Quoted from Rarehero:

[quoted image]

Quoted from cpr9999:

Nothing wrong with people posting just keep on forum thread topic: RAZA pre-order...

Quoted from wrb1977:

Hey Nelson...hope all is well! Just to get you up to speed...the preorder DID happen back in December and even if you did want RAZA you can’t order one any longer as the preorder period ended on December 30, 2020. For your reference...
https://deeprootpinball.com/shop/machines
Btw...I’m just playing along assuming you are just trying to be funny in the wrong thread.

Quoted from clempo:

Seems pretty simple, a pre-order is an order for something that is not available yet. Am I missing something?

Quoted from Mbecker:

True, common term. I think family arcade was just having a bit of fun and stating the term itself is a bit non sensical - the way it’s used, not just here.

Does that mean your a pre-order.. er, an order that will be asking for a refund?

Quoted from Yelobird:

What boomer said!

Quoted from Kkoss24:

Thanks Dave ,I talked to a couple through PMs and explained I’m kinda a joker kidding around mostly just to get laughs .I’m a firm believer in laughter heals .We agreed most, or a very high percentage want DR to succeed no matter what’s posted .Everyone is very lucky to be into this hobby right now theres so much to choose from .

Quoted from kklank:

Can’t wait for the next update! I got a good feeling.
You can do it Robert Mueller!
Me and Yelobird will road trip down to Texas and bring some Portillos and brews for all your employees.

Quoted from kklank:

Uh.......yeah whatever you say. Lol.
I’ll feel plenty complete with Raza in my basement.

Quoted from Makakka:

I start to believe RM wishes to have a new set of RAZA buyers that are not worn out by broken promises/failed timelines so he welcomes any refund application. He stated he has a large preorder waiting list.

Quoted from Yelobird:

Ok again your reading a bit further into my simple statement all good. Raza (for me as not a historian) was announced end of December for market so under six months on my clock. Not off target by my standard for a start up but everyone has different expectations.

Quoted from Yelobird:

Yeah I remember that. Was a different kind of friendship back then compared to now.
[quoted image]

Quoted from kklank:

Was Ben and Jpop the first ones to come up with the “goodie bag”. Now Haggis, Stern and Spooky all do it but they call it “swag”. Lol.
And now it’s called a “membership”! I love it. Great way to raise cash.
They just need to be a little more creative with the swag bag.

Quoted from PinballManiac40:

… if they are working 10 hours a day.

Quoted from Yelobird:

I have absolutely NO concern with this game.

Quoted from Cheeks:

Fair enough...

And yet, last I checked, that other thread isn't full of sympathy and well-wishes. It's full of angst and hostility. Which was the basis of my point. Why? These people HAVE to have more constructive things to do.

This was no doubt caused by the ineptitude, dishonesty, and incompetence of those you mention. But the toxicity is heavily buoyed by the vitriol of the people posting on Pinside.

In general, I agree. I've never felt their misdeeds should be swept under the rug, but after literally thousands of posts, how exactly is all the venom spewing helping anything? I have not bothered to go in the other thread in many months, but what else can there possibly be to say anymore? And this is my point. I'm in the middle of this (I have money on the line) and I have WAY better things to do than rant to a bunch of people online about what isn't happening. How can this possibly be an enjoyable endeavor for anyone, especially those who aren't directly impacted? I'll never get it.
If this really was about people wanting to help out and provide "consequences" for what's gone down, then maybe set up a picket line outside deeproot headquarters, or put up a "JPOP is an asshat and stole my money" billboard down the block from them, or TP Robert's lawn. Anything would have to be more constructive than jerking each other off in an isolated thread on Pinside.

LOL. I don't believe this. What has there been, 2 or 3 virtually non-updates in 7 months? It's not like there's any new information coming out. It's not like we don't all know what probably *isn't* happening at deeproot. And yet that thread is on fire every day for 7 months? For reasons unclear to me, this topic seems to be self-sustaining. Honestly, if deeproot continued to give non-updates once every 3-6 months for the next 4 years, somehow that thread would continue to be on fire. It makes no sense. What can be said, has been said. And frankly, I agree with a lot of the cynicism and disbelief regarding what's gone down. I just posted recently that I don't understand the people on the other side in this thread that feel all rainbows and unicorns about things either. It's the constant and perpetual beating the negativity into the ground that feels so petty.

Hey, we agree on something.

Quoted from wrb1977:

It’s official...
The RAZA preorder thread is just an extension of the main deeproot thread (aka the sewer). It’s sad that something as simple as respecting the wishes of the OP as he stated in his very first post cannot be adhered to. Once again, and this time I’ll try to make it stand out...from the OP’s very first post as to the intent of this thread and who is welcome to participate...
“Starting a thread to allow people that have pre-ordered RAZA to discuss their purchase outside of the general Deeproot thread.”
“Starting a thread to allow people that have pre-ordered RAZA to discuss their purchase outside of the general Deeproot thread.”
“Starting a thread to allow people that have pre-ordered RAZA to discuss their purchase outside of the general Deeproot thread.”
Got it??? PEOPLE THAT HAVE PRE-ORDERED RAZA!!!
Got it??? PEOPLE THAT HAVE PRE-ORDERED RAZA!!!
Got it??? PEOPLE THAT HAVE PRE-ORDERED RAZA!!!
As in...and I’ll go slow for you...all you inconsiderate, disrespectful, shit stirring Pinsiders should not be here unless you...ready for it???...
PRE-ORDERED RAZA!!!
PRE-ORDERED RAZA!!!
PRE-ORDERED RAZA!!!
And finally, those that say you are looking out for us...
WE ALREADY PUT OUR HARD EARNED MONEY DOWN ON SOMETHING WE HOPE TO OWN CAUSE IT LOOKS COOL AND FUN!!!
So instead of making fun of us, thinking we are a bunch of idiots, and thinking we are clueless not seeing the red flags (cause guess what??? we are very aware of all of them!!!), why don’t you try being more supportive of your fellow pinheads and hope their gamble pays off, and not lose the money they already spent. We are all here cause we love pinball! Deeproot failing, which many of you hope happens, only results in your fellow pinball enthusiasts getting hurt and jobs being lost at deeproot. Show some class. Feel free to talk all the shit you want in the general deeproot thread...not here!
I’ll see those of you that preordered RAZA in the owner’s thread assuming they eventually ship. Any of you preorder guys feel free to PM me anytime to discuss this journey outside of the “two” sewers.

Quoted from DS_Nadine:

No, only new podcasts with old interviews with Robert, cut to be the ultimate troll episodes.

Quoted from Mr68:

I know it's long and from an outsider but please read.
I was in on the original Zidware fiasco and I got tired of the Pinside abuse just as you guys must be. My solution was to take myself and my brothers off of Pinside and I formed a secret Facebook group. It's easy and quick to do, it's invited members only, and no one, absolutely no one can see or read your private thoughts and no one can discover the group accidently or not. Check Facebook for more information.
Whoever sets up the group is the administrator and they can appoint a co-administrator or two. You already know many of the people that are legitimate RAZA people in this thread and all they need to do is tell you their Facebook profile and the administrator sends them the confidential invitation from the FB group. The administrators can also kick people out.
Unknown people you will need to screen to make sure they are legitimate. **This is critical to keep out the riff raff**. Anybody I was unfamiliar with I had them scan and send me a copy of the Zidware contract before sending them an invite. I don't know what proof you guys might have but I'll leave that up to you. If someone is not on Facebook right now have them join. It's free and easy for anyone to do. And if they don't, too bad for them.
After you have your base group from this thread established, post a notice here for others to join and tell them there is a screening process. You guys have a few RAZA lukers I'm certain.
You have some really solid people in here and I would suggest Yelobird, Frankmac, Fulltilt, DS_Nadine, wrb1977, or Cheeks to be your administrators. There is a lot of really good people here and those are just off the top of my head. Sorry to those that I missed .
I'm telling you, this really works and you will have peace of mind while sending a big screw you to guys like me. The Big Lebowski people in the early years followed me with this idea and they had a blast returning to their Pinside thread now and then and taunting the boo-birds about their private sanctuary.
Also I would strongly suggest that you invite Robert Mueller to the group or an appointee from Deeproot. An appointee would be more likely.
One last thing I will tell you. Iceman will poo poo this idea to death because it's associated with me and he has a never ending vendetta against me. He's a smart guy and can be very convincing so I'll leave it up to you guys.
But I promise you, drain both threads until you're ready and you will have peace of mind and the doubters in this thread will just be talking to themselves. It will drive them crazy.
Also, prepare yourselves for a massive slow down as it wont match the pace of two Pinside threads. It will feel like nothing is happening... But there won't be any heat for you guys either and you can discuss things freely.
Oops. One last, last thing. Iceman will go along if everyone else does but be advised he will dominate the conversation and will try to take the group over. He has an insatiable need to be the center of attention and feel like he's captain of the ship.
Meh, maybe let him be a co-administrator if it makes him feel better. I won't care as I wont be there.
PS. He has me blocked so he might not see this.
Sincere best wishes guys. PM me if you have questions. You guys still have a long ways to go.

Quoted from Mr68:

As I already knew but can't seem to learn, the cross mixture of stimulants and depressants from Irish coffees' can really give me some weird focus. Sorry about the book and all of the extraneous detail.

Quoted from Fulltilt:

$350 bucks a share?

Quoted from Stemmy:

Is something a foot at deeprip.

Quoted from transprtr4u:

Perhaps a major house cleaning is happening and hopefully a revamp of how things are done and allow the tons of cash invested to be recouped.
Out with the old and in with the new
Still hoping for a positive outcome for those who invested in Raza and games are delivered
Nothing yet has been set in stone .

Quoted from kklank:

Cmon RM!! Crank out a machine for me!!

Quoted from roffels:

Can you reveal what you meant when you said minds were going to be blown? In a good or bad way?

Quoted from kklank:

What’s mind blowing is you tracking “Icey’s” spending habits. Get a life.

Quoted from Yelobird:Didn’t buy 2 for myself not sure what you would do with spare games? Was there a benefit to paying in full? Likely just wanted to fuel the speculation pond lol. None the less my deposit(s) are still confirmed by Amex as (don’t worry about it) from my last call. I know you guys are concerned for us, we appreciate you.

Quoted from Yelobird:

Sweet on the QA content. Knew most in speaking to Robert but wasn't clear on the topper for the Xtra version. Pleased to hear that one with be more animated. Win. Have 2 Xtra versions paid in full betting against the opinion odds this will be a great game.

Quoted from Yelobird:

Do you Really think I would share Any of my actual purchase decisions with you or this group lololol. Yes I bought 16 games and paid double list value for Extra Led lights. Lol. You guys really need to stop worrying about every one else. Truly mind blowing how many hours of your life you have invested in this witch hunt. Go do something productive or spend time with family. I assure you all we will let you know how this plays out.

Quoted from Yelobird:

Did me misleading them effect their life, finance, or well being in ANY way?? lol WE are not part of your investigation nor your kids. I don't owe you guys anything truth or otherwise regarding this topic. If you sent me money for RAZA let me know and I will refund your payment with interest. You guys just need to see the world burn at all cost so you can dance around for some very odd reason. Imagine how much you could have accomplished with all your wasted DR time. This crusade or Jpop man crush is so bazar to be honest.

Quoted from Rarehero:

LOL, nah, Vonnie D was making something called "Pinball Gremlins"...it crashed and burned pretty quickly with a failed Kickstarter and one of the two guys involved went to jail. Not sure whatever happened to Vonnie D...but the other guy is now an anti-vax right-wing maniac trying to launch a social media platform now...because, of course.
The Cthulu thing was from something called "The Rebel Unit"...not sure what happened to that. Probably nothing. They haven't had an update since 2015.

Quoted from thechakapakuni:

Probably nothing to worry about. Normal companies ramping up to release their first product do so successfully by removing all their social media just prior to launch

Quoted from Roostking:

Dude stop. WTF would anybody buy dr, just to scrap everything. You don't make much sense man.
dr is not hiring you.

Quoted from Beechwood:

From what I've read, the following have been submitted às reasons to believe RAZA will still be made:
Hope
Secret insider emails
I already spent the money, so why not believe
Just give it time, pinball is easy
I, for one, am convinced.

Quoted from Beechwood:

I just read the old JPOP thread, and 7 years ago Iceman said they were going to make 125 RAZA's.
Hmmmm.... and DR officially said they "sold" 123 games 7 years later?
Very odd coincidence.

Quoted from Yelobird:

Pretty sure you posted that you quit not furloughed and were fully paid. At least thats what you posted.

Quoted from kklank:

Get the fuck out of here. Please list the evidence that RM committed theft, fraud and wire fraud. I’m waiting.........You talk like a child.

Quoted from wcbrandes:

Yea but to be fair Ben, your a nice douche that gets shit done!

Quoted from transprtr4u:

I stand corrected ... more plausible he thrives on other peoples misery!

Quoted from kklank:

I read this statement again and I still don’t understand why you would put out a statement like this that is so terrible.
We’ve all said stuff that is argumentative and been harsh to one another. In the end, I think everyone here on Pinside are terrific people that have passion for a hobby but this is a whole new level.

Quoted from Fulltilt:

So I'm out an extra $95 to Deeproot over what I had into Zidware.
It makes me feel even better to know how much that pleases you Ben.
What an insulting comment to people just trying to get their pinball machine. Many of us "bought into it" because it was the only option we had to hopefully receive a game following the Zidware debacle.

Quoted from cpr9999:

Your choice - but remember in life Karma's a bitch. Just sayin…

Quoted from hank527:

Such a great recap. Love it.
You need to add SEC filing as some still think Raza will get made

Quoted from bigehrl:

Let me be the one to change the tone from “We told you so” Vs. “How dare you wish us ill!”, to one of positivity and hope.. Because there’s a possibility, albeit a slim one, that all the folks who refused to give up hope, despite the obvious warning signs, will be compensated via a choice of either the Prime Rib, or the Chilean Sea Bass, while being invited to attend Roberts 4th wedding. Probably around 2038 (approximately the year after he’s released, depending on his defense team’s strategy and leniency of the presiding judge). So, there’s still a chance!

Quoted from cooked71:

You forgot:[quoted image]

Quoted from Haymaker:

I put in an order with Yelobird to help support him in these trying times

Quoted from frankmac:

Simple answers = Yes with doubts.
Reason for that is I had a very open direct line of communication with RM via dozens of email and phone conversations that always keep me hopeful with Deeproots progress. (No other options anyway)
The emails are very descriptive including the amount of games sold during the pre-order back in January. (#122)
We also discussed a few design options like limited color laser etched numbers on the apron of all machines so that the owners would have special machines. (Supposedly this etching machine is in the factory)
As far as I could tell the Deeproots team/employees were busy producing these pins and just a few key parts and shipping would begin. (Better then no news or bad news)
It really sounded like this was very close to happening.

Quoted from Yelobird:

Tough to answer. For Me, (not speaking for others!) I made my decision and it was as easy as that. The emotion roller coaster you speak of (that I see) was the 30,000 plus posts of almost obsession. So if anything I felt no sorrow or remorse as I will simply buy a different toy. As for the “ugliness” you speak of yes there were a few that went over the top and oddly felt the need to make it personal with buying individuals which really was unnecessary. I admit I didn’t need to respond to a few of those individuals defensively but it was just simply Unnecessary to make this so personal! I nor Any DR Raza buyer took anyone’s money and I won’t be the guy to inappropriately poke the BHZA, Raza, Etc buyers for making a mistake. It’s just pinball. Just going to move on to the next game and enjoy time with family and friends.

Quoted from iceman44:The mob tried to cancel TWIP and they may have been successful. Why?
You said it, “What in the ever living fuck”
I had a game coming from DR as a result of getting F Ed by Jpop in 2014.
Apologize for that? F that.
All the Debbie Downvoters can vote away. Like I said, have some balls and pick up the phone if it disturbs you that much.
Yelo? Way too nice of a guy and I commend him for basically just letting it go while he gets piled on by the mob

Quoted from cpr9999:

Here’s speculation- that now requires a tattoo![quoted image]

Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Precisely. Ice was conned into believing CGC was remaking it from the ASOA scam, and he told EVERYBODY this was happening right around the corner with intense conviction, including sending me several terse drunken PMs to this effect. Even convinced Kaneda, who made the famous "Ass tattoo" bet promising a Hilton buttcheek tat that I was making fun of and none of you hatin' buffoons apparently remember.
I was 100 percent correct that no different existing pinball company was going to be dumb enough to remake Aliens for all the reasons I stated. And of course they didn't; it was resurrected by remnants of the original cabal, and of course the game still seems to be a complete and total lemon based upon what I'm hearing, accompanied by the "who could see that coming" delays which will undoubtedly stretch into years for some lucky buyers.
So, long story short, kiss my Odin-tattooed ass! and I'll be happy to remind you I'm still the only person to actually collect on any of Ice's dumb bets, $100 worth of sweet, sweet Kentucky Bourbon, due to the fact that he was 100 percent wrong about his CGC Alien con and I was 100 percent correct.
Since some of you seem to have the memory of a goldfish, if you really want to relive the greatest hits of Pinside, here's the thread, which was originally titled "Is CGC Going to Manufacture Alien Pinball" Well, the answer of course, was no, and my posts have aged perfectly well:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/is-cgc-going-to-manufacture-alien-pinball

Quoted from iceman44:

Didn’t age well did it?

Quoted from iceman44:

I will say this of the entire experience.
It has made me want to sell pinball machines, which I’ve already started via a 3rd party, not buy any more in the future other than already being committed to Halloween.
So there you go, gonna whittle it down and figure out what’s left for me.
The whole thing is disgusting. You win. But thank you. I’m including the supposed friends that were afraid to step up and say something. The reality is…..it is what it is.
And I don’t think it’s very F ing positive either. Have a nice Labor Day and adios