I'm not a pre-order but thank you for starting this thread, especially providing the Q and A from Deeproot. Well done.
I assume the Goodwill Deeproot people will be able to contribute to this thread and I look forward to hearing from them also.

Thread bump and best wishes to all.

I'd be more concerned whether it fit in the back of my vehicle or not.

I'm sorry if some of my criticisms in the other thread are upsetting. As some of you already know, I've been in a similar position so I can sympathise with the difficult ride that Pinside can be. It's good this thread exists for you guys and I'm being respectful of it.

I don't wish any of you harm and I'm very sincere about that. - Best wishes and Happy Holidays to all.

Just the Xtra is limited to 300. The impression I got is the Arcade version will be unlimited.
However, December 30th is the deadline to order for this batch.

Its true the other thread does have toxic comments. But it also has a lot of truth and wisdom that should not be ignored. As I said before, I think having both threads is a good thing.

FYI: Dutch Pinball is still in business.

Whatever your decision is, I'd say you're fortunate to have a choice right now.

Both of you guys live in Pittsburg. It's been a long while since I've shipped two games but they used to have a two for one shipping deal. (Michelle at Beltman)
Flip a coin to see who's home address to use and coordinate with Deeproot. Jersey Jack did this for me and friends when WOZ first came out.

Also some moving companies will discount if you pick up at their local warehouse.

Hey guys

Despite my pessimism in the other thread, I want to sincerely wish all of you the very best. There is still a long ways to go yet but if you guys benefit in the end, that's all that really matters.

Interesting to note that both threads have slowed as we enter an intriguing phase of this long drama. Will games be shipped on time and with what level of quality.

Wrb1977, I couldn't find any Mad Elf in my area but from you or anyone in this thread, I will gladly accept beer or drink recommendations that pair with a plate of crow.

Who is Saul Goodman?

That's all you needed to say and I would have given you an upvote had you limited your comment.

I realize its easy to get lost in the mix but many of us have posted several times how we want you guys to receive your games. And I personally believe that Deeproot is trying and you eventually will get them.

Round of beers on me for an invitation to play.

The guy who provoked you was down-voted and also moderated. His comment was out of line and I don't think anyone blames you for retaliating.

I think its unfortunate that many of you are cherry picking only the titillating posts and focusing on them. There have been some solid comments that seem to go ignored here. I mean I understand your frustrations and the sense you're being ganged up on. But you guys only seem able to justify Deeproot's actions instead of artfully defending them.

I'm amazed that not a single one of you critically analyzed the latest Deeproot update or the one before it. As I said before, some of the anger here I believe is misplaced.

And if you believe games finally shipping will be vindication, its not that simple. There are way too many layers to this saga still to come and past predictions from the sceptics have already proved true.

I did not. But that doesn't exclude me from commenting on an open forum.

Hey guys

I've got a fun little thread about Childhood toys and youthful memory's on Pinside. We have zero negativity there, no misunderstandings or arguments and its a lot of fun. Its a great way to lighten up the day.

Anybody and everybody is welcome there and I wanted to extend an invitation to each of you.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/what-were-your-favorite-childhood-toys

Wrb1977 and I disagree on Deeproot but I personally like and respect him very much and in my opinion he's a great representative for you guys.

Iceman has quit Pinside.

zice (resized).png

He's done this before when things don't go his way.
He'll be back. Guaranteed.

There's an interesting quote from Ben Heck in the other thread that speaks to this issue and supports Yelobird

My guess is it doesn't apply game to game but more likely from system to system. For example when Stern changed from Whitestar to the SAM board and then to the Spike system. Again that's just a guess and I don't really know.

There's been some invasion into the other thread too. You guys were whooping it up when Iceman was playing Kenny Rogers.

It's not just Kaneda, Carey Hardy, Ben Heck or the sceptics in the Deeproot thread. Check out the final 30 minutes of the LoserKid podcast.
https://soundcloud.com/loserkidpinballpodcast/ep-57-deeproot-to-the-future

I was addressing the comment that Kaneda is somehow responsible for other people's thoughts. He's not alone on Deeproot and I gave examples.

Also, Carey Hardy is a bona-fide witness whose opinion should be highly regarded. To dismiss him is short sighted.

Agree and he clearly states that.

What the hell are you talking about? He stated that the prototype had all red wiring on that day. He did not say, nor was it even implied that the production games would have all red wiring. I'm not sure where you got the idea he said anything like that and I will refer you back to that podcast to get your facts straight. I already did.

And if you guys don't understand why all red wire in a prototype machine is a red flag, then I'll save my breath. Even the two podcast hosts did a face plant when they heard that.

I have posted many times in these threads that I believe you guys will eventually get your machines.
But I have also stated that delivery of your games is not the end of this saga. Far from it and I'll bite my tongue going any further in this post which I'm certain many of you will appreciate.

I agree and I also took this as a positive sign when I heard it. It would be a mistake for RM to return to his arrogant personna but it would show confidence.

Hard to describe but Robert kind of implied that Kaneda was full of shit.

Nah, to each their own. I like Kaneda and never miss any of his shows or Facebook streams.
It was fun to know that Robert still has some dick swinging left in him.

Kaneda's offer is to reimburse your pre-order deposit minus 1 dollar and buy your spot. Personally I think it might be a little tongue in cheek but who knows.
Love him or hate him, he's the most entertaining guy I know of in pinball.

Believe as you wish but any collateral damage rests 100% with Deeproot.

I get your point on the Zidware people but must differ. This is their second, multi-year long roller coaster ride from hell. And they have had their "deposit" in years before the new people did. True, they will return to their original financial loss but the anxiety they have suffered has taken an emotional toll. Most had reconciled the loss long ago, only to have their hopes raised and then crushed again.

The people on Jpops very long, uncollectable bankruptcy list got over it years ago. And they've had a much easier time of it without Deeproot's involvement.

And you got caught red handed in the other thread posting a fake picture about Deeproot and lying about it.
Lets not pretend this is all one sided.

Your fake picture was a troll and not a joke, you only tried to play if off as one after you were caught. And you failed in trying to make that case.

And yes, I posted a lot of jokes in the other thread as you have illustrated. Guess what, I stand by all of them because they were directed at Deeproot and never at any of the pre-order guys. And none were posted in this thread. There's a significant difference if you will take a breath.

In fact, I even stood up on behalf of Wrb1977 and Fulltilt and another pre-order guy in the opposing thread. What have you done?

Also, if you want to see insults and personal attacks, here's a list of Iceman's comments from the other thread along with several of his moderation notices and punishments.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/twip-is-deeproot-the-next-misadventure-or-a-pinball-revolution/page/3?tu=iceman44

Again, don't play this off as one sided.

You failed to convince people that you were joking. - Happy to take your private message if you'd like to continue.

zzzzpinside (resized).png

I'm not telling anyone here what to do with their money. And I've been an advocate for the Zidware people since the very beginning.
But I'm processing the same information you guys are and I'm just baffled by our different conclusions, that's all.

Cosmic Carnival - 25 produced in 2019.

I think you're a decent man and someone I've grown to like and respect around Pinside.
But I take your point. Been there, done that myself.

Are these the things that customers should be contemplating and resorting to? Seriously?

Your response is completely unrelated to my comment.
Please explain how creeper parking lot photos and dumpster diving (illegal) is a mindset that customers should be forced into.

Here is the quote from Deeproot's last public communication posted on May 18th.

Agreed and Kaneda has been promoting the 19th for the Deeproot update on his show. I was just trying to show where PinballManiac40 and others got their information.

BTW. I will disagree with you about TWIP and only a few people going there.

It's too bad that all of us in both threads don't meet at the Pinball Hall of Fame and talk face to face. I'd bet misunderstandings and hard feelings would be cleared in short order and a lot of agreement would surface after ball one.

I enjoy expensive whisky if anyone wants to join me.

What does this mean and why so cryptic? Is Iceman the Deeproot spokesperson now?

Well, if that's Deeproot, all I can say is, it's about f@#*ing time.

Thanks. I now recognise Donald Pleasence on the cab. Pretty sure this is the picture they used too.

pasted_image 1 (resized).png

I know it's long and from an outsider but please read.

I was in on the original Zidware fiasco and I got tired of the Pinside abuse just as you guys must be. My solution was to take myself and my brothers off of Pinside and I formed a secret Facebook group. It's easy and quick to do, it's invited members only, and no one, absolutely no one can see or read your private thoughts and no one can discover the group accidently or not. Check Facebook for more information.

Whoever sets up the group is the administrator and they can appoint a co-administrator or two. You already know many of the people that are legitimate RAZA people in this thread and all they need to do is tell you their Facebook profile and the administrator sends them the confidential invitation from the FB group. The administrators can also kick people out.

Unknown people you will need to screen to make sure they are legitimate. **This is critical to keep out the riff raff**. Anybody I was unfamiliar with I had them scan and send me a copy of the Zidware contract before sending them an invite. I don't know what proof you guys might have but I'll leave that up to you. If someone is not on Facebook right now have them join. It's free and easy for anyone to do. And if they don't, too bad for them.

After you have your base group from this thread established, post a notice here for others to join and tell them there is a screening process. You guys have a few RAZA lukers I'm certain.

You have some really solid people in here and I would suggest Yelobird, Frankmac, Fulltilt, DS_Nadine, wrb1977, or Cheeks to be your administrators. There is a lot of really good people here and those are just off the top of my head. Sorry to those that I missed .

I'm telling you, this really works and you will have peace of mind while sending a big screw you to guys like me. The Big Lebowski people in the early years followed me with this idea and they had a blast returning to their Pinside thread now and then and taunting the boo-birds about their private sanctuary.

Also I would strongly suggest that you invite Robert Mueller to the group or an appointee from Deeproot. An appointee would be more likely.

One last thing I will tell you. Iceman will poo poo this idea to death because it's associated with me and he has a never ending vendetta against me. He's a smart guy and can be very convincing so I'll leave it up to you guys.

But I promise you, drain both threads until you're ready and you will have peace of mind and the doubters in this thread will just be talking to themselves. It will drive them crazy.

Also, prepare yourselves for a massive slow down as it wont match the pace of two Pinside threads. It will feel like nothing is happening... But there won't be any heat for you guys either and you can discuss things freely.

Oops. One last, last thing. Iceman will go along if everyone else does but be advised he will dominate the conversation and will try to take the group over. He has an insatiable need to be the center of attention and feel like he's captain of the ship.
Meh, maybe let him be a co-administrator if it makes him feel better. I won't care as I wont be there.

PS. He has me blocked so he might not see this.

Sincere best wishes guys. PM me if you have questions. You guys still have a long ways to go.

Thank you for accepting my apology PM earlier today.

As I already knew but can't seem to learn, the cross mixture of stimulants and depressants from Irish coffees' can really give me some weird focus. Sorry about the book and all of the extraneous detail.

Hey Pre-order guys. You see how my friends are reacting to my idea? LOL!

I sure hope nobody finds my high school year book.

(derp)

After 4 hours, I can't believe I'm the only one to upvote this comment.

Please stop.

At this point, it should be Deeproot to set this up for you guys. They have all of the customers names and emails to build a complete group and make it a hell of a lot easier. If you guys do it and Deeproot doesn't participate, your group will be fragmented and is gonna go dead real quick. And if Deeproot won't participate with their customers, that's a telling message in itself.

Keep in mind that Deeproot is limited to not talking about the legal case itself, but thats all. There is plenty of other things they can reveal especially to customers.

It's all good, Ben. Most of us know who originated that lie about you. It wasn't Marlboroman and you can't really blame him. But it does show how corrupt some people are and the lengths they will go to.
quote-the-destructive-power-of-a-lie-is-stronger-than-the-truth-henry-rollins-99-4-0465 (resized).jpg

Here's another one.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/no-more-speculation-planetary-pinball-to-remake-mb-bbb-tom-and-cc/page/21#post-6440274

Don't forget people. Mr. Bigshot has got all of you covered legally and at no cost to you.

My instincts tell me this thread is being abandoned and my guess is they set up a secret Facebook group or something similar.
If so, good for them and now they can strategize and commiserate without all of the noise of Pinside.

The concluding series of comments here reads as though Iceman was the last to go and he went screaming and kicking.
LOL
(He'll be back)

F@%k Deeproot for what they have done to these good people and our hobby.

Let's speak no further about it and just pretend it never happened. Ridiculous.

While I'm glad people are getting their money returned, I view the past year of the Deeproot emotional roller coaster as a big loss for you guys. Pinside skeptics were often shameful IMO but pre-order guys dished some of the ugliness right back. The emotional grind between anger and hope, leading to hunkered down silence the past several months had to have been draining on pre-order people.

Sorry about my misguided part but it all traces back to Deeproot to state the obvious. And Pinside gonna be Pinside.

So was the calculated wager on RAZA really worth it even with getting your money back? Something is better than nothing but for what Deeproot put you guys through, I have to wonder.

Bingo. And where is the apology from Iceman for his loud, arrogant and insulting behaviour. By far he was the biggest Deeproot cheerleader and the worst offender. He shows no sign of contrition and instead he's making excuses as if he knew all along.

I've made mistakes on Pinside of which I have apologised for both in public and in private. It's what adults do.

I blame spell checker.

^^^^^^^
Let's imagine how both threads would be flowing right now if RAZA's had been shipped.

Yelobird is a good guy imo.

But I'm downvoting the remainder of Iceman's trash post. Especially him diverting the likely blame away from Deeproot with the TWIP canceling and placing it elsewhere. What's his motivation for that?

No, not you at all. I was responding exclusively to Iceman and his reference to us being the cause of TWIP threats. That is Iceman being intellectually dishonest once again and growing his unscrupulous reputation.

I do think you're a good guy and I disagree with the derogatory comments towards you personally.
I have now edited my previous comment for clarity.

I'm a Prime member with free shipping so I'll take Bezos

JFC. Another Iceman endorsement.

We all hope that proves to be true but just like with RAZA, some of us see red flags and have now become skeptics about TBL. I guess the DP believers and the naive will now label us as the mob and haters for that.

I hope I'm wrong, but right now it's shaping up to be a Ponzi scheme that ultimately can not sustain itself.

My compliments to Jeffspinballpalace who said it best.

I wasn't aware you were doing podcasts. Got a link?

Look forward to it. Hopefully you covered Christmas and other off-topics to manipulate the RAZA thread into silence. (wink, wink)

The building was abandoned at least a month ago, probably longer.
Here's a link to pictures posted August 28th.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/twip-is-deeproot-the-next-misadventure-or-a-pinball-revolution/page/495#post-6466575

Another Iceman, woe is me, I'm taking my ball and going home, drain drama. - I'm sorry your date for prom night stood you up, Dougie.

Otis from Mayberry

That sucks about your Credit Card company. But I appreciate your candor in posting about it publicly. It's helpful for others to know and I suspect most people in the same situation will remain silent or pretend all is good.
You're a stand up guy, TP.

Not in this thread but he has posted on Pinside. And he didn't do very well.

https://pinside.com/pinball/community/pinsiders/deeproot/forum
zdeeproot (resized).png

I'm sorry to see that, it's my understanding these things take 30-40 days to resolve. What credit card did you use?