This may be the funniest post I've ever read. Anywhere.

I will bet whatever is left of the very large bottle you are drinking that you are wrong.

Music pins always sell. That’s why they keep making them.

I always thought the crue sucked monkey ass so not for me, but there’s tons of other 40-60 year old dudes who would be happy to take my place in line.

Is there something in the water?

I hope not. Because we are drinking the same water.

I thought it might be from the moat!

I think it’s like the end of Gung Ho where management bravely assembles product by hand, inspiring their once-demoralized workforce into joining them, triumphantly pulling victory from the jaws of defeat and competing the task seconds before the deadline, saving not only the factory but in fact the entire town!!!

So you’re saying there’s a chance gif

He never intended to produce pinball machines. It was always a scam. If anything, the incompetence we saw at every turn - the horrible layout, the stupid malfunctioning pinbar, the pinpod that won’t fit through your door - all that stuff was probably More of a feature than a bug.

Ever seen “The Producers?”

The game, and everything about this project, was so awful it seemed like it was DESIGNED to fail.

Well, maybe it actually was!

Why are people “taking a chance” or “rolling the dice!” On whether or not a pinball machine gets made and they get anything besides a bad story for their money?

This shit has got to stop, and that attitude has got to be buried forever.

Buy pinball machines that exist, from companies that won’t steal your money. It’s so simple! And you have so many options in 2021, it’s not like 1999 when it was Striker Extreme or bust.

Stop lusting after fantasy when you can settle for reality. It’s a choice we all make many times a day about everything in life. It’s not as exciting, but it makes a lot more sense, and you’ll sleep better at night.

Well, the pre-orders still exist.

I sense a “why do you guys want RM in jail?! How is that gonna help us get out games!” Post a brewin’.

I remember that was the Predator “owner” sentiment for a while.

Well when are they planning to pinch this asshole?

I gotta think he’s a pretty big flight risk. Lock down the hydrofoils!!

You say Potato, I say Potaaato....

I don’t think that kind of shit happens where he’s going. He may want to brush up on his tennis game though.

Right. The implication is that somehow it was "worth the thrill."

We ALL took the same high-adrenaline thrill ride. Some of us just got on the ride for free while others spent thousands of dollars.

Yeah but the "needle-mover" is that his guy was "rich." "Rich" trumps logic for many, many people, which we've seen over and over again over the last few years.

The fact that he could be a fraud, that math still applies, that the rules of science still apply does not seem to enter into anybody's mind.

"This guy is rich!!! Of course this pinball company that makes ridiculous promises and can't possibly survive at the rate it's going mathmatically will be a success!!"

I don’t think anybody who ordered a RAZA this time around has anybody to blame but themselves. I mean most of the buyers were pretty clear they knew they were “rolling the dice” and strapping in for the ride. I don’t remember any evangelicals this time around trying to talk anyone else into taking the plunge.

And even if there were there were a chorus of “are you nuts?!?!” Ringing throughout the land when deep root finally started asking for money.

Yeah buy HUO save a couple hundred bucks these days. If you are lucky enough that the original owner didn’t pack the game with alligator clip garbage they expect you to pay for.

LMAO..."factory"...

The ease with which these pinball con men can lie to their marks borders on the sociopathic. We've seen it so many times now.

It really is such a thin line. It's so EASY to be a fuckin criminal and steal people's money. I've done ok in this hobby, but I can't help but wonder how much more wealth I would have acquired if I was just willing to lie to everybody, all of the time.

Buying a pinball machine isn’t supposed to be “a bet.”

I just don’t get this mentality. It promotes the continued creation of these unending pinball scams.

Glad you got your money back at least. I wonder if the elderly investors charged their $58 million via Amex.

Wonder if anybody who paid with a lowly Visa card was able to claw back their “lottery ticket.”

Yup.

Pinball was such an ancillary con here, and such a tiny drop in the bucket. I mean, it seriously seemed like Mueller was doing everything he could to DISCOURAGE people from buying into RAZA. The disastrous September launch (no Tex Mex buffet!), followed by the 20 day ordering window with the ridiculous NDA and waiver of refund in December. Plus, he tried to convince the remaining die hards to take refunds just a month or so ago. I don't think he really wanted to get any deeper into this pinball scam, he had bigger fish to fry and a bigger mess to clean up behind him. By this point, we are just a tiny footnote and afterthought.

Maybe I'm getting the timeline jumbled, but based on the Chernobyl photos we saw with the calendars and countdown clocks frozen in time, was the "RAZA FOMO" window in December happening when the Deep Root offices were already completely closed and no employees at all - whether "famous pinball designers" or lowly janitor - were still parking their cars in the lot?

Correct.

Fantasy is always more exciting than reality. But at least with reality you won’t get your money stolen and you’ll actually receive a game.

I think I remember saying this a few dozen times over the past few years...

I'm gonna go with "or am I." Jokes are supposed to be funny.

It’s pretty fucked up. They obviously have very little incentive to give games to the people they screwed 5 years ago so here we are.

Just another ongoing pinball scam. We can’t get enough, can we?

Why are you asking us?

Call your credit card company.

This whole "people getting their money back from the credit card company" thing is kind of a shocking epilogue to this tale, one I wish had happened a little earlier as I did a podcast last week recounting my take on this entire sordid odyssey.

Has there ever been a similar pinball scam where the pinball victims actually got their money back?

I wonder if Deep Root even notices. It just doesn't seem like scamming pinball people was ever the objective here. Seems like Mueller would have been happy to get you all your pins even if it meant stealing more money from old ladies.

Friend of mine does a gamer-related podcast, the JPop special ain’t out yet. I think it’s aimed at people who have never really heard anything about this so far. I’ll post a link when it’s out.

Yeah enough pinball scam refunds and I wonder if the credit card industry will sour on this whole pinball business.

It’s obviously high risk considering the staggering percentage of the business that is “like buying a lottery ticket!” Rather than just a consumer product.

Last I checked you can’t buy lottery tickets with a credit card.

Precisely. Ice was conned into believing CGC was remaking it from the ASOA scam, and he told EVERYBODY this was happening right around the corner with intense conviction, including sending me several terse drunken PMs to this effect. Even convinced Kaneda, who made the famous "Ass tattoo" bet to his legions of passionate followers, promising a Hilton buttcheek tat that I was making fun of and none of you hatin' buffoons apparently remember.

I was 100 percent correct that no different existing pinball company was going to be dumb enough to remake Aliens for all the reasons I stated. And of course they didn't; it was resurrected by remnants of the original cabal, and of course the game still seems to be a complete and total lemon based upon what I'm hearing, accompanied by the "who could see that coming" delays which will undoubtedly stretch into years for some lucky buyers.

So, long story short, kiss my Odin-tattooed ass! and I'll be happy to remind you I'm still the only person to actually collect on any of Ice's dumb bets, $100 worth of sweet, sweet Kentucky Bourbon, due to the fact that he was 100 percent wrong about his CGC Alien con and I was 100 percent correct.

Since some of you seem to have the memory of a goldfish, if you really want to relive the greatest hits of Pinside, here's the thread, which was originally titled "Is CGC Going to Manufacture Alien Pinball" Well, the answer of course, was no, and my posts have aged perfectly well:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/is-cgc-going-to-manufacture-alien-pinball

Wait, Ice is leaving again?

Well, Happy Labor Day I guess. We will miss him. Again.

Wow. What a Rollercoaster!

Anybody else get defeat snatched from the jaws of victory by their CC company?

THat's like lesson 504 out of this whole thing.

The "lesson learned" is don't buy games that don't exist from companies that have produced nothing but promises and hot air.

We are still playing this dumb game? Really?

A couple cobbled together prototypes does not mean a game exists, this has been proven time and time again in pinball scam after pinball scam. This was pointed out by countless people countless times during this con.

You sent these losers money and defended them for years with extreme conviction without seeing ANY evidence they could mass produce and ship a pinball machine. That was a mistake. Will you do it again sometime someone wows you with a flashy half-working prototype and 5 years worth of bullshit?

Comparing the RAZA scam to Stern "pre-order" is a pathetic rationalization and just makes it look like you haven't learned anything and are eager to get ripped off again. If you really can't understand the difference between what Deep Root was doing and what Stern does several times a year I'm hoping someone else has the keys to your bank account.

I’ll be producing one in the back alley of my apartment building. Hell’s Kitchen Pinball’s The Goonies. Shipping Q2 2022.

Send money now!