.

Cool, I have yet to see either and Alien or TBL(Damn grammar Nazis when on a small kb) anyway. As far as 1 or 100 pins, I dont speculate on the value of pins. Youve got the $$$ to buy and sell on a whim, thats cool man. I prefer to not lose money...

24
#2926 46 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Tough to answer. For Me, (not speaking for others!) I made my decision and it was as easy as that. The emotion roller coaster you speak of (that I see) was the 30,000 plus posts of almost obsession. So if anything I felt no sorrow or remorse as I will simply buy a different toy. As for the “ugliness” you speak of yes there were a few that went over the top and oddly felt the need to make it personal with buying individuals which really was unnecessary. I admit I didn’t need to respond to a few of those individuals defensively but it was just simply Unnecessary to make this so personal! I nor Any DR Raza buyer took anyone’s money and I won’t be the guy to inappropriately poke the BHZA, Raza, Etc buyers for making a mistake. It’s just pinball. Just going to move on to the next game and enjoy time with family and friends.

You didn't make a mistake. You made a bet. You also lied. Why lie? I know you were hoping to get your game and have dr shut down, thus you bought 2. Quit trying to play the victim, you are as culpable as anybody in this thread if people lost money. And you'll do it again if history is any sort of judge.

#2962 46 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Yelo? Way too nice of a guy and I commend him for basically just letting it go while he gets piled on by the mob

Well, don't lie and you won't open your self up to ridicule. Simple really.

He would LOVED to gotten his 2 games and have dr close, making them"rarer". He would not have cared if you or anyone else got screwed. That is a shitty attitude.

#2963 46 days ago
Quoted from wesman:

Yeah....but that game overcame many hurdles for it finally to arrive at your doorstep. Not exactly the best counterpoint, like getting a Stern.
Besides why does your joy at getting a game need to illustrate again, that other people got cornholed? Is that a fun analogy to make?
(Somewhat illusory point, but I'm fortunate to live in an area of the country that isn't suffering to wildfires and hurricane induced flooding. Events that almost happen annually, sadly, at this point. Should I take joy in their suffering?
I never understand when people live in coastal areas, and then disasters occur seemingly year after year, but....I feel fortunate I don't suffer from those occurrences, and it's upsetting that someone's entire fucking HOUSE and everything in it, and those in it, can be lost. So a pinball game not getting to me, right now...not so much the worst thing.)

People CHOSE to get cornholed, you seem to be glossing over the fact that for years it was clear, NO WAY this would work(Check the math) so those who got shafted got it because they wanted it. Dec 2020 ring a bell FOMO?

#2972 46 days ago
Quoted from wesman:

I felt things were progressing. There were definite doubts when the group of 5 headed there, but after that occurred, Mueller released a patchwork of information that diminished some doubt, while creating some new doubt.
The site going online and preorder window occurring gave me more confidence.
I put money down feeling my initial chances were more likely than not likely. Months later, I'd never have thought this worst case scenario would exist. I saw enough to be skeptical, and saw some things to make me feel concerned, but as the months went by, that definitely shifted. But still, never thought this would be the end result last year this time.
Sucks...because I felt interesting changes could result from a company wanting to look at things differently. That was the idea I literally bought into.

Sorry man, but after jpop 1.0, after all the missed deadlines, the bragging about $$$$ spent and nothing to show for years( capped off by the 6 insiders, who made dr literally go back to the drawing board). If none of that was a red flag, then all the sudden a website pops up and you have 3 weeks to order and you STILL put money into this.

Well....

I am announcing my own TBD title. A slick website with buy it now checkout is getting launched real soon.

#2974 46 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

No clue what your personal issue is? Yes I bought two games but have said multiple times they were Not both for me. They were for Kklank and I though not sure Why that even matters. I also explained Why I wanted the game but you feel some odd need to spin it with some grand conspiracy of closing DR or rarity. It was a cool ass game, I bought one. Why is that such a huge confusion for you. Lol. The only shitty attitude I have is Why does everyone care so much what I buy or do with my money? Lol.

Huh, seems like it would have been so much easier to say that like 1 month ago lol.

If it were true of course. Anyway, glad you got your money back on your bet, so other people's fees can go up. Great job buddy!

#2976 46 days ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

Dude go grab a beer and cool down.
At this point these posts are redundant now and are adding no value.

Quoted from cpr9999:

Dude go grab a beer and cool down.
At this point these posts are redundant now and are adding no value.

Show me 1 post in this or the other thread that has value, besides comedic value? Remember, I tried to get anyone in this thread to list a positive about the Dr situation. Not one person replied. Dr has no value, so why would the posts? Anyway, I suspect this will all die down soon. People are getting money back and now playing the victim and that will get old..

#2989 45 days ago
Quoted from DoorCounty:

What the fuck dude - who made you judge, jury and executioner?
My fees go up every day because of deadbeats defaulting on CC and PPP loans.

Im not, RM is, you just happen to put your head willingly on the chopping block for him.

And now you can count the bettors, i mean pre-orders, amongst the deadbeats.

#2990 45 days ago
Quoted from Kneissl:.. if they did ship a couple games and you won, it would be a cool pinball art piece at least.

Exactly what many pre-order people were hoping for....

#3006 45 days ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

What I ask myself to humour me:
1. Could anyone of us actually do worse then Deeproot given 30 million dollars?
2. So if next, let‘s say Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk discover their love for pinball and try to get JPops „it’s nearly done, 4th time‘s the charm, srsly now“ games built, would they go broke too? - Reminds me of that Simpsons episode where Homer get‘s to design a car and the company immediately goes bancrupt.

Fastest way to become a millionaire? Start out as a billionaire and launch a pinball company!

#3025 45 days ago
Quoted from Bumper:

Yes, they do their best and the Early Achievers get a machine worth at least $12,000 for which they only paid $8,500 (without tax during that time).

That's all on paper, and there are many many EA's still waiting, and will continue to wait for years. Don't make it sound like this is some financial windfall for them lol.

#3121 43 days ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

Be appreciative it could be 0% like RAZA.
Or would you rather they fold shop and give in?

You should post this dr positive, in the positive vibes thread. Nothing says positive like "at least your aren't..."

#3122 43 days ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

So based on this logic you are saying F the EAs- claim bankruptcy now, reorganize and come back stronger position like PB/Aliens is doing. That is the easiest path for DP. And with a great game like Aliens proves people will buy again - same would happen for Lebowski pin.
Why slug it out for years to try to make whole on your commitments - just give up now? Dang that sounds to admirable.
Instead bash them into bankruptcy? Again while I get the past is not ideal (& we can bitch about it - but we can’t change it) the only thing we can change is how we move forward. DP is trying to do the right thing - albeit to slowly at least they are trying.
And DP is not in DR territory- not even close. DP has a manufacturing line producing games!
I just don’t get people. WTF
Bitch bitch bitch.

Maybe you can't as easily declare bunkruptcy as easily in Europe as you can in the states?

s6hdwntp7a701 (resized).jpg

#3127 42 days ago
Quoted from hank527:

Yep. A fool and his money can always charge it back. I'm happy for those getting money back though the problem is not over.
Many of us are still screwed by Jpop. Discover wouldn't let me charge back my Alien preorder from Heighway LE #2
We should all have each other's backs with these sham artists. Yet it is clear we do not.

If people would use even just a little common sense, they will see that many if these are scams. But some need to have the rare and newest. So we will always have scams and people getting scammed multiple times.

#3157 40 days ago

L no

Quoted from cpr9999:

Less people getting scammed these days if they use CC’s we just learned. Nice.

Still shows who the dum dums are lol

-1
#3158 40 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

This thread is finally dying when credit cards and other pins matter more.
Even Benny has given up and spit the bit

Lol, you still think dr was about pinball? I got a pin start up you should invest in. I know you are an easy mark

#3160 40 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Shows over, tickets refunded yet your still here heckling. Lol

Yep! Gotta warn the next generation, not to be dum dums.

So did you really get a refund, or are you lying?

#3163 40 days ago
Quoted from kklank:

Seriously…..can you just stop being so antagonistic.
Multiple people have asked you to stop or take it down a notch.

Why? Did you get ripped off? No, as you are so happy to tell the world you gambled and got a push from the house. 300 + retirees didn't, thanks to you.

So no. Drain this thread, but it will live on, as a warning too don't be dum or greedy and speculative.

#3164 40 days ago
Quoted from kklank:

Seriously…..can you just stop being so antagonistic.
Multiple people have asked you to stop or take it down a notch.

Riddle me this. Did you read all 20,000+ posts before Yelo bought your machine for you? Did you have any idea what a shit show it was, yet still allowed Yelo to once again use clout(and your cash) to try and jump ahead in line by fully paying? What's it like to lose 10gs when you have years of reality staring you in the face. Are you and Yelo still friends?

#3166 40 days ago
Quoted from kklank:

Blah blah blah.
I stopped reading after riddle me this.
Nobody listens to your garbage anymore………..Nobody.

No you didn't.

And no you didn't read these 20,000 posts.

Maybe still friends. Thanks for the response!

#3168 40 days ago
Quoted from kklank:

Didn’t read one word.
Thanks!

You are welcome. Glad you agree people need to be warned.

#3170 40 days ago
Quoted from kklank:

Again. Didn’t read a word. Blah blah blah.

Please don't take after Yelo. He lies. You read at least 1 word.

Anyhow, what's it like losing 10gs on this? Gotta hurt?

#3172 40 days ago
Quoted from kklank:

Are you still talking? It might be more productive to communicate elsewhere. Again, nobody is listening.

You are. How was your weekend? Get any over time in to keep the wife happy, after losing 10gs?

#3175 38 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

You are a complete buffoon. Whats wrong didn't get your "I told you so"?? KK nor I lost a single dollar but for some reason no matter how many times you read it you have to ask again. Grow up, shows over get on with your life. You look so completely foolish.

Lol, im foolish. Who thought they could defy "the math" and needed bailed out by the cc company? Anyway. Got any leads on the next rare shiny?

-2
#3204 32 days ago
Quoted from ZNET:

This is an interesting argument. I can certainly imagine the disreputable credit card banks utilizing this logic to rescind refunds.
Nevertheless, it's a specious argument. This is because refunds were essentially predicated upon delays as opposed to nondelivery. In other words, a buyer's deposit remained the consideration given in exchange for a nondelivered product. The fact that a buyer passed on one or more refund opportunities (while foolish) does not alter the immutable money for goods dynamic of the transaction.
The credit card companies can hang their hats on a variety of straightforward factors, particularly the long passage of time, to deny charge-backs. They probably don't need to dig deep into a refund time-line analysis to do so, if they're so inclined.
If a credit card company is consumer-oriented, all that will matter is that the deposit was taken and the product was not delivered (and never will be, given the SEC revelations and the closure of the deeproot facility). I imagine that credit card customers who regularly charge large sums to their cards will succeed, particularly with AMEX, whereas other cardholders will fail to recoup their deposits.

CC companies just pass the loss on to us. Thanks for gambling RAZA owners, non-buyers lost, you get your money back.

#3209 31 days ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

No refunds policy goes out the window when deeproot doesn’t deliver the goods in timely manner promised.

Whats a timely manner? Deeproots schedule or a Visa appointed bean counter who will see that there is "a" deeproot company still in existence and deny.

https://www.deeproot.com/

#3215 26 days ago
Quoted from Fulltilt:

Dang, Deeproot declined to refund my DR credits, not even for store credit. Man that sucks.

What store would you get credits for?

#3227 24 days ago
Quoted from Danzig:

After reading some of this, do y’all still wonder why the majority of pinball hobbyists consider Pinside toxic?

RM is the toxic one here. Not pinside.

#3232 23 days ago
Quoted from Fulltilt:

Robert Mueller has never posted on this thread... that I am aware of.
But I could be wrong... that wouldn't be a first time.

Here is relative. None of us would be here, in this thread, if it weren't for RM.

#3239 22 days ago

Scam people, old and young!

Everything too good to be true, but ya gotta disregard the math, young and old..

1 week later
#3243 14 days ago
Quoted from Danzig:

You overgrown children prove my point so easily.

Do you think DR was legit at any point? Remember, 300 retirees got scammed out of far more money than the people here did. I think it averages out to $190,000 per investor. RM and Jpoop suck and delivering pinball, but great at scams.

#3256 10 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

THat's like lesson 504 out of this whole thing.
The "lesson learned" is don't buy games that don't exist from companies that have produced nothing but promises and hot air.

That lesson will not be learned..

#3258 10 days ago
Quoted from NoQuarters:

Exactly!
Even the hot air wasn't very good on this one.... Holy Crappy Caper Batman.

That hot air was RM talking out of his ass.

#3268 8 days ago
Quoted from NashtyFunk:

I used my Citi Prestige Card. It used to be a great card. They got rid of a lot of the concierge stuff they used to have. I should have used AMEX.

No, you shouldn't have put money into this in the first place.

Maybe a hard and expensive lesson to learn. Serious question, given the facts, if the next new shiny appeared and the story was similar, would you buy in?

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